Neither side is “easy mode” and the devs don’t cater to one side.
I can’t believe this actually needs to be said but this game is actually balanced, it isn’t hard to get a 2K as killer which is a balanced match imo and the devs nerf things and buff things from both sides so they are in no way catering to either side.
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The nerfed survivors a lot and buffed killers a lot. Killers are still whining and want more nerfs. Case in point this forums.
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It quite honestly goes both ways though, people from both sides ask for unnecessary nerfs/buffs.
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Have you considered that those nerfs were warranted? And how have they buffed killers? Besides the Freddy rework killers are pretty much the same.
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In general i agree with you.
I believe there are some killers that are too weak (Trapper/Legion). It is pretty hard to do well with those two against good teams.
Some windows aren't balanced as well.
I can't say the game is unbalanced on every map with most killers though just issues here and there.
Even with bad killers you can bring a mori and have a fair chance.
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I never said certain nerfs weren’t needed, I’m saying if the devs truly catered to one side then that side wouldn’t have received these heavy nerfs.
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Certain maps could use some tweaks/the Freddy map treatment and I agree about legion not doing so good in their current state, overnerfed.
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It's tough to call, because it changes based on ranks. Killer at Red rank is greatly disadvantaged unless you're playing meta. Spirit, Nurse, or Billy. Try GF or Trapper at Rank 1 and you'll most likely have a tough time unless you've got thousands of hours poured into those killers.
But at mid to low ranks, killer stomps faces in. I pretty much always get a 4K at lower ranks and it feels effortless.
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I’ve learned that you can do decent or even well with most killers if you know when to slug, I actually main bubba but haven’t played killer as much since reset but I was sitting at red ranks enjoying myself.
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Wow i wish i could tell survivors to only do ~1 gen each and then stand still because thats balanced with such confidence.
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The game is balanced if you know what you’re doing.
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Might be true but telling a killer that everything above a 2/4 ratio is sweaty tryharding, or doing 50% of your objective is your actual "balanced" goal is kinda cringy.
Meanwhile survivors escape with doing 1/6 of their objectives. (Im kinda nice enough to equal the hatch with a gate instead of crossing the exit line, that comparison would be 1/7 objectives needed)
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I never called anyone sweaty, 2k is the balance goal.
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Never said YOU did...
"But nows your chance to win an upvote:"
"We asked 100 survivors in the forum what they consider a killer going for 4 kills? Here are the top five answers:"
- Sweaty Tryhard
- Tryhard
- Sweaty
- Noob
- Cheater
(Yeah it's a rather obscure reference but the truth)
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You're right, of course, but many people don't want to admit it. Even at red ranks as the 'worst' killer, whoever that may be, a 2k at minimum is always possible, even against good survivors.
I get more frustrated when playing survivor, actually, because one bad teammate can lose your team the game really quickly, but as killer it is all on you, whether or not you perform well or not.
A lot of killers have the mentality that "I played well, I should get a 4k," which is...troubling, because what does that mean for the survivors who also played well in that game?
2k should be the balance target in this game, and in an average game it is pretty close to that. Of course there are some blatantly broken things (instas, moris, nurse) that need to be fixed, but that's an already tired topic.
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On the "easy mode" thing, it's just a common thing in competitive games to value mechanical skill over all other forms of skill. Look at games where people that play support/healer characters get #########, even though they have an entire world of on-the-fly prioritization/"triage", game sense, positioning and more to deal with. But none of that matters, the skill of the person that's good at moving their crosshair onto the head of the enemy players or whatever is viewed as worth more.
Same in DBD. There's no denying that killers like Nurse and Huntress can be pretty intensive when it comes to mechanical skill, while more "subtle" skills relevant to both sides like mindgames, map knowledge, prioritization and others (more "mental skills") are valued less. It's an unfair generalization at best and straight up elitism at worst, but it's an old phenomenon.
People do indeed also have personal victory conditions that don't really match with what the devs seem to intend. Killers that want a 4k or survivors that rush gens to escape aren't "sweaty tryhards", but if they get annoyed when they DON'T achieve their personal goals it can be a mindset that makes them frustrated when they don't have to be. It's a game where sometimes you just get screwed. Maybe you get Haddonfield as a killer vs a team of balanced landing and instaheals or you get found, chased and hooked first by a killer that patrols and tunnels you to death with a mori. It just happens.
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People just like to complain instead of looking at the bigger picture. It's human nature. They like to blame the other side or blame BHVR for everything. BHVR is just fixing thing one side at a time. They aren't nerfing survivors and leaving them in a helpless state they're just changing killers first then they'll work on survivors at least that's how I view it.
