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Why always run Hex: Ruin and NOED?
Answers
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I’ll never make it to rank 1 (as survivor) because I still walk around aimlessly (sometimes) listening to the trees blowing in the wind...Flimflam said:Since devs won't put a secondary objective into the base game these 2 perks have to be used to punish survivors for mindlessly pounding out gens. Otherwise you get <5min games against any survivor team that's actually trying.
(some trials) When I come across Ruin, I’ll just go on a Hex Hunt with the thought of dying but staying alive as long as I can. Immersion will never die!0 -
Monto uses it in a lot of builds and that man is a legendary player. Noed function is too give the killers lacking in instadowns an opportunity at exit gates to thrive or secure the kill. Much like dying light tunneling the obsession will make you a predictable killer. You could let them go and chase someone else but if the survivor copes on to what's happening they will stick to safe gens and powerful loops like the tree area or ironworks building.thesuicidefox said:@Master said:
DS is the "most serious crutch perk" if you wanna call it this way
I never said DS isn't a crutch. Only that NOED is also a crutch. If you need NOED as a killer I'm sorry but you are probably just a bad killer. I've rarely met a really good killer that was using NOED. Why? Because they don't need it.
I see your point that power wise the speed boost and instadown ease of use is making some killers to reliant on it. But its existence is brought on by many killers having zero late game options available aside from extremely conditional perks. Blood warden requires exit gates be open. Remember me is depending on you killing a specific player.0 -
@Zarathos said:
Monto uses it in a lot of builds and that man is a legendary player. Noed function is too give the killers lacking in instadowns an opportunity at exit gates to thrive or secure the kill. Much like dying light tunneling the obsession will make you a predictable killer. You could let them go and chase someone else but if the survivor copes on to what's happening they will stick to safe gens and powerful loops like the tree area or ironworks building.I see your point that power wise the speed boost and instadown ease of use is making some killers to reliant on it. But its existence is brought on by many killers having zero late game options available aside from extremely conditional perks. Blood warden requires exit gates be open. Remember me is depending on you killing a specific player.
Monto also has a habit of killing everyone and NOED never procs. Hell, almost every game where he does a NOED build and it procs HE LET THEM just to proc NOED. I respect Monto, and he is using NOED as part of particularly specific builds for entertainment purposes. But it doesn't change the fact that NOED is a crutch for most players. Even True has admitted NOED is a killer crutch perk. If NOED was somehow a perk that you built up over the early parts of the game it would be fair because at least there is some skill in it. It's not just given to you for failing (purposely or not). That's why I love Remember Me. It's a very underrated killer perk that can reward you greatly for going after an obsession AND it has more value in end game potential than NOED since it extends the game as opposed to just giving the killer some ability that turns survivors immersed. I run Ruin and Remember Me on my killers, with the goal to at least find my obsession once before my totem goes down, and it generally works extremely well. As long as I got at least 3 tokens before Ruin goes down and no gens are done, then it's pretty much GG for the survivors. It really is the best perk to counter DS because if you get hit with DS that's just another token you get. The reason no one uses Remember Me though is because it takes some actual skill to make use of it, where NOED takes 0 skill to make use of it. Arguably even "negative" skill in that it is exclusively a comeback mechanic. Hence why I refer to it as a crutch perk.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on0 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@Zarathos said:
Monto uses it in a lot of builds and that man is a legendary player. Noed function is too give the killers lacking in instadowns an opportunity at exit gates to thrive or secure the kill. Much like dying light tunneling the obsession will make you a predictable killer. You could let them go and chase someone else but if the survivor copes on to what's happening they will stick to safe gens and powerful loops like the tree area or ironworks building.I see your point that power wise the speed boost and instadown ease of use is making some killers to reliant on it. But its existence is brought on by many killers having zero late game options available aside from extremely conditional perks. Blood warden requires exit gates be open. Remember me is depending on you killing a specific player.
Monto also has a habit of killing everyone and NOED never procs. Hell, almost every game where he does a NOED build and it procs HE LET THEM just to proc NOED. I respect Monto, and he is using NOED as part of particularly specific builds for entertainment purposes. But it doesn't change the fact that NOED is a crutch for most players. Even True has admitted NOED is a killer crutch perk. If NOED was somehow a perk that you built up over the early parts of the game it would be fair because at least there is some skill in it. It's not just given to you for failing (purposely or not). That's why I love Remember Me. It's a very underrated killer perk that can reward you greatly for going after an obsession AND it has more value in end game potential than NOED since it extends the game as opposed to just giving the killer some ability that turns survivors immersed. I run Ruin and Remember Me on my killers, with the goal to at least find my obsession once before my totem goes down, and it generally works extremely well. As long as I got at least 3 tokens before Ruin goes down and no gens are done, then it's pretty much GG for the survivors. It really is the best perk to counter DS because if you get hit with DS that's just another token you get. The reason no one uses Remember Me though is because it takes some actual skill to make use of it, where NOED takes 0 skill to make use of it. Arguably even "negative" skill in that it is exclusively a comeback mechanic. Hence why I refer to it as a crutch perk.
This is fine as billy or someone with an instadown but some killers are borderline unplayable without it characters like wraith and freddy simply cannot exert enough map pressure if survivors rush gens and don't do totems. If the game slowed down I'd agree with you. However unless survivors make mistakes these killers will not stand a chance of winning as they simply are too immobile. Some add-ons can help these killer but those add-ons tend to be finite.
Tldr a large portion of the killers in the game aren't proactive enough to be viable and need need noed to punish survivors who rush gens and don't get totems.
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Game can end in less than 8 minutes without ruin against pro survivors. So yeah, that's why peeps run ruin. Survivors have the upperhand even without using any perks most of the time.
