Why Not Tier 1 Perks?
The change is good, but doesn't fix the problem. It'll help yes, but you're adding 9(6 for survivors) more perks. That's 18 more levels needed on a max level character. At rank 50 that's roughly almost 1mil BP at 900k. This change cuts that in half, but only at higher levels. Why not just make all perks tier 1? No one uses the lesser level perks, and most of the time they are worthless. Tier 1 perks would heavily alleviate the insane grind this game has, give people confidence to prestige, and still require a ton of playtime.
You could also add a recycler for offerings/addons that we won't use anymore. This would solve the clutter problem, let people get BP back for things they want, and also help alleviate the grind.
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I'm a little confused how you got the 18 more levels bit. Assuming we're talking about the survivor side with 6 new perks, that's a total of 18 nodes (6 perks x 3 tiers). Since you can get two perks per bloodweb now, that's only 9 levels. Not too shabby if you ask me.
Making all perks tier 1 would cause other issues. If you're new to the game and don't have all teachable perks, you would run out of perks to unlock by level 14 (survivor). Then you get nothing at all until you reach level 30, 35, and 40. It would be very unrewarding.
Lately, we've been updating perks to bring their tier 1 versions closer to the tier 3 versions. You don't need tier 3 Ruin to get the effects, for example, every version affects every survivor and the difference between the different tiers is very small.
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@Peanits 6 for the survivors, and yea, it helps late game grind and that is nice. However, that doesn't help new players at all. They still have to grind out 19 survivors to level 40 to open up more perks for their pool. If they just start out they don't have the free perks from the other survivors. So 14 would equal about 42, but a bad/useless perk won't really make even a new player that happy. It actually starts to feel bad after awhile.
They still have to obtain those extra perks, meaning they're not getting new perks anyway so I'm not sure if that'd be a huge problem to just soak up some items. Not to mention a lot of people tend to stick to specific metas anyway. I've noticed the updates, but I still say tier 1 perks would solve a lot of the grind issues.
It's roughly 1.20~mil to get level 40, so 22,800,000 BP to unlock every teachable. Now imagine trying to get one to P3. That's another 4,500,000 BP just to get to P3 assuming you get perfect webs and only need 1.5mil to hit 50.
Now, you don't get perks every early level, but you do get more than og webs, but iirc there are still dead webs with no perks. So that wouldn't add to the overall perk total which is 57 teachables+15 open pool perks. That's 216 levels, per survivor. Assuming level 50 with a perk in EVERY web, which I'm pretty sure can't happen is 166 levels left. 50k~ to get a full web at 50. So if we go off new webs that's 83 levels needed, which is 4,150,000 BP to max out. 74,700,000 to max all survivors assuming they are level 50, and excluding the P3 grind.
This doesn't even cover if you want to prestige/max out killers. So, sorry but I don't see the new change as much of a fix to anything. Especially with the updates to make low tier perks nearly identical to their tier 3 counterpart. I'll be honest it seems like there is no actual desire to fix the grind and we're gonna be forced to just dredge along through awful perks to finally finish a build, and then even more grinding to say, "I maxed out x character(s)."
This fix doesn't even help new players. Easy fix to the, "No perks from 14-30." Change the way the perks show up. Every 2 levels you get a perk. Boom. Easy fix.
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I think a smarter idea would be to keep tier's same, but to add extra chance that you can gain 2 tiers from single BloodWeb on a perk. so for example, if your lucky, you can start with level 2 Hex:Ruin instead level 1 hex:ruin so average, less blood-webs are needed to max a character with all perks.
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Didn't get to slap this on the wall of math and text, but give us a recycler. There are hundreds of thousands of useless offerings/addons. Let us just munch them for 50% return, or hell even 25%, anything. Dev streams have mentioned clutter, and this would not only help the grind, but the clutter as well.
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Yeah. When are you guys announcing changes to the grind?
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They did announce it. At 40 you get 3 perks in the web, can grab 2. At 50 you get 4 perks per web, can grab 2.That's the fix.
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Having looked at the impact this will have on my ongoing killer perk libraries, I think it's going to be a pretty big improvement. I currently have 53 killer perks unlocked; under the current system I need to clear 90 more Bloodwebs to have my full inventory at tier 3 on Freddy. Once this change goes into effect, this will be cut in half, and I'll only need to clear 45 more Bloodwebs. That's a LOT more reasonable for a single killer.