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This game would be balanced if a killer could always win if he is more skilled than the survivors. But that isn't the case currently. If the survivors play at a certain skill level, the killer can't win, no matter how much higher his skill level is.
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It's not perfect, of course, but the thing a lot of people don't seem to take into account is that it's about as balanced as an asymmetrical game can be.
I often see people, when asking for buffs/nerfs, making arguments along the lines of "This survivor/killer mechanic is OP because there's no killer/survivor equivalent."
Well, no. That's because... wait for it... killers and survivors are not the same. And that's the whole point.
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@Fibijean Of course an asymmetrical game could be balanced. That killers and survivors have different mechanics doesn't mean that the game can't be balanced.
Years and months ago, DbD used to be more unbalanced than it currently is. The devs worked on balance and improved the situation, but the game is still unbalanced and needs being worked on.
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That's why I prefaced by comment by saying that I don't believe the game is perfect and there's definitely room for improvement. I wasn't arguing that efforts shouldn't be made to balance the game, but that balance arguments made on the basis of wanting every survivor mechanic to have a direct killer equivalent and vice versa are invalid by the very definition of asymmetry.
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@Fibijean You wrote "the thing a lot of people don't seem to take into account is that it's about as balanced as an asymmetrical game can be". If you now say there is room for improvement, then I agree.
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If the Killer is at a certain Skill Level, the Survivors cant win, no matter how much higher their Skill Level is (cough Nurse cough ). Not saying that Nurse does not need Skill, but if someone is good with Nurse, he basically cannot lose, especially when using Add-Ons.
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No, it doesn't work both ways. Nurse is not almighty. Play stealthy, rush gens, bring the infamous 2nd-chance-perks and insta-heals, don't make bad tactical decisions, then even a Nurse won't get 3 kills, no matter what she does.
Nurse is a whole other world than all the other killers, no question, but survivors are still the stronger role.
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@DudeDelicious Matches with good killers vs. good survivors aren't balanced. (I hesitate to say "matches in high rank" because high rank doesn't necessarily mean that the players are good.)
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If the nurse doesn't get 4 kills, it is not due to the survivors playing well, it is due to the nurse not playing well enough. A nurse past a certain skill point doesn't get beaten if they play well. Period.
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Incorrect.
If the Nurse is good, there is nothing the Survivors can do. I feel that some of the good Nurses just play nicely, because once the Nurse starts slugging, its gg. Nurse removes the Defenses a Survivor has (Windows and Pallets). Breaking LoS is of course also a Defense, but a good Nurse will not just blink randomly, but will start blinking once she has LoS on the Survivor again.
The only Killer which removed Survivor Defenses was old Legion, but he did not have Map Pressure at all, making him a Killer who can down a Survivor 99%, while losing the game because he cannot pressure the Gens. But a Nurse can do that without any big problems.
So yeah, you cannot win vs a good Nurse. Maybe a highly coordinated SWF Team can win, but this should not be the standard at which Killers are measured, because highly coordinated 4 man SWFs are not the majority.
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@Aven_Fallen "Highly coordinated 4 man SWFs are not the majority" - what is the majority has nothing to do with balance.
Take a well-coordinated 4 man SWF equipped with several DS, BT, DH, Adre, Unbreakable, insta-heals. Nurse won't win, no matter how skilled the Nurse player is.
Of course, these kind of SWF are definitely not the majority, but this is not relevant for the question whether a match is balanced. Perks & items are only supposed to increase the chances of winning for the player using them, not make it impossible for the other side to win.
And we are talking here about Nurse, who is soo much more powerful than all the other killers. This illustrates at what a big disadvantage the other killers are finding themselves.
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A nurse playing at her full potential wins against an SWF playing at their full potential. You are really overestimating how strong an SWF is and underestimating how much power a good nurse has. The SWF group might win some matches, based on the map and how quick the first person gets found/downed, but a nurse try-harding beats SWF try-harding the majority of the time. Sorry to say, but if you think differently, you haven't played as/against a good enough nurse.
Post edited by Omans on0 -
The only things in this game that I consider to be survivor catering are keys, instaheals and ds. Keys because, no matter the skill, it's an easy escape, instaheals because they removed everything else that was instant about survivors, this should be too, ds because you can still get hit by it despite chasing, downing and hooking a totally different person.
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Survivor is easymode because the devs cater to survivors. :)
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What a well justified and valuable opinion.
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You control whether a survivor uses DS or not, I still don't understand how so many players can complain about a perk that is only useful if the killer allows it to be used.
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