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Good Old Unreliable Totems
Hello everyone. today I want to talk about the good old unreliable totem perks, and I say unreliable because let's face it. If it last longer than 2 minutes in a game, any totem at all, is just a miracle by itself. Because I know the only thing I ever get from totems is the sound effect of a totem being destroyed in the first 30 seconds of the match.
Now keep in mind, I don't really believe totem spawn locations is the problem here. Sure they are many bad totem spawn in the game. Especially those literally 5 feet away from generators, but that isn't the problem I'm here to discuss today.
Recently one of my personal favorite YouTubers known as Space Coconut talked about a sort of punishing way when cleansing a totem perk. Now i'm not going to go full detail on what he said here, so I'll leave the video link here for those who want to hear it yourselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tJ57Ir_fE
However one of the big things I disagree in that video is the solution he was suggesting. It was "When a totem perk gets destroyed (Aside from Haunted) the survivor either looses a second chance perk (Meaning is deactivated for the duration of the match. These perks are but not limited to DC, MOM, Deliverance, and so on.) and if they have no second chance perk then their exhaustion perk will be deactivated instead. (Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, and so on.)
However I don't believe this should be the solution due to one simple thing. I don't believe survivors should be in a way punished for doing a side objective, being to cleanse totems. Because I know as a Survivor I would feel absolute fear when Devour Hope is active, and when I do cleanse the totem, My dead Hard is out.
A better and more fair solution for this is maybe a temporary debuff called "Cursed". My idea for this debuff is quite simple. When Cursed, that specific survivor does every action (Cleansing, repairing, sabo, healing ext..) 35% slower, and injuries done to this survivor take 35% longer to heal. This effect will last for a generous 120 seconds. Is not something broken as it only affects that 1 survivor temporarily. Plus for those survivors who loop, this effect isn't super damaging toward you, except for the healing part. However is not super broken, and no if you're wondering it does not stack with itself. It will simply refresh the new one and get rid of the old one if the same cursed survivor is breaking a totem.
But that's what I personally think should happen, tell me what you all think? I always love to receive your opinion. If you got any questions, tell them down below, and as always...
With love, DoomOrb
Comments
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This makes me happy :)
Whatever the solution, my main point is that an equal price should be paid by the survivor. The killer is losing a perk permanently.
But if we go with the timed duration, why couldn't the totem repair itself after that duration was over?
Think of it like a respite from the curse.
Then once that break is over, the totem repairs itself like hooks do and the curse is reinstated.
The killer loses the perk for a short time, but doesn't lose it permanently. With the punishment to the survivor being time lost looking for the totems each time they want to break it.
Some perks would need to be toned down, but these are just rough ideas for a frustrating problem we currently have.
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I think the numbers are a bit much for it... but I'm game for something to buff hex perks.
I really like @SpaceCoconut's idea too.
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You've probably been around long enough to remember this suggestion being thrown around on the steam forums.
The same can be said for many other perks as well lol
Our ideas have always been implemented in the game through purchasable dlc perks...
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Both yours and the other idea by Space is really good.
In my old post about totems I had an option called Curse The Defiler that gave that Survivor the Exposed status effect, and then they made Haunted Grounds soon after lol
Inflicting the Survivor with a slight Curse for breaking a totem makes sense, I have always said that a Killer would never leave their source of power unprotected and not have a consequence for it being destroyed. So cursing the Survivor with a temp debuff or bringing the totem back after a few minutes is a grand idea.
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Totem perks should stay as is. High risk (bringing them in, chance of losing it) high reward (powerful ability).
The survivor losing a second chance perk is definitely not a good idea since they have their downsides or can be countered. Losing their exhaustion perk? Just seems unfair IMO.
Action debuff after destroying a totem just doesn’t seem fair either. They shouldn’t get punished *like that* for doing their objective.
I also disagree with a totem rebuilding itself. If you bring in a Hex totem, you should live with the potential risks.
Just improve totem placement.
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Post edited by tortrader on1 -
Gotta say I really hate perks to fix issues, but far worse, I hate HEXES to fix the issues with OTHER HEXES.
If you put in a perk that helps protect or slow totems, great, but having that be associated with another hex totem and be completely removable is just annoying, it just means I'm down another perk if the spawns are bad.
