Who decided what actions are "toxic"?
So a little background. DBD is actually the first online vs game I've ever gotten into. I've mainly avoided it because of the stories I've heard about how terrible people are. Since voice chat isn't a default feature of the game I thought it would be better. Sure people can say nasty stuff in end game chat but that is easily remedied by leaving the lobby.
To my surprise, I learned that specific actions in the game are considered toxic such as teabagging, pointing, and killer hitting survivors on hook. After learning this I started getting offended by these things. Then I realized, this is stupid. I'm only being triggered because I read somewhere that I'm SUPPOSED to be triggered by this.
So my question is. . . why do people let a silly action in a game get to them so much. Is there a rich history of this in online gaming? I'm assuming yes. I get it that the anonymity of the internet brings out the worst in humanity but it also seems like there is some sort of mob mentality going on and people have been convinced they must be offended by fairly innocuous acts in a video game.
Comments
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And there you have reached the core issue of online gaming.
People letting stupid stuff get to their emotions and dictate their actions. No one but you decides how to play and what is or is not "toxic".
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There are just a lot of spineless snowflakes out there who get offended at everything.
Teabagging is something we've been doing since the 90's. Anyone getting offended by it has an extreme level of immaturity that doesn't belong online. Or in any kind of social environment for that matter.
Good that you're mature enough to realize that all this toxicity talk is just that... talk.
People play in silly and unsportsmanlike ways all the time. Online is all about it, because of the anonymity, this is normal in online gaming. But let's not pretend it doesn't happen offline either. You see all sorts of "toxic" displays in every sport.
Anderson Silva doing the Muhammad Ali dance in the middle of a fight is the same kind of thing, as are all the kinds of jeers you hear in the locker rooms of college football.
This is a very human thing to do and isnt' something unique to online gaming. Mature people learn to shrug it off... the less mature do it themselves to get a rise out of even more immature people.
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Ignore it. There just crybaby's getting all emotional over nothing.
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Do what I do. If they teabag while running from you, down them and also teabag. Then laugh your ass out when they dc.
It's easier if you happen to be playing ghostface
Seriously...happened yesterday, I had to pause a bit to laugh XD
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Just play how you want and follow the official game rules. 😊
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The hypocrisy of claiming people who engage in toxic behaviour are more mature than those who are irritated by it is laughable.
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BM is just that. BM.
It was here before us and will still be here after us. Best to pay it no mind.
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provoking = toxic ... thats just common sense.
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Who made that claim? None of the posts seem to imply that to me.
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It's just part of the culture of online gaming, always has been. T-bagging has been around for decades, you used to do it on a person's corpse right after killing them.
The express purpose is to mock the other player, it has no other function. Same with the point-spamming and presumably hook-smacking too.
It's no different than trash talk in any other sport except online gaming tends to feature a lot of very touchy people who thrive on the misery of their opponents as much as their own success. I'll admit to getting a laugh whenever a survivor DCs, knowing I made them rage quit, even if that's not necessarily my goal and I won't go out of my way to do it.
For me, it depends on my mood. If I'm having a good day and games are going well, a survivor trying to rile me up won't really get under my skin. If I'm having a bad day, or if I've been getting rolled by SWF groups for multiple successive games... t-bagging me will get you killed. Most days fall somewhere in between and I'm not terribly bothered by it unless it's clear that someone's invested a lot of their identity into being a prick.
If someone with a name like NoobStomper or Juke Nukem comes at me with the t-bagging and flashlight clicking, I won't throw the whole match chasing them, but I will keep an eye out for them and take special pleasure in teaching them a lesson.
It's all a matter of give and take, imho. If your goal is to provoke people, you can't cry when they get mad. If you hate bad manners in others, display good manners yourself.
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Its done to wind up the other side to distract them or say I'm better than you come at me.
It's not toxic at all really it's just a player being cocky or having fun and in the killers case "take that! I got you" Some just take these things way to seriously.
Toxicity only happens when the game is over in the end chat and in private messages/profile comments imo. That is where people can go way over the top and take it to a new level but if they do go too far always report them (profile and private messages to the platform not bhvr) as hopefully they will learn with a ban there is no place in the game to act like that.
In the end play as you wish too.
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Mochan last sentence
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I don't know. . . I took the words "even more" to mean "additional."
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While i'm not going to call the police on anyone for playing the way they want, I will definitely state that if you enjoy making someone else feel like ######### because it's fun then you are a pretty bad person. Behaviour like that comes from the early years and if someone likes bullying like that then they haven't changed much since they were a child which is pathetic.
On the topic of people being sensitive, some people can't help it. There have been times where my emotional and mental state has been turned upside down due to single comments, so much so that multiple times I've just lay on the floor at night for hours on end wishing it would end - this is more IRL issues but I have felt similar ways due to gaming, which goes onto my next point...
