Fix Gen Tapping Or Remove Regression
Seriously.
I just had a match where a Feng ran PAST a genny & it stopped regressing. Her character did not even turn to FACE the generator because she tapped the button so quickly.
I know she did it because the Jake was on a Hook, and Bill and Claudette were behind me working on a different genny.
I regressed one, found Feng, and she just brushed past it without interrupting her sprinting animation and it stopped sparking.
It's in NO WAY a risk for Survivors to tap a gen mid-chase, since they can do it without even changing animations!
What's the point in spending 3 seconds Regressing a generator when Survivors can literally animation-cancel in less than a FRAME OF ANIMATION! That's 1/60th of a second to stop my THREE SECONDS OF WORK.
Something needs to be done to stop frame-instant gen tapping. This is a legit problem when Survivors don't even stop for a single frame of animation. @Peanits
Comments
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I remember there was a HUUUGGEEE thread about this a little bit ago and thought this was a re-post.
Yes, I agree, they need to add just 1 second to stop regression, 1 second of an animation.
But do know that Gen tapping was officially given a counter with Overcharge so there is that. The true power of Overcharge comes in when you get Gen tappers but you don't always get them. Just like you don't always get body blockers and waste a perk slot on Mad Grit or don't always get people going into lockers when you get Iron Maiden because the perk is #########.
I don't think they'll address this but I still think they should, Overcharge will still be relevant but will probably not be as strong since Survivors will have to focus during that 1 second. I might be wrong though, never know until they try y'all.
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Yeah the only way to stop it is to either run overcharge or use Pop Goes The Weasel to punish it, and that's a whole perk slot dedicated to stopping something every survivor can do
Quite frustrating but what can you do. In the case of Weasel it's actually quite beneficial
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What we can do is make sure the devs know it's a problem. :)
Seriously, why does it take me 3 seconds to Regress but Survivors 1/60th of a second to stop it?
That's 0.05 seconds.
It takes me SIXTY TIMES LONGER to Regress then generator than it takes a Survivor to undo that work.
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Forgot to say I would love a perk that increased Gen Regression speed, that would be very helpful.
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at 1st who cares about difference between 3 sec and 0,1 sec, if you kicked gen next to surv, its your fault xd, if you kick gen its regresing (its not like in those 0,1 sec its back to where it was before you kicking, unless youre kicking it next to surv which is your fault not game xd) and if you kicked gen, and it regressed for 12sec you got profit out of it xd and its hard for surv to touch gen in 12 sec unless killer will kick it without paying attention to surrounding area, use pop, overcharge (for more value), or brutal for faster kick, or whispers (to know if there is surv nearby)
devs gave killers possibility of kicking gens, killers: "why i have to think when to kick gen"
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You completely missed the point.
A survivor should not be able to stop a Regression in the middle of a chase, regardless of how long ago I regressed it or how close a Survivor was.
It's silly that they can basically flick their hip at the Generator and it stops regressing. It's a time investment; what's the point of Regressing if a Survivor can stop that in 1/60th of a second?
What the point in chasing Survivors off a nearly-done Generator when they can tap it in 1/60th of a second in the middle of a fight?
It means the Killer has NO REASON to Regress generators, because they lose 3 seconds and Survivors can stop it in..less than a second.
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Bait.
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"It's a time investment; what's the point of Regressing if a Survivor can stop that in 1/60th of a second?"
"It means the Killer has NO REASON to Regress generators, because they lose 3 seconds and Survivors can stop it in..less than a second."
you didnt read what i typed, its killers fault for kicking gen next to surv xd
and time investment YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT CURRENT SITUATION xd dude youre telling me i missed the point and then when you wanted to explain me the point of it, you literally wrote about what i wrote xd,
@Pulsar you can think about it as bait and live your life while crying about survs being OP or genrushing you
if youre chasing surv (edited) into kicked gen (but you didnt started chase next to gen) it most likely will take at least 12 sec to get there (unless surv will run straight to that gen, and then that means you get free hit or surv is wasting pallet) well about 30x difference you can tell the same about free hits when killer is carring surv on the hook (yes surv made decision to blok) and in 1 sec he got hit (most likely other surv was hooked) but because of that 1 sec he had to spent 32 sec self caring (or 2x 16sec while getting healed) soooo 30 times more time, xd
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Dude. You're not going to convince me that a Survivor stopping a Regression with ONE FRAME OF ANIMATION is at all fair, balanced, or NOT an oversight.
