Moris and Keys need to be changed.
When I play survivor on PS4 nearly every killer brings a mori. I've been stuck at rank 4 for 2 weeks now because of how frequently I get moried. I don't see keys as much as I do ebony moris, but they're still a pain and are terrible for the games health. Both need reworks.
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OmG cLaSsIc SuRvIvEr MaIn CoMpLaInInG wHeN tHeRe'S a ChAlLeNgE
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jUst dOnt gEt hOoKed
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No.
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Yes, just keep extremely unhealthy items in the game. Great way to keep the game alive.
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They’re both fine imo
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Ebony Mori's are not fine in the least, it's really hard not to be hooked at least once, unless you're Zubat, but. Listen, Ebony's are a pain to go against because they guarantee a de-pip/safety on a survivor basically, and when a killer looks like his going to get a 4k, closed hatch, and it doesn't matter a bit because the survivor opened the hatch.
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Personally I find them really unhealthy. They're so unfun for both sides. I hate going into nearly every game just to get tunneled, camped and moried. Same with killer, I hate playing well and very frequently having someone escape through the hatch because of a key. They're both too frequent for the power they give.
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I'm down for rebalancing both Keys and Moris. Giving either side the ability to end the game early just does not sit right with me.
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Keys are fine.
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Game times are short enough as is. I agree, being able to end the game so early very frequently doesn't sit right.
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What if ebony moris just became more rare?
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Some people have 100's of them stocked up already. There needs to be an actual change to them.
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I don't really have an issue with keys, never seen them work on me before. But moris are a bit of a problem, I am a firm believer of them only applying to people when they are DOH for extra BP and style points. But allow tombstone to remain, I think it's a cool playstyle.
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Less worried about keys than I am insta-heals.
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I don't think rarity increase is a good way to balance something OP. It just makes the imbalance happen less frequently instead of lessening its impact on a game.
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Mmm kay, what if survivors got points for getting killed? Or there were a series of skill checks to hit in order to escape?
As a killer main i get the issue at hand, bit moris are just so fun.
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mori's need a rework just like Decisive strike got a much deserved rework.
is it gonna happen? not anytime soon is my guess.
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Mories definitely need a nerf but I think keys are fine. Finding the hatch is very difficult and it takes a while to spawn. If the person with the key is the last one alive, then you're gonna have to defend both the hatch and the gate. If you can't then tough luck. Overall, they're just not that good since it's only useful towards the end of the game and you're most likely to die before you even have the chance to use it, unless you just don't care about the other survivors and get out through the hatch all by yourself.
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@TAG i think there is a place for "op" abilities in a game like this, just at a vast reduction of frequency. If it happened once every 50 games for a survivor, it would probably bring a sense of urgency rather then discontent. Perhaps there could be a limit on how many you could have in inventory as well too prevent stock piling.
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What rank are you playing at with all these mori's? I'm on ps4 too and I only see it if they are running devour or dying light
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Just my opinion, but I think you are understating the impact a key can have. Keys are fine IMO when they are used to open the Hatch after the Killer has closed it. They're also fine, oddly enough, for a four-man Hatch escape because that requires the gens to all be done, so all you're doing at that point is using an alternate means of escape when the primary means is accessible. The problem is with being able to open it prematurely and escape with 2-3 people. It is not as difficult as you make it out to be to find the Hatch before it's open, find someone, have them follow you to the Hatch, and then make the escape. Even if there are three people left and you only get two out, the Killer is now suddenly stuck with only two kills at best and at risk of only one with no warning. And the worst part is that there is little the Killer can do about it outside of being in the right place at the right time. They can't even counterplay it with something like Franklin's Demise because there is nothing stopping someone from just noting the Key's location and picking it up later.
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Ehhh, can't say I agree here. I think if you want to have something powerful and game-changing, it should be something that you have to work for or that comes with a trade-off. Not something just randomly handed to you every now and again.
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Only p3 killers generate them in the blood web?
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moris in general are fine, and so are keys.
the only thing i would nerf would be the dull key, since i find it to be too powerful for a very rare item.
if the dull key would only allow one person to escape through the hatch, it would be better.
and it would be neat if a person using a key could be grabbed out of the hatch, so its not a completely free escape, just like moris need you to be hooked once before getting killed.
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They're both fine.
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Let's add Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe to that list as well.
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Keys, moris and insta-heals should be adjusted. Don't change moris without changing insta-heals.
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As long as SWF groups can do 3 gens in 120-150 seconds mori is a necessary addon simply for balance issues.
