Time Limit
No match should go on forever.
That's why we now have the End Game Collapse, a.k.a. the EGC.
But what to do if multiple Survivors are able to hide super well?
I mean sure, the Killer not finding two/three/four might be their fault, but does that justify the fun being ruined?
It also doesn't matter if it happens very little, cause the times they do happen will only exist because "Suck up being held captive, it's only once."
New: A passive time limit that is VERY generous, yet doesn't make it boring and also doesn't allow for possible infinite-duration matches.
The match lasts 8 minutes, every Generator completed adds another 3 minutes.
Time's up? Entity kills all 4.
Still seems like a lot, but then you remember those few matches where everyone plays so well back and forth that it lasts for nearly twenty minutes.
And like i said before, leaving out those few matches just because there's a few of them, we can't have that.
There's not really a need for this right now.
While i like the idea of removing all possibilities of "taking hostage", i do see that it's truly not important as of now.
Comments
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i rather not having that. just use wishpers or surveilance, youll find someone at some point
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Oof, having to use a Perk slot on something that happens very rarely?
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both perks are useful in so many situations idk whats the problem you have running them, i just gave you solutions to your problem, stealth is a playstyle and itll stay in the game forever
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They are useful.
The problem is that you're suggesting that, to fix a problem that can be fixed in a better way, people should give up a Perk slot instead.
It's a solution, but a bad one that is often done by the devs: Just use this Perk.
Stealth is indeed a playstyle and i don't know why you bring that up, since that's not what this is about at all.
Stealth does not equal hostage.
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well whenever survivrors complain about campin or tunneling everyone jumps saying "its a playstyle deal with it" or "use x perk to counter it"
that said, if theyre still trying to win (even if its just waiting til the other dies to get hatch) it shouldnt be considered hostage imo
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It wouldn't be fair. The timer should be so much generous there's not point of having a timer. Conditions should be met, survivors can run out of time not because they were not willing to do gens, but because they were occupied elsewhere.
Also this would speed the genrush even more.
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Oof having a feature added for something that happens rarely?
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Yes, cause there's no need to keep an opportunity for this problem in the game.
No one has to worry about it since most people won't have to deal with it.
Saying there's no need for it is a good indicator you won't have to deal with it, but you're not speaking for everyone.
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Genrush is a problem by itself and needs a separate fix.
As for the timer, if 23 minutes in total isn't enough, then it's not the timer that needs fixing.
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But they're not trying to win.
They're giving up their primary objective to hide.
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Even if the killer is so bad and the survivors so good at stealth that no one ever gets found (which I have never seen happen), survivors don't want to be sitting around doing nothing any more than you do. They're playing the game because they want to do gens and escape. Just because they're not genrushing doesn't mean they're holding the game hostage. They're either going around doing other objectives, in which case you should have plenty of chances to catch them, or they're focusing completely on being immersed and not doing anything, but that's super boring for everyone and I don't see why they would do that. I just don't see any rational incentive for what you're describing to ever take place, and if it does, it's so extremely rarely that it doesn't need fixing. Worst case scenario, maybe one game in 5000, you're forced to disconnect and report them.
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This comment's first half is based on a a false fact: They don't want to sit around doing nothing?
Cause that's incorrect, both sides sometimes simply want to "bully" the other side by stretching out the game's length.
Not seeing why they would do that doesn't mean they won't do that.
It also does not affect the regular matches one bit, as that's simply not how long regular matches last.
It's purely to remove the potential of taking a match hostage.
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Then Generators add an additional minute.
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Killers should not have to use perk slots to make up for bad game design.
You also can't expect a player to have a certain perk on all killers.
A match must be playable without any perks.
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From time to time, I have matches where only 2 survivors are alive with still 2 or 3 gens left to be done. The survivors know at that point that chances to get all gens repaired are super slim. And now in some cases, both survivors stop working entirely and just wait for the other person to die so they have a chance at the hatch.
In that scenario, when I play a killer with a normal terror radius without the help of tracking perk, I won't find a survivor hiding randomly on the map.
This is hostage-taking by the survivors and we need a solution for this.
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Sorry, I should have made myself clearer, but I didn't want the comment to be too long. It's not based on a "false fact" but rather a general understanding of human nature. What I should have said was, they don't want to sit around doing nothing because there's nothing in it for them. Not only is it wasting their time as much as it's wasting yours, but they're not having any more fun than you are.
Killers and survivors bully each other because they find it fun and they don't care if the other person does or not. Survivors do not find sitting behind a bush for 20 minutes fun - as a stealth-based survivor main, I can personally attest to this. Evading the killer is fun. Sitting in one spot or crouching around the map doing nothing but walking and waiting forever is not fun. People don't bully other people if there's nothing in it for them. That's just not how human psychology works.
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Perhaps. I was under the impression that OP was suggesting that sometimes survivors enter matches with the single-minded intention of doing nothing for 20 minutes but hiding, without completing any objectives, just to irritate the killer. No one does that.
But even so, the situation you're describing is not taking the game hostage. It's only taking the game hostage if there is literally nothing you can do except DC. In this situation, there is something you can do - find the survivors. They're not invisible, and they're not faster than you. I'm sorry to be that guy going "git gud" but honestly, it's not the game's fault if you're not skilled enough to outmaneuver your opponents.
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I get how it's not fun.
But that's not the point.
Some people deem camping not fun, yet will do it sometimes.
Same applies here, and to let the hostages be taken hostage just cause it happens very little isn't right.
The numbers might need to be raised some more, but the time limit won't ever affect any regular players, INCLUDING stealth players.
It's not meant to apply pressure to normal gameplay, and if it does, once again, i'll happily raise the numbers some more.
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@Fibijean That's why I wrote "a killer with a normal terror radius" and "without the help of a tracking perk": In these cases, you won't find a survivor.
Try it with a friend in KYF: You play a killer with a 32 m terror radius and don't use anything like Whispers and your friend tries to hide from you as long as possible. Or the other way around. It will change your view on the "you can still find the survivor" situation.
And the devs consider this as taking the game hostage, too. That's why they introduced the EGC, because you aren't going to find a survivor under these circumstances in an acceptable amount of time.
Edit: You should not tell other people to "git gud" when it's obvious that you lack knowledge & experience.
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My point wasn't that people don't do it because it's not fun, it's because there's nothing in it for them. The bit about fun was just to counter your point about people being bullies for the sake of it.
Killers camp because they think there's something in it for them. Either they want to secure the kill for the sake of BPs/ranking up because they don't realise it's not the best strategy, or they just do it for the satisfaction of watching a particularly toxic survivor die. Either way, there's something in it for them, even if it's not "fun". 99.9% of the time, you won't find a single survivor who spends the entire game hiding and nothing else, let alone a full team, because there's simply zero incentive for them to do so.
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My bad for not understanding you actually meant there's nothing to gain.
Yet the same still applies though, or otherwise it would never happen and this post wouldn't exist.
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That is decent logic, I suppose. Even if I can't imagine how or why something like this could happen, either I'd have to be prepared to call you a liar or it does, in fact, happen regardless.
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