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Why 60 seconds of margin for DS STRIKE?
Devs, If you really made an improvement to the DS so that it became an anti-tunnel benefit ... ... It seems to me that 60 seconds is too long which, although not "focus" on the survivor (in that time many actions are performed, and it could be the case that you "eat" the perk.
I hope they check the perk.
Comments
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I don’t even understand what you typed
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To summarize, it seems to me a lot of 60 seconds, they should lower it to 30 seconds
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Yeah, no. It's fine where it is, timer-wise.
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@keenko He wants DS reworked, because it keeps triggering despite having already downed/hooked another survivor.
@Paladin_Goo not really. It can punish a killer simply because of a survivor being an idiot. It might be better for it to have a 15 second timer that doesn't count down in the TR of the killer.
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No. Really, 60 seconds is fine. The idea the other fellow had about making it so if someone else gets hooked during that 60 seconds the DS goes away, that could be good. But downing the timer...to 15? Are you nuts? That would just make it worthless. That's like survivors asking for a 10 second stun when they hit DS. Killers would treat that the same way they do borrowed time. It'd be dribbling all over again. I get that DS is annoying, but stop trying to nerf it into the ground. It's in a good, much less annoying place.
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You realize perks aren’t mad to only activate when the killer isn’t playing fair? The perk is fine.
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Sometimes, you'll just have to deal with it. DS is great where it is, I play Killer most of the time. It's boring to know everything a Survivor is gonna do. Tbh, I think most just don't like the perk no matter how many times it's been nerfed, but it's intended design is to let a Survivor escape from a killers grasp and sometimes you'll just have to deal with, unfortunately sorry to say it....
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@Paladin_Goo no, this is inline with it's antitunnelling. As I said, if you're in the terror radius of the killer the timer pauses. If you are being tunnelled, then DS will be able to trigger. If you aren't, then you don't need a 60 second timer. It doesn't need a hard timer, it just needs better tunnelling detection, which the TR is perfect for using.
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DS has been through enough changes. The only thing I would like to see happen at this point is reduce the duration of the stun to 3.5 or 4 seconds to compensate for the change to Enduring. Once that is done, leave it alone.
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Right, I think I still have problems in my opinion. I can give you a case, there are 2 survivors with the DS, you make the first hook the first survivor (LEGAL GAME), the surviving companion lowers his DS companion, you go to the hook, you knock down the survivor WHOLE 100% life and ... now for X reason you are the same as you did a while ago ... it has not happened 60 seconds, in that sense it is outrageous, even if you leave it and do other actions and look for others, it can be the case that harm the DS at the end of 60 seconds.
and of course, another case may be given that the survivors are idiots ... and you have to deal with the DS strike.
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60 sec is fine as is, too many baby killers
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It's important that the perk stays active long enough to prevent two things:
- So they killer can't just wait out the stun.
- So the person using the perk isn't punished for not immediately going down.
The first one should be pretty self explanatory. If it's, say, 15 seconds, I could easily just wait 15 seconds after they were unhooked, pick them up, and rehook them. If it's a whole minute, sure, I could stand on top of them, wait it out, then pick them up and rehook them. But I would lose a lot of time in the process, and that gives the rest of the survivors a whole minute uncontested to do generators.
Or if it's 30 seconds, even, the survivor would have to try to go down in time, which would make it painfully obvious to the killer that they're using DS.
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To be fair, I just take the DS, gives me more BP and stacks for token perks.
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How is 30 seconds anti tunnel? 30 seconds doesn't hurt that much for the killer to slug and wait next to it to hook again.
A killer who tunnels and stays next to slug should take a huge risk of gens popping left and right or mates picking him up. That's how DS is supposed to work and that's actually how DS is currently working. COMPLETELY FINE. The only people who want DS nerfed are those who tunnel 24/7 and can't win without that. I noticed that in some streams of some killer mains who suck at this game. They complain all day about DS cuz they can only tunnel.
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Stop tunneling and it won't be a problem. For me this perk is useless because if killer tunnels me I can loop him for these 60 seconds easy so yeah. Cry more about this perk xD
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@Peanits what about my idea of a reduced timer with a Terror radius blocker on it, so it doesn't tick down like deep wound or the RBTs. If you escape the killer's TR, it continues counting down. Of course, Myers and Ghostface can hardcounter this, so perhaps make it so it's a set distance from the killer. Low timer = can't be used for detection, while the blocker means that unless the killer decides to follow you from really far away and just stay at the edge the perk does not lose it's usefulness unless it's already outlived it.
