Popular tag: TheLegion
Just pointing The Legion its the only killer with lots of popular tags on threads, its more popular than Event Tag!
Most of the threads are about fixing Legion, something must be wrong on them if people complain that much, right?
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That is something what should be assumed by that, but maybe we need to make another 270+ threads before we get a posting from the devs to that. The future will show.
Imo, it would be funny to see the Legion tag for the Devstream tag :D.
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What they did to legion wasnt a nerf, it was a punishment for those who exploited them
The deep wounds rework and no more lunging was just enough to balance Legion, instead, they saturated with unnecessary nerfs
- No need to remove the ability to see pools of blood
- No need to reduce their feral frenzy speed
- No need to reduce their vaulting speed
- No need to not let them see the progress of deep wounds
With that said i hope BHVR revisits legion in the future because they are in a severe need for buffs
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I'll address some of the concerns from this post https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/553362/#Comment_553362:
- No need to remove the ability to see pools of blood
Now when you trigger FF, you had better know where your quarry is. It's less likely when using it for traversal that you'll stumble across a random Survivor. This allowed us to give it more duration and distance.
- No need to reduce their feral frenzy speed
We reduced the speed so we could increase the duration. One FF now covers 50m instead of ~32m. That makes Killer Instinct more useful.
- No need to reduce their vaulting speed
This was part of introducing counterplay. Vaults are one of the Survivors' few tools for escape.
- No need to not let them see the progress of deep wounds
Deep wound going down or not became an indicator for whether the Survivor in question was inside your TR or not. That was deemed too much information to give to the killer.
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Finally a answer, I really appreciate that. I have understand the background of the frenzy speed nerf and also the duration buff, now the Legion comes less in situations where she almost "needs" to tunnel someone, but still...
The whole rework makes no fun for people that have either love the archetyp of a fast moving killer and/or had enogh of the m1 killers.
Of course, as a non-exploiting and non-using addons Legion I have love the pre patch Legion, because she was exactly that: The fast stabbing archtype killer and all we want to have back is this feeling.
It is hard to get this feeling, when you see survivors running away for you, or you have to struggle with a feeled thousand drawbacks. The feeling of beeing fast and maybe dangerous comes there not up anymore.
We would like to see a rework of the Legion with lesser drawbacks and so that she feels fast again. Also drawbacks are a more and more uncommon "balance tool" if we look at other games in the industry (because.. welll they make no fun for the players).
I think you could undone parts of the rework without annoying someone - besides the pure haters - because the Legion was never one of the uber red ranks killers. If necessary, just make the green addons+ weak (so also the purple/red) and of course, don't undone the exploits :).
Exploiters belong to be on a cross, how the Legion in a other game would say...
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oops double post
Post edited by [Deleted User] on0 -
I also have another question. Are you going to remove miss penalty? It's so unnecessary, nobody misses in Feral Frenzy. I can show you a clip where autoaim has aimed for me and missed. It didn't affect me that much because i had already lost the game, but imagine if this happens and Legion suddenly loses all pressure because of a random lag/autoaim error
here is the clip link to anybody interested
EDit again: it might look like a simple m1, but i lunged there i held m1, yet the game still decided to autoaim for me and you can see that i am aiming at the claudette but my weapon sways a little bit to and i have no control there, it just tries to correct it when it didnt need to. you can also observe that i was still aiming at the claudette on my own after the knife has missed
Post edited by [Deleted User] on5 -
That together with the slower vault speed and the slower frenzy speed, is the greatest fun killer on the Legion imo. Also, since deep wounds has its own drawbacks, those things could be undone.
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It's sad, I really like The Legion as they are the only Killer you can never be called 'tunneler' with. If you have to tunnel with them, something went horribly wrong during the trial.
Unfortunately, it feels like since the inital double-blade mend exploit got patched out - more and more Survivors have been dc'ing regardless of the nerfs to Legion (and was what believed to be causing the inital dc epidemic).
Sadly, now we not only have a very boring AND unviable Killer, we are also still suffering from the DC problem today. I do feel sorry for Legion a bit as they kind of became a scapegoat in what is a much bigger issue.
Surely they need to be given a buff of some kind?
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Absolutely. Their voice is ASMR on it's own, but also hitting rapidly makes you feel like a killer.
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"ARGHHHHHHHH" ~ Frank.
