Just Have to Say
Just wanted to say again thank you devs for ruining Ghostface, you really know how to keep me invested in the game with these educated changes. There was no reason to nerf GF right out of the gate you never even gave the community time to test him at the only ranks that matter the red ranks if you balance for casuals or low rank then every killer will get destroyed by the red ranks.
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Even after the changes, he honestly isn't that bad. I play against purple and red ranks consistently and do just fine with him. Tell me what your problem is with his power and I'll see if I can help you with it.
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I also play him at rank 1, he can still work but its much harder then it should be to use his power fully and matches when you just m1 are harder and not fun. Ghostface was super fun at release I really enjoyed playing him but now the negatives outweigh the positives the nerf should never have happened not until information was collected.
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He's in a solid spot right now, I'm enjoying him a lot.
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He’s really good. You have to use his ability and crouch to mindgame survivors. When stalking always try and creep up and lean from cover
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Losing the crazy noises kind of outweighed making him easier to kick out of stealth. I use the stalk about as much as I did before the changes which isn't much. Breaking past a safety with him at high ranks can be a challenge though for sure.
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Basically what happened lol
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Honestly I think the secret strat to making it so the devs don't nerf a killer when they are released is to say that the killer still needs buffs :/
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This is the part where the downvote reaction would come into play.
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Lots of people were saying he needed buffs
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In the past week alone, Ghost Face has maintained a very high kill rate at rank 1 (above 70%). The changes made during the first hotfix were, as mentioned, very minor and did not have a notable impact on his kill rate. We're still keeping an eye on him, but between looking at the stats and watching experienced players, he's anything but weak right now.
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Ok so you are also saying that one of the best dbd players should get good because Tru3ta1ent also has this opinion of Ghostface. Don't tell me to get gud when you could not beat me and you are dreaming if you think you could beat him.
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Well no offence but I have been playing for 3 years now and the stats you people post are questionable at best many streamers have pointed that out and if he is doing well its not because of his power because at rank 1 he is a m1 killer 90% of the time.
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@Peanits But how does your internal data categorize a kill? Is it the actual third-hook death or a Mori? Or does it also count irate Survivors suiciding on the hook early, or DCing, as kills? Because if it isn't just a third-hook death or a Mori, then the data is skewed.
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Every player who's actually good at the game whenever the "but the stats say..." meme is perpetuated by Peanits:
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Have you played him since then? Because it still sounds like an elephant is charging at you when he is sneaking around he has the body of an average guy but it sounds like he weighs a ton when he walks around.
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Shouldn't the high kill rate be normal the first couple of weeks? Survivors didn't have long to learn their opponent before the changes. I would think that an even 50% right away would be a bad indicator of the killer's performance.
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@DemonDaddy It is for the first several weeks. It's the exact, same thing we tell people at the Overwatch forums who try to use Pick Rate and Win Rate percentages right after a new hero has been released, major buffs or nerfs take place, or a rework takes place: You have to wait several weeks for the dust to settle and people to get used to the new hero or hero changes.
I'd be much more interested in seeing the data for late July to late August. But only if, as I questioned Peanits above, a kill is counted purely via a third-hook death or a Mori. If their data also includes DCs or hook suicides, then the data is not useful.
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If seeing good players do well and the stats reflecting that doesn't do it for you, I'm not sure what to say. You're ruling out both anecdotal evidence and statistics. The only thing left beyond that are feelings. To give a direct comparison, his kill rate is only a few percentage lower than the nurse (at rank 1, on PC).
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Kills, moris, bleedouts, and DCs are all counted towards the stats (as they are with other killers). This is the most reliable way to take statistics. A lot of the time when survivors DC, it's because the match isn't going their way. If you were to exclude any matches with disconnects, you would be skewing the statistics towards matches that worked in the survivors favour.
The disconnect rate for Ghost Face is comparatively low compared to some other killers (nurse, for example).
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So his kill rate is equal to the best killer in the game "cough" "cough" bullshit, I am sorry but I highly doubt that the data must be flawed in some way like it usually is or you are told to say that to justify the nerf the only killer to come close to Nurse on a tier list and being viable is Spirit.
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Exactly someone having a bad day and dcs for no reason or a bad killer tunneling hooks for the mori does not reflect how good the killer is against people that are truly rank 1s.
