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Why the gen speed needs to be increased
Comments
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yeah i don't even need to see the specifics to know that whatever the evidence is is only relative to whatever games it happened to be taken from..
i've been playing for a long time, and i've played long enough to know that dead by daylight trials are totally random.. you never know what is gonna happen in the fog, even with the exact same people in the exact same circumstances against the exact same killer.
i know some of the most popular dbd players out there to be ridiculously bad at the game. they play the game complaining about how dumb their teammates are for the things they're doing, completely ignoring that they are the ones who showed their teammates that that's how you play the game :) honestly i love watching them get all worked up about it..
when it comes to DbD everyone has an opinion based on bad times they've had but they forget that those bad times are usually relative to that one experience. having the same experience over and over again is usually because you're playing with the same people or you're trying to insist on playing the game the same way because maybe it works now and then.. either way, it's just a random DbD game.
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The big question is "How do you bring down the best of the best without creating a more negative experience for everyone else?" You can't just flat-out increase gen repair time because less good Survivors who don't power through Ruin like nothing get affected by it as well. There needs to be a solution that can target those super top Survivors that doesn't screw poor 'ol Bud who hasn't been playing for too long and is still in green ranks.
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It's just not the right way to do something about the objective.... holding the button for over min isn't fun at all, if something happens to the objective/gens it needs to be an addition to the objective...
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the best red rank games were always the ones where we never got any gens turned on and all 4 survivors died with double pips..
nowadays red ranks are full of squatters & dc'ers cuz it was a little monotonous always playing with the same 20 people. rip real reds! i miss you guys!
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I still say that 2 minutes for three gens with Ruin active the whole time is too fast, even when the Killer is overcommitting to a chase. It's not like it was a "5 gen chase tunnel vision I want this guy dead at all costs" thing going on. It was one chase that went on a bit longer than it was supposed to and the game swinging massively as a result. That's not the Survivors' fault for playing it correctly, but to me it shows just how little margin of error there is for most Killers and says to me that something somewhere should chage at least a little for the sake of the top-end play.
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It's truly amazing.
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He wins in almost all of his videos he uploads. If survivors play optimally, they should also have a chance to win. Which they do if they are fast enough on gens. Honestly, tru3ta1ent is extremely good, but he is no god. And even without a mori he probably still had a chance to win that game. But survivors need a chance to win as well, when they play optimally.
Pretty sure he has also won plenty of times against optimal survivors just because he played good enough and was able to defeat them at the end. If the devs increase objective time, the powerful killers, especially Nurse would become absolutely broken. The number of pallets would need to be increased, since survivors would need to be able to last in chases generally longer. Low ranks would get screwed over completely since they aren't as effective on gens, and the survival rate is relatively low at those ranks. Camping and tunneling would become way too effective. There is just too much they would have to address in addition a longer objective time.
Map reworks and buffing weaker killers is the best the devs can do.
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Overheat, a new universal mechanic for all gens.
For each second repairing a generator, the overheat bar will fill up. Completing a generator gives a small boost to the overheat bar. The more the overheat bar is filled, the more frequent and difficult skill checks become (smaller zones, smaller UI, shaking, etc.). Overheat bar will regress when no gens are being worked on.
Completing 2 gens simultaneously should fill the overheat bar to around 80% for reference. It would take 80 seconds to let the entire overheat bar regress. Obviously other testing required to nail time the numbers but this is the basic idea.
This makes gen rush still an option, just more difficult to pull off. Most players would be encouraged to spend time doing other things (looting chest, doing totems, etc.) in between popping gens to avoid the max overheat penalty.
And since less experienced players don't pop gens quickly, they would be less effect by this (or not at all in some cases). It would only affect the more experienced players that rush gens.
Just off the top of my head.
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Aka: Now I can get more greats and complete gens even FASTER!
Unless I'm a noob and miss skill checks
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Ruin dies in first minutes or is completely ignored by survivors by hitting great skilchecks
Corrupt intervention is early game perk that doesn't help much.
