Mettle of Man Buff Suggestion
M.o.M. recently got a well deserved nerf. It used to be impenetrable to M1 killers, and just plain annoying to killers overall.
But now it's on a similar level to Autodidact. where in VERY niche situations, in builds COMPLETELY based around the perk, it can have some use. I think that this could be done just a little bit better.
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Mettle of Man
Evil has a way of always finding you.
After unhooking a survivor, taking a protection hit for the unhooked survivor 5/10/15 seconds after the unhook will activate Mettle of Man.
Once Mettle of Man is activated, a 60 second timer will start, and your aura will be briefly highlighted to the Killer. While the timer is active, you will be put into the Broken state.
Once the timer ends, the next hit that would put you into the dying state will be ignored.
If you are downed before the timer ends, Mettle of Man will deactivate.
Mettle of Man will only allow you to ignore one hit per match.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
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This allows for a lot of counter-play on both sides. In this situation, the killer has to make a choice. Either:
a.) Hit the savior, and take a chance at activating Mettle of Man.
b.) Hit the saved survivor, and take a chance at activating Borrowed Time.
If they decide to hit the savior, they will be notified (hence the brief aura highlight), and will be encouraged to chase the savior further. If they fail to end the chase in 60 seconds, then they will be punished. If the savior can't be chased, then this perk is useless.
This acts as an anti-tunneling tool off of the hook, but it's in a really healthy way. It involves a lot of choices, a lot of strategy, and a lot of chases. This creates a little game within the game. How fast can you catch the savior?
It's a high risk, high reward scenario, it synergizes well with some perks (Borrowed Time comes to mind), but also doesn't synergize with others (Adrenaline on the saved survivor also comes to mind.). It counters one-shot downs (notice how you don't need to be in the injured state to ignore the hit), and has some major benefits, but it requires you to not get hit for 60 seconds (Not even Adrenaline can save you in this chase, as you are in the Broken state! Even more risk.). This is a perk that still needs to be set up, but can lead to some amazing benefits. It's not a perk that leads to a free escape, it's a perk that can lead to some really interesting moments on both the survivor and killer side.
I could really talk about this perk all day because I find it really interesting, and a really healthy buff to M.o.M. with lots of counterplay and strategy. But I'll leave that to you.
Also, a quick shoutout to @NMCKE, who (by pure coincidence) posted an idea to buff this perk that's actually really similar to mine just a couple hours ago. I only noticed it while I was writing down my ideas, so I couldn't pull much inspiration myself, but it's still another really cool idea regardless. A link to that post can be found [here].
Let's get this perk changed!
EDIT 1 (9/28/19): A quick thank you to everyone for the discussions that have arisen from this post. I made this post less to encourage THIS change to be implemented (as much as I wish it would), but more to start a discussion about MoM as a whole. Please remember to keep things civilized, and I'll keep responding to your comments as time goes on!
Comments
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Nope
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It still sounds like a pain to deal with especially during egc
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So if someone has Mettle of Man and Borrowed Time, rescues a Survivor during the Endgame Collapse, there is absolutely nothing the Killer could do to stop either of them leaving the trial, since they are both protected by an extra hit. Sounds totally fair and reasonable, since we all know that Killers facing situations in which they are completely stripped of any power is fine.
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So if killer plays bubba and stands in front of a hook survivor has no chances to survive. Same thing. And in lower ranks it doesnt even have to be bubba, it can be any killer. From what i understand it requires killer to stay near the hook, so after unhook happens the unhooker can take the hit.
But i do agree that this idea is a little bit off. You can gain way too much for way too little, looping killer for 60s is way too easy with good setup like shack + jungle gym.
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Just reduce tokens to activate to 2. pretty much it.
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The problem with that analogy is that there is only one Bubba and far off from every trial. If Survivors play smart there, that one Survivor will be all he'll catch.
With MoM/BT on the other hand, there is potential that all four Survivors can run them and if they become meta, they'll be run every trial. Additionally, they have the potential to get everyone out and the Killer would be completely powerless to do anything against it.
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It was a bad start when you talked down on Autodidact. Its not perfect, but nowhere near trash.
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I think you're slightly misunderstanding what OP's suggestion was.
After unhooking, you take a hit and a 60 second timer begins. If the timer runs out before you get downed, THEN you get to tank an extra hit. This honestly seems entirely avoidable, especially during EGC where it's not likely that a survivor will run you for a whole minute.
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Yes
Only if they have it active from beforehand. And even then, it's far from game changing. It would be a better idea to just not let them get the extra hit in the first place.
Similar story. This can ONLY happen if a killer got ran around for 60 seconds earlier in the game, and then never hit that survivor again throughout the entire game. If this happens, the killer deserves to be punished.
