SWF is not OP. Good survivors ARE
Ok, before I get insulted for being bad at the game or just simply told I'm wrong, let me say something from my own experience.
So 1. voice comms don't do much. Rly. Most of the times I play with my friends we don't lose often, that's because we are 4 man swf and all of us are pretty good at survivor. That's bad for the game health because we force people to play S-tier killers with ultra-rare addons, I agree that killers with best setup have almost equal chances to kill 2 of my SWF party. BUT. Let me say that most of the time I play with friends they don't say something useful. The only useful information I can hear in discord is that someone is being chased while I'm being in TR, that's it and also when someone being facecamped and I don't waste my time saving him.
I'm playing a lot of killer myself too, I don't dodge swf, I don't complain about them winning me, even if they are toxic or not I just don't care. I play for results. What I'm trying to say that I misrecognized some survivors as SWF, yes they were so good at the game that it made me feel they all are 4 man swf, but they weren't, every single one of them was solo and they all did very well and 3 people escaped. Get it?
I'm trying to say that the only way to balance survivors in this game is either ban every experienced surv player or either make survivors literally unplayable for everyone. So pick your side, you are going to complain about good survivor players or you still gonna blame SWF (which doesn't do much but removes bad randoms at least in my matches). I also believe that most survivors play SWF because random survivors are literally doing nothing entire match, the more I play solo, the more I don't want to play it anymore because only 1 match of 9 I have at least one decent random survivors, the others are just doing LITERALLY NOTHING. You can also watch NOOB3 video "Doing gens, you?" to see what I'm talking about, this is not the one case, it happens every solo match. My opinion is that everyone who blames SWF for their lose just shouldn't care about losing or should care about getting better and learning, SWF are predictable, most of the time so altruistic you can just stand at the hook and still end up with 4K.
Honestly it feels unfair to lose to some bad killer player because of randoms and this guy thinks he is perfect and the game is poorly balanced. Nobody is perfect, but most very good killer mains doing pretty well even against 4man swf's.
Also inb4 I'm downvoted by killer mains, I main Huntress and Ghostface, I don't enjoy playing Nurse, rarely I play Spirit, so don't think I don't understand how you feel about good survivors.
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SWF is seriously not a problem.
Killers just like to blame it as the boogeyman but teh truth is they just got outplayed.
A 4-man SWF of bad survivors will lose to a mediocre killer just as easily as a team of randos.
4 Solo survivors who know what they're doing will beat even good killers playing Nurse or Spirit.
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I'm going to tell you right now I don't believe 'every single one of them were solo' not for a second. The odds of that are so very slim.
That being said I don't disagree that a good survivor is probably gonna be a pain solo or not. I do think you're massively understating the value of comms. Knowing somebody is in a chase is helpful, knowing not to go to hook too and you cannot convince me you don't tell each other if you see the totem, if God pallet is gone, where you're leading him, which gens are almost done, what tools you have left such as decisive or deliverance.
If by some miracle you aren't communicating that then you're just using comms wrong and a group that's good and doesn't is an absolute nightmare.
Swf can be overated, not all are great but some really are. It's a mixed bag.
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So I'm just going to assume your idea of banning experienced players is a joke.
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Well you are right about totem spawns, totally forgot that because I always cleanse all 5 totems in every match and don't pay much attention to that type of callouts.
Yes, don't take it too seriously, I don't want someone to be banned for being good at the game)
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The thing is, you can't balance a game around survivors hiding in a corner instead of doing gens or survivors making severe mistakes. If you want to balance a game, you must assume that the players are very good.
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SWF needs removed from the game.
At a bare minimum it should be removed from ranked.
This is an unfair, imbalanced mechanic that should not exist in a ranked mode of a game like this.
Just because you want to run around bullying killers in your SWF group dosn't mean it's not OP
There's also the basic fact that this is a horror game where you are not suppossed to know whether your teammates will help you or leave you to die, SWF flies in the face of the entire concept of this game.
I, personally would be extremelly interested to see the survival stats on SWF groups, I can ptretty much guarantee that in at least 90% of their games all 4 survivors escape
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The problem is that many people don't want to play with bad randoms including me, if you can replace every single one of my randoms with someone being as good as my friends I can easily forget about voice comms, but this is not happening and also this will skyrocket the wait time in lobbies because many friend will just hop in lobbies until they meet each other. People who played dbd in June 2016 know what I'm talking about.
