What killers do you think could need some buffing?
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Since legion is a 115% killer now, it doesn't really make sense to decrease their terror radius. Plus, their detection with killer instinct is tied to their terror radius, so this would be a nerf to their power.
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I mean, Ghost Face, Pig, Shape and Plague will be receiving buffs indirectly with the map reworks, which is why I said that they probably don't need individual buffs. The other ones will also get buffed be the reworked maps, so they won't need any big buffs in my opinion.
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His whole diet consists of fibre rather than chili at this point haha. He'll always be my main and I'm still glad I put thousands of hours into him allowing me to see every single opportunity to use his chainsaw but (at least) some addon fixes would be appreciated.
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Do you do generally well with him at rank 1? I'm just curious.
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I agree that you shouldn't be a d*ck to anyone in an argument but his opinion can be refuted which means he can be wrong. That's the whole point of an argument. To persuade someone that you're right and they're wrong. It's not that they're not respecting his opinion, they're just refuting him of something that can be proven. Saying Nurse is the best killer is fact, not an opinion.
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Perhaps, however this reminds me of a game I had today..I'm rank 1 and got placed in a rank 9 insidious bubba, the two rank 19 swf players got hammered immediately..however me and a rank 3 ranxom..ran him enough to get almost 3 gens by ourselves..because we knew what to do..sadly..the random lead him to me and he had bloodlust and a pwyf stack so we sadly lost..but just two players nearly stomped him..1 more person and it would have been an easy win..now..we had no communication yet we did better than the swf by miles, and not long in the future survivors will be receiving buffs to keep solos close to swf in power..now imagine what will happen when randoms hold that kind of power..and swf will unavoidably benafit from it too..that's my thought process here
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Omg please stop saying nerf billy. Just get good and avoid getting sniped from the distance
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Yes to a certain extent. Of course I'm not going to go into any analysing but in some cases it's very hard to call something an absolute fact when talking about a game's balance. But to an extent, I do agree. Even then, people are still allowed to think what they want. It's just a game in the end. The devs are the ones who then need to make the right decision, trying to figure out what exactly can be seen as a fact when it comes to balance.
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I would also like for legion's power to be a little bit lethal. Give him the ability to down people purely through his power if played well. This would separate bad legion players from good legion players much more frequently.
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Fixing the auto-aim and hitboxes could be enough or give every killer another passive power.
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In no way or shape did I suggest killers need to lose. I specifically stated the draw conditions as stated by the devs of the game in question. If you think killers getting 4ks each game is needed and good for the games health - you are delusional.
I do agree that the pipping system is horrible but that's as far as I agree with you.
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If the game is balanced the way you stated that's exactly how the game will turn out..even implied killers need nerfs all over..so yes you fmdid imply that..no I didnt whatsoever imply a 4k each game is necessary, what I did I simulate is that it should be given if earned and sane goes for escapes..but that's not where we are
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Killers dont need buffs, the gameplay needs a buff to make killers playable.
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@Leonardo1ita I don’t get sniped from a distance but from close up
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Again, im not making up figures, the devs have stated that their ideal draw scenario is 2 kills and 2 escapes. And i think they are right. Too many kills and survivors won't want to play. Too many escapes and killers won't want to play. As is, not enough survivors are escaping to reach the ideal goal of 2 kills and 2 escapes. I'm not calling for blanket killer nerfs. I'm not advocating for blanket survivor nerfs. I do think that certain add-ons and offerings could use work but I think that claiming most killers need buffs when they're arguably slightly too powerful is counter-productive and ultimately not good for the games health.
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@immortalls96 it’s even possible that one survivor can run the killer around the whole game.
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Most killers are too weak..the fact you dont day that betrays what you say..and once again..43 percent escape rate with mass dcing being an issue which skews the stats massively meand your looking at this backwards..the matchmaking stats even show there are not enough killers which is making matchmaking even worse..so it seems your a tad short on data because if killers had too many strong things then how come we have a killer shortage? The answer is obvious
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Precisely
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@SleepyWillo agreed.
