Mettle of Man. Can we get to an agreement?
Ok. This has been an hot topic for a while. Before the nerf it was one if not the best perk in the game. After the nerf this perk is just completely worthless. I am not, and i dont want to argue about this. What i want is finding an agreement on how this perk should be.
Some people don't want it to be touched again saying "it deserve to be useless forever". Well, this is not good for the game. This is not healty for the game. Balancing is a thing, destroying is another.
What i want to do with this thread is ask for your opinions, ideas and suggestions for making this perk at least usable.
I know there are plenty others bad perks out there. Most of them are bad or useless, but there isnt any other perks that gives you such a big disadvantage like mettle of man does... aside from no mither, but that's another thing.
I have decided to add the best ideas here, so that everyone can see and discuss them as well as mine. I want to make this thread as most interactive as possible.
I will start it by giving my suggestion. I discussed this a bit on the official discord with other good player and most of them agreed that this is a good change. I want to know your point of view over this as well as others good suggestions.
Mettle of Man :
Evil has a way of always finding you.
After the killer damage you 3 times with a basic attack, Mettle of Man activates.
Once activated, your Aura will be revealed to the Killer when you are farther than 32 metres from the Killer.
the next damage inflicted by the killer is ignored and the perk will deactivate.
So, the biggest changes i made are
-killer sees your aura before you get hit, so he will know that you have this perk.
-you doesnt have to be injured to activate mettle of man, this gives more counterplay to the killer, as well as countering all one-shot down.
-you can use it multiple time in a match, even if is actually really hard to survive after 6 basic attack. Anyways, the killer has now more counterplay to it. (Or maybe you can't. I am not really sure about this)
-mettle of man doesn't give you the obsession anymore. There wasnt a really reason aside from "letting the killer know you have it" now, the killer will always know if the perk is active.
Since a lot of people asked which counterplay i am reffering to :
1- you get a lot of information by seeing a constant aura. These information could compare or even be better than an extra hit in some cases and with some killer. Is important to remember that it still a perk slot for the survivor, and completely counter a perk is something that should never happen (same for some killers perks or even power.. looking at you doc)
2- you can get a first hit and ignore the chase. The biggest problem with old MoM was that the surivor were able to choose when to use it. Now he can not take advantage of 99% healing or stuff like that.
So... let me know what you guys think about it
@Karltastisk suggestion
You lose all the stacks by getting hooked.
I really like this one, since it will rewards a more "escape the chase" playstile. We need some variety and this seem a really cool things that unfortunately survivors doesnt do a lot (especially because of map design).
Comments
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I have a question, does this perk cause exhaustion ?
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I don't understand what the devs where thinking.
Both when they introduced a game breaking perk, and when they nerfed it into nothing. And it's only nothing because survivors are too pussy to take safety hits.
My MOM Buff:
MOM becomes primed after you've been hooked once.
While injured MOM activates. You can get hit one extra time while injured. Each hit from the killer gives you the aura of all survivors, palletes, and gens. However; you cannot heal (Broken status), and you suffer exhausted status. Essentially giving the survivor 4 chances (Must be hit 4 times from a healthy state).
You may reactivate MOM only by entering a locker after the first MOM stage, but if you get greedy like that the killer can mori you if they down you. After the mori of the MOM user all other survivors are exposed for 45 seconds.
MOM has no resistance against insta down killers, or exposed status.
MOM is disabled during end game. The Killer can't mori while MOM is disabled unless They've got a perk, or offering.
MOM is disabled while working on a gen, or totem, and stays disabled 3 seconds after leaving the object. (To avoid abuse)
This makes MOM extremely powerful again with a high risk high reward factor. Survivors can have their cake, and killers can get a slice.
Just my unbiased opinion.
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It didnt cause exhaustion and it wouldn't cause it in my suggestion
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Then what are you complaining about you ?
This mean if you had it and add DH you can get a double iframe before even getting damage no ?
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I don't really like this concept for 2 reasons.
1 to complicate. BHVR always tries to make perks simple with one or two effect in some instances. Your suggestion is... everything putted together.
2 you are not the only one who take the risk. Unhooked, perk active, you get hit, he keep chasing, you jump in a locker and get out, another hit, he catch you because you made a mistake. Mori, 3 players left in match, the rest of your team is in high disadvantage, also 45 second of exposed.
You are killing the team as well as killing yourself, and this is not good for the game.
I do like the high risk high reward concept... but this is too much in my opinion
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I havent complained about anything. Did i?
Also for DH you mean dead hard, right? I don't see the problem. Assuming you are talking about my suggestion, you are full health with MoM active. The killer hit you but the damage get ingored, he hit you again and you go into injured state, he reach you, Dead Hard, hit you again, you are on the ground.
This if the killer choose to keep chasing after getting rid of MoM.
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My point is you complaining saying it is under powered when you just said you can get a double iframe...
Wouldn't you just like an invincible status gifted to your account instead ?
If two iframe in a row can't save you...nothing will...
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You're right. You'd have to come off the hook healed, with maybe a 5% speed boost.