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Which players, if you don't mind naming them, are saying that Ghostface is red rank material? I'm actually curious here.
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@BadMrFrosty Certainly not of their vaunted, popular Fog Whisperers that I've been looking into concerning GF. Tuning into their streams is usually against my better judgement, but I held my breath and did it to find out about GF.
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Tru3ta1ent is a fog whisperer and he does not hesitate to tell it how it is with GF
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@Surazaku Although I, generally speaking, haven't been watching Twitch much the past month outside of dropping in about Ghostface (I have a new novel due, so have been swamped, also why I haven't been in DBD much), Tru3 is actually the only major Fog Whisperer I enjoy watching. 😉
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I think he is the only one that will give you honest answers and he does not pull punches when it comes to the game or the devs
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My only question would be is the amount of players of each killer also being taken into account? If there is way more Nurses and way less Ghostfaces then the data could be skewed. If there is many more Nurses the the chances of them being of a wider varance of player skill goes up. Just like if its way less Ghostfaces then it could be the hardcore ones who know him the best. It would be like comparing 5 handed picked apples to a bag full of good and bad ones. I just like statistics like this so that's why I ask. And I also don't think Ghostface is really that bad... not my best killer but I enjoy using him.
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@Peanits Sorry to say this but looking strictly at rank 1 isn't a reliable way of seeing how good he is because of the requirements needed to constantly be rank 1. Makes sense a rank 1 killer will do good. If anything, the ranks 2-8 is where you should see what's happening.
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Tru3 isn't the only killer streamer on the planet. I've heard Zubatlel, Hexy, and Scottjund call him a solid high-mid / mid tier.
And again, you were given solid Rank 1 statistics here. You might find some aspects of his kit frustrating, as I'm sure survivors do as well, but to call him "weak"? Nah, that's just going by emotions and self-failure.
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You realize that at least two of those mentioned streamers (Hexy and ScottJund) have admitted that Ghostface will get absolutely mauled by a good group of survivors, right? This isn't just feedback driven purely by emotion and 'not being good enough.'
People want killers that allow them to compete with and beat survivors playing at their best (while they are also playing at their best). No matter how good a Ghostface you are, you will never beat a team of good survivors unless they hand you the win. You do not have the power.. (literally in some cases).
But I guess, much like Peanits, it's easier to just brand feedback that doesn't line up with your ideas as emotional or driven by self-failure. Condemn and move on, it requires less effort then admitting there's a legitimate problem.
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Yes, coordinated SWF will maul any killer not named Nurse, Billy, and Prayer Beads Spirit. This is nothing new.
Are you asking for Ghostface to be a competent killer for like 90% of red ranked games (which are not made up of 4 amazing players in even close to the majority of games even at rank 1) or for him to be the next top tier Killer? Because there are a lot more killers that would need love before Ghostface.
Fact of the matter is that the OP claimed that Ghostface was "ruined". He said that players weren't given a chance to test him at red ranks before release. He was given statistics on the kill rate at rank 1 then he moved the goal post.
Where is the logic?
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Not just SWF, but good solo players also wreck a majority of the killers that are not in the trinity (nurse/spirit/billy). What a lot of people are confused about (myself included) is how these statistics are determined, under what conditions, using what sample size of which ranks, etc. Unless we know exactly how they're getting these numbers, they may as well be worthless. Now, if we got a reasonably detailed post explaining how they get these values and what their process is for determining whether or not a killer is 'fine' at high levels, there'd be a lot less suspicion and doubt. At the very least, the community could see what metric was being used to determine if the developers decide to take action or not.
As for Ghostface being ruined? Well, that happened before he was even on the PTB. He never had a chance to be a top tier killer the way his power is designed. At most, he's a fun diversion, and that's ok if you're not a competitive player.
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@BadMrFrosty I'm going to be honest. I wouldn't play a Behavior asymmetrical game as any type of serious competitive game, any more than I would play Blizzard games as such (despite them trying to make Overwatch into one with the joke of an Overwatch League).
Behavior doesn't balance around that type of serious play, they balance for the casuals. It's the same issue with Deathgarden: Bloodharvest. People cried that the power role, the Hunter, was a power role. Enter the latest patch and the whole "mercy" change to the game and Scavengers getting two lives now.
