can we please stop nerfing pig
she's been through enough leave her alone ;-;
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These aren't nerfs though, they're bug fixes
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Pig isn’t allowed to have any potential, she’s clearly too OP, in fact, we should buff Hillbilly and Nurse, they’re too underpowered and get easily bullied!!!11!!
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I'm referring to the "Pig's dash is no longer a basic attack", which I discussed as a nerf in my other thread here. That wasn't a bug. In the PTB, Exposed worked on her dash, which I thought was intentional - apparently, ever since the basic attack change, Exposed was never meant to work.
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I must have misunderstood what it was saying, sorry. It really is a pointless nerf to pig to not allow exposed to work on her dash attack. :-(
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Why Pig? That's my question. What does Pig have that the devs keep seeing fit to nerf?
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These are bug fixes after a change, the change is a nerf and a buff in some ways.
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None of that is a buff in any way.
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Not an intentional nerf to hurt her, but it's to help clarify what a basic attack is.
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The only buff in this instance is not losing stacks of STBFL after you dash the obsession. One survivor out of four, when running one specific perk. And you also can't gain stacks of STBFL with the dash if you hit any of the other three survivors. And STBFL doesn't even affect the dash!
In exchange, the dash loses all synergy with:
- Make Your Choice
- Devour Hope
- NOED
but I don't care because ######### noed - Rancor's Exposed effect
- Haunted Ground
- Iron Maiden
- Sloppy Butcher
- Dark Devotion
- Franklin's Demise
- Third Seal
- Remember Me
- Surge
Nice buff you got there.
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Idk why they did that to the pig's ambush; it's harder to use than demogorgon's shred. Piggy definitely didn't need this nerf.
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Remember the good old times, when dashing towards tb survivor in the exit gates with noed(or similar hidden exposing perks) was possible 😢
It was so satisfying and funny, i hope they revert that or buff her somehow again.
First egc, then dashing 😐 its just sad too see how they nerf her everytime. The pressure she created gaves her the unique way to play and pressure the end game, i absolutely hated this egc nerf of her 👎
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Can we stop saying these are bug fixes.... exposed was always intended to work on the ambush.... it just sounds sketchy to say this is a bug now because "special attack" is a thing..... like just say "hey the pounce from demo is pretty strong with exposed so we don't want that working with it and for consistency purposes the ambush shouldn't work with it either"
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Honestly who was really complaining that they were being downed by ambush when they were exposed.
While I can someone understand someone being irritated they got down by Demi Logorgon's as it has a large range comes out quickly and doesn't really need how much charge time.
But come on for a pig to ambush you mid chase she needs to Crouch and then charging up her ambush and even then the speed is an instantaneous it's more of a gradual speed pick up. Even with Crouch reduction and ambush charge of time reduction addons it's still isn't anywhere near as fast as Demi Logorgon.
so the change just comes up as wildly unnecessary ambush already didn't proc remember me, surge, infectious fright, dark devotion, stbfl, sloopy, Franklins or hex the third seal all those perks lost synergy with ambush you didn't think you could just let us keep the exposed perks.
Honestly the only good thing that came out of the ambush change was being able to hit your obsession and not lose stacks that's it.
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Yet Legion's frenzy attacks count as basic, though they can't down and have almost instant recovery. Guess if attack can't down it doesn't matter. What gives.
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Maybe they'll buff her in a different way? I think they said that they are wanting to look at her in the future still.
Also, Pig did receive a buff just a few patches ago as well, making her not slow down for a second whenever she starts crouching.
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From the sound of things, it seems like them taking a look at the Pig won't happen for a bit of a while.
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True. Right now it's Nurse and Doc. Can't wait for the Doc changes though.
I do think she is quite good though at the moment. She really doesn't need anymore than maybe just a few small buffs, if anything.
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Doesn't the Pig just got "buffed" by the stalking variants rework ?
Like she now use the same stalk has Myers(undetectable) and her old stalk(oblivious) is a status effect you put on survivors.
She's already a thousand time more viable now. Without mentioning all the killers who got buffed by this "new" status effect.
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That is not a "bug fix" or "issue fix", it's a nerf.
The devs had literally programmed the Ambush attack to count as a basic attack during the PTB and now set the value from True to False. It wasn't some bugged line of code or interfering values, but rather a conscious decision.
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Consistency is now called nerf. LOL
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Ambush was originally a basic attack, that was changed in an update, ambush and shred were affected by exposed effects despite not being a basic attack (or even intended at this point) so it is still a bug fix.
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Ambush and Shred applying Exposed was indeed a bug, yes. But Ambush being a basic attack was not, it was a conscious decision, not a bug.
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New statuses was only added to demogorgon and Freddy. None of other killers have it (yet?).
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Still since her stalk is now a status effect she must use the stronger stalk variant no ?
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As I said, only two killers was affected with new status effects. Pig is still old pig.
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Really ? I expected them to give her undetectable stalk and oblivious on succesful charge hit.
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I wish! Oblivious on ambush hit would be such a treat. It actually would be worth ambushing survivors with her ambush ability.
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Great, so let's be consistent and make Nurse post-blink hits not count as basic attacks again. Right?
Consistency should ALWAYS lose out to what makes a killer better (to play as, or against). And the Pig's dash is pretty weak as it is, her other power has only 4 uses the entire game (and all must be used before gens are powered or they're wasted), so... consciously deciding to let the Dash work as a basic attack seems like it just makes sense to leave her viable. Just like they consciously decided to make Nurse post-blink hits count as a basic attack.
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Nurse post blink hits being basic attacks is consistent. Blinks don't change how her attack works.
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Sure it does. She literally teleports, using her special and entirely magical ability, and then hits. A basic attack would be if she just hit.