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You said freddy, he is end game strong so yeh. Insidious I use at random on freddy only for fun to see all auras. But it is mostly a dead perk, freddy does not have time go waste standing still. Certain maps you can maybe end game sweep without over altruism and noed, but when the doors are far from each other, billy or not that door is getting open, and peeps are leavingTheTimeMachine said:@Tsulan Yes WITHOUT Hex: Ruin every single game. It’s surprising I know, and challenging to pull off; But once you master time and health state management (obviously chases/mind games), “gen-rushing” is much more combatable.
With The Nightmare, you have to know when to just dream sleep ‘em all and when NOT to (rarely). Various perks can mind game them, and help track.
Insidious works sometimes too.
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Meanwhile, Self Care is on every survivor who has popped it in the web. and most of then are running Sprint Burst, and there's at least 1 person with Abusive Strike in every trial.
Survivors don't give us quarter, why should we give it in return?
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@Zarathos said:
This is fine as billy or someone with an instadown but some killers are borderline unplayable without it characters like wraith and freddy simply cannot exert enough map pressure if survivors rush gens and don't do totems. If the game slowed down I'd agree with you. However unless survivors make mistakes these killers will not stand a chance of winning as they simply are too immobile. Some add-ons can help these killer but those add-ons tend to be finite.Tldr a large portion of the killers in the game aren't proactive enough to be viable and need need noed to punish survivors who rush gens and don't get totems.
Dude I see Billy's and Nurse's run NOED all the time, and it's always because they are pure ass at being killer. It's a crutch. Buff those killers and people will STILL use NOED because they are bad. It's almost like clockwork, bad killer barely gets 2 hooks all game and then suddenly NOED. I've played against good killers, any killer, and they don't use NOED let alone need it. The perk is there exclusively to help bad killers, just like DS is there to help bad survivors.
Sorry it doesn't matter how low tier your character is or how bad of a killer you are, the game should not give you insta-down hits for failing. It's a comeback mechanic, pure and simple, and all comeback mechanics are designed to make bad players win when they shouldn't.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
You said freddy, he is end game strong so yeh. Insidious I use at random on freddy only for fun to see all auras. But it is mostly a dead perk, freddy does not have time go waste standing still. Certain maps you can maybe end game sweep without over altruism and noed, but when the doors are far from each other, billy or not that door is getting open, and peeps are leavingIMO Freddy has more potential as gen stalling early game. Do Ruin, Thanatophobia, Dying Light with Black Box and green/pink mori, kill obs in the first 60 seconds of the game, and then you basically ensure the game will last at least another 10 minutes, which with only 3 survivors is pretty much a guaranteed 4k. DL is insanely powerful on Freddy because of Black Box, as he is literally the only killer than can go right to the obsession when the game starts. I personally find playing endgame strat with Freddy to be high risk since he has to wait 7 seconds for anything. The only way it works is if you have 6 tokens of Remember Me and everyone is asleep when the gates are powered. If someone is awake or you don't have full tokens it will prolly be GG for you. Maybe if they buffed Blood Warden to always block the exit when you hook someone after they are open, or if they extend the time to like 90s for tier 3, but right now all Freddy can rely on is Remember Me for endgame. Early game is a lot safer and IMO easier to do, it's just most costly (since you have to use both a pink add-on and a mori).
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i've also seen billys with NOED. it was weird as #########.... i main billy and i'm not good with a saw BUT i deal with it. NOED on a billy is just cancer. NOED is for trappers and wraiths and such....
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How often did you play as killer in high rank? Game can end in less than 8 minutes. A pro survivor can easily be chased from most killers for 3-4 minutes. Guess how many gens get done? Then the pick up time, time to go to hook, and forget about it if you get hit by a d strike without being nurse or clown. Noed isn't guaranteed like sprint burst and d strike. Sprint burst gurantees safety for a competent survivor, pro players hit d strike skill checks like it's nothing. If you understand how time is stacked heavily against killers at the moment, you would understand. I'm a survivor main saying this. In my rank, before emblems made it where more people got to rank 1, if the killer was not a nurse and chased survivors, at least two gens would get down per down often. If you do the math of all the actions and average chase time, killers are at a disadvatage. Noed peeps usually still get pallet looped unless survivors are caught in bad area. Ruin and noed helps the killer with kills and time. Billy still gets looped even with his saw, nurse can still be mindgamed. Swf also ups the difficulty since game was made not with the affects of it in mind, swf was put in later. It was supposed to be all randoms to keep the fear up and uncertainty there.thesuicidefox said:@Zarathos said:
This is fine as billy or someone with an instadown but some killers are borderline unplayable without it characters like wraith and freddy simply cannot exert enough map pressure if survivors rush gens and don't do totems. If the game slowed down I'd agree with you. However unless survivors make mistakes these killers will not stand a chance of winning as they simply are too immobile. Some add-ons can help these killer but those add-ons tend to be finite.Tldr a large portion of the killers in the game aren't proactive enough to be viable and need need noed to punish survivors who rush gens and don't get totems.
Dude I see Billy's and Nurse's run NOED all the time, and it's always because they are pure ass at being killer. It's a crutch. Buff those killers and people will STILL use NOED because they are bad. It's almost like clockwork, bad killer barely gets 2 hooks all game and then suddenly NOED. I've played against good killers, any killer, and they don't use NOED let alone need it. The perk is there exclusively to help bad killers, just like DS is there to help bad survivors.
