Devs, please reduce the grind
There are currently 125 perks in the game. Each of these have 3 tiers. There are 17 survivors and 16 killers. Each character can prestige 3 times. For all characters to reach prestige 3, will take 125x3x3x33=37125 bloodwebs. Now tell me, how can anyone in their right mind thing bloodpoint gain is currently fine? When the next survivor and killer comes out, this requirement will increase to 131x3x3x35=41265. This is an increase in 4140 bloodwebs. This keeps going every 3 months!
Whatever the average bloodpoint per bloodweb, this is an insane amount of bloodpoints. A rough estimate might be 14 million per character to reach p3 with all perks. To get every current character to p3 all perks, you would have to earn about 175000000, one hundred and seventy-five million. 175m bloodpoints. This number will increase exponentially as new characters and perks are introduced.
New players will have absolutely no chance whatsoever to reach this goal. Players who started in 2016 probably do, and some of the no lifers and streamers out there have all characters with all perks at prestige 3. If you start today however, you will never reach this goal, no matter how much you play, with the current bloodpoint gain.
A new player will not have any offerings or perks to increase bloodpoint gain. A new player is lucky to earn 10k bp from one trial, especially as survivor. If the average gain was 15k bp, he would have to play 11667 games to earn 175m bp. If each game lasts 10 minutes, this would equal 1945 hours.
This is the point where you say 1945 hours is not a lot. That probably means that the estimate of 14 million is in the low ballpark, where it probably costs more to reach p3 all perks. It also shows that bp gain was way rougher when the game launched, and has been improved. Still, having to play close to 2k hours to get all current characters to p3 all perks is way too much. Even if you managed to play 100 hours every month, the goal would be pushed back every time a new survivor or killer is released.
It is now up to the devs to find a solution to this insane grind, other than the odd 2x bp weekend. One commonly proposed solution is to remove perk tiers. If they were to do this, they would have to refund everyone who has leveled them up, else we would have wasted a lot of bp through the years. There probably is a better solution than that. My solution would include removing the bp cap, increasing the category cap and increase bp gain across the board.
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It's so ridiculously dumb to have to grind out the perks on individual characters. I already have Brutal Strength on multiple killers. Why am I grinding out bloodweb after bloodweb to MAYBE get it on Clown? It's a slap in the face to longtime players who pay for content and a turnoff for new players. On top of that, you're forced into getting perks you'll never use, or never see the perk you want due to RNG. Why is it still like this after 3 years? It actively turns people away from the game.
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Couldn't agree more! I've always HATED the insane grind this game has. I have never played a game in my life that is so grindy as this one. I think one thing that would help is to just remove the tier 1 and 2 versions of each perk in the game, and just leave in the tier 3 version, so you get the best possible version of that perk right away, and not have to spend ages grinding to get the next tier version.
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I completely agree with this. I replied to one of the devs' responses about a Double Bloodpoint Event this summer with "Just make the Bloodpoint Gain 1.5x what it is right now to help reduce the grind".
Funnily enough, they also said they'd like to add Devotion Rewards but they're not focusing on it right now, so who knows when they'll arrive, if they ever do.
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They are if you look at the AMA on reddit they answered a question regarding the removal of perk tiers. While that is not the way they want to go they are working on something which is due to be released with the next chapter update.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on2 -
Hello
While 175.000.000 BP sounds like a lot, it is actually managable.
Lets say you play Killer with BBQ and 100% BPs most of the time, it will take about 2300 games to reach that goal. Lets say you can play 3 Games per hour, we are not even at 800 hours. Double BP Events are not included.
800 hours is not that much for someone who is dedicated enough to get every Char to max with all perks... And those who are not should not reach that anyway (if they would, there would not be a lot to do for those who grind).
I play this game since 7 Months, i got 2 Survivor almost maxed out and most killer have 3-4 pages full of perks. Since this is the case, i will be complete in less the 5 months.
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I think the rng on bloodweb perks should be removed. Just level via bloodweb between perks of your choice.
i had to level up 80 times to find dead hard(rank1) on jake. Thats nonsense for me. Its just the bad part of the rng.
i like the grind idea behind UNLOCKING perks and prestiges(which I wouldnt cap) tho.
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The math is a little off. This assumes you unlock 125 tier 3 perks on every single character every time before prestiging, and that's not the case. You can't unlock survivor perks on the killer, for example, and you wouldn't unlock all perks before prestiging. I also wouldn't factor in prestige as it is completely optional and serves no gameplay benefit, it is purely for those who want more stuff to do.