The key issue is, this change only really helps players who are already knee-deep in the Bloodweb economy. New players still have no path to "really playing" -- that is, getting a selection of competitive perks on even a single survivor or killer without deeply leveling a bunch of characters.
This is why I think that it would be helpful to bring down the level threshold for unlocking teachable perks. If I'm a new player and I want to get, for example, Self-Care (Claudette level 40), Bond (Dwight level 30), and Sprint Burst (Meg level 35) because of advice I have received from players, I have to commit 105 levels across three characters. That's before I can even begin to evaluate whether I enjoy that particular combination.
Like I said, this change is going to be helpful -- specifically, for players like me, who are already in the trenches. But Behaviour needs to go further to make the grind less intimidating for new players.
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That's why I say just make them a single tier. Getting them earlier is nice, but you still have to grind them out and get to 40 to access the new webs to even get extra perks. I have all killers P3, and for every single one I want to level up or try to get a build on this sadly won't help. Seeing as many of them are at level 1 this change won't even help me out and I'd say I'm pretty deep in the economy. +That's just one side. There's the 19 survivors to consider, and what 17 killers now?
Also a recycler would make prestiging not as bad, and would let you dump the offerings you'll never use, Haddnofun on killers? Who's gonna use that outside of a meme? There's a lot of fixes, but to say this is to help new players, or we can't do the tier 1s cuz it hurts them is a bit disingenuous.
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@Caretaker Yeah, I've also suggested a single-tier perk solution a few times, but they keep falling back on this "Oh but players would run out of perks to get" rationale. I think the whole Bloodweb system needs to be re-evaluated and reworked for the good of the game.
A recycler would be a great idea, too. I suspect they would be skittish about adding any kind of "anti gold sink" mechanic, though.
EDIT: Oh, and I should clarify that all my feedback and concerns presumes that the player is NEVER prestiging, because that makes everything wantonly oppressive, and it's never a good idea if you value your time as a human. That sucks, and players should feel like there's a good incentive to prestige.
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Funny enough back in the old days before they wiped Discord clean of anyone not a CM we had a big discussion about this. The main reason that got them turned off about this idea of tier 1 perks. Was cries for compensation aka Legacy. A lot of people were upset that they'd have wasted so much time grinding and kept bringing it up. Despite the vote being 54% for Tier 1 perks they deleted the channel, discussion, and never brought it up again.
This was about a year ago I think? Possibly 2? I do find it kinda hilarious they keep bringing up new players as the reasoning behind a lot of changes, but this game is extremely unhealthy for a new player. Horrible grind to catch up, matchmaking can dump a full loadout killer on you with hundreds if not thousands of hours.
My idea for recycler was 50% back, even event items can be recycled. I'd be fine with 25%, I'd even possibly buckle at 10% for extra BP. I wanna be able to just roulette all my killers, and have a couple survivors maxed out for when I wanna swap, but I can't do that. I'm 1800+ in with multiple events and still barely have 8 killers maxed, a max survivor, a few prestiges on them, and all my killers P3. This game's grind makes japanese MMOs look like a breeze. I've never seen a grind this bad before.
I imagine they're scared if they cut the grind people will stop playing, but if they were to address the grind properly through tier 1 perks, and other incentives people would actually play more. They wouldn't be scared to prestige, or use their items, or anything. This change just feels really knee jerk and I'm pretty sure they took it off one of the social medias as I've seen it quite a few times floating around.
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@Caretaker God, I JUST posted in another thread to all these ME WANT PWEASENT people screaming for Legacy skins over this rework. Behaviour just needs to ignore those people and make the changes they need to make for the game's long-term health.
Obligatory reminder to anyone reading: The forum community and Discord community are not representative of the player base at large. We are aberrations, because we care deeply enough to be here to talk about this one specific game in such obsessive detail. Our feelings and opinions on this game inevitably tend toward the extremes. The majority of players are like, normal people. A better Bloodweb experience would broadly benefit everyone.
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For this? No, this is 100% not a legacy worth rework of the bloodwebs. Now, all tier 1 perks? Sure, and my solution to that was simply don't rush it, give it to people in a year when you've got time. Make a legacy cosmetic DLC, that'd make bank. Give people a huge BP bonus that extends past the cap. Give people a massive chunk of Auric Cells for characters/skins.