Sorry it doesn't matter how low tier your character is or how bad of a killer you are, the game should not give you insta-down hits for failing. It's a comeback mechanic, pure and simple, and all comeback mechanics are designed to make bad players win when they shouldn't.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
How often did you play as killer in high rank? Game can end in less than 8 minutes. A pro survivor can easily be chased from most killers for 3-4 minutes. Guess how many gens get done? Then the pick up time, time to go to hook, and forget about it if you get hit by a d strike without being nurse or clown. Noed isn't guaranteed like sprint burst and d strike. Sprint burst gurantees safety for a competent survivor, pro players hit d strike skill checks like it's nothing. If you understand how time is stacked heavily against killers at the moment, you would understand. I'm a survivor main saying this. In my rank, before emblems made it where more people got to rank 1, if the killer was not a nurse and chased survivors, at least two gens would get down per down often. If you do the math of all the actions and average chase time, killers are at a disadvatage. Noed peeps usually still get pallet looped unless survivors are caught in bad area. Ruin and noed helps the killer with kills and time. Billy still gets looped even with his saw, nurse can still be mindgamed. Swf also ups the difficulty since game was made not with the affects of it in mind, swf was put in later. It was supposed to be all randoms to keep the fear up and uncertainty there.I'm rank 1 survivor, was as high as rank 7 killer (currently 10 because I started to main Huntress and have not played much killer this season until I got good perks for her recently). I'm fully aware of how fast a game can go. 99% of the time when I face a GOOD killer they do not have NOED and still manage a 3k most of the time. Only when the game goes south early on do killers like that lose (eg. surv spawns by Ruin, Entity picks ######### map for killer no offering, etc.). 99% of the time when I face a BAD killer they have NOED, and you can tell they are bad because they don't catch anyone the entire game until NOED procs. That is often their first and only kill. The good killers don't need NOED, even for those games that go south they can still get legit kills if you don't keep the pressure on them. Bad killers it doesn't matter, I can take my sweet ass time doing gens, and I try to do all the totems but when you are solo it's hard to stop other survs from doing gens before totems are gone.
You can give me whatever nonsense you want about how killers get looped, NOED is still a crutch. No matter how you slice it, how much you butter it up, IT IS A CRUTCH BECAUSE IT IS THERE FOR BAD KILLERS. NOED might not be guaranteed, but it is still a comeback mechanic which by virtue of what they do make them crutches.
Also PS, I have NOED on my killers I do play and I don't use it because I'm not going to rely on a crutch. I take my L's, sometimes I wish I did have a NOED at the end, but if I did then I wouldn't become a better killer. I'd just stay where I'm at because I'm constantly relying on NOED to make up the difference for me. I use Remember Me instead, because 1) it's more reliable than NOED, and 2) it actually takes some skill and effort on the part of the killer. The game doesn't just give you 30 seconds on the gate, you have to earn it.
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I main freddy, i know the black box combo been using that since day of release, I use class photo to gurantee a four man with the tracking, watch one of them wake up just to sleep them for tracking to prevent a four man. That's a play once again that is freddy specific, not a case for other killers to not run noed, black box isn't guaranteed in the beginning so class photo is a great companion to find the obsession, that still would rely on ruin, a competent survivor would know to go to a loop spot asap.thesuicidefox said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
You said freddy, he is end game strong so yeh. Insidious I use at random on freddy only for fun to see all auras. But it is mostly a dead perk, freddy does not have time go waste standing still. Certain maps you can maybe end game sweep without over altruism and noed, but when the doors are far from each other, billy or not that door is getting open, and peeps are leavingIMO Freddy has more potential as gen stalling early game. Do Ruin, Thanatophobia, Dying Light with Black Box and green/pink mori, kill obs in the first 60 seconds of the game, and then you basically ensure the game will last at least another 10 minutes, which with only 3 survivors is pretty much a guaranteed 4k. DL is insanely powerful on Freddy because of Black Box, as he is literally the only killer than can go right to the obsession when the game starts. I personally find playing endgame strat with Freddy to be high risk since he has to wait 7 seconds for anything. The only way it works is if you have 6 tokens of Remember Me and everyone is asleep when the gates are powered. If someone is awake or you don't have full tokens it will prolly be GG for you. Maybe if they buffed Blood Warden to always block the exit when you hook someone after they are open, or if they extend the time to like 90s for tier 3, but right now all Freddy can rely on is Remember Me for endgame. Early game is a lot safer and IMO easier to do, it's just most costly (since you have to use both a pink add-on and a mori).
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End game freddy works with stacks on remember me @5 or 6, and photo to sleep everyone. Noed a must for end game build because self care is a staple which serves as a soft counter0
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I never said it wasn't a crutch, same for mindless sprint burst and d strike and selfcare. Few killers can keep that much pressure without running ruin or noed. Ruin is crutch in a way as it buys time. The only killers that can possibly do well without either and without a gimicky set up of dying light, is billy, nurse. Clown is great, but doesn't have the movement to not use ruin.thesuicidefox said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
How often did you play as killer in high rank? Game can end in less than 8 minutes. A pro survivor can easily be chased from most killers for 3-4 minutes. Guess how many gens get done? Then the pick up time, time to go to hook, and forget about it if you get hit by a d strike without being nurse or clown. Noed isn't guaranteed like sprint burst and d strike. Sprint burst gurantees safety for a competent survivor, pro players hit d strike skill checks like it's nothing. If you understand how time is stacked heavily against killers at the moment, you would understand. I'm a survivor main saying this. In my rank, before emblems made it where more people got to rank 1, if the killer was not a nurse and chased survivors, at least two gens would get down per down often. If you do the math of all the actions and average chase time, killers are at a disadvatage. Noed peeps usually still get pallet looped unless survivors are caught in bad area. Ruin and noed helps the killer with kills and time. Billy still gets looped even with his saw, nurse can still be mindgamed. Swf also ups the difficulty since game was made not with the affects of it in mind, swf was put in later. It was supposed to be all randoms to keep the fear up and uncertainty there.I'm rank 1 survivor, was as high as rank 7 killer (currently 10 because I started to main Huntress and have not played much killer this season until I got good perks for her recently). I'm fully aware of how fast a game can go. 99% of the time when I face a GOOD killer they do not have NOED and still manage a 3k most of the time. Only when the game goes south early on do killers like that lose (eg. surv spawns by Ruin, Entity picks ######### map for killer no offering, etc.). 99% of the time when I face a BAD killer they have NOED, and you can tell they are bad because they don't catch anyone the entire game until NOED procs. That is often their first and only kill. The good killers don't need NOED, even for those games that go south they can still get legit kills if you don't keep the pressure on them. Bad killers it doesn't matter, I can take my sweet ass time doing gens, and I try to do all the totems but when you are solo it's hard to stop other survs from doing gens before totems are gone.
