Why is Stream Sniping not punishable?
I never understood how the devs could honestly think this is not a bad thing. It literally ruins the killers/survivors game because someone is going too use perks/addons too hard counter and ruin that persons game. All PVP games punish people for stream sniping, but not DBD and I never understood why. Please devs, make stream sniping bannable. Pretty much the main reason I wouldn't want too stream DBD if I did stream.
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how do you actively punish it? or prove it's happening at all? something like this is nearly impossible to monitor
not saying it's not a gross thing to do (i've personally experienced it and it's a bummer) but there isn't really anything BHVR can do about it
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Punish people for breathing.
- It's out of BE control.
- If you don't want someone to watch or "snipe" you, don't stream.
- If you are going to be streaming, use your brain, give them something to watch. Mislead them.
- The obvious reason it's not bannable, is because it's not even DBD. You're whining about people using other software, or companies products and complaining that such information is used in DBD plays. Well guess what, even if it were bannable, which it won't be, then they will just do it and not post videos about it. The only way you know that people are stream sniping is because they publish about it. If someone is stream sniping and doesn't stream themselves, you have absolutely no way of finding that out.
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It's not the act of Stream Sniping that could be bannable. It's the obnoxious griefing and harassment that usually comes with it that is clearly against the ToS and should be punished.
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Dear Behaviour,
I have been streaming video of myself playing your video game. Little did I know that players who play the same game would actually watch it! Not only that, but on occasion sometimes those players happen to be on the opposite team! Can you believe this?! If I'm playing as the killer, the survivors are always conveniently somewhere I am not. If I'm the survivor then the killer is always inconveniently around every corner! Clearly this is completely unfair. Therefore, any players with DBD accounts who watch me stream deserve to be banned. Thank you for your time.
Signed,
The Victim
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@BunnyTheHutt Here's one for you: While I don't stream snipe, my Twitch name is also not my DBD in-game name. So, while I would appear in a Streamer's channel under my Twitch name, prove it is me in the DBD game when I have a different Steam name.
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Give them a different screen to look at. It can't effect the match that much at all TBH especially with delay. Also if you are using TTV in your name then it's your fault.
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So they're asking for it?
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it's the stream sniper's fault that they're stream sniping, not the streamer
a streamer isn't telling you to go to their stream while playing against them
obviously, punishing for this isn't really possible, but shifting the blame from the stream sniper to the streamer is not constructive
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If the stream sniper is intentionally trying to get into a game with said streamer then it's the stream snipers fault. If someone decides to put TTV in their username then people are going to be douchebags it's what happens.
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It's almost impossible to prove as others have already said.
If you have a problem with stream snipers then take it up with twitch and not the game creators as twitch are the ones who allow you to ban someone from your chat but not from watching you. Twitch will ban snipers I believe but again it's extremely hard to prove.
The games that do it well I have only heard of a couple of cases and those were with huge streamers. The small streamers well I would guess they may not get the same response from a sniping report.
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yes, but the stream sniper is still deciding to stream snipe, and the streamer isn't forcing them to
by blaming the streamer for this you're blaming the victim and not the perpetrator, this is very simple
also, "stream sniping" can be something as harmless as attempting to get into the same game as a streamer, but it can also mean checking the person's stream while playing against them to gain an unfair in-game advantage
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Well, I run into a lot of xxx_twitch guys for an in-game name -.-
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Who would've thought there would be consequences for putting your entire game on public display?
Will we punish people who intentionally put on their nastiest addons and moris for streamers too?
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Just because "don't blame the victim" has become the battle cry of a brain dead generation doesn't mean that victims are never responsible. If you have your name set to t.tv/ObviousPrey, start teabagging and flashlight harassing the killer, and then get stream sniped, then yes it's the killer's fault for stream sniping you. However, if you think that the moron who walked straight into it doesn't bear any responsibility, then you're wildly mistaken. Getting stream sniped in DbD is actually rather difficult unless you're a major streamer or you make it ridiculously easy to do. So unless you're a major streamer, just don't make it easy if you hate being stream sniped so much.
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Solution: hide names in lobbies and only show them post-match.
Easy.
And if you're a popular streamer and people are just guilty of the crime of queuing at the same time you are, then tough cookies. Use it to your advantage for clickbait titles.