Pig? She just crouches and then runs, and if she hits, she hits with the exact same weapon she hits if she's not ambush-dashing. How is that LESS a basic attack than a Nurse, or a Wraith for that matter who jumps out of literal invisibility?
Of course, the real reason the Nurse's post-blink hits aren't considered basic attacks is because it would mean virtually and perk that involves only basic attacks would never be used because she's not fast enough to get non-blink hits except in the rarest circumstances. Wraith? A lot less sense making there because he actually can pull off hits without directly coming out of invisibility. In both cases, they sacrificed consistency among killers (using your special power as part of a hit) for making a better killer.
If you want consistency, be consistent with THAT philosophy and make Pig's dash attacks considered a basic attack, because she's not a strong killer.
Hell, for that matter, if I'm not mistaken (and I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sure I've got all these right, so feel free to point out if I'm wrong), right now, Pig is thoroughly INCONSISTENT: Am I wrong, or does every other killer that has "non-basic attacks" ones where those are only coming from sources OTHER than their main weapon, regardless of whether powers went into using it.. Huntress? Has non-basic attack from a secondary hatchet. Billy/Bubba? Non-basic attack is their chainsaw as opposed to hammer (or other cosmetic weapon). Hag teleport-hits? Basic attack. Nurse teleport-hits? Basic attack. Wraith straight-from-invisibility-hits? Basic attack. Myers/Ghostface Exposed hits? Basic. Demogorgon Shred- Not basic attack, but with the shred you're also using BOTH hands instead of just one. Plague? Not basic attack is a vomit spray instead of her censor.
But Pig? Same weapon as always. Not basic for some reason.
Not consistent at all. At least make Pig's dash a second knife she pulls or something if you're going to justify it.
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"Sure it does. She literally teleports, using her special and entirely magical ability, and then hits. A basic attack would be if she just hit."
That's not changing how the attack works. That is changing how the Nurse moves. The Nurse's power is 100% movement based and deals zero damage.
The Pig's ambush attack functions very mechanically different from a basic attack because it has its own specific charge-up time and extended lunge distance.
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You're splitting hairs and you know it. The nurse has to charge her blink, and then has to release it, makes an attack, and then suffers from fatigue, completing her blink action. The act all occurs before the blink has finished. It's an attack that's far different from a basic attack. That's why blink hits are a different scoring event than non-blink hits, and why, until they decided specifically to change this aspect of how it worked (and rightly so), it wasn't counted as a basic attack when that started to become a common perk condition. The Wraith has to hold his button to come out of cloak, then gets an automatic speed boost for an attack, that's why "surprise hits" are counted as a different scoring event then hits. Similar (though with a slightly different activation with charge) with Hag and phantasm attacks, and Spirit and her Grudge, they're non-basic attacks that are treated as basic despite having special conditions and often a movement boost attached.
Literally the only reasons the Pig's dash isn't counted is because they decided it doesn't, and maybe because the 'attack' isn't a separate button but completes automatically (something devs could easily change if they so desired, and require a deliberate swing at the end of a dash). And even if the latter is the case, it, too, is just a choice, that THIS similarity/difference from other killers is more important than any others that have been highlighted... the Pig's dash not being considered a basic attack is still, in several ways, inconsistent with every other killer is treated, and so it's not really about mythical consistency at all.
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I'm giving the exact difference between attacking out of a Nurse blink and Ambush attacks. A Nurse Blink is not an attack. It is a movement option. If you attack in the post-blink, you are still doing the same attack. You are not doing a different attack. If the Nurse Blink functioned such that she instead automatically injures someone she slams into while blinking, THAT would be a non-basic attack because it has a different property from what would be considered a normal attack. Same goes for Wraith. If you uncloak and attack, your attack isn't different from when you normally attack. If Wraith's Windstorm-like ability caused him to tackle someone, that would be a non-basic attack. Having the option to just do a normal attack out of a power use does not make the attack non-basic.
Pig's Ambush, however, IS different from her normal attack. It has a different set-up and execution option from if you were to normally lunge. Another Killer that falls under this is the Demogorgon.
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"Pig's Ambush, however, IS different from her normal attack. It has a different set-up and execution option from if you were to normally lunge. Another Killer that falls under this is the Demogorgon."
I'm fairly certain you just countered yourself right there. I didn't know that all killers' normal lunges involved crouching down and charging.
But even without this consistency argument, the nerf was unjustified. Pig does not need any more nerfs. If anything, she needs a buff. Balance is far more important than consistency. I'd actually argue that consistency - in the sense that most killers function like others - is a bad thing. You get less variety in the killers you play as or against, leading to less fun on both sides.
The general opinion of the community appears to be that Pig actually needs buffing, not nerfing. Personally, I don't think she needs a direct buff. She just needs to return to what she was on release, but with all the extra QoL changes they gave her:
- 28m TR
- 1.3s base crouch time (1s with Combat Straps)
- Dash counts as a basic attack, and possibly even make it benefit from STBFL
- The only nerf I'd consider somewhat justified was the Endgame one, especially since it still kinda works if you start popping traps at 1 gen left.
Another thing that really irritates me is that, from the perspective of a Pig main who has put effort and time into learning the intricacies of her power, it feels like I'm being punished for trying to use her ambush in a skillful way. We're slowly heading to a point where the W+M1 Endfury NOED Pig is the optimal playstyle, and ######### nobody likes the W+M1 Endfury NOED Pigs.
Her ambush provides a nice chase power that is neither overpowered nor unfun to play against. Why the ######### is it getting nerfed while Nurse and Spirit aren't?
TL;DR - Pig doesn't need nerfs, she doesn't need consistency, STOP NERFING HER PLS TY
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