1.) This would not work against one shots off of hook, as you would technically be downed before the timer ends. So killers like Bubba or Billy could still camp hooks and ignore Mettle of Man.
2.) There's also the flip side of the second point. Yes, you could get a phenomenal setup where it's very easy to get ran around for 60 seconds. You could also be set in the middle of a dead zone. It really depends. Again, high risk, but high reward.
I thought about this idea as well. And while I do think that's a good basic fix, it still doesn't solve many of the problems that the perk has (Needs entire builds/playstyles based around the perk to get any utility, for example.). If this idea doesn't get implemented, this is one that I would like to see put in instead. But I still think that mine is more interesting.
It's not trash, you're right. With the right circumstances, it can be a phenomenal tool. But getting those right circumstances to fall into place is a hassle, and in order to set them up, you need to sacrifice doing other important things (Objective). Mettle of Man is the same way in its current state.
^What this guy said.
I'll keep responding to comments as they come along, but I do want to highlight that this change does NOT guarantee a free save in EGC. In fact, its utility is probably the lowest in the endgame, when most safe pallets are gone and you are more likely to be downed sooner. Now, if the savior has Mettle of Man ready to tank a hit, that might be a different story. But in order for that to happen, they must have taken a protection hit earlier in the game, get chased for 60 seconds, and then not get hit for the rest of the game. This is a pretty hefty gamble, and it's what I love about this change. It's high-risk, high-reward in a really healthy way. No tricks, no crutches. It requires skill to get this perk to work out, but when it does, you will have as much potential as you could ask for on your shoulders.
I think a lot of misconceptions are circling around this change would work, but I'm always here to answer any questions you all may have. Feel free to leave a comment!
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You couldnt be more wrong about Autodidact. You are right that with the current version of MoM you lose time. But Autodidact focuses on healing and gaining health states, not losing them. Healing others is not wasting time at all. You only lose progress for the first two tokens, and the second one is negligible. Healing oneself with SC I with Sloppy Butcher, thats wasting time.
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I'm aware that you only lose time with the first two tokens, but it's getting the tokens in the first place that's the issue. Skill checks just don't appear often enough to consistently get enough tokens for this perk to take effect. If you only heal one person, you are most likely only going to get one or two tokens. If you heal two, probably two or three. Three, three or four, etc.. But the more people you're healing, the more you're forcing yourself into an extremely altruistic playstyle. In the time that you're rolling the dice to try to heal people slightly faster than usual, you could be doing gens. In trying to get stacks, you're just slowing yourself down. Even the result itself isn't that impressive in my opinion. It's all a lot of luck for not a lot of benefit.
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. Like, this wouldn't be useful for bad Survivors, but for good Survivors, it seems like it'd be suuuper strong. Like, against most loopable Killers, this seems like not a terribly difficult task to earn an extra Health state. I worry this would further widen the gap between the top Killers like Nurse/Spirit and the rest of the pack, which is not what we need IMO.
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no
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A 60 second chase is a REALLY long time to get one hit. Think of Decisive Strike and how long that takes to expire. Now think of that, but in the killer's favor. And if it does prove to not be enough, it could be adjusted to something like 70 or 80 seconds. 60 is just a benchmark.
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I mean, you have to consider scenarios where they are able to keep the chase going just long enough that it becomes more efficient to give up on the chase and defend gens (which can end up being less than 60 seconds). Against some of the less powerful Killers, this can reasonably happen. At that point, the Survivor has gained their hit protection without having to commit to a minute long chase.
And even if you raise the timer, you just risk making the perk not worth the effort to use. I could be mistaken, but I think this is the sort of idea where there isn't really a comfortable middle ground between "problematic" and "useless."
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Biggest problem with the current MoM is that you don't get stacks for protection hits. it's simple coding, when you get a protection event, you should get credit on MoM activation. Really this is very simple, the fact that devs STILL haven't fixed it to actually work - (even the way the NERF was supposed to work) is telling that they just don't care about survivors who want to try and use MoM.
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Killers need to chase someone. If they've already found a survivor in a bad situation that they can chase, they should capitalize on that. It all depends on where the savior ends up.
This perk puts the savior in a place where they really SHOULDN'T make it through 60 seconds (because they're already injured), but if they do, they should be rewarded.
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Why shouldn't they make it through 60 seconds, though? Are you suggesting a good Survivor is not capable of running a less powerful Killer around for that long?
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They are capable, you are absolutely right. But they have to work for it. It won't come naturally. They need both the resources and the skill to make it through 60 seconds of chase. There are a lot of situations where this is possible, and there are a lot of situations where it just... isn't.
