All survivors can really do is loop.
- Killers are inherently faster than survivors; it's impossible for them to escape in any open space
- 360s don't work due to how inflated killer/survivor hitboxes are, any half-brained killer easily negates a 360
- So many add-ons give the exhausted effect, disabling our main tools of escape or survival
- Being stealthy isn't as easy an option as it once was due to how many different perks and abilities there are designed to snuff out survivors
Looping is all we really have to avoid getting killed. I see it complained about a lot by a few killer mains on here. Why? There is literally nothing else we can do to evade killers. Looping only stalls for time, it's inevitable we'll get caught unless the killer decides to go away and work on someone else.
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The problem is the amount of time a good survivor can buy their team in a chase with how fast the survivors can do their objective.
Also a lot of loops are just super-boring and frustrating for the killer since the killer can't try any mindgames and just has to run after the survivor. That's an issue with the map design.
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I heard that the game in 2016 was meant to be hide & seek, while today its about the chase & loop.
Hide & seek is something I prefer more as a survivor, staying a small space and Killer walks pass but not seeing you. Though I understand its super boring in Killer perspective because barely see survivor to slice them, which is Killer's main gameplay.
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I'm with you on that but I guess it comes down the the competitive nature of killer main's but you can loop all day don't worry about the complaint's loop'em to they blue in the face
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I find myself running at the killer and being in his terror radius just because of the way this game is designed for Blood point gain. Bold, escape, distraction, but when you crouch or flashlight at the killer to chase you, I'm labeled a toxic survivor because of my play style. Kinda funny, right?
Basically the killer doesn't even need to be a good tracker with an average headset, or run tracking perks because the game ensure you run at him.
This game is so great in some aspects, but such a let down in others. I haven't even been playing much this BP event because of the matchmaking. I play killer I feel bad for the potato in my lobby running in a straight line or hiding in a locker without quick and quiet, and I play survivor and than they are on my team. 10/10 they never loop more than 5 sec, but are matched with 1-4 killers. I don't want them in my lobby on either side.
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I mostly play survivor and I understand why some people complain because some of the loops are ridiculous and they take so much of your time while you can't really do anything as killer. Ironworks window is a good example of this.
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I mean it still doesn't change the fact that the killer at the end of the day will inevitably get the survivor at some point. You have to be trying as a killer to fail a chase most of the time.
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As I said above, some loops consume too much time.
On some maps there exist spots where the killer has to abandon the chase and let the survivor go because otherwise he would lose too much time and as a consequence would lose the entire match. Not the survivor's fault, it's just really bad map design.
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You can close the loop in a second with Bamboozle, just so you know.
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True, but you shouldn't have to run bamboozle. That loop is way too powerful
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The game isn't a 1v1 and succeeding in 1 chase isn't a win. That is why time matters; there's 3 other survivors probably doing generators while you're chasing 1.
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Wrong, you can have 1 surv healing other, doing totems, looking for items or hiding.
The 3 other survivors probably doing gens is a fallacy.
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Wow, what a good argument. Much wow.
No really, this holds no water at higher ranks or with SWF.
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Im rank 2 surv and I see that in every game, there is no need to troll because you cant deal with the terrible thing you said.
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What terrible thing did I say? I honestly think it's wrong. I play Killer and when I am chasing people, the gens get popped. I'm sorry you've gotten bad teams man, but in my experience and in my opinion you are wrong. The person you first replied to was correct. There shouldn't BE a 1v1 way to beat a Killer as easily as it seems everyone wants. It would not be balanced at all. What? Is the survivor gonna just pull out a gun and shoot the Killer dead next? it's a 1v4 game. The 4 SHOULD NOT equal the 1. That simple. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry.
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Gens get popped because you are talking too much time to get them, and there is nothing to do about it, you have 2 different times in the game which are the same, oxymoron?
If you play surv you have to be there 80 seconds which is a lot of time, killer can spot you and leave the chase.
