Killer Idea - The Wolf
THE WOLF
Terror Radius: 16 Meters
Movement Speed: 4.4 M/S
Height: Tall
Power: Call of the moon - Start the trial in your base form.
While in Base form (human form)
- Move at a reduced movement speed (4.4 M/S)
- You have a reduced Terror Radius (12 Meters)
- You lose your Red Stain
- You may desecrate Prayer sites
Injuring Survivors while in base form causes them to become Tainted until Hooked or Purified. While Tainted a viable dark mist surrounds them and their portrait.
While in Beast form
- Move at an increased movement speed (4.8 M/S)
- You have an increased terror radius (40 meters)
- Tainted Survivors in your terror radius become "tethered" to you
Taint
For every Tainted Survivor teathered to you, all Survivors inside your terror radius move 5% slower.
6 Prayer Statues spawn around the map, you do NOT see their aura's. While in base form you may interact with them to destroy them. This locks you out of wolf form for 45 seconds but renders the statue unusable for the rest of the trial.
Destroying a Prayer statue takes 2 seconds and is effected by Brutal Strength and Fire up.
A Tainted Survivor may interact with a Prayer Statue for 10 seconds to purify themselves of taint. If they are tethered with you when this happens you will be kicked out of wolf form instantly. This also reveals the aura of that Prayer Statue to the other Survivors.
Tainted Survivors do not see the Aura of the Prayer Statues.
Transforming
Holding M2 will cause you to slow down and transform and switch forms. This has no cooldown by default.
While transforming into Beast form you will howl, producing a map wide non-directional noise and disorienting any Survivors in your (new) terror radius (Makes their screen blurry like with Clown).
Transforming into Beast form takes 2.5 seconds
Transforming into Base form takes 1.5 seconds
While transforming you move at 3.68 M/S
Addons
Brown:
- Move faster while transforming (0.1 M/S)
- Decrease how long you are locked in base form after destroying a Prayer Statue (by 10 seconds)
- Decrease time to transform into Base form (by 0.5 seconds)
- Tainted Survivors glow white
Yellow:
- Move faster while transforming (0.2 M/S)
- Decrease how long you are locked in base form after destroying a Prayer Statue (by 15 seconds)
- 1 less Prayer Statue spawns
- Decrease time to transform into Beast form (by 0.3 seconds)
- For every Tethered Survivor decrease the Action speed of Survivors in your terror radius by 5%
Green:
- Decrease time to transform into Beast form (by 0.5 seconds)
- For every Tethered Survivor decrease the Action speed of Survivors in your terror radius by 8%
- 1 less Prayer Statue spawns. You Destroy Prayer Statues 50% faster
- Increase slow down from each tethered Survivor in your terror radius while in Beast form (by an additional 2%)
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 3 seconds)
Purple:
- Increase the time it takes Survivors to Purify themselves with a Prayer Statue (by 5 seconds)
- Increase your movement Speed while in Beast form (by 0.1 M/S)
- When a Survivor becomes tethered their Aura is revealed for 3 seconds
- While in base form tainted Survivors are oblivious
Red:
- Transforming does not cause you to howl
- You are not locked out of Beast form when breaking Prayer Statues
Perks
Mark of the Beast - Mark a Survivor when you hit them. The next time they attempt to heal, repair, open an exit gate, open a chest, break a totem or sabotage a hook they will scream revealing their location for 5 seconds. Can be applied to up to 2/3/4 Survivors at once.
Hex: Decay - After a Survivor has vaulted over a pallet 4/3/2 times it will instantly break. This effect is disabled once the Hex totem is cleansed.
Growing Rage - Any time you are stunned gain a token. After preforming a break action move 2.5% faster for 1 second per token. Lose 3/2/1 tokens after hooking a Survivor.
Comments
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Any feedback? Good? Bad?
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The killer seems good and exciting to play/play against. Brings new mechanics for killer and is interactive for survivors.
I just have a question:
When you are transformed back to human form do you receive the movement speed penalty? If so, it can be abused by survivor friends when you are mid-chase and then someone goes to a prayer statue and purifies himself, making you miss a hit make you not able to catch a survivor on a loop.
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Yes he has the 1.5 second animation with the slowdown.
Attempting to abuse it is the entire point of the downside. The aura when purifying exists so that solos can coordinate it as well.