You can give me whatever nonsense you want about how killers get looped, NOED is still a crutch. No matter how you slice it, how much you butter it up, IT IS A CRUTCH BECAUSE IT IS THERE FOR BAD KILLERS. NOED might not be guaranteed, but it is still a comeback mechanic which by virtue of what they do make them crutches.
Also PS, I have NOED on my killers I do play and I don't use it because I'm not going to rely on a crutch. I take my L's, sometimes I wish I did have a NOED at the end, but if I did then I wouldn't become a better killer. I'd just stay where I'm at because I'm constantly relying on NOED to make up the difference for me. I use Remember Me instead, because 1) it's more reliable than NOED, and 2) it actually takes some skill and effort on the part of the killer. The game doesn't just give you 30 seconds on the gate, you have to earn it.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Zarathos said:
This is fine as billy or someone with an instadown but some killers are borderline unplayable without it characters like wraith and freddy simply cannot exert enough map pressure if survivors rush gens and don't do totems. If the game slowed down I'd agree with you. However unless survivors make mistakes these killers will not stand a chance of winning as they simply are too immobile. Some add-ons can help these killer but those add-ons tend to be finite.Tldr a large portion of the killers in the game aren't proactive enough to be viable and need need noed to punish survivors who rush gens and don't get totems.
Dude I see Billy's and Nurse's run NOED all the time, and it's always because they are pure ass at being killer. It's a crutch. Buff those killers and people will STILL use NOED because they are bad. It's almost like clockwork, bad killer barely gets 2 hooks all game and then suddenly NOED. I've played against good killers, any killer, and they don't use NOED let alone need it. The perk is there exclusively to help bad killers, just like DS is there to help bad survivors.
Sorry it doesn't matter how low tier your character is or how bad of a killer you are, the game should not give you insta-down hits for failing. It's a comeback mechanic, pure and simple, and all comeback mechanics are designed to make bad players win when they shouldn't.
Obviously on nurse and billy its pointless it actually make the killer easier to deal with as the nurse wont be using devour hope or additional gen stalling perks. You have to remember noed is taking up a perk slot. I would prefer a noed nurse to one with pop goes the weasel or make your choice. Survivours like yourself push for this idea that noed is a crutch perk not realizing your contributing to a stagnant meta of nurse and billy. Fk me is billy a crutch killer? He has an instadown so poor time management is developed whilst playing him. Is nurse a crutch killer teaching killers to ignore pallet mechanics. Seriously your argument is ridiculous.
Sometimes in a game you need to shore up your weaknesses instead of enhancing your strengths. This breeds unpredictability and as a killer that how you get survivor mistakes you can capitalize on. Hell this strategy got me to rank 1 when i decided to play myers instead of the top 3 killers. No one was prepared for a zero terror radius myers with nurses and as a result were utterly annihilated. In the end a four man or 2 man kill is a kill. Who cares how you achieved victory as long as your not cheating. Lord knows survivors need variety and having killers like pig and trapper see high tier play with the help of these perks is a healthy position for this game.
Remember this comeback mechanic is being used on killers who have extremely low comeback potential when behind. The nurse and billy can comeback from the game much easier due to high mobility. Same cannot be said about others.
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@thesuicidefox said:
@Dabrownman1812 said:
You said freddy, he is end game strong so yeh. Insidious I use at random on freddy only for fun to see all auras. But it is mostly a dead perk, freddy does not have time go waste standing still. Certain maps you can maybe end game sweep without over altruism and noed, but when the doors are far from each other, billy or not that door is getting open, and peeps are leavingIMO Freddy has more potential as gen stalling early game. Do Ruin, Thanatophobia, Dying Light with Black Box and green/pink mori, kill obs in the first 60 seconds of the game, and then you basically ensure the game will last at least another 10 minutes, which with only 3 survivors is pretty much a guaranteed 4k. DL is insanely powerful on Freddy because of Black Box, as he is literally the only killer than can go right to the obsession when the game starts. I personally find playing endgame strat with Freddy to be high risk since he has to wait 7 seconds for anything. The only way it works is if you have 6 tokens of Remember Me and everyone is asleep when the gates are powered. If someone is awake or you don't have full tokens it will prolly be GG for you. Maybe if they buffed Blood Warden to always block the exit when you hook someone after they are open, or if they extend the time to like 90s for tier 3, but right now all Freddy can rely on is Remember Me for endgame. Early game is a lot safer and IMO easier to do, it's just most costly (since you have to use both a pink add-on and a mori).
Very specific build requires a mori. It also a really cheesy strat that focus your attention on a single survivor. You better hope there not good at stealth or are not extremely good loopers with an swf team behind them because if that's the case your screwed. Also a bad habit to focus a single survivor down its a really bad to tunnel in higher ranks as they will stick heavily loopable spots like shacks and buildings. Fun as a meme build but reinforces terrible play. Tunneling is really bad as I repeatedly mentioned it makes the killer predictable. Predictability breeds weakness which survivors will exploit. People like tyde and monto have run build like these and even with moris the strat is extremely hard to execute as the survivor is made aware they are being targeted. Also class photo is way better then black box as you can continue to track your obsession throughout the match. Look up any tyde,monto video on these builds it usually gets virtually no use.