If this were a full chase of 60 seconds, then yes, it would just be a free extra hit to the survivor. But 60 seconds to get a single hit seems very plausible, even with a weaker killer like Wraith or LF. Plausible, but not easy. That's the whole purpose of the perk, to encourage a high risk chase on both sides. One mistake on either side could have major consequences.
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MoM is fine the way it is.
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It doesn’t even work anymore. I’ve even gotten points for protection hits but not the stacks for MoM. It’s not fine it’s broke and doesn’t work
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I think you undermine your argument by saying that it's not easy for a weaker killer. The whole problem with weaker killers is that it's not easy to land that hit if the Survivors can take advantage of the environment properly (which is easier on some maps than others). If that wasn't as much of an issue, they wouldn't be called weaker Killers. With your perk idea, you are massively increasing the penalty to those Killers for struggling to do the thing that they naturally struggle with.
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perk are supposed to have niche use, no perk should be a jack of all trades or too strong because that how we get stall meta and stall meta make the game ######### boring.
Just fix MoM so that protective hit give token reliably.
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Should not have been in game to begin with. Was bad design from start. People just need to forget about it and move on, let it pass on into thewith the other useless perks
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No it’s not fine and shouldn’t be forgotten since many of us spent our hard earned money on a DLC where one of Ash’s perks doesn’t work anymore and 2 are VERY situational
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If you bought ash because you and everyone else realized how hilariously overpowered MOM was before it came out, that's on you. P2W garbage has no place here and it was clear as day it was going to be nerfed, buyer beware.
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Hey he is upset, he lost his crutch and is finding it hard to walk without it. lol.
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No I lost my money. Killers got ruin as crutch lmao
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No you did not lose your money you spent it on a perk that was overpowered and it got rebalanced. You still have the perk it is just not what you want. Too bad. Games change, don't like it? Move to a new one. Simple really, but it looks like you were just seeking attention.
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Did you not comprehend anything I said? I’d be fine with the rework if the perk actually worked. It doesn’t work. No one can use it anymore cause it doesn’t register the stacks with protection hits or even register protection hits in general
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Look man now you just sound triggered and looking for attention. Good luck with your poor investment.
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Funny joke
I have gotten it to activate once
How?
I farmed the actual hell out of survivors and took a hit directly after
This perk is not okay
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Then don't use it and move on. Real simple fella.
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Its better to make a perk actually usable than unusable
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You are right but it still don't use it and move on.
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I’ll use what I paid money for buddy. Stop trying to control other humans cause you didn’t like a second BT and got easily demolished a perk that was easily counter-able
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Dude, you made a post to get attention and you got it. Then you got triggered when people didn't agree with you. Act like you're old enough to play the game and stop getting so triggered.
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Please don't start flame wars. @Wuhelm @KidDope25.
The perk should be buffed. Better perks on both sides will lead to a more diverse and healthier meta, which leads to an even more diverse and healthier game as a whole. Regardless of spending money or DLC, all perks have a right to be usable.
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Perk should just be removed and the probelm solves itself.
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No it doesn't as that means we have a survivor with 2 perks
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woah. Easily counterable is quite the statement. Perk was BROKEN. But yes I agree they should change it bc it is useless. I have a rework concept in mind.
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I always countered MoM when I played killer. I was able to always get rid of them way before end game. If you guys can’t it’s cause you can’t catch survivors
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And make the protection events actually register instead of it be spotty, but that is just the whole game right now, all of it is jank.
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Just make the perk deactivate when the last generator is completed, and the same thing for DS because once the generators are done, at that point, you need to start getting sacrifices. :)
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I doubt that that would actually be implemented.
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Duplicate, ignore!
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That doesn't help anyone. Don't get rid of the problem, fix it. Do something interesting, fun! Even right now, MoM being a bad perk is more useful than it not being a perk at all. The more perks in the game, the more possible diverse builds. If we make those perks good, people will be encouraged to USE those possible diverse builds. If we remove every bad perk instead of fixing it, we'll be forced into a tiny, tiny meta. That gets really boring really fast.
Well, that also depends on the killer. Killers like Billy, Huntress, etc. didn't have to deal with MoM as much because they never really use their M1. But against killers that DO depend on their M1, this perk was destructive. Not to mention that this applied to the worse killers as well, Wraith, Clown, etc.. Good survivors can do a lot with an extra hit. That's why they can't just get it for free, it needs to be earned.
I don't see a need to deactivate it once the end game starts. If you can save it until the very end, you deserve to get some use out of it. Unless this is referring to OG MoM, and not the change I suggested, in which case I agree with this idea as well.
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One sided.
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Of course. As always, the first comment of a thread is negative/trollish
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Not to mention that he doesn't support his idea with anything
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