I don't really care, I just want Tier 1 perks so I can finally max out all my killers, and actually consider maxing out a few survivors that I enjoy playing. Right now I am 100% focused on killers cuz there's just no way to do them all without pouring another 2-3k hours into the game. Tier 1 perks would be good for everyone, more manageable bloodwebs would greatly improve the health of the game.
No more 160 levels before you get that one perk you need to get to Tier 3.
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This really is a massive and welcome change. Having 4 perks to choose from and being able to acquire 2 per bloodweb is awesome. That cuts the workload in half! The next low hanging fruit that I would like to see them pick is to make it so when a character has all three of their teachable perks unlocked, the player can choose to toggle off one perk from showing up in the bloodweb. This will allow players some room to "unmuddy the waters" so to speak and reduce the long term penalty for short term decisions.
So for example, if I have every teachable perk unlocked on every killer, I would have the option to toggle one perk for each killer. That would be like 15 less perks showing up in my future bloodwebs that I'm not all that interested in. But after I've got all the available perks on all the killers and there are a few weeks before new content comes out, I could untoggle some perks to unlock on my favorite killer. Then when the new killer comes out, toggle those perks off again and increase the good perk likelyhood when grinding out the new killer. Does that make sense?
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Did you read the math I put out? It's still 4.5mil and doesn't help new players in the slightest. You also still have 17 killers to grind out, 19 survivors, and still might not get the perks you want.
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It is still HALF the current workload! That is basically the equivalent workload when there were only EIGHT killers available. That's about when I started playing. It wasn't nearly the grind then! If you bothered reading what I wrote at all then you'll see that I'm still in favor of reasonable changes to reduce it further as well. But I am excited about this change. It is a huge step in the right direction.
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@Dreamnomad I agree with you, but I am also very aware that this is partially Stockholm syndrome talking. They gave us a less bad thing to replace the really bad thing, but it's still not GOOD.
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I read what you said, was just saying. Also, you only get half workload on 40+ killers, so not really HALF the workload. And this doesn't affect prestige either so. Hopefully we get more changes to actually fix the grind.
This 100%. It's like tossing someone's ice cream in the dirt, and spraying it off with a hose. Yea it's clean, but it's still awful. (I'm tired and can't think of a better analogy.)
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GOOD would be actually having everything you want unlocked in under 1,000 hours of play (that's almost 42 earth days), which you currently cannot do, unless maybe you are ridiculously optimized about your BP spending from the jump.
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I agree sooooooooo dam much
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I did the math, if I got to recycle all the worthless stuff I don't use on survivors I'd have enough BP to fully P3, and max out a killer. We need this.
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Are you serious? Please don’t tell us that you are basing the ENTIRE Bloodweb on the first character that a new player levels. Also, what you stated is absolutely FALSE! Including the general perks, there is no freaking way that any player could get all of the available perks by level 14. You might want to fact-check that response.
You guys need to seriously think about how you are destroying the game, instead of shoveling us these kinds of answers. BTW, a new player would LOVE to only have to worry about addons and offerings for those few levels, if it were true.
EDIT: I give up. You read the post completely wrong @Peanits . I was referring to way you are making changes, as opposed to how the community agrees that changes should be made. The OPs idea is perfect. Your implementation barely does anything. Plus, the random perk(s) taken away, may be one of the ones you want. I posted a more perfect system last year, using tokens, which would also be better if all perks had only 1 tier.
Post edited by Kaelum on1 -
Base pool for survivors is 15 levels. So assuming you don't get a single dead web, it'd be about level 15~. However this is easily alleviated by making the web drop a new perk every 2 levels. So 2-4-6-8-etc. This way you'd get perks up to 30, then a teachable at 30, last perk at 32, teachable at 35, and your final teachable at 40. +A lot of items/addons to fool around with. I've only done the math on survivor side, but I imagine this could work fine for killer side as well.
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I went ahead and fact checked it just to be safe.
Dark Sense, Deja Vu, Hope, Kindred, Lightweight, No One Left Behind, Plunderer's Instinct, Premonition, Resilience, Slippery Meat, Small Game, Spine Chill, This Is Not Happening, and We'll Make It.
That is every single generic survivor perk. 14 in total. If you were to get one perk per level, that would take 14 levels. You do not start with teachable perks. All three of your unique perks start unlocked.