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Word, you can see them get woken up, freddy's qorld is dark so a claudy and the new dark cosmetics can be hidden well so photo is great. The tunnel obsession ######### also relies on survivors to not spawn together, not have access to a loop which is hard cause most run sprint burst. Remember me is more reliable, a late game dying light isn't as affective. Lower ranks the hardcore tunnel dying light could work. Dying light if it goes off with 2 gens and three survivors left is not really effective. Swf can also help butcher this build, awake survivors can body block obsession no penalty.Zarathos said:@thesuicidefox said:
@Dabrownman1812 said:
You said freddy, he is end game strong so yeh. Insidious I use at random on freddy only for fun to see all auras. But it is mostly a dead perk, freddy does not have time go waste standing still. Certain maps you can maybe end game sweep without over altruism and noed, but when the doors are far from each other, billy or not that door is getting open, and peeps are leavingIMO Freddy has more potential as gen stalling early game. Do Ruin, Thanatophobia, Dying Light with Black Box and green/pink mori, kill obs in the first 60 seconds of the game, and then you basically ensure the game will last at least another 10 minutes, which with only 3 survivors is pretty much a guaranteed 4k. DL is insanely powerful on Freddy because of Black Box, as he is literally the only killer than can go right to the obsession when the game starts. I personally find playing endgame strat with Freddy to be high risk since he has to wait 7 seconds for anything. The only way it works is if you have 6 tokens of Remember Me and everyone is asleep when the gates are powered. If someone is awake or you don't have full tokens it will prolly be GG for you. Maybe if they buffed Blood Warden to always block the exit when you hook someone after they are open, or if they extend the time to like 90s for tier 3, but right now all Freddy can rely on is Remember Me for endgame. Early game is a lot safer and IMO easier to do, it's just most costly (since you have to use both a pink add-on and a mori).
Very specific build requires a mori. It also a really cheesy strat that focus your attention on a single survivor. You better hope there not good at stealth or are not extremely good loopers with an swf team behind them because if that's the case your screwed. Also a bad habit to focus a single survivor down its a really bad to tunnel in higher ranks as they will stick heavily loopable spots like shacks and buildings. Fun as a meme build but reinforces terrible play. Tunneling is really bad as I repeatedly mentioned it makes the killer predictable. Predictability breeds weakness which survivors will exploit. People like tyde and monto have run build like these and even with moris the strat is extremely hard to execute as the survivor is made aware they are being targeted. Also class photo is way better then black box as you can continue to track your obsession throughout the match. Look up any tyde,monto video on these builds it usually gets virtually no use.
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If they removed the slow down of paint brush that would be great. Brush and monitor and abuse is great...if there is no slow lol.0
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“Most of the time” if it’s a good team of survivors though. I myself admit that sometimes, I only survive because of being selfish sometimes. Just because I have a “fair-middlin” tanking is because I have certain instincts.Dabrownman1812 said:Game can end in less than 8 minutes without ruin against pro survivors. So yeah, that's why peeps run ruin. Survivors have the upperhand even without using any perks most of the time.
I mean, not every trial consists of rank 1 SWF/teamspeak teams. But it doesn’t stop Most Killers from playing like it. It’s... predictable.0 -
Does it not seem like we’re getting stuck in a weird place though? Survivors “forced” to play the best way in order to counter the Killer’s best way, and vice versa.FrenziedRoach said:Meanwhile, Self Care is on every survivor who has popped it in the web. and most of then are running Sprint Burst, and there's at least 1 person with Abusive Strike in every trial.
Survivors don't give us quarter, why should we give it in return?
Now of course, players can still play whatever way they want, and some/most can still have fun. But playing “your way” sometimes won’t give you good results most of the time; And based upon the Community threads and reactions, we seem frustrated.0 -
Ruin should be baked into the game, and NOED and Decisive Strike could both be removed. I honestly don't think one-hit down mechanics should really exist, especially at the spam-tacular levels that Hillbilly and Leatherface have them, but they're going to keep existing as long as this back-and-forth balance goes on.
The core game needs to change on both sides. Killers shouldn't feel like they're at the mercy of how long Ruin lasts, or a last resort NOED proc. Survivors don't need Decisive Strike to stay alive. The whole reason DS is even hated is because a killer works for his down, and then you get away with no risk to anyone else, and that wouldn't be a problem if the time killers sometimes invest into getting that down wasn't obscene.
Sprint Burst is definitely too strong compared to its competitors, and Vigil just makes it absolutely broken, but a weak Bloodlust mechanic isn't helping killers, either.
So much should change...
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Until the devs do something about gens being completed so fast because ruin is a needed perk at the ranks of 5-1... I don't wanna see the devs just make gens longer though add in objectives... make checkpoints on the gens and then have them have to find a part or gas... make 1 out of the 5 gens 1 that you can't fix and it constantly explodes until the killer kicks it and the survivor has to find they need to repair the gen... now my only problem with this idea is how does this effect Billy and Nurse games... either way something needs to be done about the genrush tactic... maybe only have 2 objectives that can't be ignored such as finding parts or gas that a gen needs... because if there were 5 side objectives that could take some time finding the items you need a billy or nurse would actually be broken maybe.. Thoughts?
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The thing that people forget about noed is that its 100% preventable. Its a mindgame perk.thesuicidefox said:@The_Manlet said:
@thesuicidefox said:
Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
Survivors have tons of crutch perks outside of Decisive Strike. Self-Care and Sprint Burst both completely change the way the game is played and Adrenaline is the survivor equivalent of NOED.
I'm not disagreeing with you. But even as a killer you have to admit NOED is a crutch. Probably the only crutch killer perk, but still a crutch.
Sprint Burst is only a crutch when it triggers multiple times in a chase. I've managed to escape a lot of chases just by the luck it triggered at the right time, it was definitely helping me when I should have been dead. The exhaustion update should fix that, though I do think Vigil should allow you to recover from Exhaustion while running if at least at a reduced amount.
Self Care is almost a necessary perk, to the point it almost should be a based survivor ability. The only time it becomes a crutch is when you pair it with other crutch perks like DS or BT (which IMO isn't really a crutch on it's own but it is when combined with SC). The SC change sounds so convoluted, like all the solutions we have gotten so far. I don't get why Self Care can only have a limited number of uses unless you have a medkit in your hand in which case it would be infinite (SC use is infinite not the medkit).