*Crosses fingers for acception of idea*
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But what about cases when you don't tunnel anyone as killer but once someone gets unhooked they get their DS, they go for the save knowing that if killer downs them and picks them up not thinking about all previous hooks they can escape for free. Sometimes you can't even slug them since many survivors jump into locker so that you are forced to stand there stare at the locker unable to open it for that minute unless you want to get stabbed.
Maybe giving it condition so that DS activates when killer is within 40m range and prolong its timer to 1 minute 30s ? @Peanits
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@Kebek Here is the thing with your scenario. Even if you leave that potential DS person on the ground, you have gained pressure and it cost you zero chase time to do so. That person lying on the ground isn’t on gens, and most likely will need someone on a gen to come pick them up in time. Issue with old DS was the CHASE time spent on that person. They could run around, take two hits, then extend the chase with DS if you were unable to dribble. If someone runs in your face and you down them, this is entirely different. If you want to hook them, you take that chance. Leave them slugged, you still come out ahead.
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I believe that disabling the perk after the Killer hooks another Survivor would be a fair nerf, so long as the perk still reactivates upon subsequent unhooks whilst unused.
Killers would then no longer just be going about their business, hook someone else, happen to down that first person and then get stunned. But if you at any point tunnel, watch out.
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Wraith would avoid DS also if it’s terror radius, just by chasing cloaked until your reduced timer expires. That would suck as Wraiths are notorious for cloaked camping and tunneling off hook, so it’s one of the the killers you definitely need it to work against. They can already get around BT.
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People use DS as an anti-tunnel perk?
I see DS as a free protected minute i can sit on the gen without being harmed by the killer. Get unhooked and instantly run to a gen. If the killer comes, i have a guaranteed escape.
Now with the Enduring nerf, it can't even be soft countered and ensures my safety.
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@AetherBytes Red rank tunnelers come back from distance. See Nurse, Spirit and Billy. So, 1 blink and you're down again. Right now this is being done a lot in the red ranks to counter borrowed time. Add DS to the same category and you counter 2 anti tunneling perks at once and make both of them completely useless. I don't see how a "distance nerf" can possibly work and I don't understand how you'll be able justify the benefits of a DS nerf to the disadvantages and possibilities of abusing the mechanics. You still can bring a Mori if you want to kill a survivor in less than 60 seconds after he was unhooked. But what can a survivor do, that tries to live longer than 60 seconds when being tunneled after the unhook? Can a survivor abuse DS? Yes. So make it useless for everyone else? A killer has options to avoid DS: Slugging, Mori, going after other survivors. Be creative. But what can a survivor do when he's being tunneled and DS doesn't trigger, let's say because of a distance nerf? And distance is in no means a reliable factor that proves a killer isn't tunneling. It's easier to catch an injured survivor close to a hook as most pallets around it were already used. That's why he got downed there in the first place. But let's be honest here: there are 4 survivors in the game and 7 generators. There is other stuff you can do. Just avoid picking up people 60 seconds after they were unhooked. And if you still don't want people to live 60 seconds after the unhook, bring a Mori. Tunneling is a commonly used strategy. Don't add mechanics to make it even more popular than it already is. DS has to hurt the killer. If it doesn't, it is useless. It is designed to motivate killers to go after other survivors. I understand your idea and motivation behind it, but you still have options as a killer to avoid DS. As survivor DS is the only option to counter tunneling. The only one.
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Even the 60s doesnt ensure any anti-tunneling. What about being downed after chased 61 seconds? Would you not consider this being tunneled? Like a said often enough, DS isnt a decent anti-tunnel perk. Its just a delay perk, with only good work for escaping in endgame.
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Like I don't really mind since I consider new DS kinda fair. What I don't like about it is those stupid locker plays when you can't even slug, especially when it's done by someone I didn't even tunnel in the first place.
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DS. Is. Fine.
