Why Not Tier 1 Perks?

@Dreamnomad I agree with you, but I am also very aware that this is partially Stockholm syndrome talking. They gave us a less bad thing to replace the really bad thing, but it's still not GOOD.

GOOD would be actually having everything you want unlocked in under 1,000 hours of play (that's almost 42 earth days), which you currently cannot do, unless maybe you are ridiculously optimized about your BP spending from the jump.

Why is destroying the game? If you're new of course you will need to work hard to get those perks, besides, let's say the perks are all tier I What happend about the players who unlocked all Tier III perks? They only get a "thank you for your effort"? And what happend when those people have all perks? What's the point of wasting points in the bloodweb? Because I'll have new objects? Then I run Plundered's instinct and Ace in the Hole and I have a good object with two good add-ons. I mean, one thing is making easier to get perks but you literally are killing the main objetive of bloodwebs and prestige.

@Caretaker Seems like the comment that I was going to write got erased for some reason but here we go, writing all of it again.

For start. Unless you're an obsesive collectionist, you don't need every perk in-game for every survivor in-game, the same applies for killers. Most players just go for the theachables only and then level their main.

About the maths, they are the "cold" and sad true but you're a bit mistaken with them.

Let's say the Stranger Thing DLC is in-game. That makes 71 survivor perks with 3 tiers each one. We will be using the current system of one perk per bloodweb

71 x 3 = 213 - 3 (because you have the base survivors perks at tier I) = 210 bloodwebs.

The next calculation you do this

210 x 50 k (this is the average of blood points wasted in bigs bloodwebs, mean level 40-50 ones) = 10,500,000 total BP to win every perk in the game with a single survivor

But, you commit the mistake of thinking that you spend 50 k in every single bloodweb. The next ones are the results of a survivor bloodwebs with a character with prestige level one (yes I don't have all characters prestiged).

In the first five ones I spend an average of 10k to 20k (19 k was the bigger honestly), from 5 to level 10 an average of 15k to 25k , from 11 to 15 an average from 20k to 25k, from level 16 to level 20 from 20k to 30k. I didn't go further from level 20 but let's assume you spend 50k points (wich is insane because the biggler bloodwebs start appearing at level 30 and not a lot of them until 40)

So, let's do maths and I'll assume you spend the maximun instead the average in the first blood webs. Shall we?

1 to 5 levels 20k * 5 bloodwebs = 100k

6 to 10 level 25k * 5 bloodwebs = 125k

11 to 15 level 25k * 5 bloodwebs = 125k

16 to 20 level 30k *5 bloodwebs = 150k

That makes you need 500k BP to reach level 20 and that's as an overstatenment. Generally you need 500k BP to reach level 30 and that happens even in prestige 3 that you need 350k as the highest value but I took the bigger numbers and not the average ones.

*If you prestige the survivors/killers you don't need to spend that big amount in the biggest bloodwebs to obtain all perks, when you simply reach level 50, go for the prestige so it will be easier and cheaper if we talk in BP as money

Let's assume you have to spend 500k BP to reach level 20 (wich as I said it's impossible)

So we already have 20 perks from the 210 bloodwebs, that means we have 190 bloodwebs left

190 * 50k of bloodpoints (and as I said 50k are in the biggest bloodwebs, so it's an overstatement) = 9,500,000 BP

Now, let's use the averages that means 500k BP for 30 levels (10 perks less to reach the biggest amount)

So 180 * 50k (again as an overstatement because from 30 to 50 the bloodwebs are smaller) =9,000,000 BP

Now, let's use the new bloodweb but just in the last 20 levels (We can grab two perks).

50K * 90 (we grab two perks in each bloodweb so we only need half of them) = 4,500,000 BP

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The grind needs to be lowered but this new system helps a lot to lower it

Let's change the values a bit

From level 30 to 40 mostly, you have an average from 35 to 40k of BP

Let's use the new system as well grabbing two perks in each level

20 * 40k =800,000 BP

So we only need 80 bloodwebs (180 perks - 20 = 160/2 , remember we need half of the total bloodwebs to obtain the 160 perks left)

80 * 50k = 4,000,000 BP

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I know the grind is absolutely big but the new system actually helps, maybe grabbing two perks from level 30 instead of 40 will be better.

Looking at the masses, I'm going to assume most players do not Prestige 3 every single killer and survivor and also get every single perk for them. That seems ridiculous.

I mean, whatever. Behaviour should figure out a way to:

a) Compress perks into one single tier apiece, because the 3-tier system serves no purpose outside of arbitrarily extending the grind, and makes it a significant hassle to pick up the perks you are looking for on any given character.

b) Reduce the barrier to unlocking teachable perks, because it forces a new player to commit an insane amount of BP and multiple characters to even have a shot at putting together a viable build on even one single character.

Maybe the current system is a no-go for these ideas, because a new player will run out of items after 14 levels or whatever. We're not asking you to hit that wall and give up on it, we're asking you to figure it out and fix it, because it's not player-friendly at all. Like I said earlier, this new change helps players who are knee-deep already -- but it does nothing to help newbies, nor does it do anything to let you target specific perks that you really want.

@Peanits Are you guys even on the same page about what an issue the grind is? Do you not believe a player should reasonably be able to unlock all perks on a survivor main plus the majority of killers inside of, say, 1,000 hours of play? I would love to hear Behaviour's perspective on it, and what you feel is a healthy and acceptable target for this kind of progress.

The only concern I have with this change is that you're still racing against the entity.

If, say, BBQ, Ruin, Monstrous Shrine and Insidious are on a web together, I can spend 4 nodes before the Entity starts, OR I can take a perk and another perk will be taken.

If I work my way up to BBQ and Ruin with the 4 nodes then take one, I still have no guarantee that the other won't be instantly taken and I'm still forced into taking a ######### perk. We also know how the bloodweb tends to target branches you've already started on.

Yes, it's going to be faster to collect ALL perks, but I feel like this system is going to be far more frustrating when we can see what we want and it can be taken away with less control than before.

I feel like all potential improvements and ideas are hamstrung by the existing structure, which isn't built to promote a reasonable and non-oppressive grind.

Maybe teachables could be dropped to levels 15, 20, and 25? Maybe at level 40+, you ONLY get offered tier 3 perks from the web? Why couldn't we have both of those?

I'm looking for ways to straight-up reduce the perk grind, full stop, with no catches. Behavior doesn't seem interested in entertaining that.

There are still other types of grinds. We still need items and offerings. Some players choose to prestige. There's going to be whatever the archives and rifts are. Just let us have reasonable access to all perks on all characters for a reasonable, healthy human time commitment.

Yeah, I think they have some wild fears about player retention. But they could reduce the perk grind while still requiring some effort, and also there are other types of grinds.

The bottom line is that at the newbie levels, even getting access to a decent selection of perks is too intimidating (which the upcoming change does not address at all). And at veteran levels, getting the specific perks you want on specific characters is totally random and unreasonable (which the upcoming change helps with...but this really should go much further).