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You can guarantee that huh? I have a feeling you'd be very, very surprised by the actual stats. Swf is super powerful and I would love a mode without it and a mode with it, with benefits to going against them but let's not get crazy here. Op is understating their power, you're overstating it.
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It has been my opinion for awhile that the issue with SWF is not so much voice comms (yeah it does give some advantage, won’t deny) but the real SWF power is that they can straight up ignore the game‘s ranking and matchmaking systems that don’t work all too well and build a team of four equally strong players.
So whenever someone is asking me what the best buff for solo players would be, I usually say that a meaningful ranking and matchmaking system is all I would want. Of course it’s not going to happen if the devs consider a built-in Kindred „too strong“ because matching up a team of the same skill level is imho potentially even stronger.
The most fun and most memorable moments in this game I had in solo queue with solo teammates that were about my level where people almost reach each others thoughts and coordinate amazingly well without comms. This happened way too rarely though so I prefer playing killer now. It’s never as rewarding (except maybe some Huntress snipes) but also never as frustrating as the vast majority of solo matches.
I see it often when watching streamers play solo queue and they have nothing but terrible games that are painful to watch. Then they play SWF with their viewers, no voice comms, no coordination, but just selected experienced players who are good at observing what is going on and making decisions, and it’s like they’re suddenly playing a completely different game.
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Mhm..
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I'm sorry but I can only agree to half of this...
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The problem is that a 4 man swf can have one of them rank 20, while the others are rank 3 or 2 and they'll get in a lobby with a rank 10 killer and THAT is unfair.
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Can't disagree with you there, bully squads exist and only BHVR can do something about it.
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Happened to me today :D
Real fun game. Got 1 kill face camping coz the gens were done in 3 minutes. Definitely worth that 30 minute que 4 a 3 minute game
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You're right, SWF is too toxic
I play with Freddy at rank 13-14, and in every single match somebody has a group of min. 2 friends, and when on scoreboard, I can enjoy seeing good ranks (even 2, believe me, and it's too hard for my capabilities).
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What makes SWF so strong is that they’re usually well organized. Sure skills play a role too, but SWF’s could work their way around that. If one of the party members isn’t that skilled you could just run OoO and the problem is solved. The whole team knows where the killer is at all times and you could distract him assuming you’re a good looper.
In a game like this where saving time is really important, a well organized SWF could be really powerful.
I don’t think they should remove it though because being able to play with your friends makes the game more fun. Besides, it’s a multiplayer game... Not being able to play with your friends is just silly. It wouldn’t really resolve the issue either because as mentioned above, 4 skilled random players could be well organized too and trying to be organized really is a big thing in this game. Just look at survivor perks: Kindred, bond, empathy and this new Nancy perk all promote it.
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SWF is an issue. Totem Spots are automatically revealed for all survivors if one spots it. Generator work times can be optimized. Saves can be optimized. Looping can be optimized. I usually get a 4 man escape when i play with my friends in a three man swf.
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"voice coms don't do much"
1) "everybody rush gens the killer is insidious camping!"
2) "everybody stay at your generator I found ruin!"
3) "everybody stay at your generator I'm going for the unhook"
4) "I'm being chased. Can someone finish my 90% gen at the killer shack before the killer hooks me and kicks the gen with Pop Goes The Weasel?"
5) "killer is slugging with third seal! I got slugged next to the totem which is next to the fire barrel in the cow loop!"
6) "the killer has Spirit Fury! Drop the pallet earlier so the killer doesn't get stunned!"
7) "I cleansed all 5 totems to get noed out of the way so don't waste time looking for totems!"
8) "I'm at the generator next to the gate near the jungle gym if someone wants to help me pump out this generator while (insert name of SWF mate here) is getting chased!"
9) "I found ruin but the killer is chasing me! It's next to the exit gate behind the crates!"
10) "I just dropped the killer shack pallet"
11) "let me open the gate I'm running wake up. You got Leader so stand behind me!" (not that these perks actually got used by a SWF team but you know what I mean)
I could continue all day but you get the point.
