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Killers, ARISE!
The objective here is to discuss about fun in killer gameplay and to call all the killers out there to arise and have their voices heard.
In its current state DBD is not kind with killers, resulting in a lot of matches that aren't fun at all. Fun is the ability of our brain to understand a pattern. If the pattern is too easy, it is boring, if it is too hard, it is frustrating. I'll show a list of annoying things that killers must consistently bear and facts that evidence that ppl are not having fun playing killer in general.
1) Generators are done too fast. Usually you will experience a ton of heavy pressure at the beginning of the game when using the majority of the killers. The match beginning is a nightmare for us, by far the worst part of the game in terms of fun. A lot of this is due to randomness. Unfortunatelly, the beginning of the matches is a hell of randomness: totems can be completelly exposed or hidden, the procedural map can have a lot of connected safe loops, you can choose the wrong generators to visit first, you can start at the top of an intricate structure. And... this list is not extensive. How killers can understand the patterns at the start of the match (i.e. have fun) if everything is random? Killers need a way to be more precise at the start of the matches ASAP!
1.1) The proof that generators are too fast is that almost any killer run Hex: Ruin. Without it, matches are nearly unplayable by the majority of killers.
2) Loops. Killer mind games are related with the control of the red light / stain, as well explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crgMmyoDzNQ. Thus, killers need loops where they can make the survivor lose visual contact. However, there is a lot of maps where in almost all loops the survivor has total visibility of the killer. Examples include Auto-heaven Wreckers, Backwater Swamp, Badham Preschool, Yamaoka Estate. Those maps have loops only composed of small structures and pallets and a few of them have a lot of vegetation that disable scratch marks and are easy for the survivors to blend. The killers, however, cannot disguise their size and red light in those environments.
2) Entity displeased. This is one of the most annoying things for killers. You cannot use Mori offerings if you want bloodpoints and PIP, what is reasonable since the objective of the game is to sacrifice the survivors. However, the same penalty does not apply for survivors. Rare keys and toolboxes will hugelly boost their gameplay with almost no drawbacks. Additionaly, a survivor can rage quit and destroy the killer score. Recently I had a Myers game where one survivor rage quit after first hook. I managed to sacrifice two other survivors and the last one used a key to escape. I was expecting a good score, but I got an Entity Displeased at the game result screen. This is completely nonsense. An additional note is that Myers usually does not have big scores at all. It is hard to hook survivors a lot of times or to halt gen progression when survivors can finish 2 or 3 gens before you finish your setup. Tombstone Myers is not even viable at current game state.
3) Finally, the evidence that killer is currently not fun enough: it is really difficult to find killer-only streams on Twitch. The fact that ppl does not want to stream killer points out that the killer gameplay is not as enjoyable as survivor gameplay.
Comments
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I rarely see people streaming survivor gameplay over killer gameplay, you can’t really have proof that something isn’t fun since fun is subjective.
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Loops are fine as they are.
Stop complaining.
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Gen rush is a problem but it has to do with the strength of Killers, if the Killers can't spread enough pressure around the map then Survivors are able to do Gens without any fear and that's when 2 -3 Gens get done in one chase. This is why a lot of Killers use Ruin because it is a small form a pressure that's passive. If Survivors had other things to do along with Gens or if the general strength of Killers were increased this problem would go down.
Loops are kind of being redone but I think only on the licensed maps, I think a Dev said they want to eventually address all the loops in the game and make them similar to the ones on the new Badham but I might be wrong.
Also, Hybridpanda on Twitch and Youtube is a Killer main, he does play some Survivor but mostly Killer. Monto is a Killer main too because he doesn't like playing solo Survivor.