Says it all lol.
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Legion felt better to play when I could move at a base 32m really fast rather than at a slower speed to cover 50m. I had more fun and control of the killer when I could freely go in and out of frenzy when I felt the timing was right for me. I know where my target is when I trigger frenzy, but what if i want to track them and hit them again with frenzy? I can't because I can't see blood during frenzy and the increased duration isn't really meaningful at intermediate and higher level play where survivors can easily waste 20s. The reduction to vault speed should have never went past 15-20% as now vaults look and feel sluggish. You could have done a 15% reduction and given survivors the same room for vault plays.
I'm over complaining about seeing the timer move or even having deep wounds asa feature for legion. I wish you'd just give it to borrowed time entirely and give us something that only legion has so we stop having to see this killer get indirect nerfs.
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Why killer instinct sucks: Survivors have an instinct to run too
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Vault speed counter play? Really? Counterplay to hits that dont down you no matter how much they hit you with it? A long stun? A stun with obscured vision?
And thats the best argument you could come up with for being unable to see DW timer? A Killer that is apparently designed to stall the game and rely on tracking is suddenly "having too much information". Almost like the timer isnt paused while mending. Maybe if DW didnt pause during it, but really? Same deal with blood pools.
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THey gave Legion longer duration at the cost of being slow and loopable in some cases as if running in a straight line wasn't enough. Imagine if survivors did not know that someone had been inflicted by deep wounds, then they probably wouldn't just run in a straight line until they have seen Legion themselves chasing after them. But still his Terror Radius is so large and easy to tell if he's coming for you by just listening. Spirit is a great example. Her power alerts survivors by the vacuum sound if not in TR, but at the same time Spirit is invisible and she is very much faster than Survivors or Legion.
Also it shouldnt be deemed too much information because it is basically a Whispers. Wraith has base Insidious and while there is a big difference between the two perks, Wraith's power wasn't changed because it is a bonus to his power.
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Just wait for the 5 year anniversary stream like Freddy
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But I would like to have fun again with the Legion a little bit sooner :|
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Sorry for the doubleposting now, but Almo I just like to say that the whole Legion patch gave the impression, that you guys were in panic.
Maybe that is wrong, but for me as a pre patch Legion, and also for the nerf-thread starters has it look like this.
At the moment where it whas clear, that the Legion patch would come, they had already claim it as their victory (and then they had already shift over to nerf nurse and spirit threads, but that is another topic).
My point is, not every survivor is like those guys. Infact I believe they are the minority. Sure, as a pre patch Legion I am maybe biased, but I have read different opinions of the Legion in my endgame chat and also in the steam forums sometimes.
Infact, it is not uncommon today, to find in the dbd forums (here), survivors that say things like that is actual boring to play against the Legion, because she is no longer a threat anymore - compared to the most other killers.
Not every survivor likes an easy game. I understand, why somebody thinks that when I look at the nerf threads, but there are also survivors who like to have the opposit.
They like to have thrilling games that are actual a challenge for them. A gutted killer can't delivier that to them.
I know, you think maybe now, that I am talking to biased, but I can show you a collage with actual 4-5 endgame-chats that speak a different language as those survivors in the nerf threads.
Sadly, I can't show more, because as I started to make this collage, the Legion patch whas only 1-3 days away. So I had only a short time window where I could make this collage.
But, positive survivor comments were a standard in my endgame chat. Sure sometimes I had also crybabies in there, but that was honestly not very often.
After my experience, survivors had enjoy to play against the pre patch Legion, if she had not exploit, or use the op addons.
So... TL:DR... I don't think, that you need to be too afraid, to undone a few things.
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Thanks for the answer, but i still strongly disagree with the decisions you made
- Now when you trigger FF, you had better know where your quarry is. It's less likely when using it for traversal that you'll stumble across a random Survivor. This allowed us to give it more duration and distance.
Duration and distance for who? The survivors? come on, the moonwalk exploit is no more, this would be very useful to be able to track surviors on those pesky corn maps, where legion really struggles
- We reduced the speed so we could increase the duration. One FF now covers 50m instead of ~32m. That makes Killer Instinct more useful.
