PGTW > Ruin now?
For those unaware, Pop Goes The Weasel got a buff in the last patch. All tiers now do 25% regression (where only tier 3 did before) and you have 40/50/60 seconds to use it (where tier 3 was 30 seconds before).
I've had games as killer at purple/red ranks where my Ruin gets found super quick but I'm still able to control the gens with PGTW. It's just a matter of knowing which gens you need to kick. BBQ is best for this, following by Thrilling Tremors and Discordance. Surveillance can also work well. But you have so much time and 25% is a LOT of regression. If you can snowball 2 hooks near a running gen, that's 50% regression (because you know a survivor is going to tap it).
This is on Ghostface too, a killer with no movement ability. PGTW is going to OP on Billy, Spirit and Nurse.
Comments
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Still would not say it is better than Ruin, just because of how much time you have to spend reaching the generators and kicking them (which often gives survivors headstarts on chases). It is however much more consistent at least.
I think it's a great perk now though, really solid.
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Yea but as long as survivors didn't do the perfect first 2 gens to split the map, when you have the last 4-5 gens near each other it becomes REALLY hard to work through PGTW.
Ruin can be taken out of the game AND good survivors can just work through it. PGTW just takes off 25%, that is huge. If they have toolboxes and you do that like 3 times to a gen they keep fixing, that's their whole toolbox sans Commodious.
I've had games where my Ruin goes down right away and PGTW pretty much carries me to victory. I just p2'd GF and I only have PGTW 1 and it's still a really strong perk.
OC is easy if you can do skill checks. Corrupt is pointless with Ruin. Plus if you have survivors running around at the start they might find the totem sooner. You need some tracking or good survivors will walk all over you.
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Only on killers with high map pressure and fast downs I.e the killers who already don't need Ruin anyway
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The tail of ruin and slowing the game down.
Yes PGTW is a great perk now, but it still eats up your time account. You need to hook strategically and have some mobility.
Full genprotector builds are fun, but most killers rely on Enduring and Spirit Fury to shorten loops.
Hex Totems in general are in of a buff. Maybe make it so, that the totem starts to spawn 5-20s into the game and out of sight of the survivors. So they really have to search for them.
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PGTW is definitely interesting now. A lot of time i used to waste it unless while going from an hook to a generator i didn't find any survivor...
Now it is possible to even delay it and start another chase before actually going and using it on a gen! 😁
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The only real downside to PGTW is you need to know which generator has a lot of progress prior to the hook or luck out in running into one.
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I feel like PGTW really shines when you have generators close to each other. So in the late game, it does become a bit more potent.
Over all though, I still think Ruin is superior.
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Why not BOTH
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I think it's a rock solid perk, but not required. I think it's a strong "strategy" perk, where you can use it for a particular build strategy. Personally, I prefer going around Make Your Choice, or Bamboozle/Spirit Fury (killer pending).
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I've been using it in place of ruin because I'm sick of using the aforementioned.
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Hex: Ruin and Pop Goes The Weasel can't be directly compared to each other because they don't serve he same purpose.
Ruin give you a global slowdown on all generators and potentially a distraction for survivors if they don't just happen to spawn right next to the totem complelty in the open. Yes good survivors can power trough the Hex, but hitting the great skillcheks require a bit of concentration so they might not pay as much attention to their suroundings.
PGTW help you get a single generator under control provided that you can actually hook a survivor. All the buff did was make it more reliable. It does not slow down the game at all. It just help you stall a bit better. Its an OK perk but it simply does not have the same scope as Ruin.
Personally I tend to prefer Overcharge over PGTW. I don't have to hook a survivor to get extra benefit from kicking a generator, and its a great defense against swarming tactics and gen tapping. Each time they blow the skillcheck its 10% base regression +5% from the perk. And you can re-apply Overcharge immediatly.
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The perks are only barely comparable.
While PGTW is likely to buy you more time in terms of the raw numbers (so long as you get at least 5 hooks), math isn't everything here.
Ruins weakness of being a hex totem is also it's greatest strength. While if it goes down quickly you will be down a perk, if it stays up survivors will often spend quite a bit of time looking for it. Far longer than the slowdown from the perk itself causes.
On the other hand, PGTW has no power through option. So long as you use it right it's just a flat 20 second stall per hook, which is powerful in it's own right.