Only thing I would change about Adrenaline is that it only triggers during the period when the gates are powered. If you are hooked then getting unhooked shouldn't proc Adrenaline after the fact.
Do you rush the gens and hope the killer doesnt have noed? Do you not rush the gens and instead look for totems just in case he has it?
The choice is the survivor's. If they gamble and lose its their own fault when they have a surefire way of preventing it.0 -
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Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.Master said:
The only difference is that noed can be counteredthesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
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Self-Care, while I don’t use it is just a perk everybody is going to use. Almost every killer at high rank uses BBQ, same with survivors and self-care. It isn’t a CRUTCH perk and neither is Sprint Burst. Adrenaline is not the survivor equivalent of NOED. How is it? NOED is an insta down for the REST of the game and Adrenaline is a 3-5 second sprint burst while recovering a health state, they have nothing in common.The_Manlet said:@thesuicidefox said:
Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
Survivors have tons of crutch perks outside of Decisive Strike. Self-Care and Sprint Burst both completely change the way the game is played and Adrenaline is the survivor equivalent of NOED.
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@MegMain98 said:
Self-Care, while I don’t use it is just a perk everybody is going to use. Almost every killer at high rank uses BBQ, same with survivors and self-care. It isn’t a CRUTCH perk and neither is Sprint Burst. Adrenaline is not the survivor equivalent of NOED. How is it? NOED is an insta down for the REST of the game and Adrenaline is a 3-5 second sprint burst while recovering a health state, they have nothing in common.The common thread they have with NOED is they cover up mistakes you made in the game, that is the very epitome of a crutch if we're going to use the same argument against NOED.
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@Tombstone218 said:
@TheTimeMachine said:
I was once a rank 1 Killer, and always played off-meta; But now that I’ve decided to play more survivor, I’ beginning to feel how boring it gets when just about every Killer runs the same perks. It’s tiring.
What are your thoughts? Do you (any rank Killer players) feel that these perks are such a necessity? Have you made it to rank 1 without heavy use of these perks.
I’m seriously considering coming out of retirement to show these new age Killers how it’s done.
guys be careful he's going to show us new age killers how it's done
i cant wait to learn what this master killer has to say to us.
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Who hits DS? It’s very difficult to hit DS with the Doctor. Sometimes it is even hard with the Trapper who usually has unnerving. I’ve gotten better at the DS skill checks which in turn have made it easier for the overcharge skill checks. It’s just the Doctor is really difficult to nail even the regular generator skill checks due to the screen shaking, especially if the skill check bar is in the four o’ clock position. Not impossible to hit but it is unlikely unless you’re really used to playing against the Doctor.Hillbilly420 said:@MegMain98 said:
Master said:
thesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
The only difference is that noed can be countered
Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.
I have actually. They still hit their DS.
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I don't use NOED but you literally stand no chance if you don't have Ruin.
Ruin is easily the most required perk in the game. If you don't have it, forget thinking you're going to ever win.
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Two killers who aren't the best or mid tier probably in the current meta. Most pro players hit their d strike. All of the killers perks are counterable, even noed, nurses, bbq. Bbq can be played really hard against the killer with mind games especially if killer isn't nurse or billy. The survivors perks? Survivors have control over the activation and effectiveness of their perks and the killer's perks, more than the killer having control over maximizing the effectiveness of their own perks.MegMain98 said:
Who hits DS? It’s very difficult to hit DS with the Doctor. Sometimes it is even hard with the Trapper who usually has unnerving. I’ve gotten better at the DS skill checks which in turn have made it easier for the overcharge skill checks. It’s just the Doctor is really difficult to nail even the regular generator skill checks due to the screen shaking, especially if the skill check bar is in the four o’ clock position. Not impossible to hit but it is unlikely unless you’re really used to playing against the Doctor.Hillbilly420 said:@MegMain98 said:
Master said:
thesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
The only difference is that noed can be countered
Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.
I have actually. They still hit their DS.
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Noed can be negated entirely. Also, they kind of are, get scared, sprint burst to a loop. No thinking, just a button.MegMain98 said:
Self-Care, while I don’t use it is just a perk everybody is going to use. Almost every killer at high rank uses BBQ, same with survivors and self-care. It isn’t a CRUTCH perk and neither is Sprint Burst. Adrenaline is not the survivor equivalent of NOED. How is it? NOED is an insta down for the REST of the game and Adrenaline is a 3-5 second sprint burst while recovering a health state, they have nothing in common.The_Manlet said:@thesuicidefox said:
Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
Survivors have tons of crutch perks outside of Decisive Strike. Self-Care and Sprint Burst both completely change the way the game is played and Adrenaline is the survivor equivalent of NOED.
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First part is why to ruin, the second part is why run noed. thanks generator jake
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Sprint Burst is not a crutch perk, none of the exhaustion perks are crutch and even if they were who cares? People are gonna use them regardless because they are the perks that work the best. BBQ, Ruin, Nurses Calling, Brutal Strength, Enduring, and Devour Hope are the most used killer perks because they work. Same goes for Self-Care, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Urban Evasion, and Decisive Strike on the survivors side. If you’re a great killer you wouldn’t have to ######### over any of the perks, the ONLY survivor perk that is a true crutch is Decisive Strike because it counters a mistake the survivor made. If Sprint Burst is a crutch then so is BBQ.Dabrownman1812 said:
Noed can be negated entirely. Also, they kind of are, get scared, sprint burst to a loop. No thinking, just a button.MegMain98 said:
Self-Care, while I don’t use it is just a perk everybody is going to use. Almost every killer at high rank uses BBQ, same with survivors and self-care. It isn’t a CRUTCH perk and neither is Sprint Burst. Adrenaline is not the survivor equivalent of NOED. How is it? NOED is an insta down for the REST of the game and Adrenaline is a 3-5 second sprint burst while recovering a health state, they have nothing in common.The_Manlet said:@thesuicidefox said:
Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
Survivors have tons of crutch perks outside of Decisive Strike. Self-Care and Sprint Burst both completely change the way the game is played and Adrenaline is the survivor equivalent of NOED.