I'm sorry that you feel like adding more perks to the bloodweb is destroying the game. If you like, I can pass that feedback on to the team. Though this has been a suggestion made many times by the community over the years and we have decided to implement it into the game. While it may not be your ideal solution, it is one that a lot of people have wanted to see for quite a while.
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Ah, buddy added Left Behind in the list, so yea, 14. There's an easy fix to that though, @Peanits . Make perks pop up every 2 levels. Even new players can tell most of those generic perks are awful, and they won't use them again. Most people know what perks they want/which to go for to have a good build to start with. So, I'm sorry it's a very easy to fix and perks aren't even that rewarding early on. Doesn't fix 90% of the grind either, and the fix doesn't do anything to help new players as you suggested.
I'm sorry if you think we dislike this change. We don't, but it doesn't fix anything aside from people who have already dumped tons of hours into the game. Technically doesn't even help some of them either. Cuz you'd either need to max a character at 50 and not prestige, or hit prestige 3-40 to even have this really be worthwhile. Which is still a massive grind ignoring unlocking teachables, and perks on EVERY killer/survivor maxed. +3 extra perks is 9 levels, so you get 2 per web. Meaning it cuts about 4 webs of grinding. Saves about 200k.
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Except it doesn't help new players? Like, at all? Even vets don't get any use out of this if their characters aren't 40+, or if they're trying to prestige. The only time this is really efficient or helpful is someone trying to max out a character without prestiging, or someone who finally hit P3, got to level 40, and then it helps. So, no it's not a good fix at all.
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@Caretaker It does when they level up multiple characters to get their unique teachables to put on their mains.
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Why is destroying the game? If you're new of course you will need to work hard to get those perks, besides, let's say the perks are all tier I What happend about the players who unlocked all Tier III perks? They only get a "thank you for your effort"? And what happend when those people have all perks? What's the point of wasting points in the bloodweb? Because I'll have new objects? Then I run Plundered's instinct and Ace in the Hole and I have a good object with two good add-ons. I mean, one thing is making easier to get perks but you literally are killing the main objetive of bloodwebs and prestige.
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Yea, you get those perks at 40, meaning if you're leveling to get a teachable and nothing else, then no. This literally doesn't affect at you at all. Except for that one main character. It cuts 4 webs, or 200k worth of BP.
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There's actually a catch to that as well: If they showed up every other level, you'd still have quite a bit of grind. Just going to use the survivor side as an example again:
65 perks, one every other level. That's a total of 130 levels.
Currently, you would need 195 levels.
With the bloodweb change proposed, you would need 118 levels.
(One level for each perk between 1-40, then one level for two perks for the rest.)
If you compare having a single fully leveled perk every other level and the bloodweb change that's coming, it would actually take a few more levels. You'd also still run out of perks at level 28 as a new player, for what it's worth.
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Did you read the thread? I want you to look at the math. 74,700,000 to max all survivors assuming they are level 50, and excluding the P3 grind and teachable unlock grind. Does that look healthy to you or even possible?
If the perks are all dropped to tier 1, then you can get some form of compensation through a skin, auric cells, shards, or BP. I don't care about compensation, cuz I want to actually be able to prestige/max out my characters without wasting hundreds if not thousands of hours to finally unlock everything.
Also, do you watch any streams at all? There are people who literally just dump BP into the same killer/survivor that's been maxed out for months. They don't level anyone else. They just level the same characters and hoard addons/items. You run Plunder/Ace, but that's you. A new player won't have those. Also, I'm not killing the main objective you are literally just exaggerating for the sake of it.
There is 19 survivors, and 17 killers. It takes 1.5mil~ BP to prestige, that's 4.5~mil BP to prestige 3. 50k~ BP to fill out a bloodweb assuming you get good RNG. 216 levels of perks on the survivor side. That's roughly 1.5mil~ to hit 50, then after assuming no dead webs with no perks which they do show up, you'd still need 166 levels, 83 with these proposed changes. That's 4.15mil BP~ to get all perks unlocked. 5.65mil BP to get P3 all perks unlocked with the new system.
This is also assuming you've gotten every surv to 40 to unlock their teachables, which is roughly 1.25~mil BP. That's 23,750,000 BP, which this new system doesn't affect at all. Read that again. THIS NEW SYSTEM DOESN'T HELP THAT GRIND AT ALL! So, no my proposed change wouldn't kill the main objective, or prestige, or anything. In fact many people refuse to prestige cuz the grind is so absurdly bad. Prestige isn't special either, it's bloody clothes, and 3% extra rarity increase in the webs.