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I feel like they should make the addons more interesting instead of just, make survivors mangled, faster charge speed on chainsaw, exhaust survivors in gas, increase range, because it's just so bland and doesn't add enough to their power. Addons can make the killers play style more interesting and different than their regular power. I mean just look at the Freddy's addons after the rework. He's got dream pallets which completely changes his play style and slow progression if survivors are asleep. Now that's what I'd like to see more.
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I'm not saying that for a reason - I dont agree with that. Firstly with the DC's (and I look forward to harsher punishment for DCs in general), I think its obvious that someone who DC's isnt having a good game and would have most certainly died (or DC'd on death). In all honesty - a DC is clearly a death.
What platform are you playing on? From what I've seen there isnt a killer shortage... There is a sharp decline in survivors (hence the recent survivor BP boost as an attempt to draw more survivors to play that role - especially during bloodpoint events)
An escape rate of approximately 40%, across all ranks, is clearly 10% below the desired targeted 50% survival rate (2 escapes and 2 kills). In-game changes since these figures were released (healing nerf, EGC, hatch mechanic, etc) have only made killers more powerful and have lessened the number of survivors escaping. Saying that killers need buffs to ensure even less survivors escape is just nonsense.
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Ok..funny how my stats come from actual dev stats..and I'm sorry but the egc probably barely registered in escape rate and the survival rate will never be even fifty fifty due to skill level differences..and based on what I'm seeing playing survivor it's scary considering the overall lack of skill a lot of survivors display..you my friend are the one spouting nonsense..not me
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I feel like they should buff the addons but also make it more interesting instead of just, make survivors mangled, faster charge speed on chainsaw, increased range, and so on because it's just not strong enough and makes their power very bland. Addons can make the killers ability more unique and powerful at the same time. I mean just look at Freddy's rework. He has addons to give him dream pallets, which gives the players two powers to choose from and slow progression when survivors are asleep. Now that's what I'd like to see more.
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These are my stats. Where are yours? Escape rate is considerably lower (~30%) at rank 20 and reaches an all time high of just over 40% at rank 1.
And yes, I dont have stats since the healing nerf, EGC and hatch mechanic changes, but I can assume that the escape rates have lowered for obvious reasons.
I dont understand how you can claim that EGC wouldnt make a difference to escape rates. It puts a lot of pressure on survivors to either attempt unsafe unhooks due to time pressure or just leave a teammate on the hook. Prior to this teams could just heal up before going for a rescue. Even if you dont think that makes a difference you have the "unable to escape" bug which means plenty of survivors are dying to the EGC on its own. It will be a long time before realistic statistics will be usable but to claim EGC has no significant effect on survivor escape rates is just laughable.
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Considering the only time I see the collapse kill anyone is when survivors allow it...I'm disinclined to agree
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And the other points? Can you provide your "stats"?
You've never seen a survivor die to EGC because they couldnt open the gates after the hatch was closed? Have you even played the game since the change was implemented? You dont even have to down or hook the survivor - just make sure they dont open the gates and its still counted as a hook sacrifice! You get a kill for just standing between two gates! And with the exception of Lerys or the Game, and really terrible RNG, youre almost guaranteed the gates will be beside eachother!
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You want stats ? Here..let me tell you why I laugh at these stats , nurse alone makes up 20 percent of killers at rank one..now..add Billy and spirit , let's say each is used 15 percent..its likely higher but for the sake of topic let's say thsts the case..now..the top three likely make up at least 50 percent of killers at rank one..yet..despite all their power the escapecrate is still almost half and half. ..now sit and think about that for a minute..3 out of all the cast result in half the games played yet the stats are still that high for INDIVIDUAL escape rates..when you look at it this way..you realize why even the devs,streamers, and fog whisperers say the stats are nonsense and with dcs added in you begin to see the stats are far from complete..and even as badly skewed as they are it's still that high..now you begin to understand
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I tried to post a detailed reply but accidentely closed the thread (insert "I want to die" meme here) so here's the short(er) version:
Bubba massively lacks map pressure due to his normal 115% mobility and has no actual stall potential which is something I notice every time I play at red ranks (which hasn't been the case since the latest rank reset as I'm kind of bored of dbd at the moment and waiting for the new chapter [got a new meme build in mind featuring one of the Demogorgon's perks]).
