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Devs are not sided to any role!
Each get different type of balancing, with this being an asymmetrical game it is gonna be a pain to balance out the game
If I remember correctly the devs play both killer and survivor and try to balance out the game to the best of there ability
I am only saying this in an attempt to end this little thing about devs being "Survivor sided" or "Killer sided", next time you say that think on how hard it takes for the devs to balance out killers/survivors properly, how to create an entirely new killer and perk and try to keep it balanced
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A pain to balance of course he will be hard if they don't listen their top players. Legion was the typical exemple in the 2.7.0 PTB.
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You're completely right. Balancing mistakes happen and things are over/undertuned, and they might not be adjusted quickly, but there's no intentional bias. And I am not saying the game is perfectly balanced (it CAN'T be, it's an assymetrical game. there will always be optimal picks in every category)
But a lot of people will just pretend they didn't read the title of your thread because it's more convenient to blame some percieved bias in design than actually reflect on their own gameplay.
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- Screw the top players. The top players are not representative of the entire player base. This is NOT an e-sport. It's not Overwatch with millions on the line between two equal teams. The entire player base matters, new and old.
- Legion was a broken, toxic, ######### killer when he was released, full of exploits and bs. He deserved the entire rework.
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Top players are the ones that have more knowledge about the systems of the game and because of that they can send reliable response in term of balance. All ranks are important, but I wouldn't ask someone who is in yellow rank to tell me what's wrong with the game.
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Lol low skill players find freddy and clown OP and the game shouldn't be based on top players. I wonder what the game is badly balanced and unfun these days.
Legion was broken but they simply destroyed him, high ranks told many feedback to make him great and not broken but here we are.
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Because people like to make statements that tangentially link what they are talking about to a point they feel they can make. Like you just did.
Thus perpetuating the snyde, sassy remarks on the forum instead of an intellectual discussion.
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And high rank players have also suggested making Ruin basekit which funnily enough hurts newer players more than it hurts experienced players anyway, so many everything high ranked players have to say isn't valid.
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People don't recognize the effort to make this asymmetrical game balanced. It's nearly impossible to make everyone happy, furthermore looking at FPS games like OW, these games including DBD keep adding on new content. Every time a game increases in character count especially when 9 perks are being added, it would be really hard to do so.
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Tell me the game is not balanced around low rank you know the answer already.
Many other high ranks disagreed me included. Ruin is a problem in high ranks because RR is doing gens though ruin and/or destroy in 5s but it's not the right thread to talk about it.
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Not the thread to talk about a specific example of why top rank input could screw over low levels?
Right.
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The game is balanced around getting a 2k average.
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weird, considering how rediculously survivor sided the game is.
SWF in of itself is something that should never exist in a game like this, particularly when the game has never been balanced for it
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they listened to the players.
thats what resulted in the legion changes.
please stop acting like old legion was fine and fun, we all know he wasnt - and those changes (that only got rid of all the annoying aspects btw) were needed for the health of the game.
however, i do not support them in their statement that they do not plan to look at legion in the near future, since the killer is in desperade need of a full on power rework imo.
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Survivors have received tons of nerfs though and are not comparable to how they were in 2016/2017. Knowing this and still saying that devs favour survivors is being dishonest.
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So was the nurse the most nerfed killer and she is still the strongest. Maps design is the problem mostly
I know bro 2k is not even doable with clown in red ranks.
Legion with frank mix tape while tunneling had no counter. On every thread since his nerfs i never said that old legion was fun or balanced, I was one of whinners the new legion have no power. Legion is worse than it was before...
His power can't kill , his frenzy is slower and loopable like never , he lose gauge when attacking , pallet vault is stupidly slow with that a 4s cooldown and 20s reload.
We don't want old legion we asked a great legion.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Pig wasn't given any chance to work in egg, nerfed instantly. Yet, MoM without thinking how broken could it be, despite the major disappointment it received after the "leak".
Survivors are their priority, that's a matter of fact, being the higher player base.
