Thanatophobia and Dying Light
So, I don't know about others, but at the moment I do feel like on their own, Dying Light and especially Thana feel a little underwhelming (I am not totally sure about that though, so keep in mind this is just my impression and my opinion on these two perks). Buffing them however would result in them becoming ridiculous when used together. So personally what I would suggest is having a max action speed debuff cap or simply not letting them stack, and instead they can be used on their own more effectively. As a debuff cap I would suggest 20 or 25 %, maybe have different debuff caps for different actions. So the repair and healing speed can never get too high.
And just so you know, 24% reduced repair speed on one survivor increases the time to repair one full generator for that survivor from 80 to 100 seconds.
However the cap should only apply when perks or addons are stacking. Since there are perks that can reach higher values, such as Coulrophobia. The easier solution would probably be to not have them stack at all, but instead just have the perk with the higher value take effect.
I believe that if we'd want a buff to those two perks, it would only work with one of the changes I suggested above. I would buff the two perks like this:
Dying Light
Hooking the obsession now also grants you a token, and the obsession should also be affected by the action speed debuffs, in addition to the altruistic action speed buff. This is the main buff I would suggest, and would be happy if that's all.
Yet, I would also love if the first two tokens would decrease action speed by 4% instead of 3%. Or maybe even have every token decrease action speed by 4%, but have it cap at 6 tokens or so. However, if values would also get buffed, I would also have the perk deactivate as soon as any survivor is dead, since the killer is in a much better position anyways once only 3 survivors are left, and at that point survivors would probably just give up because of the low repair speed.
That's the one small problem I have with Dying Light, it gets stronger the less gens and survivors are left, which is also when the killer becomes stronger anyways, and is weaker the more gens and survivors are left, which is where the killers struggles more with defending gens. Of course this will always be like that because of the design of Dying Light, but I wouldn't mind if the perk was changed so that it's effectiveness isn't quite as progressive.
Thanatophobia
The healing and sabotage values should stay, but the repair action speed should be decreased by 10/12/14/16 % in my opinion, so that more killers except for Plague and Legion can get great use out of the perk.
Comments
-
I disagree with the 4% first tokens for dying light if you combine thana and dying it slows gens a ton the point of the perk is to get tokens to gain slow down once you got 5 its pretty much over.
0 -
Dying Light just shouldn't deactivate if the obsession dies, you should just no longer be able to get stacks.
Thanata just needs better numbers and should include dead survivors.
9 -
It's good on Plague, specially beacuse the Obsession won't get the 33%
1 -
I'd rather have the obsession give you stacks as well instead of it being active after the obsession is dead. I think it's fine that the perk deactivates as soon as the obsession is dead. Killers always gain quite the advantage as soon as one survivor is dead.
Thana also shouldn't count dead survivor in my opinion. Just better values for repair speed. The way it is now doesn't reward you in any way for tunneling, if anything the perk rewards you for not tunneling. I would like that to stay that way.
0 -
Both of those changes would work as well.
0 -
Well you did read that I would only want buffs to Thana and Dying Light if those two perks don't stack or if there is a action speed debuff cap so the two perks together can't slow down the gens too much?
However, I'd be fine without the higher values for Dying Light. Like I said, I would only want higher values if the perk deactivates once any survivor is dead.
I do want to say that 5 stacks on Dying Light isn't that crazy though. 5 stacks means 15% decreased repair speed, which I believe is about 14 seconds more one survivor would need to repair one generator from 0 to 100 %. So not that crazy but not bad either.
1 -
One thing that bugs me just a bit about Dying Light is that you can get unlucky and find your Obsession first and most frequently. It feels a bit luck dependent on how much use you get from Dying Light.
0 -
Have you even faced a plague and Legion with these perks? It's miserable.
1 -
Thats assuming you dont have thana then yeah 15% but the point is the combination is really strong as is it does it job and stacks well towards late game i dont think it needs any changes.
In regards to the obsession i usually just slug them for more pressure thats 1 person off a gen and allows me to find and down another one to start the stacking Process.