If you play killer and you insist with that chase and the guy is good, you will feel time is short when in fact you have been chasing the guy for 2 minutes (a lot of time)
If you use Ruin you ¨may¨ slow down things a little, you can kick gens you hear working, Corrupt Intervention buys you good time, Overcharge and other things.
Im not saying the other guy is wrong, Im just saying there are more things than 1 guy getting chased and 3 doing gens.
And lots of surprises happening during the game, thats the good thing about the game, the opportunities.
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Bamboozle is a poor argument. It is designed to fight this really strong Windows, but it also helps to play Killer in a braindead way, even more pressing W to follow a Survivor, instead of doing Mindgames. Those God Windows need to go, but so needs Bamboozle.
Of course it works. Applying Pressure is the Key.
Sometimes I have the feeling that Killers want a Perk which says "When one Survivor is in a chase, all Gens are blocked". If the Killer actually is scary, people will heal. Of course I dont need healing when I play vs a Trapper who follows me without any mindgame and respects every Pallet. But I want to get healed vs good Killers which also apply pressure. And this means that 2 people are off Gens, make it 3 with one getting chased. Quite a good situation.
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Couldn't agree more. You can see the big differences in solo queue matches where most of your mates can't loop ######### and drop pallets instantly or running pointless in open areas. In this case it's pretty much gg for the killer because you can't do all gens alone.
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I agree. Just as killers need to at least see hooked survivors as defendable objectives and, sometimes, even to camp, survivors need to use the tools that they have to survive. Both sides need to understand this and stop thinking that playing the game equals BMing.
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Well, i see this is "Survivor main only" Territory. I'll see myself out. I know for sure I'll never be able to convince any of you any different than what you already think, and there is no reason to try.
"Oh he's just saying that cause he lost and can't argue. What a Killer main troll."
Nope. Just been on this song and dance one too many times to bother.
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And you're suposed to be chased a lot by the killer in order to upgrade the emblem
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You can actually pull off some impressive jukes if you know what you're doing.
I've played against a few survivors that could juke effectively.
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Actually, you get points as well for being close to the killer unnoticed. So, stealth is rewarded.
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We complain about it because many of us were opposed to the suggestions that created this state of affairs and were ridiculed for doing so. The devs do not listen to killers.
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"The devs do not listen to killers."
Maybe take a look at the Patch Notes from now to 12 months ago.
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Loop all you want. Just don't cry when you're camped to death the first time you are caught.
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Eh, you're sorta undervaluing stealth. Don't even need a full stealth perk build, but even just Iron Will opens a lot of possibilities. And I'm not talking about creeping around the edge of the map, but making the killer fail to find you when checking a gen, making them waste more time before the chase starts or either completely or temporarily losing the killer during a chase. There's situations where it's a lot harder than others though, based on killer powers, perks and addons.
But once the chase starts, and especially if it's around the stupid non-mindgameable Blood Lodge type pallets, it's only natural that survivors will make every pallet last as long as possible. Even if you disagree with how effective it can be in the current state of the game, blaming the player for doing so isn't the right way to go about it at all.
I feel a nice change would be to cut down hard on the pallets with no LOS blockers or potential for higher brain activity on either side while running them. More tiles with walls, less tiles that are just piles of garbage with a pallet between them... maybe with some sneaky hatchet-sized gaps in them, but that might just be the Huntress "main" in me being a little biased 😄
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That's not even particularly true though, even running in a straight line can waste a lot of time. In most cases, a decent head start and 1 hit can let you literally run across the entire map before the killer can catch up. This is especially effective when the gates are powered, when distance is more important than time, and when going against killers with a slower than average movement speed. And, just like looping, it's just brainless holding W until you catch up the the survivor.
Post edited by Cetren on1 -
Its not the only thing they can do but it is the most efficient strat to waste time.
Personally I find it more fun trying to lose a killer than loop de loop over and over.
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So I guess the double backs, trail confusion and outright ghosting killers like I've been doing for years is not viable.
Who would of thought...
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That's why most people that complain about palllet looping aren't just asking for them to be removed. What most people want is heavy map reworks to make less pallets/weaker pallets more viable and where the survivors aren't so reliant on them.