Do remember thought that this requires really good timing regardless of comms due to needing to start it 10 seconds in advance against a Killer that is catching up to the Survivor in at least 1 meter per second.
As the Killer if you are worried about this you can always desecrate these beforehand, obviously that has it's own downsides and on both sides requires you to find the statues, but that's the strategy behind it.
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Maybe behaviour will someday make a wolf killer, it is wanted for a long time. Your idea doesn't leave the werewolf thematic so i guess it should be a pick.
Idk, I sometimes think if behaviour can take someone's idea for a killer and bring it to the game. It would be very nice tho.
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If I make enough Killer ideas I'm sure one of them will come into existence by shear statistics.
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But yeah a Werewolf would totally fit in this game.
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Oh yeah I need to do perks. I'll do it in a bit, bear with me.
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Ok perks are done.
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I think the last one needs an increase in numbers and a cap. But overall, the perks seem very useful, fun to interact with and balanced.
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If that gen is thirty minutes away, the Wolf will be there in ten.
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I would like to point out that it's the duration that is what is scaling and not the speed.
Meaning that no matter how many times the Killer is stunned this perk will still only grant a 2.5% speed increase, which IS a big deal when once it gets going but is still small enough that the amount of tokens it needs in order to be problematic is large enough that a cap just seems unnecessary.
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In any case if you are instead saying that it should ramp faster (and thus require a limit due to reaching problematic levels too fast) then sure I can do something for that.
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28.75 minutes actually but ok.
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Nice concept! I think a werewolf would fit very nicely in the game and great job on the mechanics and the perks, they seem like they would be very useful, great job!
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Thanks! Glad everyone seems to like it.
This and the Acolyte were my 2 original Killer idea's that I had to put the most thought into, so I'm glad I didn't screw it up (at least not blatantly)
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I love the thought process that went into this character concept i would be very happy to play against or to be the killer lol. It would also be cool to see the idea you had of the characters visual/design. You would happen to have some sketches of the killer do you? If not that's fine anyway LOVE this concept!!
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Unfortunately I don't. I've always been far more into the math behind these concepts rather than the presentation, that's why they never have a BIO, I simply am not interested in lore (though I understand that when done well it can add a lot).
But it's a Werewolf so it's not hard to picture. I guess it might be neat to get some idea on what the Human form would look like considering that just a normal Man would be kinda lame next to the existing Killers.
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I think maybe increasing the time to 3 seconds always and cap the stacks at 4 would be an interesting choice imo
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I'd say nerf movement speed in beast form to 4.6 if there's no timer for him changing back.
Also how would The Human form injure Survivors?
If you do that and answer that then it'll be a good killer.
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Ok so as for Human forms attacks, probably a Machete. Didn't really give it much thought but obviously just fists aren't going to cut it.
As for Beast form MS, I'm not ok with lowering it. Designing a class with a higher than average base MS was initial central idea behind the Killer in the first place, removing it means removing a core piece of the concept.
That being said it wouldn't be too hard to add more downsides to the form to counterbalance this speed. There is already the Purification mechanic but obviously you could just go into beast mode and completely ignore the Taint mechanics entirely.
Some options for nerfs are:
- Slower attack cooldowns
- No vaulting
- Slower vaulting
- Slower break speeds (Don't like this one for thematic reasons)
- Hardcounter for Survivors (ex: Ghostface's reveal mechanics)
Of these I personally find No vaulting as a Wolf to be the best one, because it has an obvious workaround as the Killer (transforming back) but still comes at a cost supported by the other mechanics (transforming slowdown, moreso when turning into a beast).
A draft of this Killer actually had that downside, but was scrapped because I figured that while a 5% MS is a big deal, unless he also uses the 110% form in chases he's basically a 120% with no power whatsoever which isn't problematic. And chasing in 110% successfully is hard enough to justify the reward for doing so, even if it is easier here compared to with other 110's in one way or another.
Thus if Wolf form is nerfed then Base form needs to be buffed in order to compensate.
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Just depends... Survivors do indeed run slower than the base killer. So it could be looked as too OP. So maybe in beast form give him a bloodlust type of effect where he walks faster in the beginning but in the end it reverts back to base speed?
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Base speed IS 4.8 for beast form.
Also that doesn't even make a whole lot of sense. It would just needlessly promote switching back and forth between forms and requires a lot of otherwise unnecessary nerfs in order to make it work without loopholes.