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Bbq is not guaranteed, sprint burst is. I'm a survivor main saying this. I lose killere by using bbq against them. D strike is a perk that needs nerfing, devs didnt consider impact of 4 of them in a game same for bnp. Sprint burst isn't crutch, but it's on the side of it due to how powerful it is. You can't be a high rank if you think bbq is a crutch. Survivor perks d strike and sprint burst have low risk high reward in terms of gameplay viability. Bbq and chilli only comes close to the risk reward rate when on a nurse/billy kit. A survivor should play assuming the killer has the meta perks and therefore almost completely counter them, assume they have nurses, bbq, noed. The only killer that isn't bothered by d strike (from an obsession) is the clown with enduring on his kit.
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Killers0
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Bbq works in a range outside of 40 meters, walk in one direction for 4 seconds then change direction, hide within 40 meters. Done. When another survivor is injured, you should be planning your position. When a killer leaves a chase in the end game after gates are powered and the person they chased are injured to chase a healthy survivor, they have noed0
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They also changed survivor auras to match gen auras a bit so you can hide behind gens
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
They also changed survivor auras to match gen auras a bit so you can hide behind gensYour asking "those" survivors to have an actual thought about how to inteligently play the game.
YOU ARE ASKING TOO MUCH MAN TOO MUCH.
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Forgot most use the easy button, my bad lolpauloandrade22 said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
They also changed survivor auras to match gen auras a bit so you can hide behind gensYour asking "those" survivors to have an actual thought about how to inteligently play the game.
YOU ARE ASKING TOO MUCH MAN TOO MUCH.
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I personally have started playing the game where I sit infront of ruin the entire game and force low ranking survivors to learn how to just do the gens and not run around for 8 minutes trying to find the totem when you can easily just do a gen...
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Game can end in less than 5 minutes while ruin is up, yesterday I was throwing away some bnp and it turned out that my whole team had the same ideaDabrownman1812 said:Game can end in less than 8 minutes without ruin against pro survivors. So yeah, that's why peeps run ruin. Survivors have the upperhand even without using any perks most of the time.
The NOED ruin nurse got a single kill, I think the game lasted about 4 mins max0 -
@MegMain98 said:
Master said:
thesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
The only difference is that noed can be countered
Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.
One god damn killer. Seriously whenever we encounter a balance issue the answer is to make a god damn perks or killer to deal with the problem. It ridiculous. Not to mention unnerving on anyone but doc makes gens rush faster as your giving more survivors skill checks which means more great skill check which means more faster gen repair. As for juggling man are your ds players that stupid they'll die next to a hook. Hell even if you do juggle, someone can body block to give them the chance to get it off. Ffs guys unnerving presence is a bad perk stop running it on your killers your giving survivors more great skill checks only doc can really utilize it and sometimes even then it wont work.
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Sprint Burst is not a crutch perk, none of the exhaustion perks are crutch and even if they were who cares? People are gonna use them regardless because they are the perks that work the best. BBQ, Ruin, Nurses Calling, Brutal Strength, Enduring, and Devour Hope are the most used killer perks because they work. Same goes for Self-Care, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Urban Evasion, and Decisive Strike on the survivors side. If you’re a great killer you wouldn’t have to ######### over any of the perks, the ONLY survivor perk that is a true crutch is Decisive Strike because it counters a mistake the surviDabrownman1812 said:
Noed can be negated entirely. Also, they kind of are, get scared, sprint burst to a loop. No thinking, just a button.MegMain98 said:
Self-Care, while I don’t use it is just a perk everybody is going to use. Almost every killer at high rank uses BBQ, same with survivors and self-care. It isn’t a CRUTCH perk and neither is Sprint Burst. Adrenaline is not the survivor equivalent of NOED. How is it? NOED is an insta down for the REST of the game and Adrenaline is a 3-5 second sprint burst while recovering a health state, they have nothing in common.The_Manlet said:@thesuicidefox said:
Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
Survivors have tons of crutch perks outside of Decisive Strike. Self-Care and Sprint Burst both completely change the way the game is played and Adrenaline is the survivor equivalent of NOED.
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You’re assuming every survivor is a god when it comes to making great skill checks. There is a reason overcharge is a highly used perk. Not everybody hits the great skill checks ALL the time. It can work, but like a lot of perks...it is situational which is why meta perks are used instead. Why use monstrous shrine or territorial imperative when BBQ and ruin will ALWAYS work? Why use unbreakable, sole survivor, or left behind when self care and sprint burst will ALWAYS work? I’ve missed skill checks/DS skill checks due to unnerving presence and overcharge before. Just because they don’t work ALL the time doesn’t make it a non-useful perk.Zarathos said:@MegMain98 said:
Master said:
thesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
The only difference is that noed can be countered
Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.
One god damn killer. Seriously whenever we encounter a balance issue the answer is to make a god damn perks or killer to deal with the problem. It ridiculous. Not to mention unnerving on anyone but doc makes gens rush faster as your giving more survivors skill checks which means more great skill check which means more faster gen repair. As for juggling man are your ds players that stupid they'll die next to a hook. Hell even if you do juggle, someone can body block to give them the chance to get it off. Ffs guys unnerving presence is a bad perk stop running it on your killers your giving survivors more great skill checks only doc can really utilize it and sometimes even then it wont work.