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Sounds like another post complaining about things that don't need changing... Again 😒
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If you don't have ruin this is what will happen. You'll run around for a bit, find somebody after about 10 or 20 seconds, and after chasing them for about 15 seconds, the first generator will pop. Sometimes 2 generators. On top of that, too many loops have infinites, where the mind game is completely removed and you're forced to run the loop three times until the entity blocks the window, with the only counter being Bamboozle. Regular loops and jungle gyms are fine, but there's too many infinites. Period. I can still get 4Ks but many red rank survivors know how to abuse the infinites
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If your picture is to be believed then you are an ash? One of the most toxic looper survivor mains in the game behind nea
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"...You cannot use Mori offerings if you want bloodpoints and PIP, what is reasonable since the objective of the game is to sacrifice the survivors..."
No, the objective of the game is to have fun. Both, survivors and killer.
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Kinda hard when survivors do everything possible to kill the gens
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3 people can finish 2 generators in 25 seconds according to your comment.
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There are complaints on both sides killer/survivor. Some killers definitely don't need buffs and they should be looked at individually. As a survivor main I agree Gen's could be slowed down slightly but there are many perks a killer could run to help. Like ruin, discordance, surveillance. Also it can be just as disorientating for a survivor when they start a match as it is for a killer. Looping is the main defense of a survivor and because all maps are randomly generated survivors can be screwed over too by loops.
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Ah I see you're a literalist. You must be fun at parties. Tweak the numbers a bit, it's the same #########. By the time you find the first person and chase them for a bit, a generator will always pop and sometimes 2. I'm not sure how that's confusing.
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Behind Nea?!!! NANI?!!
Nea's don't loop!!!! (Apart from no0b3).
You're semi right about me being an Ash main, I actually main Quentin, Bill, Tapp and Ash equally.
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You're not supposed to win at 5 gens. In fact you are not even supposed to get 4 kills all the time. Not sure how that's confusing.
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The only thing that really needs addressing is game length via adding new objectives. Doing gens is boring as survivor and the games get done too fast so that survivors don’t have to use the maps’ resources efficiently.
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Like how i main freddy wraith GF billy and hag
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I understand wat u mean most people here are ignorant and highly likely survs main, but yes I hate how survs main don't understand the frustration in the fact people quit cuz they are babies and don't wanna lose and wat sucks even more is the fact that I can happen one after another hook one he quits, hook another that one quits and same with the next guy and u only get one kill cuz the other guy plays fair but yet u get entity displeased. And it sucks makes me wanna quit for good, they need to make it where when someone quits it counts as a kill as long as u hit them or hook them and they quit.
But us killer mains just gotta deal with the fact that survs ( some of them) want to win every game
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And that's what we killers said to y'all when y'all were complaining but in the end they nerfed us and now its frustrating to be a killer but we deal with it and yet y'all survs just keep complaining, Nerf this Nerf that please, and we keep saying no we are fine don't do it but yet the devs keeps doing it.
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Way to act overly dramatic despite the fact most decent killers 4k "nearly" every game. Even current statistics say the survival rate is "below 50%" across all ranks and platforms.
If you struggle you're bad/inexperienced. It's that simple. Also literally most people on this forum (including me) are killer mains. That doesn't mean I'll always agree with what killers want/say since I may play mostly killer but have a better understanding of the whole game than some 100 hours killer main because I've played both sides up to rank 1 a million times in the past 2 years/3000 game hours.
Right now getting a 4k is a complete joke. I can 4k as Leatherface in less than 1 minute if survivors screw up which happens pretty often as you can see on my YT channel. The only challenge is an organized 4 man SWF team which rarely ever joins my lobby.
You're most likely one of those guys who complain about 1 single 4 man escape even if you managed to 4k the other 10 games before.