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You are not wrong. But there is one extreme u missed: 4 really good and experienced survivors using voice coms for callouts and not just casually chatting. I see that on streams and I did it myself. Unless it's prayer beads spirit or omegablink Nurse with mori, the outcome was pretty much always 3+ escapes.
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You know whats better than 4 good survivors? 4 good survivors that know each other survivor is good (swf)
4 good survivors who can coordinate their work are even stronger (cwf)
Of course there are good players that dont need swf or to be a menace, you're right on that point.
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btw i love how you tell "booli squad exist" (with swf R20 and R1 in mind) when because of matchmaker time, rank almost doesnt matter xd R10 surv can get in game with R16 survs and killer, or red rank surv can get matched with green ranks, or red rank killer can get green rank survs xd i can give you plenty of screen shots me soloQuing and getting ranks that are way different from mine
+ not every surv that is doing swf with low ranks is doing that to booli, some just HAS FRIEND that has R20 well you wont tell he deranked on purpose to R20, or you want to blame him for wanting to play PARTY game with friend? or you want to blame his friend for not playing 40h per month? rank system needs change xd
and btw for someone who told get swf out of ranked, well devs many times told we dont have player base for 2nd Que, and i bet you if there would exist "normal gamemode" with blocked red/purple stuff, your belowed ranked killer que would take (on red ranks) literally 30min, because most survs on purple/red rank are tired of seeing broken AF add ons or nurse/spirit (because when you are in red ranks you forget we have 1X killers, because you only see 3, and no its not because only 3 are viable, its because community believes they need to play those 3 to win)
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I definitely agree with the fact that many people automatically assume SWF is OP because of comms. Completely dismissing the skill level of the player, which is more valuable than knowing where you are hiding your hex totem.
I would rather 1000x play with someone Halfway competent and I would gladly sacrifice the comms.
Thing is People who play in survive with friends, are more often than not... doing it because they want to play with their friends and not because they think it’s an advantage... Not every SWF goes into a match as coordinated and Ready to sweat as some may think.
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Honestly most SWF get themselves killed more than often because they are having fun with friends and just messing around. There's that 1% that for some reason killers act like is every game that tries super hard but that is fairly rare imo.
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Honestly knowing your playing against a SWF put me in the advantage a few times. I know they'll be super saving their friends or atleast be hanging in an area. Snowballed a team with plague and infectious fright because most of the time they have a little buddy hiding near by ready to play hero :p
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That is very true, I never try and do the objective, I try to hug the killer, then he lifts me up and puts me on a hook
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100% agree I play with a few friends and its only because we want to play together and were sick of the survivor rando dwights who try to play locker roulette till hatch spawns while your repairing gens and doing objectives till the killer finds you
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Most of these are just not needed to say, I don't need to tell my friend many of these things because they don't do them in first place or the opposite I can hear something useful and still forget about it, like someone says killer has bamboozle don't go the shack I can still run into it, see that bamboozle in action and still get killed because I don't pay much attention to perk callouts. Yes this is very powerful for someone who sweat every match, but as somebody said above I just want average matches, and I can get them only with someone who knows what to do in the match most of the time, randoms are clearly don't know how to repair gens and always chasing me to heal me when we are playing against legion, damn I even had survivor who tried to show me how to cleanse against The Plague when I clearly don't want to cleanse against her. Some randoms go for a save when Bubba camps basement and die in there too, then they proceed to complain about Bubba being camper instead of just repairing gens and leaving. My friend don't do that and they won't even if we don't use voice chat, we just simply chatting, no sweat, no tryhards. I hope you get my point too.
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And you forgot that only pro survs use that callouts, I'm still standing on my point that SWF is not OP, but good survivors (especially in SWF) can be overpowered and there is not much you can do but adapt and learn how to play against them in a specific ways. And also always ignore complains, it's you who tries to deal with them now since they are good.
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Lemme change this real quick to what I usually say
1) Come to me real quick I wanna show you something funny
2)Look a hex!