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Actually unbreakable plus Ds is commonly used as killers commonly slug survivors with ds. While iron will or urban evasion is better then unbreakable its still has its place is swf groups. Also high tier play will always demand you counter dbd balance problems with perks. Is Ds to strong then run enduring. Is game ending to fast because survivors are taking in crap like toolboxes and BNP's run ruin to slow'em down. Is self care screwing you run nurses calling. Is certain loops make your killer give up chases take bambozle. You see meta perks were introduced to counter problems that shouldn't exist.MegMain98 said:
You’re assuming every survivor is a god when it comes to making great skill checks. There is a reason overcharge is a highly used perk. Not everybody hits the great skill checks ALL the time. It can work, but like a lot of perks...it is situational which is why meta perks are used instead. Why use monstrous shrine or territorial imperative when BBQ and ruin will ALWAYS work? Why use unbreakable, sole survivor, or left behind when self care and sprint burst will ALWAYS work? I’ve missed skill checks/DS skill checks due to unnerving presence and overcharge before. Just because they don’t work ALL the time doesn’t make it a non-useful perk.Zarathos said:@MegMain98 said:
Master said:
thesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
The only difference is that noed can be countered
Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.
One god damn killer. Seriously whenever we encounter a balance issue the answer is to make a god damn perks or killer to deal with the problem. It ridiculous. Not to mention unnerving on anyone but doc makes gens rush faster as your giving more survivors skill checks which means more great skill check which means more faster gen repair. As for juggling man are your ds players that stupid they'll die next to a hook. Hell even if you do juggle, someone can body block to give them the chance to get it off. Ffs guys unnerving presence is a bad perk stop running it on your killers your giving survivors more great skill checks only doc can really utilize it and sometimes even then it wont work.
You want to see experimentation then champion the nerf's to these blatantly broken perks. Honestly we should see changes to ds and sprint burst. But until then I will use anything in my power to give me a chance at winning. I don't care for a meme build that is just gonna lose me game after game because I didn't include ruin or what other meta perks.0 -
Of course...as you should. You run perks that are going to help you win. As a survivor there is no way I’m going to run Deja Vu or Left Behind when Self-Care and Sprint Burst are a MUCH more viable option. As a killer I’m going to want to slow down the game with Thantaophobia and Ruin. Survivors and killer are going to use their meta perks to help them win the game. Decisive is the only perk I can truly get behind nerfing. The exhaustion perks shouldn’t have that issue as a true chase shouldn’t last as long as they do, a minute long chase is PRETTY long but you’ll see what I’m talking about below.Zarathos said:
Actually unbreakable plus Ds is commonly used as killers commonly slug survivors with ds. While iron will or urban evasion is better then unbreakable its still has its place is swf groups. Also high tier play will always demand you counter dbd balance problems with perks. Is Ds to strong then run enduring. Is game ending to fast because survivors are taking in crap like toolboxes and BNP's run ruin to slow'em down. Is self care screwing you run nurses calling. Is certain loops make your killer give up chases take bambozle. You see meta perks were introduced to counter problems that shouldn't exist.MegMain98 said:
You’re assuming every survivor is a god when it comes to making great skill checks. There is a reason overcharge is a highly used perk. Not everybody hits the great skill checks ALL the time. It can work, but like a lot of perks...it is situational which is why meta perks are used instead. Why use monstrous shrine or territorial imperative when BBQ and ruin will ALWAYS work? Why use unbreakable, sole survivor, or left behind when self care and sprint burst will ALWAYS work? I’ve missed skill checks/DS skill checks due to unnerving presence and overcharge before. Just because they don’t work ALL the time doesn’t make it a non-useful perk.Zarathos said:@MegMain98 said:
Master said:
thesuicidefox said:Survivor main. Ruin is fine honestly. Either bring a toolbox, use certain perks to do skill checks/find totems, or just get good at great skill checks. Most games Ruin is gone after the first chase, it's mostly there to give the killer a chance to start up pressure on the survivors. Others I just plow through and get my 2 gens so I can hatch at least.
NOED though is IMO a clutch perk. So many bad killers use it and end up getting way more kills than they rightfully deserve. And I mean just really bad killers, ones that can't catch you even when you don't loop or never kick gens or break pallets. Those killers always have a NOED and it always makes up for their lack of skill. I get games can go fast and it can be used as an ace in the hole, but good killers make better with other perks so the only ones that use it are the bad killers. If you want something for endgame that's not a crutch pick Remember Me. It's way more effective and actually takes some skill in that you have to find and hunt down your obsession. It also rewards you greatly for going after the DS guy, so now there's value in chasing them and not leaving them until the end of the game because DS.
And to be clear, DS and NOED are both equally crutchy perks for either side. Both give you a freebie for basically being bad at the game.
The only difference is that noed can be countered
Have you tried hitting a DS with The Doctor with unnerving and the skill check is all over the screen and violently shaking? Almost impossible. While it can’t be countered it can be SEVERELY punished. Not to mention, juggling is a thing.
One god damn killer. Seriously whenever we encounter a balance issue the answer is to make a god damn perks or killer to deal with the problem. It ridiculous. Not to mention unnerving on anyone but doc makes gens rush faster as your giving more survivors skill checks which means more great skill check which means more faster gen repair. As for juggling man are your ds players that stupid they'll die next to a hook. Hell even if you do juggle, someone can body block to give them the chance to get it off. Ffs guys unnerving presence is a bad perk stop running it on your killers your giving survivors more great skill checks only doc can really utilize it and sometimes even then it wont work.
You want to see experimentation then champion the nerf's to these blatantly broken perks. Honestly we should see changes to ds and sprint burst. But until then I will use anything in my power to give me a chance at winning. I don't care for a meme build that is just gonna lose me game after game because I didn't include ruin or what other meta perks.
Not saying the killers shouldn’t be powerful but the survivor shouldn’t be complete wimps either. The problem lies in that survivors are TOO weak at losing the killer but TOO strong at distracting the killer (saw somebody say this on the forums, just don’t remember who). Honestly the 2-3 times survivors use an exhaustion perk in one chase shouldn’t happen if survivors were stronger at hiding from the killer but weaker at distracting the killer. The point of the game is stealthing and hiding on the survivors side but you see 5 minute tunneling/chases because rarely is hiding a viable option. You rarely can lose the killer but can loop for ages. Survivors should have a better chance at losing the killer then they do, but shouldn’t be as strong at looping/distracting.0
https://youtu.be/PVFEm7SXYUc