And instead of exposed status for 45 seconds, it could be the killer seeing all the survivors auras for 7 seconds.
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It is underpowered in his current state.
The description of the perk that i left in the post is my idea, not the current perk. This is the actual version in case you don't know that.
Mettle of Man :
Evil has a way of always finding you.
After you earn 3 Protection Hit Score Events, Mettle of Man activates.
Once activated, the next occasion that would put you into the Dying State
from the Injured State
is ignored.
The next time you heal back to full health, your Aura will be revealed to the Killer when you are farther than 12/14/16 metres from the Killer.
Mettle of Manwill deactivate the next time you are put into the Dying State.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessedwith one Survivor at a time.
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This look already better. Mori still a big thing to deal with, but you get a lot of advantages out of it. I have no idea how it would actually be balanced, but its a cool concept!
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I'm sorry but knowing about the possibility of 2 iframe I cannot agree.
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What do you mean with iframe? Sorry for my ignorance.
Anyways, as i said, this post is not for discuss about how strong/weak MoM is/was, but to find a way to make it fair and enjoyable for both sides
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"Invincibility frame" as in for example when you activate DH and no matter what you won't take any damage.
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No, just no. It already did activate after 3 basic hits, that's why everyone who didn't abuse it (and even some who did) wanted it nerfed, it was guaranteed to activate unless you tunneled the guy to death after first hook and it was for all intents and purposes a free hit to tank. Being able to be seen from a certain distance away doesn't mean anything when the game is over and the gates are open, it would take so long to kill a good survivor running this with dead hard and decisive that it was a lost cause trying to kill someone with that loadout unless you just mori'd the trashcan, problem is everyone ran it meaning it wasn't just one guy it was usually all 4. Making it to where you could see if someone has it ready doesn't mean anything because if they want you to hit them they can bodyblock with ease and make sure you waste time on them. The perk was destroyed for a reason and honestly it earned it for how disgustingly overpowered it was but I agree having a totally useless perk isn't a good thing. Here's my idea for a rework, 3 or 4 combined protection hits and safe unhooks and the perk will activate how it is now, just make it actually possible to activate without throwing your life away (so 2 safe unhooks and 2 protection hits makes it activate).
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I already agreed with the fact that it was broken. Never said the opposite.
Being able to knos in advance if a survivor has it give more conterplay for these reasons
1 you always see him but he dont see you, is not like object of obsession. Having a constant aura reading is really powerfull, espacially for a stealth killer.
2 most killer that had problems with the old MoM are killer good to take a first hit, but that have an hars time to close a chase. With this change, they will be the best at countering MoM since it goes away with the first it.
Letting it activate with safe unhooks like it did in the PTB is a good idea in my opinion and i would be fine with that.
Most killers complained when it came out, and i want to find a solution so everyone (or at least who has a brain) like and enjoy the new version.
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That's my bad then, I was just uber tired it does kinda make sense now.
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Im sorry OP but i fail to see how the killer can counter this idea. Even tho the aura is before if it counters all damage even oneshots then how is it countered? and the fact it can be used multiplie times is also a bad idea. It should maybe work like this instead. For every 3 health states inflicted by the killer you gain the ability to ignore the next attack. Stacks reset when hooked. This way if you manage to survive 3 attacks you get a free health state, but the counter for the killer is to hook you.
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It needs a full rework to a version of it that's actually good and isn't as game breaking as ignoring a hit. It's just too hard to balance in it's current version imo.
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That's a really good idea! It rewards being able to win a chase, and with the new perk "fixated" i hope this is gonna be a more explored strategy.
Anyways, the "counters" i am referring to are the following
1- you see him, so you get a lot if information out of that. You know if is worth going to defend a generator or tochase someone, you can know if they are coming for the unhook and you can make generally better decision.
2 you can get a first hit and then leave the chase. The biggest problem of old Mettle was that it activate during a chase and a survivor was able to control it by healing to 99%
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Just remove the aura downside and have it work when either healthy or injured. That seems like the best compromise. Even if they fix protection hits, to give 3 hits and not even get one shot protection, is the biggest thing that makes the perk garbage tier. It still wouldn’t be good, but it would be at least usable.
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Yes, we can agree that it's fine as it is now ;)
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Mmm.. i think that i can't. Useless perks are not healty for the game, unless you like to use and see always the same perks used over and over again ;)
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Getting hit three times to have this perk activate is just to easy of an requirement in my opinion. Being able to take one extra hit is so huge and wastes the killers time which he doesn't have against a good team.
Three safe unhooks would be a nice requirement, and when the perk is active, instead of going down you should just get inflicted with the Deep Wound status effect. So you can take an extra hit but if the killer decides to leave you you will be forced to spend some time mending.
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Yeah ok, punish other survivors for a perk ONE survivor runs, sure buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night
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Don't get your little girl panties all twisted up. I was just trying to think of a way to make the perk enjoyable for both sides.
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Yeah, I guess after ONE survivor gets moried and everyone else gets punished is a fun perk for BOTH sides.
