Hex perks are not healthy for the game
Time and time again we get the same posts. Nerf NoEd, nerf Ruin. What always happens in response is an overwhelming majority of people that will say the following:
- Just run x counter-perk
- Just learn totem placements
- Just cleanse totems
- Just learn to hit great skill checks
- Just git gud
The problem with this is this forum appears to consist of mainly purple and red rank players, defending RNG as a acceptable game mechanic. The person posting is likely a green or yellow rank player.
I agree with people who say the game should be balanced at red ranks, but we should also consider the gaming experience of the new players with the introduction of Stranger Things. Playing as a solo against a Hillbilly with Ruin at low ranks is not balanced, exactly the same as playing Legion against a 4 Claudette swf death squad at red rank is not balanced.
If the game scares of new players by a lack of balance at the low end, the game will suffer as a result.
It IS time to rebalance the hex perks.
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Killer - 5 seconds into the game - ruin gone.
Surv - using small game - 5 seconds - ruin gone.
They need a look at, like some other perks.
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BHVR doesnt care about retention. They want to sell as many copies of the base game and the new, most expensive DLC as possible and then who cares. They'll get you again when they announce the Aliens chapter or the Dracula chapter... or whatever the Hell they decide to release next. They'll cash in on that... and just rinse and repeat. Theres been bugs in the game for MONTHS and no hotfix.. just shows they dont care about you. Sure, they're working on ALLLLL this other content... uhm, okay. Hows about fix the core game before adding another cosmetic? Probably took longer to upload that cosmetic into a quick patch then whatever bug fix that they put off pushing out. Its honestly #########. If they have a fix for any bug it should be pushed out immediately... especially stuff like not being able to heal in a game. Or the ranked bug. Yaok.
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Yeah no
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lower ranks have a hard time finding Ruin and NOED while higher ranks don't because of skill. The key factor is skill from the high ranks who know better giving actual advice to new low rank players. What is difficult for low rank Survivors is easy for low rank Killers, and what is easy for high rank Survivors is harder for high rank Killers, whatever is balanced for the high ranks will automatically be harder for low ranks and they won't accept any advice from people who know better. A lot of people don't accept that YOU NEED TO GET BETTER.
But GETTING BETTER is NOT ALWAYS the answer. Gen rush is when this is not the answer.
Hooks need to be reworked and Gens need to be reworked but mostly Gens. Totems on the other hand are difficult because they can't be made base. We could have a free totem spot to give Killers more breathing room but that leaves the lower ranks more vulnerable. Maybe the only simple fix is to change the totems themselves, change how they work, not just totem spots but totems in general and their mechanics to fit all level of players instead of skill. Skill is important in this game but not all things require it, for example this game does not need to make defending Gens skill based but it does and that combined with intentionally weaker designed Killers creates Gen rush. Totems don't need to be skill based because it's just finding an object so changing their design might be the best way.
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BHVR do care about us and the game. Why do you think that they have listens to all of our complaints and nerfed and buffed accordingly? 🙄
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It’d be unhealthy to nerf them in any way,shape, or form currently. If it was still a beta game and totems were never added then things would be fine, but now? Changing them in a negative way would be unhealthy for the game.
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Just because its not beta? I disagree, many full games change to make things better. Sometimes it doesn't go well but they're trying things. Look at Epic... haha. BHVR doesn't make changes, period. Which is the exact opposite of most companies. And thats an issue. Gameplay is stale and broken. A huge, positive change, is exactly whats needed. Fix some bugs, do whatever positive change and do it now. Don't wait 2 years to fix crippling issues. Thats how you lose a playerbase.
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Do you see the amount of people who rely on ruin? Hate to say it but changing Hex perks would do more harm than good.
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Wait hitting a skill check takes skill?
When lol all it requires is for you to care and try.
I said it once and I'll say it again ruin has no power except over the idiots who can't be bothered to hit the skillchecks.
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Honestly don't understand how you think it would do more harm than good. It could go either way if the developers actually got off their arses and did SOMETHING with it.