3)I am gonna unhook this sh**ter
4)I'm in a chase and I don't know where my gen is at (Just got off my gen)
5) Help me I am by a tree (Usually only see third seal on Red forest)
6)Killer has sprite fury, make sure you hit her/him as much as possible
7)I cleansed all totems (Actually lying so later I can say "Sh*t forgot one)
8)THIS IS MY GEN (Proceeds to hiss at teammate)
9)Found ruin, its by me (Does not tell my teammates where I am)
10)(Says the danny devito meme involving dropping)
11) Lemme open gate I need points, you (Teammates name) go to other gate with a toolbox and do something I guess, break hooks
This is actually just me saying not every swf takes the game seriously
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Huh, now that I think about it my favorite word is shi*ter
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Let me apply your logic to something else: "omega blink Nurse isn't op because not everyone plays her optimally!"
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Removed from ranked?
There IS NO RANKED.
It's all casual.
Your "rank" is a monthly reset, matchmaking tool which only resets to make sure people are where they belong.
There is NO RANKED MODE IN DBD.
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People get in over their head about their "rank" for some odd reason and think that pipping means a win or if you depip thats a loss.... which isn't really good to go by if you ask me tbh.
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Exactly. The first like, two months I was hyped to get my rank up. Then it clicked that it serves zero purpose for competitiveness. Now the game is much more fun.
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Even as someone who plays mostly killer, I sadly agree with this.
We must mold our playstyle around SWF because of how large of a part this feature is to the game.
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Hell according to the "SWF is fine because not everyone plays optimally" logic Nurse doesn't need a nerf. Nor does prayer beads Spirit and Insta-saw Billy. And Reworked Legion should revert back to old Legion.
This is a party game after all. We don't want to balance around high level survivor or killer play. /s
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So remove SWF because there is 1 of 100 SWF groups that sweat and tryhard? This is your point? Instead of giving some solo's nice things let's just remove something needed. If SWF is gone, most of survivors too, I won't play with randoms who do nothing but hide every second until someone is hooked and then after he is hooked they go for a save and then after they save they also want to heal him and another person goes down in that time. This match will end up with 7 gens awaiting to be at least touched because the only people who care about repairing is actually hanging on the hooks one after another.
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Nah SWF is broken because of third party equipment and the fact all 4 survivors have common goals and know exactly what the others are doing
Good survivors are fine
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SWF shouldn't be removed. The solo-SWF gap should be closed and killers buffed up to SWF levels.
But to deny the existence of the gap and pretend SWF is not OP is foolish.
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Average survivors are just that solo or otherwise, but comms do change things. As an individual their playstyle might not change but the team does become more effective. You may be doing the same as always but now your teammates can make decisions based on your knowledge as well. Coordinated teamwork is a killer's biggest weakness.
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@Peanits has corrected this several times.
“I confirmed this with the data team this morning, the 80% isn't exactly accurate. The stats are taking your rank after the match, not the rank you went in with. The data was also collected between April 1st and April 7th, when it was significantly harder for survivors to pip. As a result, those who died typically deranked back to rank 2 and their death would be counted as a rank 2 death. It was very rare for someone to die at rank 1 and remain rank 1, hence the incredibly high survival rate.
Basically most of the deaths were counting towards rank 2, not rank 1, so the escape rate was much higher than it should be.
I received a stat for the escape rate from the 11th and it was around a 43% escape rate.”
Still don’t believe me? Have a screenshot:
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@yamaoka_rin@Yamaoka Actually that's not true at all.
Even bad omega blink nurses do well. Which just goes to show how OP she actually is.
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@GrootDude well you should read what i wrote xd
about 90% survival rate was sarcasm (look what image i posted) and that image is good, what you wrote its about image from link not which i put here, xd and Peanits was many times correcting survival rate per rank not survival rate per group size xd
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Lol killer is litterally the lowest ring of hell, honestly I have more fun playing solo survivor
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Finally, someone who understands!
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i like that guy up there that said (and i quote):
"There's also the basic fact that this is a horror game where you are not suppossed to know whether your teammates will help you or leave you to die"
super funny statement bud :) in solo queue i used to think more people actually wanted points & wanted to play the game, but now i'm about 95% certain whether my solo queue teammates will leave me to die or not.. i get super surprised 5% of the time for sure!
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Yey data. Love it.
Shame it's only a week of data and not more.
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