The way to make MoM perfect is make it be Safe Unhooks and Protection hits give you stacks and that it can be used while both healthy and injured.
Perfect fix
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I think a more simpler thing they can do is to fix the protective hit effect, because currently you only get points for that if you, a healthy or injured survivor, get hit for a different injured survivor. And change it so that if you get hit rather than the other person (who would be healthy in this case), it would count as a stack for MoM. And also, change it so that instead of receiving 3 protective hits, make it to 2. Because even if they were to fix protective hits, 3 is quite a lot, making the perk still useless. And come to think of it, maybe remove the Obsession status effect you get when using the perk, because it also made it somewhat ineffective, because then the killer would never go after you.
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Your perfect fix screws the killer over. It would just cause the same amount of frustration, and anger as the original MOM did. Not fun for the killer at all. you can't have an extremely powerful perk like MOM without a con to go with the pro. comprises need to be made to balance MOM effectively.
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Ok then balance sheriff.
Evil has a way of finding you
After obtaining 3 tokens from Safe hook rescues and Protection hits the perk activates
The perk will ignore a hit that would put you from injured to dying state
Whilst healthy and the perk is activated, the killer can see your aura from 32 meters away (basically as soon as the MoM users enters your TR you are provided with their aura which will also be visible during a chase to help with mindgames)
After taking the endurance hit the perk deactivates
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I like the idea. OP mentioned the 32 meter detection also. Being visible while chasing sounds a little unfair to the survivor imo. I'd turn the aura off when a chase activates.
The real issue is if everyone is running MOM. Assuming you hit them all 4 times for the hook in a chase; that would be 16 hits instead of the usual 12 to get the first hook on all survivors. That's a crazy time waster which is why I thought of the mori, and exposed effect to make up for that lost time. Exposed to get people of the gen, and hiding.
My idea gives you two MOM charges. With a choice to take a risk or not on the second charge. Just don't activate the second charge if you don't want the penalty. It's a way to super buff the perk, without the killer being absolutely miserable.
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I think it would still not really worth. At the moment, protection hits that count toward mettle are hit taken
1- while the killer is carrying someone
2- just after an unhook
3- while near a downed player
4- while healing a player
All of these are pretty consinstent atm. The one you are reffering to is a different type of protection hits that provide only 100 bp instaed of 200 bp. I have no idea why both scoring events have the same name.
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It shouldn't have 2 different things counting for it.
Just safe unhooks would be best.
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The aura reading is only while healthy, so you can still see the survivors aura in a chase until you hit them into the injured state and they'll have MoM by then so..
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Ok. Then that's great.
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I would just rework the perk completely tbh.
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Just let the perks gain stacks with safe unhooks or let it be used regardless of health state; doesn’t need anything more imo.
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In my opinion Mettle of Man shouldn't have been added to the game. There is never going to be a healthy balance with a perk that punishes a role for trying to do their job. The devs are about to potentially do this again with Demogorgon and Mind Breaker. Back to the point though, MoM only working off protection hits isn't good because protection hit scoring event is very unreliable and there are a lot more situations that make it more advantageous to not body block another survivor. Yet, we obviously can not go back to just any hit working for as then you're punished super heavily for playing the game.
Honestly, any version of this perk shouldn't be a thing. We should not be putting in endurance perks or exhaustion inducing perks that happen as a result of people doing their key objectives.
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Okay, hear me out for a sec.
The biggest issue with Mettle was that it made killers with an insta-down stronger while making M1 killers weaker. What if we flipped that around?
Mettle of Man: Upon fulfilling X condition, the next time you go immediately from healthy into the dying state, you are instead put into the Deep Wound state. This effect only activates once per trial.
What that condition should be, though, I am not sure, as the protection hits mechanic sucks. Perhaps getting chased by the killer for 2-3 minutes?
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The problem with it would be that perk perks wouldn't help with no instadown killer (and right now we only have 4 of them) at all.
Yes, it would also counter instadown perks... but i am not sure how effective it would be. Still a good idea tho.
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Just make is require three safe unhooks to use it, then the survivors would earn it and not rely on buggy protection hits.
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After fulfilling the condition it could also protect once against certain perks; i.e. NOED, DHope, Haunted Ground, MYC, Iron Maiden, and Rancor, in addition to Killers' innate insta-downs
Edit: Whoops, didn't process the whole comment I was responding to.
Post edited by AGM on0 -
Today is an important day. I finally menaged to make "Mettle of MoM" work.
I took a protection hit each time the freddy picked up the poor jake (i was following him with bond to throw some pebbles at him)
Charged up MoM, my friend jake get hooked the second time. I run to him injured, take the hit and make the save with BT, the killer then chase him but he fails the DS. I escaped thrught the hatch.
I was really ecxited. I guess the killer was super mad when he figured out that i didnt go down during the unhook. Anyways... it wasn't worth it. All this time could have been better spent on generators instaed of doing this and i could have got the save by just healing with my medkit.
Is was very funny still.
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