BHVR sells cosmetics, prestiging isn't worth anything anymore bar bragging rights and a grind to keep you playing the game if you're into that. However, if that goal is unobtainable then people might just forego it, and even quit like many of my friends have due to the horrible balance, and the insane grind. Now, fun fact, everything I mentioned is just the survivor side. Imagine wanting to prestige 3 all killers, and unlock all their teachable, and max them out? Killers aren't skins either, so you can't just pick one and have the same build or experience.
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Sorry, I meant to say up to 30. After 30 you'd get a perk every level. My bad for the mix-up, I thought I'd typed that out. Also, my math was with the 15, again my mistake. Either way you'd get a teachable at 30 so that would kinda work out better.
If it were just to go 2 every level, then even out at 30, 1 perk per level, you'd have a bit of a dryspell if you were a new player, but overall it would cut the grind once you unlock teachables. Either way, the new system doesn't help new players, or even a some of the vets who don't have 40+ characters. You could even implement this system as well so a new player could feel confident about leveling up and prestiging multiple killers. I'd actually get to level mine which would be fantastic.
After fixing my wording that'd be roughly 28 perks at 30, teachable at 30, 35, 40, so 8 perks in between those, then you'd need 37 levels after 40, so 77 levels overall. Which is totally manageable, and makes prestige much more enticing. Meaning more healthy grind, and new players can prestige/level faster too.
Thanks for catching my mistake in my fix. All fixed now would be 77 vs 118.
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I think if you work it out... You'd be looking at roughly a 40% reduction in the bloodweb grind for both sides.
At first when I read the changes, I didn't think it would be much.. but 40% seems like a good reduction. When trying to get all the perks on a character.
That is if... You get 1 perk per level up to 39... Then get 2 perks per level after that.
That also doesn't factor in prestiging.
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Doesn't factor prestiging, or the grind to unlock every single teachable. 57 for survivors, 51 for killers, so 108 teachables over all. That adds an extra 153 levels for killers, 171 levels for survivors. If you factor in 3 levels per teachable, and not the teachables being unlocked.
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@Caretaker but yeah it helps more for grinding after level 40... so new players still need to spend allot of time to unlock those teachables. Since the changes doesn't really help with that.
Would almost just be better not to have to unlock teachables through the web. Just buying the character should automatically make their teachables available. If they wanted to help the newers players more.
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@Caretaker Seems like the comment that I was going to write got erased for some reason but here we go, writing all of it again.
For start. Unless you're an obsesive collectionist, you don't need every perk in-game for every survivor in-game, the same applies for killers. Most players just go for the theachables only and then level their main.
About the maths, they are the "cold" and sad true but you're a bit mistaken with them.
Let's say the Stranger Thing DLC is in-game. That makes 71 survivor perks with 3 tiers each one. We will be using the current system of one perk per bloodweb
71 x 3 = 213 - 3 (because you have the base survivors perks at tier I) = 210 bloodwebs.
The next calculation you do this
210 x 50 k (this is the average of blood points wasted in bigs bloodwebs, mean level 40-50 ones) = 10,500,000 total BP to win every perk in the game with a single survivor
But, you commit the mistake of thinking that you spend 50 k in every single bloodweb. The next ones are the results of a survivor bloodwebs with a character with prestige level one (yes I don't have all characters prestiged).
In the first five ones I spend an average of 10k to 20k (19 k was the bigger honestly), from 5 to level 10 an average of 15k to 25k , from 11 to 15 an average from 20k to 25k, from level 16 to level 20 from 20k to 30k. I didn't go further from level 20 but let's assume you spend 50k points (wich is insane because the biggler bloodwebs start appearing at level 30 and not a lot of them until 40)
So, let's do maths and I'll assume you spend the maximun instead the average in the first blood webs. Shall we?
1 to 5 levels 20k * 5 bloodwebs = 100k
6 to 10 level 25k * 5 bloodwebs = 125k
11 to 15 level 25k * 5 bloodwebs = 125k
16 to 20 level 30k *5 bloodwebs = 150k
That makes you need 500k BP to reach level 20 and that's as an overstatenment. Generally you need 500k BP to reach level 30 and that happens even in prestige 3 that you need 350k as the highest value but I took the bigger numbers and not the average ones.