Again wanting nerfs to counterbalance the speed is fine but in this specific instance I'm going to insist that whatever it is be a drawback rather than a limitation.
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I feel like Hex: Decay should get another benefit, such as when a survivor vaults its blocked off
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Why even play in your base form? From what you said a tainted survivor needs to purify so why taint them in the first place. You spawn in, go wolf boi, now you are 120% and there is no way for survivors to do ######### to you because you are 20% faster. In a different perspective, you are always in bloodlust 1. If you can switch between modes with no time limit i feel you need more ways of being kicked out of the mode. Getting stunned by pallets could be a good way to boop you out. Maybe breaking pallets too but that just seems overkill. I agree with an earlier idea of slower vault speeds but i dont think disabling his vault is where its at. If you cant vault while in beast mode then now you are forced to play shacks with bloodlust.
But back to my main point. Base form is actualy useless because it gives survivors the ability to kick you out of your power for what? 3 maybe 4 seconds. Thats really not worth it, maybe if there were a cooldown placed after being forced out than it'll be more worth it. Cool concept but there are a ton of unnecessary things. The howl for transforming sounds cool but it can also be used to spam it so it can be annoying. Same for that clown effect you wanna add onto survivors.
If you say being tethered is the benefit to being tainted, even that isnt worth it. It'll just make chases even more brain dead. You move at 120 while the poor Dwight you are chasing is now moving at 95 because you managed a cheap early hit with your 12 meter tr, which was reduced to 4 meters due to m&a. At that point it's bloodlust 2. His chases are very boring and unfun. Might as well face old legion with franks and deep wounds study.
Also, the way you have it worded means you can only cleanse while tainted but being tainted and tethered are two different things. So you cant even cleanse inside his tr, which can be increased by 25% with distressing and by another 8 while in chase with m&a. You effectively have a dumber tr than impossible skill check doc.
Being tainted is a death sentence but at the same its stupidly easy to get tainted again after the first cleanse.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful but i wanted to give you my critical feed back on your killer idea. I do hope you'll respond because I'm open to a discussion and helping to flesh out this idea
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Tethered is not mutually exclusive with tainted, one is a subcategory of the other. I only even defined the term so that I didn't have to say "Tainted Survivor(s) in your terror radius" every time I wanted to reference it.
Why would giving a cooldown after a Survivor forces you out of wolf form make base form better? Wouldn't that be a nerf to base form since it makes tainting Survivors less beneficial?
In any case it would actually be entirely possible to properly test how impactful being a 120% Killer would be. Simply play as any 115% Killer in KYF, run distressing and PWYF and then get a single stack. Then chase a different non-obsession Survivor until you get a hit.
Compare this to without the PWYF stack for a point of comparison.
I obviously will expect the 120% Killer to do better than the 115%, but it's hard to say for sure by how much.
Windows and Pallets would still buy just as much of a head start in terms of distance so a 120% Killer would still need to play the normal Pallet game, but they would obviously be at least a bit better at getting through many loops faster.
That was the reasoning behind not giving Beast form an explicit downside other than the TR increase. Since a 120% Killer with no power while good is not broken, and as you yourself pointed out the power he does have isn't super strong, which is deliberate because you can't have a 120% Killer with a super strong power.
In any case I really do want to avoid FORCING you to stay out of Beast mode when possible. The teathered cleansing and forcing you out that way doesn't put any cooldown on you so it's not a problem, and destroying Prayer Statues is something optional that you actively chose to do knowing the cost.
But as I said earlier having a drawback to Beast form is fine. If we are agreeing that a slower vault is a decent solution then it should just come down to the numbers.
To be more specific I'd slow it down to 2.1 seconds to vault. For reference all Killers besides Myers vault in 1.7 seconds right now.
If that is still insufficient I don't want to continue to decrease vault speed further so I'd instead increase pallet stun duration, similar to the Wraith, specifically I'd do 3 seconds.
This has obvious counter play but could be enough to keep things interesting.
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Feels like the first perk should have hex status, not the second perk. Unless the first perk unmarks the survivor when it activates. From the wording, I can't tell.
The second perk doesn't seem strong enough to be a hex, and the concept doesn't feel like a hex to me either. If you get a survivor to vault a pallet multiple times, you probably either already have them trapped in a loop where you can hit them or you have looped around a safe pallet long enough to where breaking it normally would have been faster.
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For the first perk you do have to re-mark Survivors after it procs.
