reasons to remove survive with friends groups of three or more from the competitive pool
I'm genuinely sick of these people In my ranked games. all of these are from my experience as a killer main in the past 3 days.
Too many people in survive with friends groups are overly toxic. 7 out of the 8 groups of 4 survive with friends groups constantly harass people in post game for either hooking them or let alone killing them.
groups of three damn near leave the fourth person who's just trying to play solo to die when they get hooked once. this has happened three times in three days. 2 times did I stalk the person on the hook half way through to find 2 of the survivors camping at their feet T bagging repeatedly. in another game I had 3 of the survivors telling me where the other one was. I ended up killing 2 of them. well, downing them before they disconnected to save their precious uncommon flashlight and med kit.
I got 2 groups of 4 people with 4 flashlights. the first group I downed 3 of them. they all left at the last second to save their flashlight. I proceed to get called awful and garbage for getting three disconnects. both groups did nothing but group up and try to use flashlight on me the moment I did any action. on both I still somehow managed to get a 3k. again got called trash
most of them are boosted apes. who abuse gen rushes when they aren't good at escaping or anything other than getting gens. most of them still fail almost every loop they try and are oblivious most of the time.
they dc way too quickly. while playing ghost face yesterday against a swf group. three of them dc'd because one of them didn't see me charging my stalk while 2 feet away from them before I downed them. I ended up letting the last guy escape with the hatch out of pity for having to deal with cretins like them. but still. they always dc the moment anything goes wrong for them.
feel free to skip this but here's a specific example from a game I played yesterday. I'm nurse. the survivors have 2 Claudettes, an Ash and a Nea. their perks (from what I remember) were 1 object of obsession, 3 dead hard, 2 decisive strikes. 3 balanced landings, one adrenaline, one self heal, one mettle of man and one borrowed time. with 3 tool kits. aka everything annoying. I rush the basement because one of them used a bonus chest token and I tend to like rushing places where the basement would be. I find the Nea doing a nearby gen and down her, hook her and see that 2 gens are taken within a minute. OH BOY. so I start stalking around the Nea, going around the area trying to get a basement party. I find a Claudette, I smack her till she's down, pick her up and bring her to the basement. with the other three now following me. at some point they got Nea. I wasn't paying attention during the Claud chase. every time I get to a hook they all start standing in front of it. they're now all injured. I down another. hook him, they run away, heal and come back trying to take them off the hook, they get them both but now I've downed one of them. I decide it's pointless to leave because they're obviously going to come back which they did 2 more times. continuing a cycle of grab one for one. giving me more hooks. I guess they eventually gave up, and mentally so did I. they didn't come back. then the last 3 gens were just finished as I find the ash trying to open the gates. I take him to a hook and once again three people are jacking each other off under the hook. even though they had tool boxes they didn't sabotage hooks. they weren't playing well, they were just giving me depression. not in a they won way but more of a how come I get paired against people this lame. they all escape, all of them were hooked twice and they proceed to think very highly of themselves just cuz I didn't bother to bring a mori. but now that I think about it the moment they'd see me try to mori they'd instantly dc. as they all do.
in short, they're all boosted. toxic. overestimate their skill. constantly dc. throw games. and are a general issue for competitive play in my opinion. PLEASE ADD A QUICKPLAY OPTION.
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Asymmetrical game, competitive game. Choose one.
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I know they are annoying but there is no way in hell this is ever going to happen. If you get a toxic team just faceamp, it makes me feel better, and as a bonus you depip, do it enough times and you'll get survivors that are more fun to play against.
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Counter strike?
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The objectives are basically the same, plus for an fps is easier to be considered competitive.
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SWF will never be balanced, and so will this game, i just learned to deal with it since most swf rounds i go against are really intense and fun, and it's just wrong to punish people for playing together
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To translate. "I don't like challenges, I rather take a game where survivors crouch all game and farm off other survivors."
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i haven't played since the last season reset, this is from rank 20 to 12
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SWF is a problem the developers seriously don't have a solution to. It's a gaping hole in their balance design because they have made this game to be approached by four solo survivors.
Many perks are made obsolete simply by survivors being coordinated, - even many killer powers are worthless against SWF - but here's the issue : not all SWFs are coordinated. This is where your problem lies. The Developers of this game will not balance around the highest levels of play, because they believe that since "not every time, will you face an optimal team", justifies you being destroyed by an optimal team every time they act optimally.
There is no way to balance around SWF without universally buffing survivors with omnipresent information so solos can act with equal efficiency to SWFs, or by disabling SWFs completely. Nothing will stop people from playing with their friends, and it'd be stupid to do so, business wise.
So we're at an impasse. SWF is crazy OP when done right, but equalizing the field would ruin Killer gameplay. Buffing killers would make non-SWF play much harder. What to do?
