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It's hilarious how "Freddy mains" are calling the Freddy rework a downgrade.
How can it be a downgrade? A trapless Trapper is better than he currently is. I agree that it's very underwhelming and he'll still be trash but at least he'll be able to kill people.
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Ill just leave this here...
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I agree. It's terrible and considering the time we've been waiting for, it really shows that these devs have no idea about how the game is. But it's not a downgrade. He goes from terribly bad to bad. I still think he'll be the worst killer in the game tho.
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Even considering Legion is around?
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I didn't touch Legion since his nerf, I don't know how bad he is.
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People meme Freddy as being weak, when in reality if played right ha can be a force to reckon with, he is just really difficult to master.
Current rework eliminates many of his unique aspects and makes the dream world pretty damn pointless, since there is no action speed debuff or aura revealing and you can still wake up even with more options than before
IMO they should let us switch between old freddy and new freddy for those people that wont be content with the new changes
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That just shows that you have no idea how to play current Freddy.
I suggest you don't ridicule the opinion and experience of those that have spent weeks and even months getting good with current Freddy and eventually mastering him, if you aren't on that level yourself.
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@DocOctober I love your comments on things like this.
In regards to the topic I’m just really disappointed how many things we have to trade off for gimmicks (I.e. aura reading, debuffs, difficulty to wake up because apparently a consistent way to wake up was necessary? Invisibility mindgames with the transition, the class photo addon) I’m just going to miss everything I bothered spending time to learn for what looks underwhelming and doesn’t add much in return considering what is lost.
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I don't know why people are freaking out about it so much, like its not even out on the ptb, shut up intill then lmao
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I keep seeing that kind of bullshit. How about you finally show us how to play Freddy instead of your usual "Just google it".
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Thank you, unfortunately I don't have PGTW on him so I can't try out this build. But I'm already using every other perks you mentioned and I fail to see how you can get any kills. I go to my ruin, someone is already on it, by the time he falls asleep it's destroyed. I hook him after a short chase , 1 gen done. I go to another gen, it's nearly done. I put him to sleep, he finishes it in my face. And that's how it was the entire game. Also, no one stayed in the dream world for more than 20 seconds when I wasn't chasing them.
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I always went with the decreased transition (blocks) and dress combo (difficult to get skill checks to wake up) and that is so similar to my build except I use blood warden instead of NC. I only ever used pill bottle occasionally. Class photo felt borderline dirty but it was a favourite for an occasional wrecking match
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Only thing with current Freddy I dislike is that he relies too much on rng. Even if you put multiple survivors to sleep if they get lucky they can wake up really fast.
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Bros I told you. This game will continue like this until a competitor arrives to challenge. Yet another rework NERF filled with survivor hand holding.
Freddy is literally one of the most dangerous movie antagonists EVER and he's been a joke since release and will CONTINUE to be a joke. We know why. They're SCARED to give us a Nurse Tier killer. Spirit was a mistake and trust they'll find a way to nerf her into the ground too.
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People want to be able to switch between the powers, but they don't understand all the reasons why he's getting a rework. It's not just about being weak (or I guess, difficult to master?) but it's also about how much fun people have playing him/playing against him, the latter being a big reason why he's getting a rework. Extremely frustrating killer for new survivors.
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With such an audacious attitude I shouldn't even bother.
But, I'm in a good mood, so I'll humour you.
A good Freddy micromanages the ######### out of Survivors. It should be your goal to put the Survivors in the Dream World as often as possible, that means even putting them asleep mid-chase if you're chasing another Survivor, should the occasion arise. The Aura-reading allows you to keep tabs on all Survivors, allowing you to plan strategies and approaches without having to waste time on searching for them.
The 7-second delay means absolutely nothing if you can put them to sleep from far away, since by the time you caught up, they'll be in the Dream World already. In that case, there's no such thing as "you have to wait 7 seconds before you are allowed to hit them".
He is invisible to awake Survivors, allowing you to position yourself at vantage points to put Survivors to sleep that attempt rescues. He flickers during the Dream Transition, allowing for mindgames at Pallets or around corners.
As for Dead Hard Survivors, I never hit those directly after pulling them into the Dream World. Most Survivors will dash right when they transition, wasting their Dead Hard and I'll get a hit a two seconds later.
He's short, which causes Survivors to misjudge his speed and lunge range, I get many more hits at pallets with him than with any other Killer.
Generally, pull Survivors in as often as possible and whenever possible. See an awake Survivor somewhere even if you're doing something else? Interrupt what you're doing and pull them in. It stalls them immensely and buys you more time than using Hex: Ruin for example ever could.