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i'm going to simplify this for you as much as possible so that i never have to read another generational rant from you again
putting your game on a livestream does not force anyone to go into your stream. the stream sniper had the agency to decide whether or not to snipe you, and elected to on their own free will. nothing you did forced their hand, and the ball was completely in their court to snipe or cheat off of your stream
i don't care about your list of precautions for how to not get stream sniped because they are completely besides the point. we've already established why this behaviour is not bannable (and why it cannot be bannable). even being obnoxious and baiting someone into stream sniping you doesn't rob them of the agency to make the decision to do it, it just makes it more understandable when they do. at no point in time is a streamer at fault for being stream sniped, and i don't care about your low hanging fruit arguments because they're stupid
if you cannot understand this, that's your problem
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How can people be punished for playing the game? It doesn't matter if they troll the streamer, or use op addons because guess what? Its apart of the game mydude, also, how would you know they're sniping? And what's to stop people from using op stuff to begin with?
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That's the kind of intellect it takes to think that a person who sets somebody's belongings on fire and kills their pet bears no responsibility if they get the hell beaten out of them in retaliation. Sure the person who beat the hell is guilty of assault and battery and should be tried for such. But saying that the victim bears no responsibility is absolutely ridiculous.
"if you cannot understand this, that's your problem"
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And getting stream sniped is totally comparable to getting the hell beaten out of you. It's the exact same line of logic but with different extremes. But the problem is nothing opens your eyes. You close mindedly think that people who put their stream link as their in-game name have absolutely no part in the completely obvious consequences of their actions.
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I mean as a killer side if you know the survivor is stream sniping you just lobby dodge. However, put a good 5-7 second delay on your stream. If they start going to the places you were not where you are at it is a good sign.
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this reminds me of the whole "deranking is murder" garbage
whenever people have nothing left to say they go "this video game thing is like this terrible real life crime" it's like clockwork i swear
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Let's solve this issue first: how are you going to know for sure that someone stream sniped?
Stream snipers aren't gonna say in the chat that they sniped you.
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Fact of the matter is that unless you only ban people that straight up admit it in some way, the most obvious of the obvious ones and the ones that combine it with text harassment post-game you're in bad idea territory. And when I say obvious I mean someone that shows up in a LARGE amount of a streamer's games, and always either brings a perfect counter-loadout or always brings a mori and always just walks right to the streamer's location at the start of the game and tunnels/camps them to death or something. It's incredibly easy to heavily streamsnipe and avoid making it anywhere that obvious.
The moment someone reviewing reports has to DECIDE if someone is streamsniping and it's not blatantly obvious or they break other rules, you can't really ban for it as it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Just look at stuff like the streamsniping ban controversies in PUBG or the whole Ninja-texting-Epic-live-on-stream drama in Fortnite - it's an incredibly easy scapegoat to blame.
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It's impossible to punish... how would you monitor if someone in your game is watching your stream? And if you put ttv in your nick then it's basically just your own stu... err, silliness paying off.
In any case, I can tell you that I tried it once, and there seems to be a significant delay in the stream, making it actually much more distracting than useful. So there's not even a real issue here.
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Because it's impossible to prove. Therefore, you should take precautions, such as:
- Not making your name a link to your stream. This is the stream sniping equivalent of walking through "bad neighborhoods" wearing your most expensive jewelry.
- Adding a stream delay. Yes, this will make it difficult to interact with your viewers, but it'll also make it impossible for stream snipers to know where you are and what you're doing.
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Some actually admit to it freely and flat out admit they do it just to grief and harass the Streamer.
I’m a mod for a very popular DBD streamer myself, we’ve been dealing with just this issue for days now. I say those kind of people do need to be banned.
Being stream sniped or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s right under the “Harassment and heavy Grieving” category. That if a player knowingly and willingly follows another player from match to match for the sole purpose of ruining their games, it’s a ban offense.
Just because the person is a streamer has no bearing. They should be afforded the same protection as everyone else under this rule.
To those who say “Well they are asking for it by streaming” shame on you. I don’t want to use this analogy, but just as a woman dressing “provocatively” isn’t an open invitation for a man to accost her, a streamer streaming isn’t an open invitation for someone to snipe and ruin their matches, repeatedly.
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@sovererignking my, you're overly dramatic. "Harassment and heavy grieving"? That's when someone tells you you should ######### or talks ######### about your mom, etc. Watching your stream and punishing you for it is dirty, sure, but it's hardly "harassment" or "grieving". And as many have said, one: it's impossible to track and therefore, impossible to ban. Two: it's just not useful. Stream delay makes it useless.
Further, how exactly can someone "knowingly and willingly follow" another? Quitting lobbies until he ends up in yours? That's hard and boring to do, and needs a lot of luck to be successful.