Let's forget about it - hey, look, we released a new stranger things chapter! you all love pop culture! Eat the corporate slop, you drones! Stop asking us to balance the core problems of our game! Look, it's stranger things, shut up already!
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the idea was not to punish swf, it was more to turn it into a more casual fun thing like kyf. like you could have swf be turned into the casual mode where there is no rank and you have killers messing around, and turn kyf into customs. so that killers actually trying to enjoy a normal "competitive" game don't have to deal with 4 brainlets who rush you down with flashlights just to still get mind gamed by the killer into oblivion. so there will be an actual place for that sort of play. then turn normal play as survivor into a solo or duo mode.
side note. all my swf rounds are depressing. it's just morons who think they're good cuz they can beat a killer after getting downed and hooked twice because they all grouped up around the killer just to save their one buddy with a very rare flashlight who's going to "carry them to rank 1"
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I understand the concerns around balance, and that's a whole other discussion. Regarding the original post, all I can say is that toxicity is not a reason to to limit or remove SWF. Toxic people are toxic no matter what game mode they're playing. Removing SWF is not going to solve that problem.
One could argue that people are less toxic when they're playing solo because of herd mentality, but if they're that determined to be toxic with their friends they'll just circumvent the issue by joining and quitting lobbies until they get in the same one. Which not only brings up a new problem of queue times and lobby dodging, but also means that survivors may then be in a worse mood going into the game because of the inconvenience and therefore more likely to behave badly. So instead of solving the issue, it could potentially just be made worse.
Regarding casual play, I had a similar discussion here where it was debated at length and concluded that it might not be as viable an option as it appears. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/26345/casual-gameplay-please-an-update-on-my-deranking-friend#latest
The other problem is that there are people who aren't toxic and who just want to play competitively with several of their friends because playing with friends is more fun than solo. As several people mentioned above, it doesn't seem right to take that option away from them.
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You are completely right but there's no good solution.
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swf does, indeed need removed from ranked (ranked = competitive for those failing to understand basic logic). SWF is way too strong a mechanic to have in a competitive environment.
They won't do it though, the devs are terrified of survivor mains, which is why they control the balance of the game
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It's not happening. Anything that punishes people for playing with their friends or applies limitations like that simply won't happen.
Only things that are remotely realistic are the good old buff solos -> buff killers that need it approach or incentives for killers that don't impact gameplay like BP modifiers.
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Dead by Daylight is a party game.
People want to play with their friends, it’s never going to happen.
Plus I will say after returning, it feels so unrewarding playing solo. Even at R1 Survivor, most of the time the teams I am on are destroyed. Solo play not only feels extremely unrewarding, but at times a chore.
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Then maybe they should make non competitive mode and all would be happy if this game have only competitive mode and they would not allow u to play with friends where a lot of people buy this game because they want to play together it would be BS like hell so it's common sense instead of being " terrified " of sruv mains like where the hell did u get that from ?
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Sure buddy survivors are in control of the game, is that why MoM, loops, vaults and several perks have been nerfed to oblivion?
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I wouldn't agree that there is no solution to the problem. Since SWF gain omnipotent information, this omnipotent information translates into better in-game decision making which results in more efficient team. A more efficient team is faster at completing objectives so they are better at healing, better at saving people off hooks and significantly faster at doing generators and they often use perks that strategically synergy.
1) one solution could be to give SWF action speed debuffs members which counter-balance their omnipresent information that results in efficient team. The problem with this solution is that it "creates" a new set of rules for the game. In most video games, creating double standard sets of rules isn't a good idea because it distorts the game for the players. It's like having two sets of "balance" for the game that is artificial and I find that somewhat strange but in some sense necessary
2) Second possible solution is making killers a stronger power role. The problem with this is that it affects solo survivor experience because you will inevitably make killers have an unfair mechanic that has minimal level of counter-play(like blinking Nurse) just so you can counter-balance the SWF powercreep for the survivor. It isn't as bad because it justifies killers being a power-role and it makes the game more challenging for solo survivor but the question becomes whether the game being harder for survivor is a bad thing.
3) The third possible way is to either weaken survivor universally or make solo-survivor stronger such that it has same tools as SWF. They have thought of the idea of giving Kindred in base-kit of survivors and I'd say Bond would be another logical perk to give if you wanted to make solo as strong as SWF but lately they've back off that idea. They have tried weakened survivors over time like introducing slow/medium vault speed, entity blockers, put more unsafe/useless pallets, slower healing speed in efforts to give killers a greater chance but I would say that they haven't really moved needle other than making solo-survivor more difficult to play and keeping SWF just about the same.