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Oh good grief
"Mummy and Daddy love you more"
"Nuh Uh Mummy and Daddy love YOU more"
It's honestly embarrassing to read these forums sometimes.
The simple fact is, that the devs could spend a whole year fixing all the perceived issues from both sides, exactly how killers and survivors want it, and a whole bunch of them will still scream for more and yell that the other side got more than they did.
You can all line up every buff and nerf as 'proof' that the devs are sided one way or another. The devs will NEVER be able to cater to both sides equally at all times because barely anybody wants to talk about balance with a balanced perspective. It's far easier to point the finger at the opposite side and wail that their plate is fuller than your own.
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Killers like to regurgitate this nonsense.
Look at where that's gotten the game. Devs are continuously nerfing survivors because the Top Ranks have it easy for SWF and killers suffer hard there.
Now we're stuck with 10 minute killer queues because there aren't enough survivors.
You do not balance an asymmetric casual game around the top elite players. You balance it around the majority of your playerbase, otherwise that majority stops playing.
Leave balancing at the highest levels to competitive eSports games which have fair and equal conditions for all players and teams. Asymmetric games are a totally different beast.
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Eh, top player make up like just 4% of the population, and are out of touch with how the majority of players play the game.
Let's look at the stupid suggestions top rank killers have suggested:
* Make Ruin baseline
* Make NoEd baseline
* Add secondary objectives
* Double generator repair time
All of these are stupid suggestions that would result in a massacre of blood at the lower ranks, and even in the green and maybe even the purple ranks. They are changes which would utterly decimate the survivor side for at least Ranks 10-20, which is a sizable portion of the playerbase.
The game would not survive if BHVR took the "expert opinion" of these "top players" seriously.
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Other than the secondary objective one (which isn't inherently problematic) I haven't seen any top level players suggest any of the things you just listed.
I've seen people suggest those things. But they were all random people I've never heard of rather than the 4% you're equating these suggestions with.
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People seem to forget solo play is very underpowered. But we just talk about how SWF is OP
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Asymmetry is not mutually exclusive with serious balance and competitive gameplay.
Overwatch is Asymmetrical and is highly competitive and is being balanced accordingly. Yes the Asymmetry is not to the same degree as DBD but in terms of balance the difference doesn't matter in the slightest. In fact it would make it even harder to balance, since it's the equivalent of having to balance Killer's around the idea that any of those Killers could instead be a Survivor doing the Survivor objective with the same mechanics as when they are a Killer.
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Then how come there are so many posts about giving more base kit ally tracking so solo's aren't as weak.
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So many posts? I don't see any. What I do see is plenty of posts about SWF being OP. Who knows could be because of different times me/you are on the forum but I barely see them.
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My your biased asf
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Here's one example:
There are others.
They aren't as common as it's inverse (complaining about SWF) but they are all out there.
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I'm biased because I said the top players aren't the only ones that mattered?
Or I'm biased for pointing out an accepted fact that Legion was broken since his release (double blade with infinite mending, moonwalking exploit) He was literally the ONLY killer who didn't have a counter. All he had to do was Frenzy, look at the ground and follow your scratch marks until you bled out or stopped to mend.
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By saying he deserved every change..anyone with eyes can see they went overboard with the "changes" as usual
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There two reasons why i don't agree.
- Red ranks suffer from bad balance with no way to counter it (haddonfield infinite , crotus prenn infinite) , All m1 killers being bullied because they are looped for ages (except hillbilly).
- balancing around potatoes will make them potatoes forever. I never played a game that reward potatoes play.
The 10 minute queues are because they are an increased amount of killers(as told by devs).
Like i said in another thread survivors (SwF or not) have fun bullying killers looping them all game. When nurse come into play everyone want her to be nerfed because survivor don't have fun and can't loop and bully her.
DbD have some aspect to be competitive ranks system and how the game is designed. Many see it as a competitive game because it's becoming one, If you remember the survey there was an option for tournament just saying. So your point is subjective i want DbD to be balanced in all ranks.