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What if they made it so hexes would re-spawn on a new location in 60 seconds if broken or if left untouched for 3-4 minutes, they would break themselves and stay broken for the rest of the game?
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Next killer needs to have another totem perk similar to haunted grounds except with a different side effect. A perk that when the survivor cleanses the hex totem their auras get exposed to the killer for the remainder of the trial. Now that would be a nice perk and it would make survivors really hesitate to cleanse a hex totem.
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To the op, as a survivor that goes more than half the match injured and for the most part doesn't care about healing I like the cursed effect idea. I don't think generators need a change in pace,however, in either direction. I think generators and ruin need a major overhaul. Let's face it folks good skill checks do not require any skill and great skill checks only require great internet.
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This^^
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Punishing survivors for getting rid of a hex? That seems off. It's alreadt setting them back by having to go find the totem and cleanse it. And if the killer is around it, it can completely derail a team. I know that has happened to me especially vs the hag
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Love your vids man. Keep up the great work. Also I understand why you said it, I just don't think they should be punished the way you're suggesting. Is a little too strong I would say. Might not matter to skilled survivors, but I'm at best average as survivor. I do play both sides so that's why I'm trying to find a solution that works for both sides.
Would be a bit on the nose but not super powerful.
Glad you are.
A better solution instead of having the perk back would be having the perk replaced by one you put on before the totem perk. This way there wouldn't be much of a risk loosing the totem perk. But I understand that's asking a lot from the devs so I'm not sure.
I strongly disagree, but respect your opinion.
Would be nice but annoying sometimes as killer.
Yeah, can't really fix the issue with other hex perks. Makes no sense.
Sounds strong.
Not a permanent punishment, plus we killers loose more than you anyways.
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Hexes could be like exhaustion perks for survs, just inside out: doesn't work after breaking for a period of time. I.e. hexes could respawn after cleansed.
Now keeping full strength totem for the whole match (especially if that's the one that grows in power over time) would be unfair. So something like this should happen:
- totems without tokens should get starting tokens with maximum strength attached to it. Totems lose some tokens when cleansed, losing progress or generally strength on it.
- or dull totem should be lit when perk respawns, making it possible to prevent respawn by cleansing all totems. That way killers don't lose a reason to protect totems, but also may chose, where a totem ends at (sooner or later). Thrill of the hunt also can decrease time required for totems to respawn.
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How about a ghost hex perk where if one of your totems gets destroyed it transfers to a dull totem. And the person who cleansed it has their aura revealed to killer for x seconds
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Coconut!
You stole my idea in response to your video...LOL
Yes, I think a "time-out" from the totem would work well, especially since hooks and traps repair themselves after 3 minutes. Somewhere between 3 and 5 minutes sounds good. If 3 minutes is too short (and it might be), then 4 should work. The totem doesn't lose any progress that it had before it was disabled, but it obviously has no effect while disabled, and it doesn't gain any progress while disabled either.
The key piece though, is that it doesn't respawn in the same location. When the respawn timer is up, the spawn locations that are furthest from all survivors and incomplete generators should be added to a list, and one randomly chosen. This could literally be calculated in less that 1ms, and is extremely easy to do.
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If you want survs to not gen rush then don't punish them for doing the only other obj in the game... There would be no point in breaking ruin if it took away my perks. That doesn't even make sense.
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What irony.
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Just put the Springwood offering in, and guarantee a more hidden totem placement until the devs clean up other maps. Of course, then you'll have that one guy who always puts on Small Game (or has someone in their SWF do it) to screw you over anyways.
Or you can force survivors to get better at hitting the great skill checks to avoid having to cleanse Ruin, and then I'll have one less thing to complain about.
Plus, the ideas above are counter-able if you have one member sacrifice their game by handling the totems.
If anything I would encourage an update that made the totems work in tangent that as long as 5 are still active, they take X time to cleanse, where X is longer than the norm. Then with each totem cleansed, future totems are cleansed faster. This gives the killer more control over Hex Ruin and catch a player on it and a slowdown of gens...provided one or two players aren't hitting the Ruin skill checks and gen rushing you while you babysit precious totems.
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@DoomOrb Then what’s the point of Hex totems being in the game? Survivors get punished if they cleanse or don’t. That doesn’t make any sense. Maybe your idea could be like a perk or add on, but no way should it be base kit.