Even if they keep waking themselves up with gens, that'll cost them 10 seconds repair time each time. With Self-Care? It gives you their location. Again, no need to search for them that way, they basically tell you where they are.
Playing Freddy requires a lot of quick decision-making and micromanaging, but it pays off.
And my point remains: unless you play Freddy at the level of us Freddy mains and stop being ignorant of his potential, you have no right to ridicule us.
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Then put them back. As often as you can.
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A trapless Trapper is not better than OG Freddy, your ignorance is a loud shout inside a church bell, it hurts.
Anyway, I am excited for the new Freddy, ma boi is nervous but at least his abilities are actually from the films this time and reflect what he is. I am very interested in using his Snares and working with his teleportation but of course, the Devs will nerf to the ground because that's what they do, can't have Killers having fun or actually being a threat. Seriously, when they said that Freddy's teleportation had no range, I was SHOCKED, I was like who are these people, why are they actually giving us something GOOD!?
I will dearly miss my ultra sadist slugger Freddy, I am hoping this rework will keep him in a good place, I feel powerful as Freddy, unlike most, and I hope this rework keeps that feeling.
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I'm not saying it will be good or bad, but I can understand killer frustration cause gimmick tools are vary ineffective against survivors. Then there is waking up; even current sleep is easy to wake from, the only offset was his skill check addons and that he knew your general area when you did wake.
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Are the changes out yet? Or in PTB?
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@Swiftblade131 PTB Tuesday
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Oh cool
So we are just judging early again
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Havent seen the freddy rework but i heard that you can hit survivor without them being in dream world so besicly a free hit GREAT
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Going by that logic every M1 hit is a free hit. I need a facepalm emoji here.
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It's a down grade because he lose his mind game potential from the phasing in and out of view during the dream transition
the phasing now only happen when you are far away from survivor and their is no way for you to track if you are visible or not
Add on top of that that being asleep will as less impact than it use to have and that they have more way to wake up that before the rework
Post edited by Dragonredking on3 -
here it is🤦♂️
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Freddy dream transition time was never frustration for freddy players. It was the fact that if players split up, he can never get multiple in dream state, therefore he can never achieve map presence, slow the game down or acquire meaningful information. Also, Most of the meta perks such as Adrenaline and Self-care naturally counter his power, so even if you do find multiple people in dream state, They can easily render your power irrelevant. So why would freddy player be upset about his rework? He lost what made him good(Strengths), Information and player juggling and gained nothing of value while being even easier to counter-play(magnified weakness).
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The dreamworld wastes survivors time, its the same thing regarding pigs traps. Not everything is supposed to help you kill you know but I guess some things just’ll never change 🤷♀️
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It doesn't doe
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That's not what micromanaging is. The term you're looking for is stalling. And yes, obviously you should put as many survivors into the dream world as possible. That much is brain dead obvious. But what else is obvious to those that have enough experience is that putting survivors into the dream world isn't super simple nor intensely impactful.
To say that the 7 second delay means nothing if you can put them to sleep from far away is the most ignorant thing that's been said in this thread so far. That 7 second delay means absolutely everything with Freddy and to even remotely claim otherwise shows an overwhelming amount of ignorance. That 7 second delays allows free unhooks, free heals, the ability to jump right back out of the transition before it finishes, free positioning at a powerful looping setup, and whatever other massively crippling problems I'm forgetting.
New Freddy will also be invisible to survivors unless you're going to face camp or stand in the most obvious of positions. The difference is that he can actually do something about unhooks if he's patrolling.
The fact that you mention Dead Hard being used after the transition is complete kind of goes to show that you actually don't know what the real struggle with Freddy is. If you have a survivor that's still out in the open by the time dream transition is done, you're going against easy to deal with survivors so Freddy's crippling weaknesses don't have that much an effect on you since the survivors aren't using them against you. And in case you're been led to believe otherwise, Freddy's height isn't changing with the rework. He'll be just as short then as he is now.
Again, it's a good idea to put survivors to sleep whenever possible, but you mention you should interrupt whatever you're doing to put a survivor to sleep. The only time going after a survivor would be an actual interruption is if you're in a chase with a different survivor. And you should not drop the chase against an injured survivor or a survivor that's about to be hit if you need to go a few tiles over in order to put another survivor to sleep. You've just given the survivor you were chasing a free escape and chance to wake themselves up in order to only start a dream transition. It's a decent trade off if you hadn't made any progress on the first survivor, but a waste of your time if you did. You should only put another survivor into transition if you can do so without breaking chase on the first one in those situations.