Keep in mind, in a 60FPS game, you get 60 frames of animation per second. They are literally tapping a gen in 1 out of 60 frames in a second.
This is an oversight, so go cry your 'Killer main bias' BS elsewhere. The adults are talking real problems.
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@Locker_Monster well you ignored my arguments about not allowing surv to touch gen but ofc arguments arent for you, you just want "devs i dont like this, change this" even if you will need 0,5 sec you will still cry about that, even if it will take 1sec it will still be less than your precious 3 sec, so maybe after killer kick gen surv cant stop pressing M1 untill its finished? then you will be happy?
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I tried quoting myself from another thread:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/626437#Comment_626437
Just a quick note the only real time generator kicking is valuable is when none of the other survivors are on gens. Otherwise you will always be at a net loss of the progression gained during regression time of the generator including the time it takes to kick the generator. Even when you are doing a 3-gen strategy. If the survivors are working on gens like they should be you will still be at a net loss. It simply takes longer since they can't hang around closer gens as long. Your punishment is the distance and time to kick the gen between generators.
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it can take 1 second. That's still ONE full second in a chase. It would stop frame-perfect gen taps to prevent regression.
Tapping a chase would fall off as insta-taps could no longer be done, because the Survivor would have to decide if they want to lose time out of a chase.
With it as it is, the Survivor loses NOTHING to tap a gen mid-chase because they can frame-cancel.
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I want your Feng to teach me her ways. I have to hit m1 like 30 times for the input to actually register despite the fact that my mouse works fine for literally every other game I own. No gen tapping for me ;-;
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@Jdsgames i can fully agree with that, tbh only time when you could kick gen (without pop) is when you have whispers off, but if you have whispers off youre in such bad place you will waste huge amout of time or after hooking surv and on bbq you see 3 survs (which is rare these days)
so most of the time kicking gen is waste of the time, especially when i see killers that are kicking like 5% gen (and thats not rare even on red rank which call themself high ranks)
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Whenever SpaceCoconut on YT talks about a thread that exploded, I always think about that one.
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Exactly, that's what I was trying to get at but kind flew past it.
Everyone was complaining about body blockers so they gave us Mad Grit and that's the case with Overcharge and Gen tappers but those don't solve the underlining problem. They're selling us solutions through perks instead of fixing the actual problem. Granted that is the easier way to do it but actually makes more problems, you sacrifice perk slots for problems you may not encounter and then get screwed by other issues your build wasn't prepared for.
For example, Tru3Talent was using an all Exhaustion build with every perk using Exhaustion but went against a Doctor using the Exhaustion add-on for T3 Madness. Tru3 was basically screwed over but because he was a Survivor who doesn't actually need perks to play the game he got out. Killers can't get away with that #########.
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No you miss interpreted his point that everyone BUT you got he kicked a gen it started regressing he got in chase with a survivor in another spot on the map lead him to the gen, who absolutely did not stop running AT ALL past that gen which magically stopped regressing because the tap was so fast it didn't even pick up in the frames of the game and that is what is BS since you obviously had it explained to you in the simplest way possible and you couldn't even grasp the concept that or you not want to grasp the concept to keep a fire burning which is also bs
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Nope because you always have to consider the work of the other survivors. Even if two people are running away from that one gen. The time it took you kick it and the time it takes to regress any reasonable amount. The progression of the survivors heavily outweighs it to the point the kick never gains anything for the killer. Which means the survivors have to be circle jerking around the map doing absolutely nothing for the regression to ever favor the killer. However, if the survivors are not doing anything. Then the generator kick is still a net loss since they aren't doing their objective to begin with. (There is a reason you can't kick a gen with no progression)
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How does Overcharge counter this AT ALL? The skillcheck still pops up and lets them hit it as they're running away.
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I mean theoretically if that survivor is ######### at small skill checks running and hitting one is difficult. However, I do it just fine against 3-Gen Unnerving Doctor all the time.