10 seconds a chase, and 3 hooks on everyone is exactly 120 seconds. Add 36 seconds to walk to the hooks (3 seconds for each hook). That's 156 seconds if the killer makes absolutely no mistakes, and plays better than anyone has ever played DBD. Even then the killer has lost 3 gens, and is playing catch-up on the last hook to win the game. You need a freakin mori in this scenario unless you're a DBD god.
Add 20 seconds for decisive strike if you get stuned 4 times. Or a whopping 240 seconds if you respect everyones 60 second BS snowflake safe space. Not including flashlight stuns, broken loops, palletes, and rng all adding even more seconds. That's every survivor getting 60 free seconds to do a gen, or forcing the killer to lose 5 seconds. Either way the killer has a serious up hill battle.
It takes a m1 killer without movement powers 10 seconds or more to cross the map. That doesn't sound like much, but that 10 seconds is a devastating waste of time.
This is why spirit, nurse, and hilbilly are truly the only viable killers. You physically can't stop gens when it can potentially take too long (at no fault of the killer) to get all sacrifices. Even a potato survivor group can finish all gens in 250 seconds.
You cannot apply the pressure necessary when the killer can't physically get there fast enough. All middle range killers are the underdogs in red ranks, and until gens are slowed down, or survivors get a second objective moris should stay exactly the way they are.
That being said a mori addon on nurse, hilbilly, and spirit is unbalanced. But only on them.
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I disagree, I used the AHS but it didn't insta, becuz I didn't know how to use it, only today I learned how even though I have played for months
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I already thought of this scenario and I still think it's fine. Most of the time, it's better if you just got the last gen done instead of searching for the hatch, since it could take too long. If you already found it, you have to search for the others and have them follow you, but sometimes, they'll just run the other way without looking back, not knowing you got a key. The only time you should open the hatch with the others is when you get 3 genned, the hatch location is known, or it's just you and 1 other survivor left, but even then, you and the other person can get caught easily since both of you are running all over the place trying to find it.
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I disagree, for the most part. Obviously, if the fourth gen pops and you've got the last gen close to finished, you are better off just popping that sucker and going from there. But if you have the Key, the fourth gen clears, and you have no way of really knowing at that moment what the progress of the other gens are (assuming in both scenarios that the Hatch has spawned), your best bet is to just go for the alternate finish line right there. At that point, you are able to play much more stealthily because you aren't forcing yourself to sit on a Gen that the Killer always knows the location of, and once you do find the Hatch, all you really need to do is find one other person and make it back. And that's assuming you're playing solo. If you are in SWF comms with even one person, it's just a matter of one of the two people going "K, I found the Hatch; meet at X location." Meanwhile, if the Killer suspects that someone has the Key and is going for a Hatch play, not only do they need to be conscious of that, but they still need to be conscious of the Gens in the event that their hunch is wrong.
I don't really factor teammate incompetency into this. If they see that you have a key and that you are motioning for them to follow you, it's on them to put two and two together. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out why someone holding the key wants you to follow them if the Hatch has spawned.
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I'm talking about solo que here. Keys just aren't that good in solo que since you have no communication and not that much information on whats going on. Swf with voice chat gives you communication and information so that makes keys a bit op for them. Searching for the hatch when there's only 1 gen left is situational really. If a survivor is chasing the killer for a while, then it's better to just get the last gen done. If not, then looking for it is better, but you can still get punished if you take too long or you just can't find it. You need to decide which is the right play, depending on the situation.
I didn't really factor teammate incompetency into this. All I said is that sometimes, a survivor doesn't know you're near them with a key so they don't turn around and keep running the other direction, which I don't blame since like i mentioned earlier, lack of information and communication. Plus, they can be focused on whats in front of them for good reasons like going for the save, watching the killer's movements, etc. Seeing a survivor bringing a key in a match is very difficult since it's so small and blends into the environment. Sometimes, I just do something else while the game is about to start so I have no knowledge of a key being in the match.
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And I am largely talking about solo queue as well. For skilled Survivors, it is possible for them to check places where the Hatch is expected to spawn (since, like most other things, they spawn in specific locations and aren't just anywhere on the map at complete random). Just my opinion, but I think you overestimate how difficult finding the Hatch is. It's not as simple as finding the Hatch in one-two-three, but you can find it without too much fuss if you understand where to look.
Sure, a Survivor might be occupied with something else and not see you at first, but you should be able to get their attention pretty quickly if you start following them. You don't need to see them bring the Key into the Match at the start for you to be aware (perhaps they got lucky and found it in a Chest). You can just see them come up to you at some point holding the Key and then go from there. Someone being pre-occupied with a hook save is a different story, but that isn't really the sort of scenario I'm talking about.
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If the player base was bigger, I would suggest creating a separate mode for casual play.
