Can you just remove Tiers at this point?
It just unnecessarily lengthens the grind at this point which is honestly really annoying because the more perks you get the harder the grind is. Honestly the grind is getting worse than Legacy because of these tiers imo. What is the point of them anymore anyways? You reworked a ton of perks to be good even at tier one when you could just remove all the tiers instead :/
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glad to see people agree
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Yes!This needs to happen!
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"Worse than Legacy" Mhm...
Hot take here: The entire problem of the "grind" is very much exaggerated.
Especially for Survivors, who have it really easy all things considered. Killer is a different story since you're obligated to go through the unlock process on each and every killer, but Survivors just need to max out a single character and everything else is completely extra.
Bringing any one char to lvl 40 takes no effort anymore. It's not even fair to call it a grind. 50+ all perks takes effort. But if there's a BP event, you can still bring a character from Lvl 0 to P350 in about a week if there's an event going on.
Case in point: there's this one streamer who I love, but it never fails to me amaze me how he complains about the "grind" when a killer comes out because he wants every perk on said killers before he plays them... and yet without fail he has them all maxed out in under a week, in days even, and from there he simply dumps the extra BPs in his other lvl 50 characters for the next two and a half months.
That said, perk tiers are definitely obsolete at this point, considering they're constantly removing all but the tiniest percentages of variation in the tiers with every update.
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My point wasn't about the levels it's more about how perk tiers are obsolete on certain perks and on others it's needed for that perk to be viable for a build. Trying to get a build on a new killer can be a complete pain in the ass because of tier's and can literally take forever.
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New killer comes out, gotta go through 100 bloodwebs to finish a build
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I agree
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Well, the only stuff that im trying to do atm, is to grind all the perks on my p3 nea... Damn, ive spent 6millions of bp already!
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@Science_Guy this is a pretty biased point you threw out there. Killers are no less dependent on access to good perks than survivors. As someone who has leveled both sides I see no difference in the need to frind through the BW for solid perk builds. Heck, I found it easier to do as killer due to the rediculous advantage of BP gain, even taking que times into consideration.
The grind sucks equally across the board. Not everything is killer vs survivor. Much of this game's problems is more player vs design flaws.
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This would make it a lot more friendly to new players so I'm down for it! Hopefully the devs actually see this post.
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Totally agree with that. I've always HATED the grind, it's easily my least favorite thing about this game. You play who knows how many games everyday to save up enough points to go through the bloodweb, HOPING that maybe, just maybe, that one perk you want will be there...just to find that it isn't, and now you're out of points, so now you gotta go play some more, so annoying. As a matter of fact, I've recently been grinding Ghostface to get the next tier version of a couple perks I have for him, but even after at least 2 weeks of grinding, I still don't have them. It just doesn't seem to end, it's more like a job than a game.
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I've been asking for this for a very long time now.
So YES PLEASE
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I would play this game a lot more if they removed perk tiers.
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Totally, yes. But I want a compensation for that like in the first grind cutoff because this grind is even worse and even more frustrating
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Yes plz. This is one of the most annoying things to me. I play a game with BBQ and even then it’s still enough to get roughly a level and a half, so imagine if I didn’t use that.
Also id need to have BBQ in the first place, which we all know how rough RNG can be in bloodwebs.
With the amount of perks coming out in the game, this would actually make the grind bearable.
no more bloodwebs with slippery meat or no mither three times in a row.
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I'd assume since the streamers and youtubers you brought up play the game as an additional source of income, damn near their job I'd say that they're probably putting more time into the game. Which would explain how they have a new killer maxed within a week.
In my case it takes me usually about a week to get a killer to level 50. That's just considering level, not maxing them out. I spent half a week leveling trapper via building and playing simply to farm bp, not necessarily to kill, only to be rewarded with no viable "meta" perks, and only two of the perks I required for the build I wanted to make which was the only reason I leveled him in the first place. The difference being that I'm not able to put nearly as much time into the game as these other people.
Now I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with putting more time into the game but just because someone has the availability to grind longer doesnt mean the grind isn't there. The number one factor to it being the rng, which the tier system for perks just makes even worse.
Do you want to lose one stack of PWYF or four? Do you want PGTW/Haunted Grounds to last for 40 seconds or 60? You're forced to either grind longer or settle for an objectively worse version.
All of this is on top of the fact that the rng may force you to take longer on even obtaining a desired perk.