He does however have lethality due to his real instadown (by "real" I mean it can be used at all times/spontaneously/infinitely/no annoying power bar) which often allowed me to make crazy comebacks even when I thought I was going to lose completely. An instadown can always be a game changer especially once the pallets are out of the way.
So yes, I generally do well at red ranks but at the same time I see his weaknesses and understand why many people consider Bubba weak. If people don't immediately see the chance to chainsaw someone he can turn into a M1 killer with no power pretty quickly especially at red ranks as people stick to windows and pallets more frequently.
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ye lol i also do double pip on burgerking myers on red ranks . he needs nerf in my opinion lol
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What in the ever loving [BAD WORD] are you talking about? 60% kill rate/40% escape rate isnt 50/50. And you cant claim thats high escape rates- thats still terrible escape rates. Do you even know what youre trying to say anymore? If you want to go through the various killer kill rates we can - and guess what? They are each greater than 50%! EVERY. KILLER. Even pre-rework Freddy was averaging more than 50% kill rate! Its just that by nerfing survivors as a whole instead of targeting specific offerings/add-ons, they've made already powerful killers even more powerful.
And btw - the Hag, Hillbilly and Trapper have the highest kill rates (at least on PC they were in the 60's - and again that was before the survivor nerfs)
And I've already stated that the results are skewed. DCs are clearly a survior death and that would likely make the stats even worse for survivor escapes and higher for killer kills.
And I'm still waiting for you to show your claimed stats. I produced mine. Can you at least show yours to substantiate your claims?
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Mine come from comments made by the devs..I've stated my point and it's gone over your head..I'm done talking with you as I'm not looking to lose my head and get irked like you clearly have..good day
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Can you post a link to these comments for me? I would be generally interested to see these comments if they exist.
Peanuts has posted in the "Community Data Requests" the infographics that were posted in the live devstreams (like the one I posted earlier). If you want to review them and come back to me I would be more than willing to continue this conversation with you.
Good luck and have fun out there in the fog!
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Well on the one side it's just not the game's balance that has an influence on these kind of stats. I have seen more than enough survivors that dc as soon as they get downed or when they get hooked for the first time, or they just kill themselves. That can potentially turn a 4 man escape into a 1 man or 0 man escape. They don't just dc when they are about to die, but even then I have seen a few cases where a survivor dc's because he is dead and it screws over the team because the killer doesn't have to carry them to a hook anymore.
Also, matchmaking plays a big role as well. It can take just one potato to cause the other three skilled survivors to not escape. That all has nothing to do with the game's balance.
Lastly, at least at red ranks, many prefer to play the very strong killers, and the op one called Nurse. Against those the survival rate of course won't be too high, but that doesn't showcase the balance of the weaker killers really to well, and that they don't need any buffs at all.
On the other hand of course, these stats show that in this game's current state, the devs need to be careful with killer buffs and that any buff could be too much. In particular, it would be good to buff these weak killers in a way that it increases their skill cap and that their increased potential can only be used by skilled killer players, or that it isn't a buff that makes the killer easier to play effectively for lower ranked killer players, so pretty much buffing an aspect of a killer that will only help higher skilled killer players. That's why I don't think they could just buff Leatherface's ability. Pretty sure he is already very srong at low ranks and that would make him too good. I agree in that way.
I do think that buffing the weaker killers won't do much harm though. Solo survivors are probably gettng buffs to close the gap between solo and swf, and I hope they improve the matchmaking as well, which would make the experience for survivors also better. Killers aren't affected by the matchmaking nearly as jmuch in a sense that they don't have to rely on anyone else, but survivors do.
