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New Status hud's for Whenever a Survivor is Doing a Specific Action
Comments
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Thank you!
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In that case it should be fine...
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As a survivor main I say no to all this. Too much information.
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Bud, there's no such thing as too much information, especially for solo survivors.
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Ok then tell survivors the entire killer's build at the start of the game, where all the gens and totems are, and highlight killer's aura all the time.
Obviously there is such a thing as too much info.
Part of what makes SWF so strong is that you can know what each survivor is doing at any given time. We don't need to boost solo's to SWF levels, we need to put limits on SWF to make it more challenging and make up for the fact you can have comms.
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The purpose for the status hud's is help solo players specifically. You make it seem like players are gonna get every little detail every second which their not, just the main stuff.
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Thank you for understanding!
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Solo players don't need help.
SWF needs limits.
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Solo players don't need help? Yes they do, as a year and a half experienced solo player I can say this is much needed. Also not all swf groups are a bunch of toxic try-hards, it could be just a group of friends who are simply playing for fun.
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The power an SWF team has in someone communicating, "anyone near that hooked Nea? No, I'll get her, stay on your gens" is not something that can be removed. You can't stop them communicating but you can try to level the playing field by letting solos have some of the info the SWfs have.
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Not possible. SWF is mechanically identical to Solo. The differences are not in the form of mechanics, and thus cannot be explicitly addressed through mechanics.
The closest you can get is replicating the benefits through mechanics.
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Deathgarden does this really well.
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Actually it is.
When you play SWF, only 1 instance of each perk is allowed. This means no 2 survivors can have the same perks. It forces team builds, which is what you should be doing anyway as SWF and bolsters the meta with new perks.
The problem with SWF is really that they can stack all the best perks. If everyone uses Adren/DS/BT/DH then you will body every killer you go against. There's no need to use anything else. Every aura perk, every killer tracking perk, every map awareness perk is obsolete with comms. Most perks that provide buffs are semi-obsolete with comms and using items.
This maintains the integrity of the core game and makes SWF about strategy and not pure meta. If you boost solo to SWF level you just continue to break the game. Now killers have to be made more powerful to compensate, which negates the original changes, and you end up with this runaway "buff everything" cycle until the game is unplayable.
So force SWF groups to share, now they have to spread the meta stuff and use other perks. If you play in a smaller group then you are less limited. If you play solo you have no limits.
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Got it. So instead of pushing the SWF button I'm going to get with my friends through the solo que by re-queing.
Now I have the same perk choices as before except it's way more tedious so I also leave a bad steam review while I'm at it.
The issue is that the SWF button isn't the problem and there is nothing forcing people to push it. There are legitimate reasons to reque for all sorts of reasons and trying to oppose artificial limits on people for pushing a button that does nothing but tinker with matchmaking a bit.
VC isn't part if SWF and it doesn't require SWF.
SWF isn't the issue, VC is and you physically can't remove VC.
All you do is make things more annoying for everyone.
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Yes people did that before SWF was a thing in the first place.
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Except that there is a very very easy option of playing SWF. Behavior science would show that even though you could do this most if not all players would just opt for the easier route of doing SWF.
The reason they did it before is because SWF wasn't even an option.
Point is you don't want to give solo survivors more information. The game already pretty much tells you everything when something important happens. If you knew when a gen was being repaired or when a survivor was being chased then you become more efficient, and that just means killers get shafted even more. Again you'd have to buff killers to compensate for it and it just leads to endless back and forth buffs.
The game already tells you when the obsession is being chased and when they are being chase other survivors know they are free to do whatever they want. Imagine that for every survivor and you can see why that's a bad idea.
If they want to give solos more information it needs to be incredibly vague. For example, I'm all for some sort of mechanic that would warn players that the killer is near a hooked survivor. Base Kindred, however, is not the way to do this as it's way too strong to be a base ability. I've suggested before, but if you just make the hooked survivors aura pulsate when they can hear the killer's TR (like a heart beat) that tells you the killer is nearby or camping without explicitly saying how far away or where they are. It's vague, meant to help counter one of the big issues with the game, camping. I could say that maybe there should be some indicator of a chase if a survivor was just unhooked, something to say "this survivor is in peril they need help" but again it needs to be vague enough that you wouldn't know for sure they are being tunneled without seeing it yourself.