Their efforts to use #2 and #3 have had some mild success, but I feel like it has some negative effects, for example, I think it's harder for new players to get into the game if the game is very punishing and in general, it feels like it never really attacks the problem directly enough. It's just feel really difficult to find blacket solution that everyone can agree upon I suppose.
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>use the endless OP add ons that killer’s have.
Love that part. Also don't forget to "use your best killer". And now that's basically red ranks. And just in case if this is not solos, because devs don't want you to know if they're a group of friends or not. Always go for maximum pressure and destroy whoever doesn't play in group, in case they are.
From your point of view, It seems that only survs are allowed to "just have fun with their friends" and get easy wins, when killer supposed to "earn it", but mostly to entertain.
Existance of SWF in current state is unfun for all other solo players, killers and survivors.
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you do know in competitive games, they are a group of people communicating together!
what kind of logic is this? No MOBA, no FPS has a professional team of people that dont know each other and dont talk with each other?
So stop saying SWF needs to be removed the the "competitive" pool, because that's literally the opposite of what competitive is. Stop taking the compete out of competitive. All you want is to remove the challenge in the game so you can have your 4k every game dream.
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My main problem with SWF threads is how do they know how many times they actually went against a SWF? Sometimes survivors like to meme maybe they used the pre-game chat to coordinate? Even if all join at the same time there is no actual way to know if your facing a SWF unless you ask them.
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Well there is one, but they'd never do it. Rebalance the entire game around Voice Chat(hell, even just text chat) and include it.
It'd take time but it'd make a much healthier game. Sadly though they keep arguing that that would ruin the atmosphere of playing solo despite the fact that almost every other multiplayer game in existence has a way to mute your chat rendering that point completely moot.
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then dont let people play killer cause theyre all boosted. Same logic.
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Right, that's why killers don't dodge lobbies. Wait, no, they do dodge. But they also dodge random teams because they THINK that's swf. Not dodging killers keep using sweaty builds because they think that they're going against swfs. Bad point.
And here we go again. Not only killers have a problem with SWF. SWFs have fun with friends and agitate killers, solos suffer from agitated killers and things that swfs call "fun" when you're not their friend.
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So is it they just get toxic in the end game chat?
Cause you rant about how easy SWF are to kill in your matches...
So the only issue is that they get toxic in the end game chat.
Just turn off the end game chat... You see those double arrows pointing to the right at the bottom of the chat box. Click it to hide and unhide it.
You're Welcome.
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"Competetive pools"
"Ranked games"
Neither of those even exist. It's all just a casual game. Your "rank" is a matchmaking tool.
Period.
How does NOBODY understand this still?
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You're complaining about swf in THOSE ranks being too good?
Hon....I dont know how to tell you this...it's s not swf that making your games hard....
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When will people learn that SWF isn’t going anywhere?
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While true in most games ranked in this game is really just a form of progression and a way to try and match people with those of equal skill. It is the only mode so to say it is competative is not actually true as it's subjective to what each player thinks it is.
Some play competatively and some play casually and just want to have fun and grind characters. You get what you want out of it.
In theory If SWF was truly a major issue and ultimately OP then no killers should ever be able to make it to rank 1 let alone stay there. What this says is the killers who can do well reach a state of play others wish to be at but aren't able to.
Skill and knowledge has a huge factor in this game but unlike other games people seem to think they should be able to compete with all players regardless of how good they are. This is why you will see those end game chats calling them out for being SWF even if its a team of solo as they just don't want to admit to themselves that they got bested by better players.
Most people who are say in silver league really won't be able to compete with those in diamond in some other games so why is that same logic not applied in this game?
This all points to the matchmaking being the issue not how people play. The fact you are matched with players much better than your play level is what makes people frustrated.
Separating the playerbase over 2 modes won't help with the frustration some feel as the problem is allowing a 50h player to verse a group of 4 with 3k hours which will still happen regardless of a click "X" mode.
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>In theory If SWF was truly a major issue and ultimately OP then no killers should ever be able to make it to rank 1 let alone stay there. What this says is the killers who can do well reach a state of play others wish to be at but aren't able to.
You people keep forgetting to mention, which killers are that.
There's a hard skill cap on killers. Different killers have a different one.
Also another reason, why losing killers call winning survivors a SWF is because they can't tell if they're not.
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No one fails to mention that, many do it just doesn't need touched upon on every single comment.
There are killers which are extremely good at red ranks and when it comes to which ones they are all free or earnable with shards.
This seems like it is by design as pay only licensed characters being overly strong will fuel the ones who scream P2W over every little aspect if they lose.
All killers can be viable in the right hands though as they learnt how to utilise them. They are just not as strong an option as others for the majority.
As for SWF not being shown that simply proves my point. When some lose they automatically think it's due to them being SWF and not because they simply lost against better players and showing them won't change the fact they feel they should be better at the game.
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