PS: remember that in the roadmap once chapter 13 launch devs will rework the rank system with rewards and Battle Pass(Rift) planned for mid chapter patch and rank rework with mid ch14 patch.
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This is not an Asymmetrical horror game, it is a bunch of rogue bullies picking on a single killer while he's just trying to defend his totems and not get blinded by 5000 candela flashlights.
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If a game is balanced for those who play occasionally and not for those who play it regularly, it doesn't encourage players to get better or climb the ranks.
When players don't want to climb ranks, it's a clear sign that something is fundamentally wrong with the balancing.
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I've grown to accept that this is true, the DBD community has updates centered around the majority, not the minority of "top players."
Like yeah, I play with the top (aka usually the most toxic and sweaty) but I don't expect them to center their updates around the sweatier side of their game. Like you said, this isn't an E-sports, its just a casual party game.
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Never heard that these players where top rank. Second objective wouldn't be a problem and even high rank killers will agree that pressing M1 for 80 sec isn't fun. When we talk about slowing the game down, we don't mean to make gen slower, but gen rush non existent.
Low ranks are slaughterhouse, it's in every game with asymmetric gameplay. The same was with Evolve/Evolve Stage 2. As a monster you were slaughtering lower rank hunters, but when you met players, and I don't even mean team like SwF, that knew what they are doing, your chances of even evolving to stage 2 sometimes were near 0%. That shows how powerful team can be when they know what they are doing and have advantage in numbers.
Asymmetric gameplay existed way before DbD. First game I remember having it was AVP from 2010 where one of the game modes was marines vs Predator (where marines could overpower Predator, suprise suprise!). And people still don't understand that team with bigger numbers will always dominate the side with smaller numbers despite skill level on the same level.
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Im afraid that this is not true. You dont need to be the 0.001% to know that half of the killer rooster is useless.
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I think they are trying to make everyone happy which they never will cause that's impossible. The map reworks is a good step in the right direction though imo.
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Yes the rework is indeed a great step everyone agree on that. They have to do the same to others maps. Same goes for perks and killers then we all are happy.
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We actually need a second objective, it's not just a top player suggestion either because both the community and the developers thought about a second objective.
Quote from @Peanits:
It's definitely something that's being considered, but there are no solid plans I can share.
Quote from @Peanits:
We are trying to see what we can do though, but it's definitely a lot more complicated than adding a new objective and calling it a day.
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Believe it or not some people think the broken loops on some maps like the building loop at iron works shouldn't be touched lmao
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Will I wouldn't go as far as to say that the dev are biased it is a fact that problem/bug that affect killer used to take them way more time to address
A good example would be the patch 1.4 who was pushed two year ago without having fixed the sound glitch that masively disaventaged killer despite it having been spotted during the ptb and it
Killer add to wait until patch patch 1.4.1a (3 patch later) for it to be fixed
Or when true infinite where a thing and it took them almost half a year to deal with them.
Or the Ironwork exploited to get killer that wheren't nurse stuck in a corner of the map wich took them one month and an half to fix
But they definitly impoved on that front since them and listen more to ptb feedback
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Typical, they should play killer a bit against great loopers i can assure you they will change their mind.
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More or less it goes like this :
Elite Survivors -> Elite Killers -> Casual Survivors -> Casual Killers
Bad Killers -> Bad Survivors -> Newbie Killers -> Newbie Survivors.
Rank 20 - Rank 10 Killers are more dominant, once you hit Rank 10, the tables flip and Survivors dominate that bracket of Ranks 10 to Rank 1.
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Depends, they only dominate when they're in a SWFs at Rank 10 - 1 or if the Solo Survivor team actual does well.
Otherwise its usually the opposite of that when it comes to Rank 10 - 1.
Anything below those ranks are just noobs, and saying Rank 10 is somewhat of a challenge is a big stretch, just because of the fact that most Killers rely on NOED at that rank... Or just because they're not... "adjusted" enough to the meta I suppose?
It all comes down to person preference, but that's the way I look at it with my 1100 hours into this game.
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