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Okay, then I'm not sure why you brought up swf in the first place. Yes, it does spawn in specific locations but its still random on where it spawns so it still takes a while to search for it. Plus, knowing every single hatch spawn for every map is still difficult to memorize for players with hundreds or even thousands of hours into the game.
It takes a while for you to catch up to them depending on the situation. I mean, I know you can drop it in front of them to let them know you have it, but even then, you still need to hope that that survivor doesn't die early. Overall, they're just too situational and won't work most of the time, which is why I still don't think they're that good.
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No need to change them, just make them less common in the bloodwebs. I see way too many of those and not enough bloody party streamers.
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The Mori offerings need to be changed, except for Cypress. Things like Myer's Tombstone and Devour Hope are fine because you at least have to work for those Moris, and the game will have lasted a while by then. Same for Keys, except the Broken Key.
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I brought up SWF to signal that what I was describing was the worst-case scenario and that it can only get better from there. And solid Survivors have things like the totem spawns and Hatch spawns memorized pretty well.
Firstly, if it takes you that long to get a Survivor's attention and they're not, like, trying to make a Hook save, then either you or they are doing something wrong. I would probably chalk that up to incompetence. And idk why you need to hope they don't die early once you are leading them to the Hatch. It does not take that long to lead one person to the Hatch. I really don't think they're nearly as situational as you make it.
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How about instead of asking for gameplay changes just git gud or git lost, not every game has to be tailored to your perfection.
and anyone that uses ‘balance’ as a excuse are just kidding themselves, there will never be true ‘gameplay balance’ in a 4v1 match that only lasts 12 minutes with unique perks/items and unique killer powers with certain addons.
quit crying and adjust your gameplay style or realize that DBD isn’t aimed for your hello kitty adventure island free handouts.
mori’s and keys make the gameplay unique and interesting, and besides if a killer is blowing through a ebony within 7 minutes of the match they aren’t going to get many points and will only safety pip.
does anyone actually use their brain or just automatically cry OP when you happen to have a few games where this is being pulled off.
and yea don’t get effing hooked, it’s possible to mindgame through a whole match with SWF or solo, don’t cry for nerfs or ‘balance’ because you flat out got wrecked up the booty hole. I know it’s so hard looping a killer through 10 minutes /eye roll
the only thing I have a issue with keys is being able to reopen if the killer closes but even then i adjust my play style to either focus the key players or not. If you focus the key players they are no longer a issue until the next potato picks it up off the corpse.
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Yes.
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"How about instead of asking for gameplay changes just git gud or git lost, not every game has to be tailored to your perfection."
Nah, that's just ignoring the problem.
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My friend there is a rather easy way to deal with moris whenever the offering screen pops up and I see killer using secret offerings im checking my NAT type even if I find out it wasn't a mori I love wasting killers secrets offerings usually 95% of the time its mori they need to change how it works two hooks and then mori is fine one hook and then a tunneling killer is stupid so I have a perfect solution until its fixed.
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I agreed + insta heals.
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What?
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I'm not sure what you mean for the swf but whatever. I know I already said this earlier, but memorizing all of that is still pretty difficult. Plus, it still spawns at a random location therefore it still takes a while to find it, even if you know where all the locations are.
I wouldn't really call that incompetence since there can be many reasons why they're focused on what's ahead of them without knowing I'm behind them. Plus, If I had Bond or Empathy, there's no way they'd be able to see me from a distance.
I was talking about the early game or before the hatch spawns. You do this when you find the key from a chest or to remind them that you have it since it's easy to forget that they brought it in due to how small and dark it is. The main issue with keys is that it only works towards the end of the game where you're most likely to die before even using it. The aura addons are pretty garbage due to the channeling so I wouldn't count those. I don't know about you but I think they really need a buff for solo que players since they only work effectively with good information, which solo que players lack.
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I'd remove ebony mori. Or, if it was to be changed, maybe allow two kills. And the universal change would be after second hook.
As for keys, I'm a firm believer in that keys should only allow the holder to escape. After it's used, the hatch is closed again.
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"I'm not sure what you mean for the swf but whatever. I know I already said this earlier, but memorizing all of that is still pretty difficult. Plus, it still spawns at a random location therefore it still takes a while to find it, even if you know where all the locations are."
I mean that it is good as solo and even better as SWF. And I'm just gonna have to disagree with you on the Hatch taking a long time to find.
"I wouldn't really call that incompetence since there can be many reasons why they're focused on what's ahead of them without knowing I'm behind them. Plus, If I had Bond or Empathy, there's no way they'd be able to see me from a distance."
Unless you're trying to get their attention from waaaaaaaaaay out, I can't imagine a good reason why it would take more than a couple of seconds to get their attention.
"I was talking about the early game or before the hatch spawns."