*If you prestige the survivors/killers you don't need to spend that big amount in the biggest bloodwebs to obtain all perks, when you simply reach level 50, go for the prestige so it will be easier and cheaper if we talk in BP as money
Let's assume you have to spend 500k BP to reach level 20 (wich as I said it's impossible)
So we already have 20 perks from the 210 bloodwebs, that means we have 190 bloodwebs left
190 * 50k of bloodpoints (and as I said 50k are in the biggest bloodwebs, so it's an overstatement) = 9,500,000 BP
Now, let's use the averages that means 500k BP for 30 levels (10 perks less to reach the biggest amount)
So 180 * 50k (again as an overstatement because from 30 to 50 the bloodwebs are smaller) =9,000,000 BP
Now, let's use the new bloodweb but just in the last 20 levels (We can grab two perks).
50K * 90 (we grab two perks in each bloodweb so we only need half of them) = 4,500,000 BP
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The grind needs to be lowered but this new system helps a lot to lower it
Let's change the values a bit
From level 30 to 40 mostly, you have an average from 35 to 40k of BP
Let's use the new system as well grabbing two perks in each level
20 * 40k =800,000 BP
So we only need 80 bloodwebs (180 perks - 20 = 160/2 , remember we need half of the total bloodwebs to obtain the 160 perks left)
80 * 50k = 4,000,000 BP
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I know the grind is absolutely big but the new system actually helps, maybe grabbing two perks from level 30 instead of 40 will be better.
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Again as I said, you don't really need every perk in-game with every survivor. Let's be realistic How much perks do you use? I think I am using the same 5 or 6 perks from months. The SWF teams keep running Adrenaline, DS, BT so they can get new perks but they will likely use the same.
The same goes for new players, they test perks and when they see one that likes them, then they will use it even if they have another 50 perks in-game
Also, there are no dead bloodwebs, every bloodweb gives you at least one perk (even if it's useless).
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Looking at the masses, I'm going to assume most players do not Prestige 3 every single killer and survivor and also get every single perk for them. That seems ridiculous.
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Wanna know why most people don't prestige? It's cuz the grind is absolutey ridiculous and puts Chinese MMOs to shame. If the grind was somewhat manageable and accessible to even the hardcore players then they'd probably prestige.
The new system only helps once you break level 40. New players won't get the full benefit of this as they still have to not only buy/unlock those characters, but get them to 40 as well. Which is why I say this system doesn't help new players at all and mine would.
That'd be a neat fix. Definitely would be nice to not waste a level on teachables.
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I mean, whatever. Behaviour should figure out a way to:
a) Compress perks into one single tier apiece, because the 3-tier system serves no purpose outside of arbitrarily extending the grind, and makes it a significant hassle to pick up the perks you are looking for on any given character.
b) Reduce the barrier to unlocking teachable perks, because it forces a new player to commit an insane amount of BP and multiple characters to even have a shot at putting together a viable build on even one single character.
Maybe the current system is a no-go for these ideas, because a new player will run out of items after 14 levels or whatever. We're not asking you to hit that wall and give up on it, we're asking you to figure it out and fix it, because it's not player-friendly at all. Like I said earlier, this new change helps players who are knee-deep already -- but it does nothing to help newbies, nor does it do anything to let you target specific perks that you really want.
@Peanits Are you guys even on the same page about what an issue the grind is? Do you not believe a player should reasonably be able to unlock all perks on a survivor main plus the majority of killers inside of, say, 1,000 hours of play? I would love to hear Behaviour's perspective on it, and what you feel is a healthy and acceptable target for this kind of progress.
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@Rydog How do you feel about that fix to my change? Tier 1 perks. Every 2 levels you gain a perk up to 30. Then you get a perk every level. This would cut it down to roughly 77 levels per character, ignoring the usual teachable grind which with this change and possibly a recycler would be totally fine and still keep the grind intact.
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The only concern I have with this change is that you're still racing against the entity.
If, say, BBQ, Ruin, Monstrous Shrine and Insidious are on a web together, I can spend 4 nodes before the Entity starts, OR I can take a perk and another perk will be taken.
If I work my way up to BBQ and Ruin with the 4 nodes then take one, I still have no guarantee that the other won't be instantly taken and I'm still forced into taking a ######### perk. We also know how the bloodweb tends to target branches you've already started on.
Yes, it's going to be faster to collect ALL perks, but I feel like this system is going to be far more frustrating when we can see what we want and it can be taken away with less control than before.