I mean, if they changed hexes so there was a dull totem count on screen somewhere that would be a good change. For killers and survivors. As a killer I'll know if my NOED is still up. As a survivor I'll know if there's late game potential for NOED.
Thats an example of a good change that I think could be implemented to totems.
A bad change would be to take all totem perks and stick them on 1 totem. So, if you're running Ruin, DH, NOED they're all on literally 1 totem. That would be bad. It COULD be good/cool if said totem took as long as a generator to cleanse/had skill checks. But, generally probably a weird/bad idea DEPENDING on how it was implemented.
I don't care how many people run Ruin, I personally never use it because its always gone within 10 sec of a match starting. As a general rule of thumb though changing this doesn't necessarily do more harm than good. It 100% always depends on if its actually a good change. And probably whether you, as the end user, actually agree with the change, haha.
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Just going to post this in every totem thread I see. They’re already balanced in that survivors can straight up turn them off and now the Killer has one less perk. Hex perks are only as good as survivors let them be. I haven’t even been playing that long and when I play survivor I make it a point to cleanse every totem I come across just in case i can help us shut down NOED before it even starts
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I think Ruin is the main contender. It would be nice if it's effect wouldn't be so much greater against low ranks survivors than it is against high rank survivors. Decreasing the regression of good skill checks to 4% or 3%, and then adding a 1% or 2% regression to great skill checks would probably do that, but I feel like many people wouldn't be happy with that either.
I don't mind the idea of Hex Perks in general. It's like having a small 2nd objective for survivors, having to find that Hex Totem to remove the strong effect of the Hex Perk.
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The thing about hex perks is they are not meant to last the entire game. They are a risk and a choice to use for a reward which can turn the tide of the game.
Ruin as an example it just to slow down how fast gens get done Initially to give the killers a chance to get one or more on the hook before gens pop.
Ruin has to last at least 15 seconds even if in plain sight but it's generally a lot more for most matches and well the best survivors can work through it. It still does it's job for the vast majority of players who can't hit great skill checks constantly and if they hunt for it all the better as they are not on gens.
Totems are in essense a second objective but it's just luck how long they last due to someone randomly coming across it.
To say a counter would be good for the game is just your opinion. Knowing isn't the be and end all of this game. Personally I prefer them not knowing as killer. Think about it if survivors see one totem left would they try to body block at end game? And thats just one example. How many funny moments have happened due to a not knowing scenario's? Killers already know due to the perk not being active one the gens pop.
Totems are fine for the most part it's just how they spawn that could be sorted. Frankly no survivor should ever spawn next to a lit totem and none should be out on the open or next to a gen but the do need to spawn all over the map as people learn spawn points if there are few of them so the more there are the longer they have a chance to stay in game.
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Or..they will get killed by them, looked up what happened, learn how Totems work, and learn to cleanse totems. You know; adapt to the games mechanics, like in ANY PvP game.
I'm tired of people acting like Totems are these uber evil perks that no new player will ever like & they need to be removed 'fOr ThE hEaLtH oF tHe GaMe!' to push their agenda of nerfing anything that prevents them from winning in under 2 minutes.
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Possibly, but isn't it also possible that new players will go against other new players? I'm guessing some new players will also want to play killer.
Which Hex perks exactly would be overwhelming for ne players though? They are just perks in the end but with strong effects, but I don't think that new players will find it impossible to find totems. And these perks have the same effects at lower ranks as they have at higher ranks.
Hex: Ruin is the exception, which has an effect that is stronger against newer players than against experienced survivors, since the difference between hitting good and great skill checks is big, unlike with normal skill checks, where the difference between hitting a good or a great skill check isn't very big at all. That perk should probably have a lesser difference between good and great skill checks.
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hex perks are good for the game. they encourage survivors to find and break totems. breaking totems is easy, fun, rewarding, and sometimes challenging. games where no totems are broken are too easy, not fun, not rewarding, and only slightly challenging.
if people are so focused on thinking they want to be the best that they want to offer advice on changing things in the game, perhaps they're just seeking more fun out of mundane experiences they are already having. there's good news for that too: more fun already exists! it's called breaking totems & doing things other than trying to gen rush meta..
challenge yourself to make sure every totem is broken in every game you play and see if you don't have a much better time. if not, what did you lose?