I say take PGTW if you are confident with your Killer and Ruin if you are either still new with the Killer or if you aren't going against red ranks.
That or just take both. They are great perks for a reason and their effects stack nicely.
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I had a daily ritual for Spirit yesterday and I've not put many points in her. She literally has no Ruin and only Rank 1 of PGTW. So, that's what I used and I'll be honest, I was surprised at just how good even Rank 1 of that perk is. It definitely prevented the gens from getting done and only the final survivor escaped through the hatch (mainly because I don't bother slugging. I figure if they find the hatch before me and/or get through an exit gate, then gg).
I had a blast with her, playing with lower ranked perks and PGTW definitely pulled it's weight at slowing the game down.
Now, better than Ruin? Not sure I would go that far. As good as? Still not sure I would go that far. But it's close and may even be as good as. It's a fine alternative and/or addition to Ruin.
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Just to be clear, a successful pop takes off 20 seconds of a gen’s progression maximum- per hook.
Even though that is a large amount of time, you would need to pgtw multiple times in a game on gens that have at least 20 seconds of progression to begin with to even come close to matching ruin which has multiple survivors losing 7 seconds on good skillchecks/ spending time finding the totem.
Against survivors who don’t miss greats, though? I mean ruin prevents the 2% bonus speed from greats but that might as well be nothing. The real question is: against good survivors do you even have time to kick generators?
I’d say ruin is still better.
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Overcharge with PGTW works really well
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Ruin helps the killer in the beginning of the match to "get a foot in the door". PGTW can't do that.
If it comes to the scenario "1st hook and 3 gens done", PGTW won't help the killer anymore.
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@Sairek It's correct that when the match is going well for the killer, then PGTW is a useful perk to keep the momentum.
As you wrote, the problem is that you have to get to that point first. And if you play against a good team that doesn't make big mistakes, you won't be able to start the snowball.
Like you said, the killer has to hope that he can put pressure on the survs early in the match. It depends on the survs, it's not in the killer's hands.
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Just one thing to add: PGTW FEELS good when you use it on a generator that has a decent progress already. The regression is clearly visible and audible. Very satisfying.
Post edited by George_Soros on5 -
I used Pop Goes the Weasel over Ruin even before the buff. My first rank 1 was with Pig and it was my only stalling.
I love the perk because over a match it can stall the game a tonne. The better you snowball, the more time you buy, the better time you have to snowball.
It becomes better as the number of gens decrease, as you often know which has the most progress. However even early game, regardless of the gen you kick, there's 20 seconds that they've spent for absolutely no gain.
Ruin is only valuable against bad survivors that cannot find it quickly, but as you gain rank it's reasonable to assume it is already being cleansed 10-15 seconds into a match. It simply doesn't buy the time you're bringing it for, and that perk slot could be something that helps you end chases faster, or something like PGtW that shaves those same seconds and more off the game as a whole.
Obviously the benefit of Ruin is that it's active from the start, so you have a chance to start your match BEFORE 3 gens go off, but I just can't get behind it if I have something else to run when it simply isn't reliable at doing that one job anyway.
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I often take both on clown. Ruin slows the start of the game. By the time its destroyed hopefully I have started hooking people and it rolls on quite nicely.
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On my spirit I am running a lot a gen protector build with ruin, pgtw, overcharge and bbq.
It works pretty well
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Just to make a point here...
All things equal, one hook is the same as 4 good Ruin skill checks. If you you get 1 hook on everyone and use PGTW each time, that's like getting 16 skill checks. How often do you think a group of survivors gets 16 skill checks before the totem is gone? Not very.
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I find myself quite likeing PGTW since the buff. As far as Ruin, every time I feel talked into equipping it on these forums, I end up taking it off again shortly after because it just gets knocked out relatively quickly more often than not. I recently played a few games where I had both equipped, and PGTW was putting in work while Ruin just gets knocked out pretty quickly.
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Overcharge honestly is awful against experienced players who can land skillchecks. I think it only has its niche use with a Doctor running Unnerving Presence.
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Which is what gives it good synergy with Discordance perk. Of course, you'll need to memorize what generator turned yellow by the time you hooked your survivor.
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It's honestly just bad spawns in most cases.
I'm sick and tired of hex totem spawns right next to trees with an exposed view on 3 sides, or worse, a hex totem spawning inside the killer shack.
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