Now Hunters who post are claiming the change was BS and reduced them to the same role as Killer in DBD: a joke.
Behavior doesn't balance for serious competitive play. The misconception on that is having only a Ranked mode to their games. Something they claim is for matchmaking. Well, that was an asinine decision that causes such an identity crisis. They should have just gone with a hidden MMR matchmaking system.
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Even if, say, BVHR decided to scrap the ranking system and use hidden MMR instead.. would that really solve the problem? Even if a game is "just for fun", losing because of reasons outside of your control (bugs, map design, killer design, etc) doesn't exactly make anyone feel good or like they had an enjoyable experience. Whether you brand a game casual or competitive will not impact how people feel if they believe they've been cheated out of a win they deserve, especially if there was legitimately nothing they could do about it.
That's the crux of this game's problem. Killers, on average, are not given adequate tools to do their job and have artificial limitations placed on them that hamper a player's growth (not counting the few exceptions to this rule).
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@BadMrFrosty In my opinion, that comes down to business. They need Survivors happier more than Killers, despite many people playing both sides. They seem, at least from my perspective, to worry too much about the 4 players over the 1 player, so to speak.
Again, same thing in Deathgarden has happened. Scavengers hated instant executes when downed. Player numbers plumetted. The latest patch changed it, gave them two lives, and effectively hurt hunters.
And guess what? Their player numbers spiked briefly, and have yet again plummeted down again. And they're even lower now than before the latest patch.
Sometimes I feel like BHVR is reading their player base completely wrong, and Deathgarden is starting to feel like a confirmation on that.
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You must be the type of person that uses Night Shroud in the middle of a chase.
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Wait if dcing counts towards a killers kill percentage... then just how bad was the old legion, wasn't his kill percentage at 50% in those stats they released a little while ago? Shouldnt that have been much higher considering how common dc's were against old legion? Or am i just looking at this wrong?
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I bet you are not even in purple ranks.
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@Surazaku From what I'm reading it seems like you want his power to be able to be used 100% of the time, rather than using the correct time for it. His ability is tied to M1, so of course there will be times he's an M1 killer. Wishing for otherwise would ruin Michael Myers, and would make him rather OP. He has more than just his exposed effect. You can use his Night Shroud to trick survivors into running into you. This means you still have to M1, but it doesn't make it any less powerful of a tool. His only problem in my mind is how susceptible he is to gen rush.
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lol at people finger-wagging hard internal data with their anecdotal evidence. I have some reading material for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking
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Watch Tru3s stream you will learn the game.
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Ghost Face isn't bad he is easily High Tier and is surely playable at rank 1 with the right perks. I can say this because majority of my games are pips and the rest are black pips. Not saying he is nurse or anything but the hotfix that was released was meant to be released with the PTB Ghost Face and weren't based off of those who said," GHOST FACE TOO OP! NERF!". The changes haven't even been that noticeable and I've been playing almost solely Ghost Face.
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"Minor".
8% detection increase isn't minor. You can break GFs stealth, safely hidden, from behind any obstacle as a survivor due to this incredibly unnecessary nerf. He was fine fresh out from the PTB. He isn't fine now.
There's no skill required what so ever to CANCEL Ghostfaces power. Which is an absurd mechanic to even begin with.
As Ghostface, you have one chance to make use of the element of surprise, in the start of the game with stealth. Once that is done, 9/10 times the rest of the survivors knows what killer they are up against and will simply walk behind any form of obstacle, and make use of that great 3rd person camera and simply break GF out of stealth before a chase even begins. Rendering GF a more useless version of Wraith.
I get it though, it's your "job" to defend aspects of the game no matter how terrible made it is.
Have the devs ever asked themselves "Why is the community in an uproar every time a new killer is released, in regards of nerfs?" We don't voice ourselves "Don't nerf" for no reason. Time after time we get useless killers and get dissapointed. Each killer released greatens that dissapointment even further. And what happens in the end? A decent killer gets nerfed and becomes #########. Fun.
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Amen 3 years I have been putting up with this.
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Yea, it's a horrible and sad trend. I doubt we will ever see a reliable non-m1 killer release.
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I'm at red ranks with both survivor and killer, and i'm not even proud of it.
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