And finally, just a side note: a woman dressing provocatively is not in any way an excuse for someone ######### her. But a woman ACTING provocatively can hardly cry out "I'm being harassed" if she gets snide comments or a little too vehement approaches.
EDIT: interesting, forum seems to censor out the word R*PE. "#########" seems to be no problem though ^^
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on every streamer i get paired with. i'll always ask them " is your stream delayed?, do you have a delay on your stream? ". if yes. i'll go and play with em' cuz they won't get streamsniped easily.
if they said no. i'll just dodge the lobby or create an excuse (if in voice chat or something)
honestly. it's a simple fix yet very effective. just apply a 15-30 secs delay to your stream and you'll usually be fine. (40 secs if ur the gen jockey)
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The twitch player shoud be THANKFUL to me for providing him/her with one more viewer for their channel.... only for one match.... one quick, easy match for me :-D
The only thing that should be bannable is not thank the twitch player afterwards for all the information they provided. Manners are important.
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I was acussed of stream sniping at least 3 times. And i never did it once. I dont watch streams anyway, much less if i want to play myself.
so how can you even prove it happend, since streamers obviously can´t determin if its happening or not?
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Like I said: I always thank the streamer for the information they game me in the post game chat and in their twitch chat (I usually get banned in that last one hahaha)
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Because how can you always prove it? I don't stream at all ever, but some of the teams you face, it feels like they are sniping you, when in reality, they are just very well organized and communicating.
- You cannot prove all snipes, some are blatant, some are not. And some just feel convenient
- It's kinda in the writing, if you stream, people will snipe you, part of the job if you will, whether you like it or not
- It's outta BHVR's control as much as using comms are
- Fake accusations, got plenty of these cause I Mori'd a streamer or whipped em into shape real quick, some can be very egotistical, even worse if they have a toxic following
Far as I am concerned, the streamer can add a delay, or blank things out so the snipers don't know who, what, or when. They have the tools, if they refuse to use them, then they need to get over it.
This isn't the only game. It's gonna happen.
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People seem to think this is a one off random action or people with name tags that are obvious.
This is not the complaint. The issue is some of the larger Streamers and promoters of the game have been under constant attack for a few weeks now. Players are specifically loading up map offerings, counters, toolboxes to break traps, anything they can to disrupt the killer and ruin the stream.
If it was a one off it would be one thing but its 4-5 times a day. This is griefing and abuse and is against TOS.
Other games have added streamer modes and ban snipers when the streamer can show obvious and repetitive abuse with names(account).
You want to protect your FOG Whisper members as they are your face and draw in new blood.
(that said a certain standard needs to be held by FOG whisper members that may not be going on today, different story)
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There's a few reasons.
1: How do you prove it?
Example: A streamer playing survivor accuses the killer of streamsniping because they keep getting spotted.
How do we prove that the killer is streamsniping? Unless the killer popped into their chat and literally told them that they're going to streamsnipe, you can't. And even then, anyone could pretend to be the killer to frame them. We don't want to ban someone just because a streamer claims that they're being sniped, that would be silly.
2: You are asking people to (where applicable).
Now this isn't always the case, but when you are plugging you stream in your name, you're actively inviting people to come watch you- that included the other side that can see your name. You can't ask them to come watch and then get mad at them for watching, that would be silly.
3: Being in the game with somebody is not bannable.
Being in the game with a streamer alone is not against the rules. There's nothing bad there. Now if you decide to use that to grief that person or harass them, then you're still subject to the same rules as everyone else. Streamsniping does not protect you from every other rule.
4: (This is the big one) It's out of our control.
We can only enforce what happens inside the game. We do not have logs of who's watching you on Twitch and a way to link that to their account in-game. It would be a total mess if we decided to ban for that and incredibly easy to frame someone.
Short version, we can't prove it, we don't want to falsely ban someone for it, when you invite people to watch you play the game you are choosing to run that risk, but they're still subject to the rest of the rules. If they're griefing you, report them for that, not for streamsniping.
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I'm not buying the "We can't prove it line".
I think if the same person consistantly shows up in the same stream and ALWAYS has the appropriate counter perks for that person's build, that's pretty flippin' blatant.
But I'm not surprised - how long did it take them to ban "he who must not be named?"
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What if they are set to invisible on Twitch? What if they just use Twitch in an incognito window or log out?
We'd basically be going off of, "You had perks that counter that guy's build, you're banned." If that sounds ridiculous, it's because it would be.