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It doesn't matter how shafted these mechanics would make the Killer, because they don't need to be added in isolation.
The entire point is to buff the Survivors in this way so that we can buff the Killer to match.
Right now Survivors in a VC have this information while Solo's do not.
If instead all Survivors had this information, then we could just buff the Killers to be as strong as Survivors who have this information and then all of our problems go away.
Look at death garden for example. You see other scavangers, you see objects that they point out. There is an easy button to notify people that they are being chased, you know exactly how much progress is made, it's very easy to tell what people are doing ect.
No one is complaining about VC in that game because it's a non-issue. Everyone has the information and the Hunter is balanced accordingly.
The only thing we'd need to do here is have a similar level of information while presenting it in a way that doesn't feel quite as informative even if it technically is. Having it be presented in the form of icons rather than actually seeing them do it is a method of accomplishing this factor.
From there we simply buff Killers in general to compensate for this. It honestly particularly matter how so long as it gets done. For example increasing most Killers movement speed. Or maybe decrease how long it takes to do some actions such as breaking stuff. Or maybe just a lot of case by case buffs to Killer powers.
There is nothing wrong with back and forth buffs. Those power boosts in addition to just improving the game in general also give people cool new tools to play around with and are just satisfying to have. It's simply the best method of solving the problem by far, since it's not something you can abuse just by being a little patient. A bandaid solution like what you are suggesting is just counterproductive and makes the issue appear solved when it isn't.
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Killers are strong enough already though. People always say they are weak, it is untrue. If you suck as killer it might seem like they are weak but if you are a good killer most games, even against top tier SWF, is in your control. Every game I've ever lost as killer I can point to specific mistakes I made that cost me the game.
Buffing killers because you buffed solos is not the answer and is exactly the problem I'm talking about with runaway buffing. Not only that, you just make the game EVEN HARDER for new players. Forget the extra info, they have no idea what it means or what to do with it. They will still get bodied, only much harder than before because killers are even better now.
SWF needs limits. That's the only solution that doesn't require drastic changes to the game. Simple = better, and this is the simple solution.
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In order for it to even qualify though it needs to actually work. That just punishes people even when they don't use VC, and doesn't guarantee that people using VC don't go unchecked.
My method has been proven to work with other games. Killers being strong enough now doesn't matter if we are buffing Survivors, since then they WON'T be strong enough. But problems can be solved and balance is the easier to solve problem than just hoping no one cares enough to try and VC with someone in the Solo que.
Heck you could even just VC with strangers right now by sending them discord invites through steam and chatting with them that way. No one has any reason to do that right now because SWF exists and is mechanically identical to Solo's as it should be. But if it's suddenly worse to use SWF then you would expect players to do everything they can to avoid actually pushing the button.
And again, you don't know what the Killer buffs would be either since ANY buff can theoretically solve the imbalance created here, especially since it's deliberate.
Specifically, if we give more high skill options to the Killer then low skill killers will be disproportionately effected, for the exact same reason as low skill survivors.
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I highly encourage you to consider implementing this in the next big patch, because I strongly believe that in doing so will balance the solo & swf scales, allowing you & the team to balance this game out.
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I like it for survivor's, but why do killers need that info as well? knowing when a survivor heals is a like a minor Nurse's, and knowing when a survivor is on a gen is a minor Discordance. would be broken for me to know exactly what every survivor is doing at all times.
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You're right, I'll be sure to change the description. Thanks for the feedback!
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Behaviour, hire this man
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Behaviour: We want to close the gap between solo and SWF.
Players: Here are some ideas on how to provide literally the exact information you would need to close that gap in a meaningful way, using nothing but the existing UI with some additions.
Behaviour: Whoa that's crazy talk, players don't need to know all that.
Really dunno what to say. On one hand, I get the wariness about information overload. But on the other hand, have you played your game?
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They already have indicators....bond, empathy and obsession. And they're not just instant.
As much as I'd love all the information, just knowing the obsession is being chased gives me the free and clear to do whatever I want. If a survivor is hit, I can see them scrambling for their lives with Empathy or if they're healing now. And if I'm close enough with Bond, I can see someone doing a gen or hiding in the corner immersed.
The lack of information, the reason SWF is meh to me is the comms. I'm not going to go against it because people like playing games with friends.