It's a little more like this:
Survivor
40 x 17 = 680 bloodwebs to unlock all survivor teachable perks
65 x 3 - 40 = 155 bloodwebs to unlock all tier 3 perks on a survivor (after unlocking teachable perks)
In total, to max out a survivor: 680 + 155 = 835 bloodwebs
Optional: +150 for prestige 3. Multiply if you want to do this for multiple survivors, though this isn't necessary as they are purely cosmetic.
Killer
40 x 16 = 640 bloodwebs to unlock all killer teachable perks
60 x 3 - 40 = 140 bloodwebs to unlock all tier 3 perks on a killer (after unlocking teachable perks)
In total: 640 + (140 * n), where n is the number of killers you'd like to have all perks on. This is less optional as all killers have unique powers. Assuming you want all of them, that would be 2,240 bloodwebs.
Optional: +150 for prestige 3.
In total, you're looking at 3,075 bloodwebs to get all tier 3 perks on a survivor and every killer, not 37,125.
With that said: We are working on changes to help greatly with this. We should have more details to share soon.
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A compensation for who have every character p3 full perks (me)? I think me and other guys deserve something special for this insane goal
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You can use all the perks on everyone, that's your reward for getting all the perks on everyone. It's a game and you've played a lot, doesn't mean you need "compensation" every time they fix something.
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prestige has no value aside from cosmetics?
I thought it made rare items and addons more common?
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@SpaceCoconut did all the math. It would take aprox. 7 million bloodpoints to get all perks on one character, assuming you start from level one and have already unlocked all teachables.
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And it's actually pretty insulting for someone to ask Matthieu Cote about the grind and he just says that the Archives will bring MORE grind as if that's a good thing.
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@anarchy753 Easy to say when you’re handed something VS having to work with it
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By an incredibly slight amount, yes. Odds are you'll burn more while prestiging than you'll ever get from the prestige bonus.
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I have worked. I have my main survivor and killer both P3 with all the perks maxed out, and I'm still working on P3/50ing all the other killers. That doesn't mean I feel like people deserve 'compensation' for progressing in the game just because a steadily growing grind needs changes.
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Well older players who were around when the grind was really REALLY bad got to keep their exclusive legacy cosmetics. Perhaps something new like that, where if they do reduce the grind all people that prestiged keep their Bloody outfits and the rewards for prestige get replaced like last time.
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WAAAAAH ME WANT PWEASENT
True story: I am exalted with 101 of something like 103 factions in World of Warcraft, because I put in all the insane effort and time over a period of years. I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the reputation grind system is comically stupid for a lot of these reps, and I would in fact support them making it easier for others, or totally overhauling the system, because I know it's not ideal at all, and it would be great for the overall health of the game.
It's no wonder Behaviour gets gun-shy about alleviating grind, with these insane entitled attitudes. Just because you have the patience to put up with the really broken way things are done, doesn't mean it's good, or that you deserve a cookie for it. It is a video game.
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(Also, I would be totally in favor of them overhauling or just FLAT-OUT ELIMINATING a lot of the redundant grind for the good of all. Just GET RID of multiple perk ranks, if there were one rank per perk it would make prestiging more alluring, and it would still mean going through a current minimum of 215 bloodwebs per survivor for P3-50, which is still pretty substantial for a normal-ass adult human being who doesn't play this game 15 hours a day.)
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Tbh I don't think anyone would miss half the perks that are in the game.
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Players in this thread making excuses and rationalizing about oppressive grind, defending it like it's some glorious hill to die on. Man alive, are video games all you have to feel proud of in life or something?
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Perk minimum rank should scale with prestige. At P3 you've already put in 150 levels, start perks in P2 at tier 2, and P3 at tier 3. That way a P3 character only needs ~60 levels to gain all perks rather than 180, where lower prestige still has ranks that that want to keep for some reason unknown to anyone but the people blocking the change.
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@anarchy753 That would be an interesting way to do it, too!! I might seriously consider prestiging characters in a system like that.
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I think that once you unlock a perk in the bloodweb, you can upgarde it to its higher tiers at anytime for a BP cost. Of course, the cost would be more than 4,000/5,000/6,000 to compensate for the levels you would normally have to get to find it, but not that big of an increase. Maybe like 10,000 for tier 2 and 20,000 for tier 3,
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God I wish I could do this.
Devs are so hesitant to ease the grind because they're like !!!!!!!BUT RESEARCH HAS SHOWN PEOPLE WILL STOP PLAYING OUR GAME IF THERE ISN'T A GIANT STUPID ENDLESS PROGRESSION GRIND!!!!!!!!
To which I say, whoa my dudes, you might need to take a look at your game's fundamentals if THAT is your worry. Progression is good, and I think a game like this needs it to some degree (the lack of progression is frankly why I dropped Last Year: The Nightmare after a weekend), but it's just out of control in this game.