0 -
Once again, I would only want buffs to those two perks if they didn't stack with each other or could only stack up to a certain percentage, like 25%. So an additional change before buffing Thana or Dying Light. I get that buffing those perks in any way and letting them stack the way they can now would be way too op.
1 -
With both at the same time? That's why I said they should only receive buffs if they didn't stack like they do now.
0 -
Yeah but to be completely honest i kinda like the way dying light is now i dont really want to see it changed as for thana maybe a small % increase but other then that i think it stacks well with dying i dont know if i'd be a fan of taking the stacking away but who knows.
0 -
That's understandable. I would prefer them being better on their own but not as good when together, but perhaps the majority would rather just keep it the way it is now. I'd be fine with that as well.
1 -
See the problem with dying light and thanatophobia is that you can never make them to powerful by themselves because they stack.
Second you buff the numbers of thanatophobia you also buff combination it has with any other slow down perks.
Same goes for dying light
Now imagine you have Legion or plague ( two of the killers who have the most reliable at keeping survivors injured whether it's because it's not worth healing or healing gives the killer an advantage) running those two perks if they got buffed.
Can you imagine the immense amount of slowdown that these guys could achieve very early on.
Let's say thanatophobia got buffed to have a maximum 24% ( a number they tested with on the ptb)
Let's also say dying light buff it give you 5 per token this is only a difference of 2 ( what's the harm)
So with everybody injured and at least 3 hooks you already have a slow down of roughly 39%
Whilst this is happening you could still have a ruin up
the slowdown has already become so painful that you're probably going to start to get survivors just disconnecting or killing themselves on hook
1 -
I have been running it on my plague. I've mained her since she hit the test servers.
Dying Light, Thanataphobia, Stridor, BBQ (If I have Black Incense or don't need BP I swap it out for a combat perk or Blood Warden)
I used to run Ruin instead of stridor, but it felt like overkill. But I have seen a lot of survivors complaining about how awful playing a 15-20 minute game is instead of them just being allowed to power through gens. I still get hard looped at times and Dying Light sometimes never even gets going.
With that said it feels like them stacking alongside ruin is really bad for the game. It forces survivors to cleanse or give me all that time to catch them. That or outright out loop me. If they can't I probably 4k.
With 6 stacks of dying light and max Thanataphobia thats 34% slow down. That is a full dying light. I honestly think Ruin is whats pushing it over the edge.
Freddy adds swing chains and thats 3% per survivor in the dream so 46%. Jump Rope adds 9%. That's 55% with just 6 stacks of Dying Light. With Ruin this doesn't seem fair to the survivors at all.
Legion sounds like this should make him strong but it doesn't. He stacks knives and raises mending time from 15 to 20 seconds. He has to have momentum which is hard to get when he's play stabbing people to make them bleed. If he has momentum and is getting hooks it is potentially very strong. I'm unsure if it's on the same level as the other two. Needs more testing.
0 -
I feel that with dying light if you hook the obsession you should still gain a stack instead of non since the obsession isn't being affected by dying light but they still get the healing speed increase which makes you not even want to go for them, plus if the obsession dies you should still be able to keep the benefits but you shouldn't be able to gain anymore stacks like with STBFL. With thana they can just up the numbers on it from (3%/3.5%/4% to a max of 12%14%/16) to (3%/4%/5% to a max of 12%/16%/20%).
1 -
Lol this is actually getting very interesting. Does nobody read the first part of my post? Did you not read it? Not that I'm mad, I just find it uqite interesting.
But as I've said in my post, I would only want these buffs if the perks either didn't stack at all or if perks that stack repair speed decrease had a max cap, like 25%. So no matter how many perks or addons you use that slow down specific action speed, it can't go higher than 25%, unless one perk alone achieves a higher value, such as Coulrophobia for example.
1 -
Haven't gone again this yet, but a Plague with Ruin, Thana, and Dying Light does really sound like a pain. Another reason I would like to see these perks buffed and instead not have them stack at all or only stack until a certain action speed decrease is reached, so they are better on their own but can't become overwhelming when used together on certain killers.