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If you playing killer and it's not such a good team you get your downs hooks and all but at the same time it doesn't feel fair to the survivor side because you are over powered kind of yea survivor's don't stand a chance when they run out of pallets and perk options and there only move is to get the gens done while they have there perks it can still not be enough and to me that wouldn't fun as kill I don't want to just instantly down a survivor's unless that's my killers power and I don't want the easy win totems are fine even spawning directly into the open is also fine. It's not much fun either for killer if they get stuck doing ruin either I like survivor's getting at least 3 gens doneThe biggest issue we face how do they stop the combination of New Part,Leader, and whatever make gen speeds just fly .My games usually takes 9 to 14 minutes
1.goes to other side of map ruin blows no survivor's found ,makes it half way back first gen pops,2 minutes
Chases survivor for 1 minute 45 seconds and two generators are done
Chase them 5 minutes or more and get two hooks, maybe. They're about to open exit gates scratch that gate is 99 because the other survivor you haven't hooked is already at the door he's or she is the first one to leave always 😏 you sly dog you
But how do you prevent these anomalies from happening?that's what wins the game when you're not in there presence there doing the most damage
I like the idea of putting a timer on the ruin and selects furtherest away to respawn if destroyed or give it a long expose effect it is a ruin after all totems like Third Hex Seal and Devour Hope are good but easily found maybe on perks like these two could spawn but one is a fake and the real one always will select furtherest away from survivor are area of killer tell what do you think
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Ive had my totems last all game at rank 8
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Stopped reading at “spawns aren’t the problem”.
They are the problem.
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I disagree. Plus even if the devs were to put them on better places, is only a matter of time before survivors memorize the spots.
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Not a bad idea.
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May I remind you that killers are supposed to be the role of power. Killers won't be powerful if totem perks can just be deactivated just like that without any consequences. So which is why I add this effect.
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Well my idea doesn't take away perks but adds a debuff.
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Your idea is ok, but still doesn't fit the purpose here I'm suggesting.
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Lucky you
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What does the killer power role have anything to do with hex totems? Killers can be powerful without Hex Perks and thats a fact. You don’t need to rely on Hex perks.
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In red ranks or purple no ruin you're going to get destroyed and that's a fact
@DoomOrb I like the curse effect
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What power does the killer have when loosing a perk. Sure you don't need hex perks to win, but something must be in a way gain by the killer when loosing a perk, even if is just minor. This curse I'm suggesting fits just that.
Glad you like it.
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I wouldn't want to see some sort of punishment for cleaning a hex, personally. Hex perks are generally more powerful than the average perk because they can be cleansed. It's a risk, but it could pay off big time. If there's a penalty for cleansing it, there's no risk. Whatever happens, you get a powerful effect.
I'd prefer they keep the risk vs. reward aspect. If you don't want to take the risk, you can go for a weaker perk that has a similar but guaranteed effect.
(It would be nice if the hex perks that spawn wide open, like on the asylum, didn't happen, though.)
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Hex perks are for the most part high risk due to the reward.
You never want to punish someone for simply doing the objective or removing something.
Think about the old DS, MoM and BT these perks used to punish a killer for simply doing what they are meant too. This is why they were changed to promote more fair play instead of just free escapes for survivors.
Adding a punishment for doing an objective doesnt make sense and would mean they have learnt nothing from the above. You should want survivors to totem hunt and try to cleanse them as it gives you more time to pressure the map.
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The killer has an actual power you know. That’s where the main “power role” comes from. They would also have other perks and their add ons. That and the player who’s actually playing the killer. Like I said before, there would be no reason for Totems to exist if they have a negative affect (to survivors) whether they cleanse it or not (The counter to Hexes would be to take a negative affect no matter the outcome. A pick your poison type deal). We talked about hexes being really strong for the most part. That’s why they have a chance to be taken away. I think it’s fair for both sides (as long as totem placement is also good). And if you were to nerf hexes and implement your idea, there wouldn’t be any reason to have them anymore (hexes) because they’d be too weak and the high risk, high reward factor would no longer be. Would become ‘semi high risk, low reward’.
And no, I don’t like your idea that’s why I’m disagreeing with it. No need to have that arrogant mentality with that last comment of yours.
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The idea of removing a survivor perk imo is wrong because the survivor didn't choose to bring such kind of perk. If you choose to use an Hex it is at your own risk
Personally though I always thought it would be nice if each hex perk had its own curse to afflict the survivor who cleansed it, related to what the perk does.