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Cuz this doesn't affect new players at all, nor does it even touch the ridiculous grind it takes to get to 40, and even enough perks for this to be meaningful to a new or even a vet like me with every perk unlocked. It shaves a good chunk, but I still have to grind new characters, get others to 40+. There's still an insane grind left.
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I feel like all potential improvements and ideas are hamstrung by the existing structure, which isn't built to promote a reasonable and non-oppressive grind.
Maybe teachables could be dropped to levels 15, 20, and 25? Maybe at level 40+, you ONLY get offered tier 3 perks from the web? Why couldn't we have both of those?
I'm looking for ways to straight-up reduce the perk grind, full stop, with no catches. Behavior doesn't seem interested in entertaining that.
There are still other types of grinds. We still need items and offerings. Some players choose to prestige. There's going to be whatever the archives and rifts are. Just let us have reasonable access to all perks on all characters for a reasonable, healthy human time commitment.
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I 100% agree. The grind is here to keep people playing, but the problem is it's so unhealthy for new players and even old alike that it ends up killing any will to grind or really put effort into it. What about my ideas, and we can drop teachables to 20-25-30? That way you'd unlock your perk slots, AND look forward to teachables right after. Plus you'd get access to all the perks much faster. 10 less levels per character.
I'll be honest, I don't think they want to fix the grind. I think they want it as an artificial way to inflate playtime, but if the grind wasn't so bad people would play more, and actually have achievable goals. Mine is all killers P3, all perks. I want every character P3, all perks, but it's just not feasible to do both sides without thousands of hours.
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Yeah, I think they have some wild fears about player retention. But they could reduce the perk grind while still requiring some effort, and also there are other types of grinds.
The bottom line is that at the newbie levels, even getting access to a decent selection of perks is too intimidating (which the upcoming change does not address at all). And at veteran levels, getting the specific perks you want on specific characters is totally random and unreasonable (which the upcoming change helps with...but this really should go much further).
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I currently have 993 hours played, according to my Steam profile. Let's cut that by 25% for time spent in queues, or forgetting that I have the game running in the background (which I do a lot). That's roughly 750 hours.
I have 28 of 51 survivor teachables unlocked, with tier 3 of all currently accessible perks on one single main. I have 41 of 48 killer teachables unlocked, with tier 3 of all currently accessible perks on Spirit. My next-most-developed killer, Nightmare, will require another 45 webs to reach this state AFTER this change goes live. I've never prestiged any character.
Also, I've been playing since November 2018. That's an average of about 75 hours per month, which I suspect is a pretty huge commitment for a normal person -- again, our main target audience.
It's effing stupid that, given this, I do not have all teachables unlocked, and even if I did I would barely even have them all available for one survivor and more importantly ONE KILLER.
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It really should. It's going to take me 2.4mil~+ to get Steven and Nancy to level 40 as well as unlocking their teachables. Then another roughly 900k~+, possibly 1mil depending on the RNG to get my P3 Feng all the perks again. So about 3.4milBP+~ Just to catch up one character out of 19. That still need to be prestiged.
I'm sorry, I forgot to add the new system, so 2 perks per web, so still 450k~+BP to max out Feng again. So, still roughly 3mil~+ BP just to get one character back to max. That's 3 BP caps just to catch up as a vet player. Assuming I get perfect 32,000 BP matches, no offerings that's 31+ matches just to earn the BP.
Another way to fix this would be uncap the BP, and actually bump up BP rewards/gains all around. Have more events, anything. I stand by the Tier 1/20-25-30 teachables idea though. +A recycler of course cuz god that'd be insanely helpful for trash offerings/addons. Also, another thing I love is bringing up weak killers, BHVR's response is usually, "Just use addons." However, a lot of them aren't even that good, they sometimes don't show up, are high rarity level, and/or new players won't have them. +This grind doesn't help that, but mine would.
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Exactly the grind and this fix is absurd. It'll help vets with 40+ level characters, but doesn't actually address the grind at all. I'm at 1800+ hours. I've got every killer to P3, 8 maxed atm, some hovering around 10-25-40~ish. I've got Nea P2, Ash/Meg P1, and Feng P3 all perks, all teachables on both sides unlocked. That's including me playing right before Legacy ending, all the events after, and all the BP bonus events after. I'm STILL struggling to catch up/even remotely achieve my goal.
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