Why? As long as the Hatch isn't in play yet, there's no reason to distract someone from doing gens so they can look at your key.
"The main issue with keys is that it only works towards the end of the game where you're most likely to die before even using it. The aura addons are pretty garbage due to the channeling so I wouldn't count those"
That's not an issue. That's just how the items works. If you think you're "most likely to die before using it," that says more about the player level than about the item itself.
"I don't know about you but I think they really need a buff for solo que players since they only work effectively with good information, which solo que players lack."
I don't disagree with that, but keys being problematic doesn't really factor into that discussion.
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I was specifically talking about solo que here so bringing up swf was just unnecessary. If you think it's easy to find the hatch, then that's great, but I'm talking about the majority of players here. There are 32 maps and all of them have spawns that are different from one another. I know some will spawn at the same location like Badham with the boiler rooms but you get the idea.
I'm talking about situations where it can be a pain to get a survivor to follow you. I mean, yeah, if you can get near a survivor and let them know you got a key, then it's fine, but that doesn't happen all the time since they don't know where you are most of the time so they end up running the other way. Plus, not knowing you have a key means they're not going to bother searching for you. I've already stated the reasons as to why keys are hard to identify so I'll move on.
I agree that you can just drop it in front of them while working on a gen together, but there are times where it's better to just work on a gen by yourself instead of searching for another survivor.
Even if you show them the key, they need to stay alive in the late game for them to escape with you, which is what makes it so situational. It isn't an issue, but it's part of the reason why I think it isn't as good as you think it is, which is why I brought it up in the first place. Dying before the hatch spawns isn't due to incompetence since it depends on the situation (mindgames, tunneling, camping, strategy, type of killer, perk build, etc).
In an earlier post, you said, "I'm down for rebalancing both Keys and Moris. "Giving either side the ability to end the game early just does not sit right with me." You then replied to my post by saying, "The problem is with being able to open it prematurely and escape with 2-3 people. It is not as difficult as you make it out to be to find the Hatch before it's open, find someone, have them follow you to the Hatch, and then make the escape." Bringing up the fact that keys aren't that good and needs a buff for solo que was the whole point of this argument but now I'm not sure what we're arguing about since you're just contradicting yourself.
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"I was specifically talking about solo que here so bringing up swf was just unnecessary. If you think it's easy to find the hatch, then that's great, but I'm talking about the majority of players here. There are 32 maps and all of them have spawns that are different from one another. I know some will spawn at the same location like Badham with the boiler rooms but you get the idea."
The better Survivors are able to find the Hatch pretty reliably. Not every time, but certainly more than you are making it out to be. Not even "best of the best." Just "better."
"I'm talking about situations where it can be a pain to get a survivor to follow you. I mean, yeah, if you can get near a survivor and let them know you got a key, then it's fine, but that doesn't happen all the time since they don't know where you are most of the time so they end up running the other way. Plus, not knowing you have a key means they're not going to bother searching for you. I've already stated the reasons as to why keys are hard to identify so I'll move on."
I'm not saying it happens all the time, but meeting up with a Survivor by chance is not some rare occurrence that you can't rely on if you are trying to escape with the Key. If you want to find someone, you will eventually do it.
"I agree that you can just drop it in front of them while working on a gen together, but there are times where it's better to just work on a gen by yourself instead of searching for another survivor."
Why wouldn't you do a gen instead of searching for someone if you have the means to? I'm talking about something you do in between doing your objectives, not something you go way out of your way for at the expense of your objective.
"Even if you show them the key, they need to stay alive in the late game for them to escape with you, which is what makes it so situational. It isn't an issue, but it's part of the reason why I think it isn't as good as you think it is, which is why I brought it up in the first place. Dying before the hatch spawns isn't due to incompetence since it depends on the situation (mindgames, tunneling, camping, strategy, type of killer, perk build, etc)."
Considering that someone needs to die before the Hatch spawns early, that's not exactly a bad thing for you. Dying before the Hatch spawns isn't inherently incompetence, but someone believing that the Key isn't worth using because they find that they are more often than not unable to stay alive long enough to use it is a pretty strong sign that they may not be that great of a Survivor.
"In an earlier post, you said, "I'm down for rebalancing both Keys and Moris. "Giving either side the ability to end the game early just does not sit right with me." You then replied to my post by saying, "The problem is with being able to open it prematurely and escape with 2-3 people. It is not as difficult as you make it out to be to find the Hatch before it's open, find someone, have them follow you to the Hatch, and then make the escape." Bringing up the fact that keys aren't that good and needs a buff for solo que was the whole point of this argument but now I'm not sure what we're arguing about since you're just contradicting yourself."
If you are suggesting we buff Keys for the sake of solo play, you are never going to get me to agree with you.
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