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But what I do since survs quit and send toxic texts I tunnel if I want cuz it's a strat, I'll use insidious on the doc to watch the hook so I can lure one to me, if I'm Billy then the chainsaw, if I'm wraith then just go in and out of invisible and if they work on my totem I trap them by it and uncloack, honestly now days I don't care wat the survs say cuz strat is strat, if they are gen rushing that means I'm not doing good enough to stop them so I need to apply pressure to the gems instead or lose, if the are looping which is a strat and it's waisting time them I need to either call it off and check the gems so they can't finish them or keep the chase on and let them finish it, when survs flashlight me as I break the pallets or as I'm picking someone up it's a strat by the way, I end up just chasing down the flashlight surv and hooking him as much as I can so I don't have to deal with them anymore, so killers main out there like me just deal with it cuz it's strat, stop complaining, survs out there suck it up cuz it's strat
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Reload the page so u can see my new post before u say anything, cuz I know wat u mean and that's not wat I was getting at yes I lose games and win them but unless they quit one after another I'll be having fun,
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Plus if they quit and make u lose a kill that u we're just bout to have u would be upset to if not then ok but since i started the game not even a week but I'm pretty decent at the game it just makes me upset when they quit on me right before I can hook them and get the kill so I don't make the entity displeased
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I'm....really confused by your last point. Most of the top streamers of DBD play a LOT of killer. Yes they play survivor too, but why wouldn't they? Why alienate half of your potential subscribers by not throwing in some survivor?
If anything, playing survivor shows they have an even better grasp of the game since having a solid idea of how survivor gameplay works, can only improve your killer game.
The fact that they include survivor play is not evidence of killer not being fun, it's a smart business decision if you're relying on subscribers to pay your bills.
Alternatively....and here's a crazy idea....maybe they don't believe they have to pick one side because they actually enjoy playing both?
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Uh. No they most certainly aren't. There are far too many safe loops in this game. The Badham rework was perfect, it gave more room for skill expression on both sides. More loops, but less safe loops, meaning both players in the loop had to mindgame the other into getting hit/stunned.
You have loops like Coal tower, ironworks, strode house, borderline every pallet at the game, and more loops that are 100% safe and undmindgameable, which siphons far too much power out of killers.
As someone who plays Survivior and killer, the Badham rework was amazing, and I hope more maps get addressed like Badham did. Bc loops are for the most part not fine.
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The post was very long, I'm not gonna read all of it
But I'll tell you that if you think that the game is not kind on killers now you clearly haven't been here in the early days
1) Yes the gens are done too fast, but unless the devs find some kind of second objective it's going to stay like this
2) Loops have always been apart of the game, some are safer than others and some are out right abusable. Hopefully with the map reworks it will get better
3) Entity Displeased. You shouldn't care about rank, ranks don't mean anything.
4) Why do you look at streamers of all people? Most of them, including most Fog Whisperes are incredibly biased. Play both sides, have fun, find your own opinions
Back in the days the game was living hell for killers, right now, compared to those times, it's like a peaceful oasis
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being a killer now isnt hard, in the early days of DBD before the big survivor nerf, being a killer was a pain in the expletive.
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Enduring
spirit fury
Bbq and chili cause.... yeah.
discordance (if you’re that bad at knowing where to go in the beginning) or
whispers (to know more clearly when survivors are around you so you won’t necessarily have to walk to the generator completely if whispers doesn’t light up)
and there you pretty much solved all of your problems with loops and inability to play the game
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1) they should increase generator time by 20 - 40 seconds and test it out in PTB.
2) Get over it. Do pips really matter just have fun playing with addons that you enjoy
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Well could u mention how to do that. Saying it needs to be fixed and not listing how is pointless.
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Dude... I get what you're saying but do you EVER stop talking about how big your dick is? You're all over this website blabbing about your 4ks. Gets really old really quick.
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Wow, I do not expect so many replies! It is great to see ppl discussing the game so it can be improved. I just want to explain my point about streams. I was not saying that there is no killer-main streams. My point is that, statistically, there is much more survivor gameplay being streamed. You just need to access Twitch right now, select DBD and compare the number of streams that have a killer in the tumbnails with the number of streams that have a survivor instead. Of course there are big streamers playing killer, but the fact that the killer population is so small is quite elucidative in my opinion.