Case in point i just unlocked tier 1 PGTW on Myers today after leveling him to roughly the equivalent of 75.
TL;DR The grind exists and the tiered perks/rng just extend it in almost the most artificial way possible. It's not fun and doesn't help retain players that can't invest as much time into the game others.
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You completely missed the point.
You only need to do the grind one time as a survivor.There's no reason to fully level up multiple survivors except for pure fun. Each killer needs to be grinded out individually because each killer is completely different.
Also, biased? Towards killers? lol no.
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Are you subtly making the argument that survivors dont need perks?
Because last time I checked there isnt a single survivor that has all second chance perks, exhaustion perks, and healing perks. Not that theyre necessary. I can think an argument can easily be made that if survivors play optimally they dont need perks.
But still im a little confused as to what your argument is.
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I dont want them to remove tiers. What I want them to do is adjust the way you gain them. The easiest and best example being letting us get more perks per bloodweb depending on the level. You could even get two birds with one stone and add more based on prestige level (making prestige something outside of cosmetics).
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I'm not sure about removing tier levels entirely. I think letting us select 2 perks per bloodweb would already be a great improvement.
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I remember when they reduced the grind back then. People got legacy outfits. Maybe the new generation can also get legacy outfits? Maybe a silver based one. That would be amazing.
And YES. All I think about is legacy.
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The longer it takes, the harder it gets...
I dont think that they should remove tier system at all, but decrease tier amount to 2. Something like Ace perks in Payday 2.
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Yeah im all for it lets get rid of tiers
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I did the math in a past post. You need to go through, at the minimum, 150-170 bloodwebs - not even counting getting no perks in a bloodweb for add-ons - for either a single Killer or Survivor. This is assuming you actually have every single perk unlocked from every single Killer and Survivor alike so it includes teachables.
If you include the gaining of teachables before you go through the next 150 levels on a singular character, you’ll be going 40 levels (bare minimum) per character, and there are 15 (I think) Survivors and 17 Killers - 40 x 15 or 17, and then you go the 150-170 levels. Again, none of this counts skipping perks entirely in favour of add-ons.
In short, perk tiers should be removed so we only need to level a character 50-70 times to get all perks on them. Making tier 3 the default takes away as high as two thirds of the level requirement to max characters out, which leaves more points for levelling other characters, and at the same time reduces the workload for the devs when they create new perks.
Edit: My math might be a bit wrong, but my point still stands.
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Agreed! @Peanits @Patricia @not_Queen ??
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But then we have what, 60+ levels? (that is if you unlocked every teachable) And most of perks are infact teachables.
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He's saying that the grind for survivors isn't a big deal because they are all interchangeable. You max out one character that's all you NEED to compete at the highest level. If you want to do that with multiple survivors, that's just extra. Whereas the grind for killers is a lot more necessary, because each killer is different. You need to dump BP into each of them if you want different experiences as killer.
And I agree with him. I main Kate, she is the only survivor I have p3 all perks because there is honestly no point in doing that with another survivor. My Jake is p2 with most perks because I played him before Kate came out, but the rest are just sitting at level 40 and I will NEVER play them unless it's rank reset and I have a daily. I just play Kate ALL the time. That might be boring for some people, but it's just the optimal thing to do if you want to play with a maxed survivor.
However I can acknowledge that the grind for new players is just crazy. To get all 17 survivors to 40 is like almost 20 million BP. For a survivor player that is a LOT. Like I'm a really good high rank survivor. I can average probably 20k a game. That's still like 1000 games just to unlock all the teachables. Then it's going to be another 10 million to max out a character (p3 all perks), so that's another 500 games. At an average of 10 minutes a game, that's already 250 hours of game time to get to the point where someone like me already is at. And it just grows with each new DLC, exponentially so for new players. All I gotta do is dump like 1.2 million into the new character, then maybe 300k into Kate and I'm done. 1.5 million BP is easy to get in a few days.
Killer grind is worse and better in some ways. Worse because of the aforementioned need to do it on every killer you want to play. Better because if you have BBQ you can walk out of every game with 50k consistently (this is WITHOUT BP offerings even considered).
What I think would help everyone is if they made it so that a perk will unlock at the highest tier it was previously unlocked for a character. So if you get say, WGLF 3 before you prestige the new survivor, the NEXT time it shows up in your blood web it's already at tier 3. No need to get tier 1/2 again. That would cut down on the grind significantly.
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