Survivors arent stupid, they start running the oposite direction once they know your killer instinct has revealed them, higher speed gave survivors less reaction time and helped putting tons of pressure over them
distance means nothing if there is no way to reach it fastly
But well, you also "reworked" the speed add-ons
- This was part of introducing counterplay. Vaults are one of the Survivors' few tools for escape.
Would be a good answer if legion had no counterplay, problem is he has, he is too easy to juke and his power has little to no lethality, which makes this nerf even more ridiculous
- Deep wound going down or not became an indicator for whether the Survivor in question was inside your TR or not. That was deemed too much information to give to the killer.
My problem here is the deep wound timer wont go down if the survivor is mending and legion has a big enough TR, this would not only be very useful to legion, it would also have considerable counterplay
And one last thing i forgot to add in my original post
- No need to make the stun worse
This was really dumb, you should have reworked the stun add-ons if you wanted to keep it balanced, not the speed ones
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Legion's nerf was/is even worse than the nerf given to Freddy. Button addons are worthless, stun duration increased, slowed speed etc. It was claimed that he had no counterplay ,when he did, pre nerf.
Another example of counterplay: If a legion didn't want to bounce between survivors he couldn't apply map/gen pressure and would get gen rushed for one survivor. That, in itself, is a major punishment.
Any other killer can barrel down on one survivor, losing pressure in the process, for one down. But, Legion was singled out? It's a bad play in the majority of cases no matter the killer.
Keep the deep wound rework and missed attack stun but give Legion their speed back and reduce the stun duration. Then, rework the button add-ons. Maybe, make them apply on the first frenzy hit or increase the duation of the debuffs?
At this point I wish I could ask for a refund but I have already put time and bloodpoints into Legion. It's just frustrating and disheartening.
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This rework is just derision in a formal way. They just had to change the most unique killer into a basic M1 killer. I would say Freddy's power is threatening and a disadvantage to the Survivors meanwhile Survivors can mend in front of Legion.
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I love legion concept, but missing and getting a long duration of a stun sucks to let survivors escape. I this already in another thread, but I hate not seeing blood, not able to reach people on time for chain attack with the speed and power gauge refill time and vault speed does not help me chases. Bad enough that survivors knows about the nerfs, have to go in circle chases to get a hit. Only thing I like about change is no longer having power gauge reduce and movement speed uped.
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5m/s in frenzy means they not know their game.
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Your explanation on the things mentioned doesn't make a lot of sense since the whole point of this thread was to show you guys that there is a HUGE problem with Legion as they are today. We understand what the point of the changes was, still we all agree on the fact, that Legion is unplayable in the purple-red ranks and needs a fix asap.
Like OP said, there surely must be a reason why the forums are full of Legion posts, right? I bet you guys STILL think that the changes you made were adequate.
And one last thing (I know a lot of you guys already said that but I feel like we need to repeat that for our fellow balancing team) - If "counterplay" is a concern now, what about nurse? Because it's not like she counters ALL of the survivors mechanics right? Take your time with the answer as you won't find any - still we will wait for it BHVR :)
Post edited by Odimm on4 -
a lot of people on this forum idealize pre-rework legion as being "fun" for them, not realizing that the only reason it was fun for them was that it delivered them effortless downs
it was absolutely horrible for the game and needed to change, though i do think current legion could use some tweaking
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At least for Legion that only use addons with a maximum of the green rank, it was not much more effortless as for any other killer.
And also survivors have enjoy it, when I remember my endgame chats (mostly) and some survivor comments in the steam, but also here in the official dbd forums.
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The logic behind these changes is honestly quite flawed and don't even accomplish what they've set out to do in the first place. On relating to your reasons behind the changes.
The Legion rework gave an acceptable amount of counter play in the form of FF's power gauge depleting on whiffed attacks and Deep wounds as a whole losing it's ability to down survivors in the first place, but added changes after these two simply addressed problems that weren't even present anymore.
Removing the ability to see blood while in FF is simply anti synergistic due to FF being a power based on the idea of creating pressure on survivors within Killer Instincts radius and it's reason for removal only stands on the statement you've made of it being done to increase FF's distance and duration which leads me to your next point.
Killer instinct is strictly worse with the changes to FF's run speed as you can no longer utilize the information gained due the amount of time needed to chase down a survivors.
The Legions changes to vault speed also hampers your ability to create something useful situations out of of Killer instincts effects and furthermore was completely unnecessary due to Deep Wounds already being unable to down a survivor in the first place.