If you're playing against younger individuals and play the way which is considered toxic and even saying the standard "gg ez" this can impact them greatly. I'm not going to act like a child psychology expert, but because I was familiarized with online bullying at a young age I know how to spot it easier which makes it impact me more.
I'm not telling anyone how to play, I'm just trying to act as an important notice to those who play in that toxic way, that sometimes actions have consequences, and I'm sure there's been 100s of incidents where non-mentally stable individuals have hurt themselves physically due to consistent things in video games. Saying man up isn't good enough.
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@MineAntoiya I think you make some great points and they tie into the point I was making. I agree that there are behaviors that are clear bullying and that is just cruel and wrong. But I do think that the word toxic in the context of this game and bullying are not interchangeable but they are often incorrectly used interchangeably. Because of this I think some of the more innocent things that have been labeled as toxic has led to people feeling bullied when exposed to them when they are fairly insignificant. Bullying is terrible and should be condemned for sure! I do also respect the fact that if someone has been bullied in the past that some of the more innocent things can be perceived more harsh.
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I consider my annoyance by those actions to be more mature than the person doing it. You have to be special kind of damaged to get your kicks out of annoying people online.
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The word toxic has been used to describe any negative emotions recently. Not only in gaming, but also in different industries.
For us, toxic behavior is basically anything covered in our game rules, like @Boss mentioned, playing the game within the rules: not toxic. Obviously, some people like to bend the rules and play in the grey zone. That's why our rules are open enough to seek the intent behind the actions. Are we saying being teabagged for 10 min isn't annoying? Nope. We are just saying it is not considered toxic per say.
List of gameplay elements that we do not consider toxic behavior by themselves.
- Tunneling
- Camping
- Using a perk / certain perks
- Playing with your friends
- Emote spamming
- Teabagging
- There is more but I need to get to the point
The way Community Members communicate their frustrations is really how we can change things in the long run.
An example:
Player 1
I hate playing against NOED, I think it's too strong and I get frustrated when I lose because of it. What can I do to prevent it?
This way of communicating invites discussion but still carries the message that the member doesn't like the perk NOED (feedback noted). They have a problem, are sharing their opinion and are seeking a solution.This approach will provide a bigger sense of Community and support and will also validate the member in their opinion (because let's be real, other people don't like NOED as well).
Player 2
NOED is toxic! I hate it and the devs are **** for having it in the game.
This second version accuses other people of playing NOED and creating NOED but doesn't invite to discuss the actual problem. It only throws frustrations at others without adding any constructive thing to the debate. The consequence in the community is that people are feeling attacked by such statement, they will be in defensive mode right away. Either because they are playing the perk or because they don't agree it will result in a defensive argumentation that will bring nothing to the debate.
You can swap NOED for any annoyance players have in the game with this example. The result will always be the same.
Player 1 has more chances to:
- Find other players that agree with them - Get validation
- Find tips to lower the impact of the frustration in the long term - Get a solution
- Get their feedback heard and their message carried to the devs - Be heard
Be Player 1 and contribute to the debate in a good way. 😎
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It amazes me that the internet - a tool of limitless knowledge and communication - makes people think “yup, time to be an ######### cowering in anonymity” instead of being decent human beings. You’re not cool for making people feel like crap.
Also so many of these comments are so Edgy, grow up. You learn about empathy in kindergarten - shame it seems like some of you never matured passed that level.
Post edited by ceridwen309 on5 -
I still find it hard to believe people out there get triggered by survivors "pointing". Pointing ffs.
"Devs, he pointed at me". Catch yourselfs on.
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Yeah, I always thought that survivors were pointing to signal to nearby survivors "Hey, the killer is RIGHT THERE!!!" Then I found out it was supposed to be making me angry. . . ummmm ok?
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It can be annoying under specific circumstances. When I first started playing, I got it a lot from experienced survivors who could loop me endlessly. I'd chase them around one structure for a bit, they'd relocate and then start spam-pointing and teabagging at the next loop.
I was pretty frustrated by how hard it was to catch them, being mocked frustrated me more. After a few games though, I realized they were deliberately trying to provoke me so I'd make bad decisions. So instead of getting all "oooo, I'mma kill you for that!" I'd stop and go "heeey... wait a minute..." before realizing I've let myself be led away from a wounded survivor or a generator near completion.
These provocations seem to be pretty effective against newer killers who may be disoriented and overwhelmed, baiting them into a chase they can't win.
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You can say the same thing about raising a middle finger in America in real life. I mean, raising a finger is supposed to make me angry? How could someone moving their finger possibly be antagonistic?
The intent behind the gesture is what is important. People have adopted the simple raising of a finger to imply and convey certain negative things, and eventually people learn what the real message behind the action is.
So yeah, pointing can mean nothing, or it can be adopted by survivors, since they have so few ways to communicate in game, to mean something else entirely.