Thrilling Tremors gives only 16 seconds every minute.
Thanatophobia is bad. It has only some kind of effect on Plague and maybe Legion if survivors are stupid and keeps being near each other with him on the map, but I didn't notice much difference as a Legion even with all survivors injured.
Sloppy butcher seems to slow down a healing only if someone doesn't have medkit.
Pop Goes The Weasel is only reliable perk out of all these.
Also, sometimes killers want have fun and experiment with different builds at high ranks, but they can't because without Ruin or PGTW game ends too fast for them (unless you play holy trinity) and can't make enough pressure.
I use Ruin, Thanatophobia and Sloppy butcher on Legion. Guess how much it is effective with pretty good pressure… maybe 2-3 minutes longer than usual?
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Sounds like an interesting idea honestly. It could work if the devs can get the numbers right so that it really only makes effective gen rush more challenging and doesn't affect lower ranks in any way. Cause if they would face a bigger challenge repairing gens, then that would just make them repair gens even slower. But if the devs could get it right so that it only affects survivor teams that repair gens quite optimally, it could be worth at least some testing.
Maybe decreasing the amount of regression when a generator explodes because of a failed skill check would also be good, it could help the low rank survivors.
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Please remember to keep discussion about the topic at hand, not about other users.
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Even non-SWF players who are really good can blow through gens, Ruin or no. I have seen it first hand. Also, a lot of you are like "Don't chase too long and patrol gens". Killers win by killing. If all you do is run around and kick gens it just slows down the game, but doesn't accomplish the killer objective.
I have been on the wrong end of a gen-rush thrashing. Anyone who says it's not a thing only plays one side.
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survivors love to say "YuO JUST NEED MAP PRESSURE DURRRR" ignoring the fact that there's maybe 4 killers who can actually apply adequate map pressure, the rest just do not have the tools, getting around the map is far too slow and chases go on for far too long for most killers to cope with how easy it is to finish gens.
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A lot of people keep suggesting to nerf co-op generators, co-op generators is suppose to be encouraged. The issue is that killers need to land 3-5 hooks in the time that 3 generators are complete, however what is happening is that a killer is getting single hook out of 9 hook in the time it takes to do 3 generators. Look at it this way, The killer completed around 10% of his objective to win the match and survivors completed 60% of their objective. Demogorgon isn't terrible killer, but it's not nurse. Genrushing is normal in high ranks, but everyone knows buzz line "Just apply more map pressure" whatever that means.
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they know it's a meaningless thing that's why they keep saying it, they want to shift the blame off of game balanced and onto killer players to keep their one sided gameplay, while ignoring the fact that very few killers lack the tools to apply any meaningful map pressure at all.
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The Devs shared data showing that swf of 3 or 4 people made up about 25% of the game (rough estimate) at least half of those are potato at ruin skill checks. I think this problem of gen rushing with ruin up is prone to happen in about 8% of all matches. It's not high enough to overhaul the whole time taken to do gens.
Maybe if it was only at high ranks. But it would be unfair for medium and low ranks.
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A functioning clock?
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I am actually confused too... I am about to put the Bait gif if I wasn't so confused XD
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I was thinking that skill checks would reduce the overheat effect rather than add progress. With the exception of Ruin which would still work as it does (since greats do no progress anyway).
Play a week at rank 1 on Xbox you will see this data is skewed. It may be true for all ranks, but at red ranks every other game is a 4 man SWF. I know because I know most of the players at red ranks and they all play together in 4 man groups. And when I play killer I run into these groups all the time.
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Honestly. I'd rather speed up Killers rather than slow down Survivors.
I'm not necessarily talking about movement speed mind you (although if we DID increase the MS of a bunch of Killer's it would probably let them get more map pressure), but I mean give Killer's as a whole more tools to acquire map pressure, rather than just giving them free pressure when Survivors aren't contested.