Heck I wouldn't mind if they added an action speed debuff cap without buffing these two perks, since it does reach a point where this combination can get quite crazy on some killers. Plauge is the main contender here.
The only thing balancing this somewhat is that you are using 3 perk slots, Ruin for slowing down the game early and Thana and Dying Light for slowing the game down later on. But if Ruin stays the entire game, that can get very tough.
0 -
@ad19970 Honestly after running it on Freddy that 55% slow down with ruin and his map presence. I think He's the contender. I have been running it on plague and she still struggles. But at least now they feel pressured to give me my power or suffer the slow. I actually think she might be more fair at this point. I refuse to run ruin on any of my killers now. I hate that perk so much.
1 -
Freddy just feels like he's getting too much raw numbers from his add ons on top of the Thanata and Dying Light.
0 -
Yes I agree totally. Didn't really think about Freddy and his addons. 55% is just insane, didn't know it can get that slow. Honestly, I believe we really need an action speed debuff cap, don't even care if they buff Dying Light and Thana or not, and I'd be surprised if it didn't happen in one of the next patches, now that these values can stack like this. I feel like a 25% would be a fair cap. So survivors actions could never be slowed down too much. Healing speed debuff cap could maybe also be 30%, but repairing should probably be 25%. 55% repair speed decrease plus Ruin is just absolutely insane, and shouldn't be possible.
Obviously the cap should only be for stacking addons and perks, since there are perks like Coulrophobia that have higher values and should of course still stay the same. But action speed debuffs that are caused by multiple addons and/or perks should only stack up to 25%, and no more.
Honestly, since the devs themselves said that they are always very cautious about action speed debuffs, I wouldn't be surprised if they added a cap to action speed debuffs in the next patch. I do hope so. Better than if they come up with the idea to just nerf Freddy in general.
0 -
It's so op. And this build is tired asf with ruin. It's basically a lose game, só i die on the first hook
1 -
This is the change I think most of us would be happy with. Afterall, Save The Best For Last lets you keep tokens.
0 -
Well now that's ridiculous. I agree, their should be a cap on how much killers can slow down action speed of survivors, but just giving straight up, that's not good. The killer does use 3 perks for that combination, so that means he is only using one other perk that could help him in chases or with detecting survivors. It's not that op, you still have a chance to win. Especially since Ruin usually gets destroyed before Dying Light and Thana can properly kick in and become powerful.
Once enough maps are succesfully reworked (more pallets but less safe pallets, smaller maps), Ruin should be nerfed though.
0 -
@ad19970 I actually would like to see
Freddys Jump Rope Add on Reduced or moved to a higher rarity or it's flat 9% lowered. 9% slow down on anyone in the dream is a lot for a green add on. I also want to see Freddy's microsleep timer adjusted to be a little higher in general.
Microsleeps happen way too fast right now, triggering the slow downs. Like 5-10 seconds would probably do it tbh. This would give Survivors some breathing room between breaking the dream and dealing with the action speed slow downs.
Remember that Freddy can pack make your choice and camp now too because of the oblivious changes and since healing is slowed and actually allowed to happen he is halting the game because survivors are also wasting time healing.
Plague locks them out of healing entirely so they can only really push gens, or cleanse. At least with plague Survivors have a choice. Cleanse and interact with the killer, or hold M1 and stare at Gens. I see more people cleansing now. I don't even need Ruin anymore. With Legion the action speeds don't effect mend times and there is plenty of time before you absolutely have to start mending.
Thanta could be lowered from 16% to 12% max and now stay in effect for dead survivors. It's that or rework it outright. But I honestly think it's Freddy being over-tuned creating the problem.
Dying Light stays the same over all. I think it is fine as is. On it's own, it helps slow down the mid game and snowballs hard. (Consider that this is Mikey's perk and that Mikey struggles to stalk mid game when his terror radius is on and everyone is avoiding him.)
0 -
I think I'll do an article on Dying Light and whats happening like I did for my older posts.
0