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Well to be offended by an action or mere words is silly, of course it is. That isn't the issue. You may have realised you were only upset because you read something telling you that you should be, but in my experience people are upset for a different reason to that, a reason that is core to relations between people.
People get upset at something if that said thing is intended to make them upset. Now people can say this doesn't upset them at all and my honest opinion is: they are either liars and/or sociopaths who don't feel anything about it because they don't care about people at all. Most people do care about what others think, say and do. They can't care about everything and everybody; there has to be a limit or there will be emotional burn-out, but when it comes to how others are directly interacting with them, there tends to be a focus on that which is necessary for blocking out things said and done by people who you have no relations with.
In the specific context of Dead By Daylight, I regard at the basic level anything a player may use in order to win is fair, even trying to put opponents in a state of mind that hinders them. I don't stay at that basic level though because whilst the onus is on the developers to make sure the game is fair and fun for everybody, many players are not by-standers. Having influenced the development of the game since release, they make use of features which emerged from that influence, some which can legitimately be argued were originally exploits turned into supported gameplay features. To me, those features and the over-reliant use of them is toxic.
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Thanks for weighing in with the dev perspective @not_Queen! I appreciate that this forum exists and gives us all a chance to be Player 1. Oh and thanks to you all for making such a great game that stirs so much passion in it's community.
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Hitting an survivor on a hook is considered as toxic behavior (not official... but you know by survs)?
I need to admit I have done it 3-4 times I guess...
Well... on the other hand, there are so many rules already made by players, nobody can follow them and still have fun in the game -_-.
Edit: Just out of a mood. Like... "I still got ya!"^^.
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This is gonna be my forever new steam banner
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Apparently sending death threats filled with expletives is a-okay but reacting to it is the bigger no-no. 🙄
Only toxic folks who leave such comments would agree with that.
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So when I first played the game I started as survivor. A killer hit me on hook and I thought it must have scored points or achieved some other purpose. When I started playing killer I did this to survivors because I thought I was supposed to. . . Oops!
The subject of intent has been brought up in several posts. In this circumstance I had no intent of toxicity. I think that's why it's been easier to not jump to the conclusion that a lot of these actions aren't meant as harassment. It does seem that a lot of people jump to the opposite conclusion. That's the whole reason I started this post. To highlight that it's often very unclear what the intent is behind certain actions.
It's been awesome to get to hear so many different perspectives!
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When it comes down to it, every player can basically decide what they consider "toxic" and in my opinion claiming anything else like trying to say things are "objectively" toxic is absurd at best.
I guess my personal stance is extreme to some people, as I believe everything working as intended and done in the interest of winning is technically fair game. So toxic behaviour to me is more or less exclusively stuff like being a rage goblin in post game chat, knowingly abusing/spreading stuff that's not working as intended, or not even playing to win and instead exclusively trying to get your fix of schadenfraude.
But even that isn't objective as what people consider exploits/stuff not working as intended can vary wildly, so different people will have different perceptions of where my "limits" are after reading that, based on their own personal opinions.
EDIT: I guess I should also specify that I personally don't even like the word "toxic" that much at all. It's used for so many things and has been completely warped in a similar way to terms like "tryhard". Most things I'd consider toxic I'd rather describe as some sort of trolling, griefing, harsh raging or exploiting.
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I should first say that I was a killer main and have also started dbd as such.
Still with that perspective I had not understand the most things as toxic, that have survivors do, besides a few cases where it was for me clear that it was ment to be toxic.
I was just surprised that hitting someone on a hook is also seen by some people as that.
But, imo, the most people tend to interpret in those things too much as you already said.
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Plague is toxic
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Hahahahaha! Well done!
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You're right, now I want a middle finger emote in the game , sounds amazing
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It would certainly add clarity to the intent of the action! Lol
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That would only be useful for Americans though. Would have to add something for each region. :)
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I mean why not? I would laugh more than be upset if I saw that in game and it's not a children's game , if you're allowing your kids to play the game you can't be upset at what happens because it was never intended for someone under 17 to play anyway and if you get mad at something that small God help you if you ever play red dead 2, GTA v , call of duty or any other game with far more toxicity than this one
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There are some multiplayer games that let you flip the bird. My head hurts too much today to remember them, but they exist.
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Lol it would balance this game (joking) all because people would be too busy flipping the bird and no gens would be done!
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I understand the devs saying teabagging isnt considered toxic by their rules but if you teabag me during a game you're getting facecamped, same with clicky clicky flashlighters.
Everyone else can leave but you're getting facecamped, beaten on hook, tunnelled if you manage to get unhooked, practically you aint getting out this game alive. The entity will be having that flashlight.
Killer emotes when?
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That's not just toxic, that's grieving and which I'm pretty sure is bannable.
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