For example some form of screen wrap where one edge of the map will take you to the other.
Or some action you can do to buff the Killer mid match
While I'm sure both of those have major issues, the point is that giving tools to Killers so they can actively counterplay the Survivors would improve the game health more than simply slowing down gens directly.
This way we can avoid effecting low ranks by making it so the mechanic is hard to use
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The problem with this is that it will make top killers like Nurse will become even more powerful.
We don't need that. It creates a runaway power problem. It's better to go the other way because then you have room to balance.
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That depends on your solution.
Specific solutions apply disproportionately to different Killers. If done correctly Nurse wouldn't be buffed as much as other Killer's.
Really if we buff Killer in a way that effects Killers that don't move with their power primarily and doesn't effect Killers that do as much then that would lessen the gap between all Killers in general, at that point we could even DECREASE gen speed.
Or we could just have changes to a lot of Killers individually rather than changing all Killers in the same way.
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My suggestion is to increase repair time but buff toolboxes so they're even faster than right now. Currently it's barely noticable. And i'd probably add a different item for sabotage. Otherwise toolboxes will be too popular.
This way, survivors have to choose:
Medkit to increase lifespan/heal others
Toolbox so gens don't take ages
Flashlight for saves/utility/blinds
Keys to escape/see killer (buff keys a little -at least in terms of non black lock stuff)
Maps (please buff maps! - should be more add ons to show everything to everyone - and more to leave a marker somewhere that everyone can see)
Saw - to sabotage hooks and cleanse totems quicker. I know cleanse isnt really something you do with a saw, but maybe another item could bridge the gap.
It just seems wrong that someone with a flashlight/medkit can repair almost as fast as someone with a toolbox. And sabo right now is so bad. Toolboxes do so much yet nothing particularly well.
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But the core issue is the gen speed. The strength of killers outside this is honestly just fine. They don't need to be stronger, gens just need a speed limit.
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If a game lasts 3 minutes, you're honestly not doing anything and that's a "YOU" problem, not a problem with the game. (it takes almost a 1 minute and a half to do a gen)
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Increasing gen time is a bad idea. The majority knows that.. Adding another objective in the game is very interesting. Reward survivors more for doing other objectives then just generators. For example : collect “X” amount of “X” to earn more points for a cosmetic. This is just a very basic idea..
“The Hallowed Blight” event we had is a very good example for this. It would make the game way more interesting & enjoyable for both sides.
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Increasing gen times isnt the way to go, holding m1 for 80 seconds right now is boring as all hell, and most people wouldnt be down for increasing that time
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I always love how the one or two videos that get put up a week that shows "gen rush" get published to the forums but not the 100s of videos a week that show killers 4King consistently.
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So your entire argument is based on ONE video of TrueTalent, playing against what he said in his own words is "uncommon" and rare to find a team who works through ruin that efficiently. And mind you, he STILL got a 3k out of the game.
So now you want survivor to be more boring and have us be on gens longer, and to make changes that would barely effect teams like THIS at all, but devastate the other 90% of survivors who are not near that level.
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So a video with the Survivors really "gen rushing" a DBD celebrity showcases how strong Survivors are when he still killed 3 of them and almost got the 4th? Also note the Killer is new and the player doesn't have tons of experience with him. Like I get that gens can go super fast, but how much are people going to ignore that Survivors can get wiped just as fast?
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He loses one game and then suddenly everything is unbalanced...
I’ve lost two games counting today and yesterday and win the other at least 15 games, I played mostly LF(one of my losses), spirit(all 3 or 4K games, played four as her), ghostface (only one match for a daily,4K) and Hag (played three games as her, lost one.).
Every other game I played was as LF, I played nine hours today (7 games as survivor) and three hours yesterday (one game as survivor).
Losing one match doesn’t make the game unbalanced, purple ranks on both sides btw.
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Sometimes you have good games, sometimes bad games.. tru3 was unlucky.. GGS only and move on to next game. Learn to accept you can’t have 4k’s every single game.