I play solo and enjoy it. Sure SWF would be fun but not really interested in it.
Maybe they can make more perks that give more information like someone just hopped on a gen here or hooks 99'd but at least then it's costing you something to gain that info. Not just a rewrite to how the game gives everyone info.
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All 4 of those are from perks. A SWF team can just not equip those perks and still get their practical benefits while also having room for more non-ally tracking perks.
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Well as I said, I don't really care about SWFs. If anything, I would give the killer the option to disallow them from queueing. At least 3+ survivor. Maybe all. And that's only assuming it wouldn't damage killer queues too much. I'd wait slightly longer if I knew I wasn't about to get reamed by a full squad. Of course there is also the possibility that two duos join, only allow one.
But as for them giving me all the information I need to be as safe as possible, without a perk needed and I get my perk build just seems like added crap for killers to deal with.
Someone also mentioned somewhere about limiting perk builds for SWFs. Limit one per or whatever.
But it's whatever.
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Yeah, chase indicator should be enough.
Its true that new players will still not understand or be able to make full use of all the information we've suggested to be added.
Then again any new mechanic/feature should be added in the tutorials...
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Would love this..
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move this post to the “fan creation” sub forum please
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A chase indicator would be more than enough. Also new players can always ask questions.
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I have an idea for how a chase indicator could be implemented in the HUD. Give every survivor the obsession tendrils that wiggle while in a chase, but make the tendrils a different color for the survivor that is actually the obsession. If there is no obsession, everyone still gets the tendrils, but none of them are a different color.
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This doesn't make sense at all
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the non-obsession players could have white tendrils and the player who is the obsession could have black tendrils, great idea by the way!
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😯
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This would be a big step to bring solo and SWF much closer together. However, it's also a lot of information to add to every game that undeniably buffs survivors a lot more than killer.
If it were to happen, I'd also like to see an extra indicator. Add a little crow above survivors who have not interacted with anything for 30+ seconds. That means no totems, no chases, no gens, just lurking around the map, afk or not.
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What is there to not understand?
Giving this strong piece of information to survivors will need to be compensated on the killer side. Especially considering it might end up buffing solo and both cwf, as those with communication wouldnt need to ask their mates what theyre doing anymore and could focus their attention on other information exchange.
With the current pace of our dear devs, they'd implement this and killers would have to deal with it for up to a few months before they decide to give killers anything in return. IF they get anything in return at all.
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Because the most optimal swf group won't gain anything from that. Only solos will benefit from that. Swf who don't communicate informations are basically solo players. Simple.
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@Raptorrotas - Solos need this buff, it is hard to balance the game when ther are three different levels to balance against.
But yes, if solos get the advantages that CWF groups enjoy, a small killer buff may be required.
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I actually had this same idea recently..the only issue I see with it is if complimented the killers would suffer for months before the devs could bring killers up to the level needed to balance it all out..but killers as I see it are still suffering..the devs just dont seem to know how to get their balancing plan going...
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Yes
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Simply for devs this isn't a big issue: yes, it's a thing to fix, but because this game is balanced around mid level, it's not so much of a problem. They have other priorities.
I agree with you that this should be top level priority, and addressed asap, but they are not working on it right now. An example? Look at the perk "Buckle Up": it's a new perk, so when devs made it they should had in mind what's the main problem of the game ... but no, they included in that perk this "The recovery progress of dying Survivors can be determined by the intensity of their Auras at a distance of up to 48 meters". Now, who was the genius that thought that? This is one of the things that should have been fixed and included in the base core game mechanic. I can understand old perks, some of them have to be reworked, but why introduce a new one with an element that all SWF teams have for free? Why introduce brand new elements to rework, if you know you have to follow another route to solve that problem? Maybe because for them is not a top priority, or maybe because they know it will be solved in 2 years from now, or they aren't working at all on this.
I'm so sad when I think at this, knowing there are big problems and nobody is working on, or working on it so slowly like on Freddy: more than 1 year and half to solve a thing that could be addressed in few weeks, without wasting resources to rework the entire killer gameplay. And even a complete rework, I can understand a couple of months, but not years ... come on. This means that or they are not so well organized, or that it wasn't a top priority, or that the game is so bad implemented that everything they touch they break it.
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Kind of a downer way to see it but..you do have a point
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Can somewhat agree
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