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Even if my math is wrong, the grind keeps growing and growing for each survivor and killer released. All I ask is that something is done to make it easier. Makes no sense that the grind should be rougher and rougher for all players every 3 months. Again, this affects new players the most.
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Yeah they're pretty flawed in the logic there. There's constant additions of new characters to level up which increases the grind of every existing one. Even a significant drop in the grind will still continue to grow over time.
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2300 games if you already know how to play, also as you go up in the ranks it gets harder.
Plus some people has a life.
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I only get to play about once a week maybe for a few hours and recently have just got bored of it. After doing some dailies, there just isn't any more incentive because the time it takes to get the perks I need to have fun is so... damned... long. Obviously I am not the target market but there has to be a happy medium.
Everything in moderation... including moderation.
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Peanits' statement above:
With that said: We are working on changes to help greatly with this.
But Peanits' statement as a 3-tiered perk:
With that said: We are working on changes to help greatly/considerably/tremendously with this.
Time to grind this perk to tier 3!
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There is actually one way to deal with this: Your first game of the week gives you something like 50.000 Bloodpoints. But would that make you more happy? Maybe at first, but later you will ask for more.
Like i said, managing 2300 games in DBD is not even really a task for ppl who can play very little every day. This could be done in 800 hours or less. 800 hours in 3 years is not even one game per day. And if you are new to the game, why would you need every single Survivor and every single Killer with all the perks?
Please devs. Ignore this request, we all know how this will go
- We want it quicker
- Now we have it all
- We need more content
- There is 2 little content
- I leave the game... boring...
Soo many games did that mistake and we saw them vanishing.
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This game is not gaining more players than it's losing. Also, you forget to include increasing number of survivors and killers. 800 hrs is the most optimal route, which most players will not take.
Making the game more fun won't ruin the game.
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17 survs, 16 killers tons of perks to unlock and there is 1 question that is bothering me, why the hell you need to max everything out if you dont want to spend time on it xddd
if youre casual player you dont need everything xd get a life, just get teachables you want, get every other character to 30lvl (to not unlock perks you dont want) xd
you dont need to max out every surv (as long as they wont have their own passives or traits they are just skins, just pick 1 or 2 that you will play) xd simillar to killer i doubt you play every killer at least once per month, even if you do why you need every perk on him?? you need your build 4 perks (maybe at most 8) just unlock them xd
simple tip for you guys, unlock bbq, unlock enduring, ruin(if you think you need that) and then lvl up every killer to 30lvl and then lvl up whoever you want xdd you will probably get those 3 perks on every killer so you will be happy xd YOU NEED TO USE BRAIN not ask devs for everything
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I bought hag and got her teachable about a month after she came out.
I then started to practice Nurse.
I remember not getting Ruin at all, not even level 1 until a few blood webs past Prestige 3 lvl. 50
Either way, I got this whole job thing, and can't play for more than 3-5 hours a day give or take. And this isn't the only game I play!
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Its a party game after all, and not something to be taking seriously because its so unbalanced, you may try for a while to get everything and then you probably get burned out and quit playing.
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Take a break, try Civilization.
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Being a casual player in these forums is like Christmas every day.
"Devs, please make an achievement that is only of use if you want to brag about how much you play the game way easier so we can do less but still brag."
Lol
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@Peanits The Dev Team mentioned that the tier should give you at least what you want and tier 3 should be the better version of it. So where's the point of level 2? It's just a senseless filler-tier for back in the days. Removing tier 2 of every perk would help a lot ^^
And it's fair enough. In fact that the amount of bloodwebs will increase more and more. And that's not fun, that's crazy.
But you never listen to newer players.
Or I just have haluzinations. Everytime I see an emotional post from a newer player or people who play the game casual, not asking for balance-related changes. No they ask vor soem quality of life changes to make the game feel better so it can actually grew because it wouldnt scare away any new players anymore.
No, the thing I am reading every time a Dev react to one of these threads is like (the point of the answer) "No, everything is fine, git gud, adapt. But hey buy the game it's cool and if not it's also cool!"
Maybe Im just crazy or high or sth idk but it makes me sad that the devs dont listen to the new players - asking for some QoL changes and not sth crazy like balance-related things, killers, new mechanics what ever.
Idk it makes me sad sometimes. But you know it better, hopefully. I mean you did a pretty good job for core members and veterans, so far.
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Stop complaining. I literally maxed out my Claudette in a week and a half. It’s not that hard just grind it out with done friends. It’s fun and rewarding. Please stop begging for the devs to be your maid and give everything to you on a silver platter. Just stop!
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