It's the NEXT time they do an action, not EACH time they do an action.
And I'd like to point out that the Hex perk effectively makes all Pallets besides a select few like the God pallet unsafe, and trivializes mind-gamable Pallets.
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Seeing a lot of werewolf Killers lately. I guess it's fitting considering the time of year.
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Can you explain what is the Taint in the Myth of Werewolves?
2 of the perks are lackluster compared to the existing perks
Hex:Decay:Simply Breaking the pallets is better or use Brutal Strength for better performance, its already bad, survivor breaking the hex totem will make it useless knowing that its already bad they might not even break it.(Seriously why 1 hex totem only?)
Growing Rage:its mobility increase is not good,you even lose a token if you hook and overall Play with Your Food is lot better like heaven and earth
Mark of the beast:so this mark is Permanent this will put a lot of pressure on the survivors with the werewolf's 120 mobility because its permanent after the hit and it also reveals their location just by doing almost anything. (this will greatly benefit nurse,spirit and especially hillbilly to the point that everyone will quit being a survivor)
Post edited by DeathEscape on1 -
Read when this post was made.
This was made long before you made your Killer idea.
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And as for your question about Taint.
lycanthropy is often seen as a sickness which the wolf spreads, and so being near the wolf is itself harmful.
Now for balance reasons and to give the base form a function it's the base form that applies the status itself. But that's what gave me the idea and is part of why it's the wolf form that actually applies the debuffs associated with it.
There was also a draft where the wolf would be able to track tainted Survivors in wolf form. But I was having trouble balancing it so I went with this instead.
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Post edited by DeathEscape on0
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The edit I made yesterday was to rework an addon that I noticed didn't do anything.
Specifically one of the ultra rares said that hooking a Survivor wouldn't remove taint. However I had previously removed that as a mechanic in the first place so the addon did nothing. So I reworked it to remove the howl instead
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Read the other comments.
Note how they reference the howl, movement speed, perks ect and were all made before you made your post.
That should serve as proof I didn't copy.
For all I know you copied me. You don't see me accusing YOU of plajorizm now do you?
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Doesn't change a thing its still bad Growing rage
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This one references the pallet breaking perk.
Movement speed
Howl and a bunch of other stuff.
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Lycanthropy- the supernatural transformation of a person into a wolf, as recounted in folk tales and myth lycanthropy is a supernatural condition in which men actually assume the physical form of werewolves
It is not a sickness that makes humans slower or weaker its the opposite
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That's the definition. But it's often portrayed as a sickness with the transformation being a symptom for those that Survive.
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Where did you even read that?
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Then leaving it unattended will kill the survivors or turn them to a ally werewolf (50/50) and not slow them
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It's a thing in TV and some games.
Not everything portrays them like that of course, but trust me it's a thing.
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Yes but balance. I'm taking liberties.
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If you are getting ideas on movies and other games, then it will cause BHVR lots of Money because of licensing because if not it will be illegal
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It's lose enough that it shouldn't be an issue. No one has the rights to Werewolves or the idea of it being a sickness, and since I'm not drawing from a specific portrayal, just loosely drawing from a common type of portrayal, that's not an issue either
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I think this will be unbalance as you can stealth walk around on human form hit them then go on full wolf form mowing everyone with the 120% mobility, having 120 mobility and with that 5% slow would be too much.
Mark of the beast- this is too much over the top of revealing effect because it had no expiration after you hit them and applying the effect
I think it will be good if you work more on this idea
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If they didn't need a license for the Hillbilly then I can't see them needing a license for this either.
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Of course! Balance takes time and I'd love to hear suggestions.
Base form is a bit tricky.
On one hand he isn't supposed to be a stealth Killer, hence his TR being such that M&A doesn't quite reduce it to 0. But on the other hand you need to be able to get hits as him. Hence having a significantly reduced TR at all.
I could just make base form 115%, but then it would be too easy and wouldn't justify the slow.
In certain I can make it work, but I need to get the Numbers right.
Also I've been brainstorming a downside to the wolf form. Note that I don't want an additional limitation, just a downside.
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It will cost money if you get the looks of the movie's werewolf and put it in dbd (for example twilight) so i stick with the mythological werewolf
I think we should just let clown have the slow effect on power we should just give werewolf a different effect
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I suggest changing the slow effect
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We should focus on the highlights of werewolf which is speed 120(✓), sensitive senses, smell,hearing,etc and causes fear
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