Anyone else feel the DS stun is too long?
Since the Enduring nerf, DS has been such a bane. I get that you shouldn't tunnel incase they have it, but sometimes you don't even realise it's the same person since they could just insta heal then rush you when you have someone. it was buffed because Enduring made the old stun into a 1 second stun, but since Enduring no longer affects DS, it should revert back too the old stun timer, or make it into a 3 second stun like Head On. Or, better yet, let Enduring cut all stuns in half.
Comments
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All stuns are too long. 5 seconds is overkill. I agree with a max of 3 seconds.
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They're likely going to Nerf it down abit. They said with the enduring change, that a big reason they were changing it was cuz it made balancing stuns a headache since they always had to keep enduring in mind. Without that extra factor in place, they can find a nice sweet spot.
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I think it is fine.
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I'd be fine with it being 5 seconds if DS reset upon hooking another Survivor. That way, it only punishes real tunneling and doesn't allow the Survivor with it to make stupid plays, such as bum-rushing the hook since they know they have an instant escape.
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You literally can slug for 60s. If ds is possibility that means it was reckless save (99% of times), just get another person. Make your choice has the same timer as ds. Just saying.
Edit: I agree that enduring is a joke now.
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I think current DS is fine others may disagree my opinion is 5 seconds is pretty fair it use to be 3 seconds with enduring and it was pretty bad honestly.
Enduring made it seem like 1 second but it started once the survivor hit the skill check you had 1 second getting off the sholder 2 falling and the last second was the killer coming out of stun.
Also 3 second stun made the perk garbage because it didnt allow the survivor to gain any distance.
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I think it should deactivate if the survivor starts working on a gen or doing a totem or something. It's not tunneling if I'm chasing survivors off the objective.
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It's not actually a full giving 5 seconds to the survivor either, the animation of jumping off the killer's shoulder and landing on the ground takes some time off that already. Anything less would make the perk useless as a deterrent to tunnelers. How much did enduring take off the stun before they made it not affect DS? In version 2.6.0 stun time was 3 seconds - so they already tried that number.
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Why there is no penalty for not being obsession while using this perk?
Why there is no penalty for being obsession?
Why this perk is changing obsession after use which can completely ruing killer's strategy?
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i don't think it is too long but then again i don't tunnel or play red ranks.
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1: 3 seconds was bad because Enduring countered it hardcore, which is why it was buffed too 5 seconds, but since Enduring doesn't affect it, I feel the buff should be reverted.
2: If I'm playing nurse, the stun won't matter anyway since I'm 1-2 blinks away from starting the chase again. I was Nurse on Lery's and got hit with DS, and I still caught up too them with 1 blink and downed them again. You can't really balance everything around 1 killer since no other killer can go through walls yet (looking at you freddy rework).
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I still think 3 seconds is not the option if they were to change it to 3 seconds the slugging the timer needs to go.
as you said you cant balance everything around 1 killer but it was not just nurse who completely man handled people with DS it was every killer 3 seconds is just not enough time to get distance or even away from the killer its really not.
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Balanced or not i find it disgusting that survivors are allowed to have counter perks while killers not.
Examples: bbq distortion, ds enduring
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Sooo? we are just gonna leave out Adrenaline and NOED right? which NOED is a direct counter to Adrenaline???
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No they have disgusting tracking and wall hack perks instead.
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Nurses Calling,Bitter Murmur,BBQ,Iron Maidian,Whispers,BloodHound,Rancor,Predator,Discordance ,Infectious Fright
Seriously? Really.
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No, if there's an obsession just assume everyone has it and play accordingly. Slug the unhooked and chase the unhooker, let them go and pick up the slug if they want them back in the game and continue as usual, it's still pressure and chase + slug is a very strong situation in itself. 90% of the time people trying to use the immunity time on purpose make it so obvious that a braindead monkey could see it coming.
And legitimately crying about it because "tunneling shouldn't be punished because it's a tactic" is just insanely entitled and pathetic, just throwing that one out there.
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You can reliably prevent NOED from activating. You can't do the same with Adrenaline.
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@Jesp while I would agree with you if the perk JUST prevented ppl from tunneling off the hook, too many ppl are using it to jump on gens, totems, unhooks, ect, without worrying about consequences. You can even avoid being slugged by just jumping in a locker after the killer chases you off a gen, totem, ect.
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Yeah it's really long and its duration buff should be reverted since Enduring got nerfed to not affect perk stuns.
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i think it's fine considering it's completely avoidable
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So is NOED but survivors still complain. Difference is that NOED never got buffed, only nerfed (qol changes don't count).
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that's a whole different argument, how u avoid ds and how u avoid noed are 2 different ball games
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Agreed. I want Dead By Daylight to be free of this notion of "100% safe unhooks". Borrowed time shouldn't stack with other second chance perks whatsoever, without some SERIOUS work done on survivor's part. You can still get that 100% safe unhook, but you'll need a 3 stack MoM, which is quite difficult, but if you pull it off you get your free escape at endgame.
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soon it will get nerf to 3s cuz 5s its alot and without any counter with it ppl could just be soo toxic that you can even imagen maybe leave it 5s stun duration and the cooldown its 15s if the killer its tunneling you that timer will stop
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Am I the only person that feels like enduring is actually WORSE on stun?
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I don't mind the 5 second stun, It's a bit much sure but the real issue I have with the perk is that it gives you a whole minute of immunity after the unhook, In the end game when gates are open if you get a DS off you're basically out the gate for free.
DS should really deactivate if the killer hooks another survivor.
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I think 4 seconds would be the sweet spot for this perk.
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A: chill your tits, this is a discussion, not an argument.