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Remember how facing a hillbilly with Ruin used to feel when we were learning the game? A solo yellow rank survivor, playing with other solo yellow rank survivors. Everyone slugged within the first three minutes?
This is going to be the experience of the new players. I can already hear the sound of Hillbillies deranking themselves in the distance.
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Remember how facing a good set of survivors used to feel when we were learning the game? A solo yellow rank killer, playing without the safety of teammates who might carry him. Getting looped for more than three minutes?
Why is everyone talking like new players are only going to play survivor? There'll probably be quite a few fans of Stranger Things wanting to play as the Demogorgon.
My point is there is no justification to change such a significant game mechanic out of fear that new players might get turned off by it. Games, especially competetive ones, require skill and (time) investment to be good at. If the new players quit the game after one match where they got stomped, then so be it. That mentality equals dc'ing after getting downed for the first time or getting looped for "too Long".
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yeah i gotta say, that's pretty much what the games are always going to be like sometimes.. are you suggesting some kind of enchanted protection for newer players that would prevent yellow and brown rank killers from using ruin? or just yellow and brown rank hillbillies? what about nurse without ruin.. she slugs a bunch.. should she be a surprise waiting for new players once they rank down low enough for them to start getting chances at her lobbies?
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@chieftaco - No but I would like to see some kind of enchanted protection for veteran players that would prevent red and purple rank survivors from using Adrenaline, BT, DS and Dead Hard. That would be wonderful!
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with nancys perk coming out, aren't people going to be more determine to cleanse any bones? initally getting rid of MORE hex totems and well the up and coming NOED? just a thought...running that and small game.....o.O
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Also it's never good to rely on perks, esp as some haven't worked.
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Yes, that and the extra points for cleansing are both trying to encourage people to cleanse my bones. The devs are moving this in the right direction.
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Maybe killers need a new perk, other then the one that knows they are doing a hex totem, for bones? make it a little more challenging?
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Honestly, with the counter being hold m1 on a stack of bones for 5 sec, I don't get how people think hexes are killer favoured. Its absolutely mind blowing. If each survivor took 30 sec at the start of every game to do a quick scout and cleanse run then there would never be a hex up.
This serves another purpose too. If you do this instead of ramming your junk into the first gen you see then you probably won't be spotted by the killer as fast and you'll probably get a chance to scout them. Pretty valuable information.
Basically every killer game I play people are so hot and horny for them gens that on my first patrol, Hell the first gen I walk to, I find and down someone. If I had to go around the whole map a second time because none of the gens were running... welp, unless I'm running whispers then I'm just doing hot laps. Meanwhile the survivors popped all the bones, if I'm running hexes. Games now in their favour as I'm down maybe 1 or more perks.
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That sounds more so a problem with de-ranking, new players on both sides are gonna get bullied by players who choose to de-rank, we can’t really fix that. Fun Fact: When I started we had dark maps, old DS, pallet vacuum, old exhaustion and a rank reset that put everyone back at rank 20, it really wasn’t fun for newbies and it didn’t matter if a experienced killer had ruin if every survivor was new.
The problem here is de-ranking and not hex perks.
I can agree with this, most people (including myself) have a perk or maybe even more that we rely on.
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As a Survivor, Ruin sucks, but I'd much rather deal with Ruin than Sloppy Butcher, slowing down all the healing to a snail's pace. Throw in Thana and Clownphobia and it's a damn nightmare.
If you're having trouble keeping Ruin up, run some of those other perks instead. You'll slow the game down every time you hit someone, and with paired healing that's two players off gens.
As far as Hexes go, I like them. They give totems a purpose and it's fun to run around Cleansing rather than work on gens (or rescue teammates; am I right guys? heh kidding!)
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This.
I have never understood the attitude towards totems from SOME survivors. My wife plays and uses small game, and generally accepts that whilst being a pain in the arse.... hexs can be stopped. Hex totems can be broken, simple as that.
New players will either adapt or move on. Just like every survivor currently playing.
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