It's not just an anti-tunnel perk and can be used offensively by baiting a grab or pretending to mess up so they'll pick you up. If there's an obsession in the game, PLAY AROUND IT. Don't tunnel, don't camp, and slug them if they're getting frisky.
Play around and adapt instead of begging for nerfs from a very manageable perk.
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Why didn't you nerf the recovery time back since enduring is NERFED
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This. DS is as broken and unhealthy for the game as ever.
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I think it should deactivated (but not count as its 1-time use) if:
- DS Survivor unhooks another survivor
- DS Survivor completes or helps to complete a generator
- The killer hooks one of the 3 other survivors who don't have DS active
This way, the perk is more risk and reward. I'd be even willing to let the timer go up to 80 seconds.
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Yes that would make it more of antitunneling perk but survivors would rather keep current version which is more of a 1 minute immunity perk then anything else. Like what survivor is getting tunneled when he has time to save/repair gens or killer has even enough time to hook someone else. So much for tunneling.
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It should simply be 15 seconds, where the counter only counts down when the killer is more than 32m away. Not tied to the TR, a flat 32m for all killers.
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Ds is one of the most frustrating perks, if u get idiot survivor who get unhook runs away but some how run into you, guess what u have to leave them on ground because of (there mistake punishing the killer) why because survivor privilege.
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@tehshadowman33 so you don't think the mechanics can be abused with your suggestions? And think about WHAT you're suggesting. Your ideas will change the meta. Players will adept to stay safe most of the time.
To 1: Punishment for altruism? DS players will stop unhooking after they were unhooked to stay protected.
To 2: Punishment for repairing? DS players will not repair anymore after they were unhooked to stay protected.
To 3: Punishment for unhooking with camping killers? So camping killers get 2 for the price of 1 now. Countering the whole idea of the perk.
It's really not complicated to avoid DS. For me this whole discussion sounds like an excuse not needing to find a workaround as killer. Tunneling is easy. DS helps to counter it. Yes, DS can be abused by survivors. But there are still several ways to avoid DS. You are capable of avoiding! That's the most important factor here. You are not forced to pick a survivor up after he was downed in that 60 seconds timeframe. Starting to punish people for using DS sounds very radical to me and makes no sense whatsoever. You can still counter abusive DS behaviour. You can!
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DS is fine. If you lack the guts to just eat the DS, then your penalty for tunneling is waiting 60 seconds.
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Simply don't tunnel the unhooked and if you come across them slug them its really not that hard. Last time I got ds was as a billy when I went against some extra altruistic survivors and that was over 2 weeks ago.
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DS is fine. Go after the person who unhooked and you won't get stunned by it.
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Screw it. If there's an obsession at play, just actively tunnel everyone to take it away as early as possible and slap NOED to every non-chainsaw killer.
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The Dokta approves this message.
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It’s because DS always seems to need something stupid about it. First it was the perk giving a free escape to everybody, then it was giving one Survivor an instant free escape (the other three could get it later on), and now it’s that you can get hit with it even if you don’t tunnel. The perk needs to either deactivate when a Survivor interacts with something or after the Killer hooks another Survivor.
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Yeah sure, let set DS to 30 sec, so the killer count to 30 then down the tunneled surv after he get unhooked...
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I just wish it wasn't a 5 second stun. With Enduring nerfed into oblivion for no reason, 5 seconds is way too long a time. I would put it too 3 seconds since it can't be lowered.
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Exactly! That’s what’s happening with 60 seconds, too right now. You can see enough streamers setting their timer after the unhook to 60 seconds. At least 60 seconds will hurt tunnelers. 2,25 gens can be repaired in that time without toolbox, if everyone works alone. So, 2,25 gens is the price you have to pay for the tunnel. But the arguments that are being made here are mostly one-sided. Balancing an asymmetrical game isn’t easy. You need to take a look at both sides. And from the killers perspective you can avoid DS. It is possible. Go after another survivor. As a survivor though you can’t avoid being tunneled, if the killer wants you. Want a 1vs1? Pay for it. Implementing mechanics, that can be abused do not support the original idea / the rework of the perk. There is not 1 single scenario that outweighs the benefits a tunneled survivor will have with this perk. We all can agree on, that the last DS was heavy to carry. A free escape after the first down. The rework though works exactly as it was intended to work: to make tunneling more difficult.
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