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@TrueKn1ghtmar3 yea but you see, he is overkilling problem xd ofc unnoticed frame of tap might be problem but where is 0,1sec animation (gens have vacuum) and where is 1sec, he is just mad because of connection he couldnt see vacuum tap, but remember they cant change that because that would mess up with gen tapping during ruin which as long as is in almost every 2nd game and most of survs cant hit great skill checks (if they could, noone would run ruin because it would never make it worth) i guess he hit gen repair +1bp, 80sec/1250bp = 0,064 sec -> i guess thats min time require to tap gen
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Thats assuming the survivors who work on the gen are bad at skillchecks though, and not that this has something to do with tapping. I could understand if Overcharge skillchecks autofailed like EVERY other skillcheck in the game if you stop working when the skillcheck pops up...but it doesnt. So why does it keep getting brought up as a counter against tapping?
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@DudeDelicious "Perkless killer = totally dependent on killer choice. Some can. Some absolutely cannot regardless of how skilled the player may be with said killer."
yea its not like there were hundreds of "perkless to R1 challanges", or some streamers that are playing from time to time without perks (yes on your belowed R1), lets take some examples: 1 time Tofu made perkless(and ofc add on less) wraith to R1, other time he made to R1 as perkless(and add on less Legion) on guitar from guitar hero (and no he isnt guitar hero streamer, i never saw him playing that), Scorpionz is playing from time to time perkless Pig on R1(and even tho most of the time he plays with perks he almost never uses add ons) and on Spirit he uses only shadowborn (but ofc Spirit is high tier so we can ignore that part) i could tell about myself but who cares about non streamer (no video proof for ppl like you)
and i know its not argument for you but i stopped using ruin like 10 months ago and noed like 14 months ago, never run pop on killers im used to play as which is pig, wraith, billy(i know billy is high tier but you cant say so about wraith)
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Hey, I am not saying it is a valid reason for to call it a 100% counter. I am just saying the logic behind their reasoning :)
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Think this mightve been an oversight since its litterally the only exception in the game where skillchecks dont autofail?
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WouldShould have been fixed by now if that was the case.0 -
Can you even spell? I coudn't read what you put. However, I was able to get a friend that speaks gibberish to decipher this. You dispute no facts, you only seem to be supporting the Survivor's right to be overpowered, i this sense. Come back and debate when you can spell, kid.
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couldn't*
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His point was that the survivor didnt appear at all to make any gesture to the gen yet it stopped regressing as she ran past WHITH OUT breaking running aniation(or as he put it waved her hips at it) lmao no surv should be able to do that (other than Jane but that's another point 😏)
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The solution is giving all killers overcharge as part of their base power instead of it being a perk.
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It's not an issue though, certainly not something that should be "fixed" by giving all killers overcharge by default.
If you're chasing someone and they tap a gen, they'll stop for a moment, it'll give you more time to gain ground, if you kick the gen several times when the survivor is there, then unfortunately you're a terrible killer and need to learn what to prioritise.
To often I see killers break chase to kick a 10% gen, some people are just bad, this is not a change that is needed at all.
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While I don't think overcharge should be base, the problem is that no, it's NOT giving you time to gain ground when a Survivor stops Regression.
It's taking 1/60th of a second to stop a Regressing generator. That in no way makes the Survivor lose ground.
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If a survivor hides, and you kick a gen but don't find them and you move on, you're never going to know when they got back on that gen.
If you're chasing a survivor, and you kick a gen in their face, and they tap it, it absolutely gives you precious time to catch up.
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They stop the Regression IN UNDER A SECOND.
So where's the 'precious time' to catch up on a tap, when said tap takes less than a frame of animation?
That's my whole argument here; Tapping. Takes. No. Time. Almost literally!
It takes 0.05 seconds to tap a generator. That's NO TIME LOST in a chase.
I mean, it is literally time lost, but it's, again, less than a frame of animation. Less than 1/60th of a second.
So, I ask you again; What time is lost in a chase when they can run by a generator and stop a regression without interrupting their sprint animation?
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if you don't understand that a survivor stopping for any amount of milliseconds during a chase is beneficial to a killer then I suggest you play more of the game.
Like I said, if you kick a gen and are in a chase, you are bad anyway, unless running PGTW.
if you're in a chase, and a survivor tap a gen and you don't capitalise on that then you're bad.
If you kick a gen, and get big sad because a survivor hid from you and touched it then they're only being rewarded for being stealthy.
The time to kick means nothing, a hit on a survivor is far more valuable than them stopping the regression on a gen, it's not as simple as "he took 3 seconds to kick the gen, but he took 1 less than a second to stop it". If you get a hit because dumb survivors stop mid chase to stop regression than it was more than worth the 3 seconds.