It's true that skill check failures will regress gen times but the extra time they need to repair that gen to where it was is shorter than the extra time you'll need to catch up to them and put them back to sleep again. As for giving away their location, just being in the dream world does that. You're better if they're asleep than if they fail a skill check.
This isn't quick decision making or micromanaging. It's obvious decision making and stalling. Decent for getting Gatekeeper, that much I can admit, but still more difficult than any other killer to get victories with.
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Freddy re-work was an overarching fundamental strip down nerf when none was required.
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The problem isn't that it's a downgrade. To me, the new Freddy is definitely stronger than the old one.
The problem is that, the new Freddy is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CHARACTER from the old Freddy. He's going from a tracking/game slowing/semi-stealth based killer to a trap/mind game based killer. It's like they took Pig and changed her so much she is now the Hag. THAT is the problem most Freddy players have with the rework.
He also still sounds very add-on dependent. The fact that gen slowing, fake pallets, and some of his other tools are locked behind add-ons means it will be difficult to play base kit Freddy against the best survivors. Also he has to trade traps for fake pallets. If traps are better than pallets, that add-on just becomes worthless. If pallets are better than traps, then he will be dependent on whatever add-on it is that make the fake pallets.
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Say what you want about the rework but an entire character should not be deleted and replaced. There's a lot of people who really have grown to like and get good with old Freddy and losing his entire kit for an unoriginal new killer is so frustrating.
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well. you see. look what they did to ghostface. after devs CLAIM to no longer do knee jerk reactions .... they say one thing but they do another. ghostface isnt viable at red ranks. seems the devs are scared to make a killer powerful or they do it on purpose?? ive no idea any more what goes on in there heads lol. or brains. but is what it is
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@Dragonredking some of us need to get together and figure out that phasing, it is determined by distance and I'm sure Freddy still has an indicator of who is still awake. If we can pinpoint the distance we might still able to mind game.
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Worse still, they rarely talk about what their design intent is for each feature and killer. They outright told us the purpose of the Nurse was to get survivors to diversify playstyles and depend less on loops. They told us Myers was an answer to the ganging-up that was dominant at the time.
They nerfed both and in Myers case removed his multi-stalking, which was essentially a complete U-turn on the design intent. Maybe they don't share stuff with us because then we ask questions when they contradict themselves, but that isn't our fault and they've chosen the wrong way to handle it.
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..That also means players are left speculating a lot when we discuss things and have more heated arguments than we otherwise would.
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Maybe let's agree to disagree? I know my stuff with Freddy. As I said, I mained him for months by now, played him successfully on all ranks. Maybe you find the 7 seconds problematic, I don't, since increased range is my go-to Add-on series to pull them in from far away. There are few scenarios I personally encounter in which by the time I'm on their ass, they are still in the transition. And so what if they unhook and get away? I know exactly where they are, the aura-reading is the most powerful tool he has.
Don't you ever call me ignorant, I take that as a severe personal insult. I suggest you widen your horizon a bit and realise that not all mains play Freddy successfully the same way. I did not claim that my way was the only way to go and everyone else's is wrong. My way is one way, out of several, to go and the one that works best for me, and with which I get the most consistent 4k rate against all sorts of Survivors, which is the only result I personally consider to be a win for me.
Actually, looking at what you said, the ignorant person in this scenario is not me, but is you. My way obviously isn't your way to play Freddy, yet instead of accepting that other Freddy mains have different ways of playing him, you immediately jumped to the conclusion, that I'm ignorant about Freddy and don't know how to play him. Shame on you, quite honestly.
You do you, I do me, someone else does themselves. Be a bit more open next time.
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It's not just me that finds the 7 seconds problematic. It's over 90% of the people that play Freddy that find it problematic. A system that voids your ability to defend and is right next to a garuntee that a survivor can get to a strong loop is widely considered problematic. If you're right on a survivor's ass in 7 seconds, that means you're not playing against skilled survivors while claiming expertise on the character that playing against skilled survivors is required to have.
Saying there is more than one successful way to play Freddy doesn't mean anything. You could literally stare at a wall, wait for survivors while holding M2, and then chase them down for hooks. Do it enough times and you'll eventually get a 4K. Congrats, you played him successfully, but that doesn't even remotely mean that it's a good way to play him and you've developed expertise with him since you can pull it off.
This all boils down to looking at the bigger picture. What makes Freddy powerful is his ability to stall the game and his aura reading. Now stalling the game is a powerful tool, but it's significantly weakened if Freddy himself gets stalled in the process. Stalling the killer is 4 times as effective as stalling the survivor. That's why it's such a huge problem that survivors can run a killer for the duration of multiple generators. His aura reading is highly useful, but dependent on being able to get multiple survivors into the dream world before it becomes useful which is more dependent on how the survivors play than how Freddy plays.