Post edited by dsilvavini on0 -
I'll stop mentioning my 4ks as soon as the other killers on this forum stop acting like a 4k was basically impossible or too difficult. This gets old quickly as well. Survivors are no longer op, they did get heavily nerfed with the exhaustion nerf, removal of pallet vacuums, removal of certain pallets, removal of certain windows etc. and getting a 4k is now a complete joke especially against solos - period.
I had more fun as killer when I actually had to try hard to get 2-3 kills back in early 2018 but that's just me I guess.
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The devs have stated a survivor should survive about 30% of the time, that means if you're getting 2-3 kills in a match that is intended gameplay. If you're getting mad cause you're not getting 4ks every match, then this game is not for you, pallets were recently nerfed and totems buffed. If you can't catch a survivor then drop Chase and look for someone else, it's easier to catch a survivor out if you catch them trying to save someone else. Unfortunately the devs haven't balanced bloodpoints earned or pops gained with expected kills per match and I think that's what drives this community crazy.
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The less killer players the better
Better queue times
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Honestly, i play Spirit so im satisfied with my gameplay and my personal experience so far, however i was once a Trapper - Hillbilly main, and honestly, it wasnt fun, im not saying becuase i lost or got out-played, but it was the abuse of certain loops(Infinites), without such a Highly mobile and unpredictable character such as Spirit, i would have quit this game when i hit red ranks, and wait for rank reset. Going against highly skilled opponents is fun for me, becuase it demonstrates a level of skill required, but it seems there has to be a meta with "broken" killers for killers to have some sort of experience of the game that is satisfactory.
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On badman maybe lol certainly not on maps like the temple
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Temple?
Ha
HA
I LAUGH!!
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Ignorant people often do
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Y'all remember when the moonrise event and the hallowed blight event was in the game i think that they should add a side objective like this and it would help the gen rush from happening and if survivors do it, the obj than it rewards survivors and same for killer like the lanterns from moonrise like how you could destroy them after you hook someone, just an idea.
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Sounds like a smoke blower to me
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Why so much toxicity over a game just have fun with it or play something else
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I don’t know why people are trying to say he is wrong. Everything he said is true and has been true for the longest time. The problem is, how do you fix any of this? These problems seem like solving them will just cause more to come up and makes it extremely difficult to do anything about it.
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The thing is the killers are the ones who make the game. The game is nothing without the killers. The survivors can be anyone I mean if laurie wasn't in the game it wouldn't change that much but if myers wasn't in the game it would change because the killers make the game and Myers is so iconic. I just don't see how the killers get the ######### end of the stick when they are literally the most important part of the game.
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I cant agree that it is COMPLETLY IMPOSSIBLE to play a good game without ruin, i am playing atm, legion, wraith, billy, spirit, clown, freddy and nurse without ruin noed or anything else, just pop goes the genrush and i dont have alot of problems to stall the game, just sometimes when you meet really good loopers.
The main problem is, it is hard to keep the pressure as a NOT pressure killer like clown, huntress, wraith etc, because obviously these killers dont have something to reach gens faster or protect them well compared to other killers, spirit, nurse, new freddy, billy.
So what i mean with that is, if you really know how to master the killer and play him optimal you dont HAVE to play with ruin, only on some specific killers because they need the extra time at the start of the game, but overall pop goes the genrush is stronger for my opinion.
But what i want to adress is that kicking gens without pop feels really useless, because if the survivors are good at hiding they will just touch the gen and your 2sec kick animation was just a timewaste that almost did nothing, i think everyone knows the funny situation where you have the last gen on 90%+ and you have to protect it, but there are always coming survivors to the gen and trying to rush it, kicking it will not help at all cuz the damage over time is not high or fast enough, just with pop.
I would say kicking gens and a overall repair speed reduce of like 10% maybe would be nice, my idea of buffing the basic kick is either do a build in mini pop goes the weasel that regress the gen after a kick by idk 5% or something, or survivors cant touch the gen to stop the damage time, they have to do a 2-3 sec action really quick just like a little mend to get the "damage" debuff of the gen away, that prevents the "useless kick" situation with a 90% + gen.
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