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Sadly no, as I dont remember which posts they exactly came from here..all I know is it came from peanits , whom even stated the stats arnt reliable..that's all i can say
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I wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything you've said.
I think matchmaking is one of the biggest issues in the game at the moment (besides the obvious bugs) and that they should focus on that before blanket buffs to the weaker killers. Low rank survivors matched with high ranked killers, and visa versa, would skew any data and make for unfun and unfair games. I think once matchmaking is addressed (and hopefully DC's with dedicated servers), and ideally incentives to rank up to your skill rank, would allow for clearer data and allow us as a community, and the devs in particular, to clearly see what aspects of the game require tweaks and the best way to approach these.
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Ok I was just curious. Despite my post I'm happy to see that people can do very well with these lower tier killers at high ranks. It makes me think they are not in a too bad place and just shows me that I also still have a way to go to improve at killers.
Sounds like Leatherface and Clown have very similar problems though. Both lack severe map pressure. Clown is just better at chases, but is even slightly worse than Letherface at map pressure since he also has to waste time reloading bottles often. And Leatherface can punish survivors that are out of position with an instadown, often forcing them away from gens a bit earlier.
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Was this the comment by any chance:
"We made an error when pulling the stats: We used your rank after the game rather than before.
- This meant that if you died and depipped, you would go back to rank 2. Your death would be counted as a rank 2 death rather than a rank 1 death.
- As a result, the survival rate went way down at rank 2, then way up at rank 1.
We grabbed the correct survival rate once we noticed the error. It was much closer to 43%."
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That is one of them yes
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As much as it iches me to see Doctor and Clown get some small buffs, since they are two of my favorite killers in the game, I agree. It's probably better if they improve on matchmaking first. Though I do believe that some very small buffs to those killers wouldn't really do any harm to the game. Almost certain. But not a 100% of course. At least have Clown fill up his bottles when he gets a hook. That would just help him with map pressure ever so slightly. I can't imagine that Clown and Doc are very good at low ranks anyways, so a buff to them probably wouldn't make much of a difference at all.
But with the coming map reworks in particular, they really need to make sure that matchmaking is one of their top priorities, before anything else probably. And dc's need to be punished more as well. Pretty sure that would sometimes help even those people who would otherwise dc, causing them maybe even to win and not screw their other teammates over.
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I would just like Trapper to have an easier time setting up. Feels like Hag and Freddy do his job differently but ultimately better
For starters he should start with 2 traps and be able to carry 2 without add-ons. It might also help if some or all of his traps spawn open. That way even with his long set up time, he’ll at least have traps ready to go out the gate. Even if they’re in sub optimal locations they might actually grab someone as opposed to just doing nothing
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Sounds all quite reasonable, though I don't think the pallet and vault speed of M1 killers needs to be increased. Their chase potential will be increased once maps have more mindgameable loops, which is the preferable way to go, since mindgaming takes skill, and just breaking pallets one after the other not so much.
they are definitely touching Nurse though, and while I think Spirit might be fine, I could see her use some small nerfs, without making her unviable in any way. Her prayer beads addon really needs to go.
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I cant tell HOW the killers will need to be buffed, but apparently the devs are currently working on somewhat lessening the gap between solo and swf, which is information, which will still buff swf too, although not as much as solo.
This'll probably result in a time period lasting a minimum of 3 months with a really skewed ingame balance.
All killers would need to be buffed to compensate for the risen general power potential (or level) of survivors, be it some general buffs to killer mechanics or individually improved abilities and addons.
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QoL changes like trapper getting more traps at the beginning are good, but before buffing killers, the biggest change that needs to happen is a huge map rework. So many maps just aren't good. Start there, then buff. What map you get plays such a huge part in how well you do. Get a macmillon map? Maybe a 4k. Get yamaoka against the same survivors? Maybe 0 kills.
I get that the devs want map variety, but some of the maps they've made really stink for balance. So, first get a baseline for maps that is fair for both sides (which will probably mean shrinking or centralizing many maps - and of course completely gut haddonfield), then see how things go (and obviously nerf nurse)
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