What's ignorant isn't your way to play Freddy, but your adamant refusal to admit his obvious weakness. My honing in on it isn't remotely ignorant or any form of refusal to widen my horizon. It's just the ability to recognize reality.
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The PTB isn't even here yet ffs. If he is actually going to be as bad as people are saying here, he's gonna get tweaks and changes.
Regardless of how he's going to be in the end, I personally don't like playing as nor against him.
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While I don't have a problem with old Freddy, I see a lot of people saying to either allow you to use both powers(one or the other) or make the new Freddy into an entirely different killer. Problem with this is, current Freddy isn't Freddy Krueger power-wise. Reworked Freddy is. Freddy's character is all in these powers. If a new killer needs one of these powers, it'd have to be current Freddy's powers, not reworked Freddy's.
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@Shirokuro those tweaks and changes will only change numbers. But not his basekit. We wanted some QoL changes. Not another trapper.
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You missed the point. I said my way is the way that gives me 4 kills most consistently against all sorts of Survivors. Facing a wall with M2 pressed for dozens if not hundreds of games until you get one lucky 4k does not fall under consistent. I guess you want to argue for the sake of it at this point.
I'll end the discussion here. We agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, you were ignorant and still are and I frankly have better stuff to do than to try to convince you otherwise, since you obviously don't want anyone to do that.
Just realise that more people agree with my statement than they do with yours.
I wish you the best in the fog and do hope that you'll be a bit more open in the future of the diversity of successful playstyles.
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You said it yourself, several Freddy mains would prefer to still be able to play the current Freddy with the rework (I myself suggested two powers to choose from). So what if according to your opinion, current Freddy isn't Freddy Krueger, that doesn't matter to us. Why should that prohibit us from keeping the current Freddy as either of two options to choose from?
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"He's gonna get tweaks and changes"
Dead by Daylight's history has shown this to be wrong for the vast majority of its Killer releases and in the cases it was true, it was after months, if not years sometimes, not an acceptable time span in either case.
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If you truly don't believe this rework is a downgrade, then you have no idea no to play the current Freddy
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As a Freddy main that finally learned how to master him, mind game the F outta people, and finally be a top killer with him after months and months of getting my ass handed to me, I'm PISSED! Hopefully we at least get the option to be old or new Freddy, but I seriously DOUBT that's happening. Guess I'm gonna keep mastering GF.
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For the most part I'm fine with the new Freddy but I can see where others are coming from with complaints. Current Dream State gives Freddy some advantages but there's so much that can go wrong for a Freddy.
I'm liking the new design but the teleport has a lot of unnecessary penalties and I personally don't see Dream World being an issue for survivors because when has a survivor ever really been afraid of a slow?
If I had to pick I'd like current Freddy's aura reading and progression slow over the Snares personally. Although if the Snares prove to be strong in the PTB I'll probably change my mind. I'm just not at all convinced new Freddy will be amazing because he loses map control as the game goes on and again he just has a slow. We'll see how things play out though. Granted new Freddy won't have any of the shortcomings current Freddy has.
I'm going to miss choosing who can engage with the killer though. That was always my favorite part about Freddy's power is you decide who is asleep or not. Just not so much who stays asleep at times.
tl;dr - I like new Freddy but I'd gladly take the Aura Reading + Progression slow over the snares if I had to pick.
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One thing I want to raise and yes, it's mostly a whine about how the devs demonstrably do not listen to killer-mains.
Whenever it is suggested, I never see any strong objections(from killers) to killers being more difficult to use in return for being proportionately stronger: raising the skill-ceiling basically. It also evens out the advantage killers have in low ranks whilst making more of them viable in high ranks.
The problem? It means making other killers more like the Nurse, which the devs said they were going to avoid; not making it clear whether they meant being ableto clip through objects specfically or in general just being more difficult but also more powerful.
Everything I see wrong with the outlined design for New-Freddy looks like a deliberate avoidance of anything that makes a great demand of the killer to use and in return, the toys won't bother survivor much either.
Killers should be harder and stronger, insert a joke about someone's mum here.
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Do you even realize that survivors automatically go into Dream State when they get hit by Freddy? How is that a killer with no power?
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They can be looping him for so long that they could end up in dream-state passively before he even gets to hit them.
The thing is, if you can easily hit a survivor then what do you need a power for? It's a power that only works, if you don't need it.
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