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@Peanits I did like the suggestion above to just hide the names. As a killer you can't go to the twitch stream till after the game. As a survivor sniping you can't tell who the killer is by looking at someone's stream unless you are in a swf and all the outfits match. Which even then is not always gonna be accurate. I would also BAN the use of MLGA it simply is being used to block certain players or figure out your killer. It is no longer used for "I need a ping meter"
As a streamer you can look at the survivors then and then leave the character sheet or something open where it blocks the survivor. So even then they wouldn't know. Something is better than nothing.
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@FrenziedRoach then that is the streamers fault.
They can hide their load out screen... They can hide their perks on screen while streaming.
If a streamer is going to stream their game, they accept that they could be sniped and have to setup their stream accordingly.
I've gotten blamed for stream sniping when I never did... Oooo.. my totem got destroy after I looked at it.. must have been sniped. ######### happens, too bad.
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Hiding names is the most obvious solution and one which should be implemented they could even have random name or number generation in game so players know who they have hooked etc.
At the end of the day stream sniping should not be in the hands of game devs but twitch themselves. Twitch can and should allow streamers to ban people from viewing their stream but as of now they can only stop them chatting. The debate and anger from some posters should really be directed towards Twitch and not any game devs.
As for MLGA they can't ban for it as it does not interfere with the game files. It's a simple java ping tool which has some extra features added. The same can be done with Windows task manager and notepad it just takes more effort.
MLGA soon won't work anyway to block people when dedicated servers are Implemented.
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I dont mind stream snipers, if they need to cheat to win no skin off my back, match will be over shortly.
I take it as a compliment, if they need to watch me to know how to beat me, it proves they cant do it without the help.
win win
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Context, my friend.
I said CONSISTENTLY. If somebody shows up in a stream and occasionally has the right counter build, that can be written off as coincidence.
But if somebody ALWAYS has the right counter build and plays to annoy, that's pretty blatant.
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This is still a big assumption. Say I see OhTofu in my lobby. He runs Head On a lot, like me. If I run Iron Maiden every time I play against him, would I get banned? It would seem really blatant; I watch his stream from time to time, I know what perks he runs.
This is why we don't ban for it.
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Just Omegablink Ebony Mori stream snipers every time they join your game and watch the amount of times you get stream sniped massively decrease.
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Why though? Why go out of your way to ruin someone's experience? Who hurt you?
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Players like that are called griefers, they exist in every online game and thats how they find pleasure, not gonna change any time soon. You can see by the exciutement in their posts they really get off on ruining someones time. Its best to LOL it off and move on, do not provide them with encouragement, if they come in your stream chat just ignore them and ban them, do not engage them.
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This thread just creates a perfect snapshot of the kind of community we've got in DBD. It's full of people who support bad behavior by having a lasse faire attitude about people voicing opinions said behavior. It isn't all the players' fault they act this way though. Lax rules, community figureheads known for promoting bad behavior, and lack of proper oversight has made it this way.
To speak directly to the stream sniping issue, it should be bannable. First off, in many cases it is quite easy to prove for this game. Most of the stream snipers are also streamers who've built audiences off purposely sniping bigger players. A few fog whispers have archived streams where they've actively been contacted by their sniper. On the other side you have situations that Tru3talent experiences. He's got two players that constantly show up to snipe him. Like it has become nearly an everyday occurrence that the same two man SWF will show up in his game having everything necessary to counter whatever killer and build he is doing. Keep in mind he's been doing subscriber builds sent to him in real time. So there isn't a pooled list he's just left up somewhere.
That constant day to day sniping should be bannable under harassment. Like the guys he's dealing with aren't exactly upstanding gamers. They've got previous VAC bans on their accounts and talk about sniping people on their profiles. If you get sniped once or twice by seeming different people that's where it is hard to prove. You have to just sort of accept that every now and then it will happen. When it gets to be a constant every day thing and you can clearly keep track of a steam profile and document it day after day after day that should get you banned.
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This. It's not hard to prove. A Billy found me straight away, face camped me with 5 gens left, and would move into frame, face the camera, and nod whenever I moved my camera. It's not even an "equips perks to hard counter your build thing". I get one or two people every day that go out of their way to ruin a game of mine.
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Even with such "evidence" there will always be coincidences which lead to innocent people being banned. As a streamer, you can use different overlays while you're in a lobby so stream snipers will have a harder time getting in your lobby. You can also hide your steam name or the names of other people in your lobby.
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@FrenziedRoach Also if you are low rank there is a high chance of you getting the same people over and over again around rank 1-3, proably even to 7 but you get it
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