B: I'm not saying tunneling should be ok, but when people are using a perk for other then it's intended purpose, it needs too be looked at imo. 5 seconds is too long a stun time for most killers, the timer should be reduced since it was buffed too count for enduring, but since Enduring no longer effects it, it should be reverted back.
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Yea, the math alone makes it worse. Why would 50% be more effective then 75%?
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You can easily get too another loop/jungle gym in 3 seconds on any killers who aren't Spirit, Nurse, and maybe Billy depending on the map. I don't see any reason too keep 5 seconds when it's just too strong right now.
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Considering the last time I actually got hit by a decisive strike was when the change released... Not really
It only works if you go after the guy they just saved up to 60 seconds after, slug and go after someone else.
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NOED is just 10x times stronger than DS.
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No one:
Killer mains: Nerf DS
Myself is a killer main too. I dont have anything wrong with DS though. Dont tunnel and i think you'll be fine
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@BunnyTheHutt Because a reduction in time is not the same as an increase in recovery speed.
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I think that they should change it to the timing it had before, 4 seconds but the survivor regains control instantly.
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What am I supposed to do, LET them unhook their friend?
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The perk was buffed explicitly because of its interaction with Enduring. Enduring was then changed so it only affected pallet stuns, yet DS remained the same. Does that seem fair to you?
Imagine if NOED was buffed to give the killer a massive speed boost to counter Adrenaline. Then imagine that Adrenaline was nerfed to no longer give the speed boost, yet NOED remained the same. Do you think that's fair? Do you think it makes any goddamned sense?
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Nah it's fine.
And during the last Q&A stream they said they're currently not looking to change DS.
I only get hit by it like 1 out of 10 games as killer. It's highly preventable and the chance you as survivor is gonna play with 3 perks by using it is pretty high.
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This scenario is irrelevant because NOED already counters Adrenaline as much as a perk should counter another perk.
If anything NOED has no business giving a speed boost because it's primary effect is already strong af. But I'm not the one here asking for nerfs for things that shouldn't be nerfed so w/e
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Lol I think you meant 10 times weaker. Even now DS is far superior to NOED. If all survivors run it, it can waste up to 4 minutes of killer's time or give survivors 4 bonus health states and lose all killer's momentum. Unlike NOED these DSes can't be disabled by some simple action and you don't even know if all 4 surviovrs are running them so you can be wasting time trying to avoid it on someone who doesn't even have it. And if you don't tunnel even a little bit against good survivors and not punishing their mistakes for doing unsafe saves then you're giving them ton of time to do gens without worrying of someone dying. That's how you lose games as killer by not killing anyone while all gens pop.
Noed on the other hand can maximally give 1 down against good survivors and against great ones it doesn't even activate. Saying you don't have time to clease totems is very lame excuse since it's surviovrs who set the pace of the game, killer just reacts to it until they make mistake and get hooked. Yes noed can win games against noobs who just mindlessly run into killer with noed but that's their fault in all acpects.
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The scenario is an example to show why people are asking for DS to be nerfed. Address the argument instead of nitpicking those details.
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That's not how devs decide if something should be nerfed or not.
They analyzed the current iteration for DS and reached the conclusion that it doesn't need nerfs. As simple as that.
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It's funny, it was also fine at 3 seconds without Enduring, so how come at 5 seconds - also without Enduring - it's no different? Sounds like a poor excuse to ignore common sense to me.
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2 things:
- DS can be worked around
- Against great survivors at high ranks NOED is almost guaranteed to activate because the optimal play is to ALWAYS be on generators. Against the best of the best NOED pretty much guarantees you one down late game. Is it worth it? I don't think so, which is why I don't use it. But saying it doesn't activate is innacurate. If it doesn't, you just had one extra minute worth of game progress to make plays while they were doing totems.
Edit: obviously DS is better than NOED because NOED is a bad perk. Every single meta survivor or killer perk is better than NOED.
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Hey, your point was never if it was fine or not, you were arguing that it should be reverted because of the Enduring changes. I merely pointed out that this is not the way the devs determine balance changes.
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The game didn't change in any significant way for these supposed stats to have changed to the point that increasing DS's stun by 2 seconds (66%) is balanced.
If DS was balanced at 3 seconds without Enduring, it's not balanced at 5 seconds without Enduring. This is basic logic.
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dont tunnel if you dont like it , most of the time you shouldnt even be near the hook
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I think the criteria for using DS is too broad.
60 seconds is way too long. That's enough time for me to down someone else after the DS user is unhooked and then go back and down the person with DS if I'm on Spirit. That's not tunneling, so why is the survivor being rewarded for getting caught twice in one minute? Why is the killer being punished for their efficiency in ending 2 chases on 2 different survivors in a 1 minute span?
What is tunneling? I'm talking actual tunneling, not hitting a survivor more than twice at any point in the same trial. I'd say it's downing and hooking an injured survivor before they've even had a chance to leave the hook (if they self-care in a stupid spot or heal on hook, that's on them). If you're at full health and get downed immediately again, the killer shouldn't be punished for your lack of chase skill or poor positioning and map awareness.
I'd change it to 30 seconds and only works when downed from the injured state, or ya know, when you're actually tunneled.
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I'm personally of the opinion that being an anti tunnel perk should guarantee you get to another loop when it connects. So 5 seconds is fine and 3 seconds isn't always fine depending on the map.
If you're gonna nerf it, there are plenty of good ways to go about it, like a shorter timer that stops during a chase or deactivating when you hook someone else. That way it's still an anti tunnel perk but it doesn't punish players who don't tunnel.
I just don't think a 3 second stun for an anti tunnel perk is good design, since it'd be nothing but a minor annoyance in certain maps.
EDIT: keep in mind this iteration of DS is relatively new and they hardly had time to "balance" it before it got increased to 5 seconds so I don't think they were ever fully satisfied with where the perk was.
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