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I tap gens. My teammates swarm that gen like fruit flies on a peach. Killer is screwed 100% of the time. That gen I just tapped is getting finished no matter what the killer does. The only way the killer can stop it is if he stands next to the gen so it can regress which isn't an option for obvious reasons. And even then the survivors can protect the guy with the tool box. That gen is getting finished.
This makes overcharge, pop goes the weasel, STBFL, and surveillance absolutely necessary with gen tappers. And even than it can be a nightmare. Unfortunately a killer can't go to the basement to switch out perks mid-game. Unless you expect killers to predict the future.
It's also a horrible experience for a killer. Absolutely helpless while survivors flashlight click, and teabage all around you trying to get you to chase them so the gen can be finished. I've been on both sides of this experience, and let me tell you I feel no pressure, or challenge while doing this to a killer. It is a joke.
So I respectfully disagree.
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How can you capitalize on an action that's 2-3 times faster than the blink of an eye?
Just stop. The fact that Survivors can gen tap quite literally faster than the blink of an eye by a factor of 2 or 3 is BS and needs to be addressed.
There's no way to 'capitalize' on an event taking place 0.20ths of a second faster than the average human's reaction time.
(The average human's reaction time to visual stimuli is 0.25 seconds, whereas a Survivor can gen tap in 0.05 seconds. This is not factoring in latency)
So again; how do you react to something faster than you can react to it? Because, by this definition, that seems pretty impossible.
But sure, I need to 'play more' to 'capitalize' on an event literally faster than human reaction times. 🤔
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Didn't mess that up, messed up the in this sense part, typical jinxed myself 😐
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Why are you talking about reaction times? lmfao.
If you are moving towards a survivor who stops to interact, because all interactions cause a survivor to stop moving besides vaults then you're already "reacting" to it, your action o moving forward isn't impacted by their movement, but their character stopping to tap will decrease te distance between both characters.
I'm not saying you're seeing a survivor, your brains is thinking, and then you react to them tapping, you should already be moving towards them so them stopping to tap will cause the distance to lessen.
reaction time smh, lol.
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Honestly if they just made it where if you missed the skill check on overcharge it just keeps regressing unless they stay on it for like 5 seconds so the perk would have more of a use and would actually see frequent use
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I agree let's remove Gen regression.
Heck let's remove Gen progression. Why should I spend 80 seconds fixing a generator when I killer can tap it for 1/270th the time.and undo all my work?
Get over yourselves killers.
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Don't get rid of Regression. It's a core mechanic that needs to stay. I can't tell you how many times regression has saved my from losing a critical gen.
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Survivors: "Why should i waste 20 seconds healing a full health state when a killer can just regress it completely in one hit? This is completely broken and needs to be addressed. It should be the same! it should take the killer 20 seconds to injure me too!"
Do you see? Do you see what you sound like?
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There are perks that counter gen tapping. Overcharge and pop goes the weasel are the perfect tools to stop gen tapping.
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Problem here is that you can still tap even with overcharge because somehow you can still complete the skillcheck even when you have ran a mile away, for this reason its still not a counter because the skillcheck isn't hard to hit. Unless its a Doc.
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Yep. As with almost any "bullshit tactic" people get sick of, there is a guaranteed perk or two that would help deal with that particular issue. But nobody wants to change up their meta BBQ Ruin enduring spirit fury build. They just want to complain about how they didnt run surveillance or Franklin's and those damn kids got out with BNPs and a key.
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It's also been repeatedly stated that overcharge is not the only answer, given it's your best bet, and the fact remains: people refuse to swap out their meta for what would help them. This could be posted in easily 25% of the threads that pop up complaining about a specific mechanic they have issues with.
If anything, calling for a harsher regression would be a better idea. It would enable overcharge to still be efficient, as well as somewhat relieving the "gen rush". It also wouldnt prevent people from taking the risk of BEING HIT while running around a generator....
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I love that more than half the replies ignore the main point of my post:
Survivors should not be able to stop gen regressing in a single frame of animation.
Instead, it's more 'Typical Killer main' comments and 'Use <x> perk!' that could not miss the point harder if they tried.
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Overcharge is a trash perk that doesn't help the killer 99% of the time. No one should be forced to run a trash perk to fix bad game design, no one.
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