What makes these changes to The Legion even more frustrating is that we've stated time and time again the aspects that we all enjoy about The Legion is being a FAST and MOBILE Killer and these changes clearly show how the balance team refuses to acknowledge our feedback and expectations out of this killer.
All levels of play have stated these are most enjoyable aspects of playing The Legion, acknowledge our feedback and expectations of this killer because at this point it's just pathetic hearing your attempts to justify the current state of The Legion.
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Agreed 100%
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I just hope that they wake one day up.
We could have fun again.
Survivors who like to have a challenge could have fun again.
And they could making more money again. Because people who not play anymore because of the Legion patch and people that are disappointed by the difference between reality and advertising will not buy any skins^^.
That would be a win-win-win situation behavior. Just throw that in the room...
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There is no point in asking these devs for anything killer wise, they do not listen or care about killers.
I understand exploits should and definitely be fix however doesn't mean u have to put killer into the dirt
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Legion with this rework is bad and useless killer with a useless power.
I can understand the deep wound change to avoid Micheal Jackson Strategy, but the speed nerf is bad! And to justify it you are saying that you buffed duration, but you still can't reach them genius!
Also the miss attack reset your power is a BS, it's normal to do a mistake also maybe from a FPS problems or lags.
DEVS ONLY WANT TO JUSTIFY THIS STUPID LEGION "REWORK" AND DON'T WANT TO LISTEN US!
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If you want to see any response and I mean real response start going to the dbd twitter and telling them daily you want them to #FixLegion. If enough people do and it gets traction enough for people to see it. Maybe we can actually get our killer back.
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The current chase with the Legion feels, like if you are a donkey with a carrot for your head.
You see your target, but you will nerver reach it, if it is not rank 20 (in real or in mindset) ^^. No, no. And on top of that... If you just make one wrong step, a hunter comes and shot you... It feels like that, imo.
That is pretty unsatisfying for a killer who is advertised to be "fast" and "agile".
I think also that they don't want to listen to us... yet. And I can understand it. They have weeks, maybe months work on the rework and then... Nobody likes it of the former Legion mains.
I can't hold it back... They should have seen this coming...
But it is too late for those thoughts. I hope they realize one day, that the only thing they can do right now, is to undone the patch, if they want to do something good and what is right.
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Yeah i gave up hope on the game and now playing RE2 and F13. I don't think anybody cares about 1 person. Let alone Legion the game being balanced around casuals is just ######### when every other game is taking advice from people who have experience and can determine balance by that experience. They had 70k players on the free weekend and now it's back to 21k average players.
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I just play and mod Skyrim/Fallout 4 in the time between and I thinking to play a little bit Battlefield 3 or 4 again. 1 shot - 1 kill, -not like in dbd with its 3 hook system^^.
Still I wait for the undone of the patch. 1 day they will need to realize, that patches like the Legion patch make the game to boring. For killers and survivors.
All those new threads in the dbd forums about boring gameplay, second objectives and so on - that is just a symptom, because they have make the game too easy for the survivors imo.
Sooner or later they have to face this and then we can only hope for this game, that they turn the tables and coming to the right conclusions.
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Yep, its only a matter of time before a new competitor rises and the people instantly switch to that game. Only reason this game is still alive is because of the streamers youtubers and that there is technically no competitor, because F13 has a bad reputation yet it is a great game (got it yesterday and im loving it even when i die), and Last Year is still not updated to Steam nor have gotten any update from the devs since like 2 weeks ago (just a pinned comment saying nothing new about the update but there's progress and that it's very big in discord server)
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I just got into Total War: Warhammer 2. Micromanaging vampire pirate armies happened to be a more rewarding and fun experience than slogging through Legion games. I'm at a place where I sort of need another break. I've slid into green ranks on survivor without even trying to and got bored. Played for the first time in like a week or so tonight just to get some dailys out of the queue. Pretty much stopped after that.
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Guess I'm buying Friday the 13th..... Seems like devs couldn't care less about their game or their players voices in the forums. It's really a damn shame. Thought this game was way better dued to more killers and challenging playstyles, but it's not worth it if devs only nerf newer killers while many of them were much stronger than Legion. Smh #fixlegion
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Well my man watch out because Voice chat is useless
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Started doing it today. Nice picture change btw I'm gonna do that too.
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