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I meant to tag someone else when I said 'Glad you liked it." but at this very moment my computer is currently out of commission. So expect much slower replies. I'll completely read your reply when my computer is in better conditions.
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Alright so what if there was a hex perk that reversed lit and unlit totems, the perk itself would be lit along with other totems that have no perk tied to them whilst the totems that contained hex perks would become dull (can still be cleansed and rid the hex perk tied to the dull totem) until the right lit totem is broken. It wouldn't require other hex perks if you didn't want to and it could confuse the survivors into cleansing the totem thinking it has a perk tied to it. This could also give a downside to the killer of not knowing where all their totems containing their real hex perks are because they would be unlit
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I read you loud and clear Chief, but better totem spawn won't fully fix the whole totem problem I have and others like the very talented YouTuber known as SpaceCoconut. The biggest problem is that the risk is far too high. What I'm personally offering is a way to lighten the risk by adding this curse effect. Is no perk remover like SpaceCoconut would want and neither is it an automatic totem repair like others suggested. Is more of a small way to slow the game down as you may know. Plus it fits the whole curse thing totems label themselves to have.
That is all, thank you for reading and responding. Your presence is always aprechiated.
With love, DoomOrb.
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Is an interesting Idea I'll give you that but wouldn't work on survivors who count what perks you have during a match. I give you 5 stars for creativity though. You really think outside the box.
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Glad you liked it
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I know right. I wasn't too fond of SpaceCoconut 's idea either. I do like your idea though.
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I will admit I would like to see 'Thrill of the Hunt' get some love.
I like to run an almost full hex build sometimes and I find it infuriating that Thrill of the Hunt is made known immediately... either remove the notification for survivors or make it a regular non-hex perk.
The survivors will figure it out eventually, why hand them that information so readily?
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The difference between old DS and MOM is that it gave too many second chances and created really angry killer mains (like old me). Totems are secondary objective at best and survivors could in theory get away with not doing a single totem.
Now let's get back with the example you gave with DS and MOM. Yes they did publishe the killer for doing the objective and as a results , got nerf. However, Contrary to the killer, this curse effect only affects 1 survivors. Killers are only 1 while survivors are 4. So 1 person out of 4 being affeCted isn't going to harm the match by all that much. plus is temporary I might add. the survivors can still loop IF he/she's good and can sTill do objectives though slower. it is really no more harmless than thanadophobia stack 1 on Everyone.
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Same
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What power does the killer have when loosing a perk. Sure you don't need hex perks to win, but something must be in a way gain by the killer when loosing a perk, even if is just minor. This curse I'm suggesting fits just that.
Glad you like it.
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the.point.of.totems.is.to.be.risky.they.are.fine.(for the most part)
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I heavily disagree, but also respect your opinion.
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Hex totems aren't risk vs reward: if they were that way, they would be fine. The problem right now is that Hex totems are luckiness vs reward. Furthermore, against good survivors, often their effects are just "meh" (Ruin for example), so there isn't the reward part, only the luckiness for a trash effect. That's the problem. The only real luckiness vs real reward perks are Hex like Devour Hope or Noed.
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risk vs reward? more like risk vs risk
and ruin isn't even that strong, just learn to hit great skill checks
devour nope is strong but by the time you get two tokens its gone
third seal just neglects auras, yes gets rid of information for survivors but what else?
noed is very strong, but you have to wait till the end and even then, you might only get one or two kills, or even none (Noed needs a rework asap btw)
haunted grounds is the only good hex perk because you want that to be cleaned
huntress lullaby is not even that strong, yes may throw off some survivors, but then what? and even then before you even get a skill check they immediately know you have it and either prepare for it or go find it
thrill of the hunt is just....garbage and time wasting to the killer, not to the survivor and it is way beyond counter-able
When you bring in a hex perk you...
risk of it being cleaned to fast
risk of it spawning in a really stupid spot
risk of it not even working fully
risk of survivors being able to easily counter it without cleaning it
risk of one survivor just going around cleaning all of the totems and happen to find your hex totem
risk of it not even doing its job
and the only reward out of it is if it last long enough to work, but that takes time which is also a risk so it doesn't even feel near like a high reward
unless the biggest risk is taken out asap (which is the really obvious totem spots) hex perks are a risk vs risk
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