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If the time needed to do gens is given a flat increase, I, and many killer players like me will get 4k's every game, at red ranks.
I would probably go from my current 60/40 killer/survivor split to 95/5 or 100/0. Killers have all the tools they need to get at LEAST a 2k every game. The only balance change that needs to happen is a huge map overhaul (haddonfield, bigger maps shrunk), and, at the very least, a nurse nerf. Start there.
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I think gen repair times should be altered if devs aren't willing to add anything to the base objective.
Doing gens is not fun.
Fixing 2 gens and opening the gate is the most boring ######### ever but it still is doing an objective.
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So +20 s to the gen and +30s to each of the hook states.
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Tru3ta1ent is one of the best killers in the game, but he's wrong with that less gen speed thing. Another objective would be fine. Just something that let a match last longer that's not generators.
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It all depend on the first chase.
I must hook a survivor after 20-60 seconds or 3 gens are repaired. Players in my region are hardcore in the beginning.
But useless in long games.
But I must use 1 slow down perk every game, if I play a mid-low tier killer
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The thing is, tru3 isn't watched because he is one of the best killers. He is an above average red rank killer. He is watched because he is good and entertaining. But he's not one of the best.
Others have already said, he feels the gens went too fast, but he, as a killer he is still learning still got the 3k and almost 4k. I think that's more eye-opening.
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Learned very much from him. :) I'm just playing both sides and it's pretty boring to sit on gens.
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This is bad design, just making gens take longer isnt fun, its a basic solution that dosnt really improve the game. Have you noticed the direction BHVR are taking? Rather than just changing numbers, we are getting more perks and abilities to counter gens, and apply map pressure, It dosnt help low-tier killers right now, but with the pallet changes coming, and the currect direction with perk/killer/map design, they seem geared to making you a better player.
Don't like camping or tunneling? Why punish killers when you can give survivors perks like babysitter and camraderie to activley outplay those situation.
The way to deal with a genrush meta, is exactly what they have been doing, expanding the meta and giving killers more tools to apply pressure.
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@SpEz
Interesting, you forgot to mention that he even admitted that "not many teams are this quick", "it's a rarity".
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Terrible idea. Also fails to show that the game basically stalemates on 1 gen for the rest of the game. Increasing the time would just lead to constant killer victory.
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So give Killers tools that let them slow down gens if they are good.
Gen regression mechanics is an example of one that exists right now.
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2 people on a gen for only 70 seconds? I mean why the hell should survivors do gens together in this case? Doing them separately would always be the best option.
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Using that example is not a fair or true reflection of the average time teams of survivors take to complete the gens. I watched his whole VOD of that stream the other night and this was a one off, he even said himself that "it wasn't normal" ! Using this example seems to me like your trying to get people on side by using an extreme.
I play both sides and it's difficult to get the balance right as there are so many variables to take into account.
Individual Survivor skill, Map, Ruin, Add ons(tool box, brand new part etc)
When i play survivor they don't do gens and arn't good at chases but when i play killer they are all MLG toolbox loopers.
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Most killers get more kills than escapes. Don't believe me? Look at your own kill ratios for once with a killer your experienced at. Tru3 is just a bit cocky so when he has trouble he blames it on game balance.
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This is already true actually. This would just make it even worse, which is bad because it's easier to put pressure on Survivors that group up
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If you're at rank 1 you are at least the best hope out of all of us to be pitched with those swf kind.
I'm not a rank 1, I play average/weak killers really well but I only play casually and have a nice side but quick pressure an individual Survivor, rotate and repeat. Sometimes it's difficult to get a grip on the game when the 3 gens in a medium chase of the forth Survivor. This is why corrupt intervention exists to buy you more time in early game. It's luck to know whether to choose it though.
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I agree and try and state this often. We're more likely to see change if we starting talking about changes we can agree on, rather the bicker and troll. Some peoples children, eh?
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