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The issue is not looping, it's how bs tiles can be at times and creates stuff that's almost infinite worthy in the worst maps.
Also some map like The game have way too much pallets which are almost always safe ones.
Killers who whine about the simple aspect of looping are usually terrible at the game and don't want to learn mindgames/smart plays against it, kinda like stealth mains who calls it a playstyle when they just don't want to bother learning the most effecient playstyle for surv.
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So, I was having this conversation with a streamer Friday night. If they opened up the window for stealth to be effective in chases and closed the window a bit more on looping, it would benefit individual survivors and killers significantly.
Example: Limit aura perks during chases and perhaps add in more perks like Dance with Me where a survivor can temporarily turn on a stealth mode to try and evade a killer. It means more survivors will escape chases. In order for this to balance out there needs to be a way to shorten loops. One such way is to let bloodlust not only effect pallet breaking speed and stun recovery from pallets, but have it persist through those actions as well.
Game Impact
1. Shorter looping chases as the linger the chase goes, the more dangerous the killer becomes. It becomes hard to loope once bloodlust kicks in. Combined with enduring or brutal strength, bloodlust 2 could nearly eliminate pallets as a factor.
2. Survivors with a higher stealth window in chases are given opportunities to cut chases short, this avoiding getting downed. Though the killer may not get that down, he is now back to pressuring the gens.
It is crucial to add that killer skill will become a much more important factor in this scenario. I don't think stealth should be buffed overall, just during chases. That means the killer needs to work harder to anticipate, keep an eye on the survivor and try to limit their opportunity to activate stealth perks, such as vaulting to trigger DWM.
Honestly, I'd rather short cat and mouse games as a killer than prolonged pallet eating contests.
@Peanits what are the drawbacks in this?
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This idea might be a little crazy but I'll throw it out there. I personally have no issue with looping because like OP said, if you're in a chase what else are you supposed to do? But I just randomly thought of this idea when i woke up this morning so here we go.
Remove scratch marks, replace with footprints.
Hear me out for a second.
- Dumb reason out the way first: Scratch marks are dumb anyway and make no sense. Leaving footprints on the floor when you run actually does.
- This would buff stealth during a chase, so after you get hit that first time and get your burst of speed and try to break line of sight, you can choose to keep running or to duck behind a corner and hide. The killer at that point would have to be looking for your footsteps, your bloodtrail, or your hurt sounds for tracking. (stealth buff to No Mither?)
That's basically all I've thought about so far. Haven't really fleshed out the idea completely but it would make mid-chase stealth a viable option, especially if you're running something like Iron Will or No Mither (or both). The way the game is now, stealth is rarely an option once the chase has initiated
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to all those that wants to make its game hide and seek, this game would be in 1% that popular if it wasnt for chases, mindgames/tricks during chases xd
if devs would want to kill this game for sure they would make stealth only viable strat xd
for 1st 600h i was playing stealthy but after that i had to let killer find me and not lose in chase because i was best in team when it comes to loop and using map resources so it was i will be chased for 2-3min and use like 4-5 pallets or random will drop die instantly (so killer would gain pressure) or waste 10 pallets in 1-2min (i have 1 clip on which in 30 sec 1 surv wasted 4 pallets and got down) xd (and no it wasnt rank 15, it was red rank)
someone told in 2016 it was meant to be stealthy game, 1st in 2016 devs didnt expect this game to grow that much, 2nd in 2016 ppl didnt know how to loop, 3rd in 2016 didnt had: Doc, bbq, discordance, whispers didnt worked and many other things (and solo surv can counter only bbq) soo yea
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Keyword "Almost"
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I agree with you on the Hide and Seek not being viable for the majority of the time and chases being the most fun part on the game, but saying that a solo survivor can only counter BBQ is being ignorant.
Here are some tips about the tools Killers got:
BBQ - Locker's, Hide aura behind Gen, keep within the 40 meters threshold.
Discordance - Solo Gen (I have been hit by some random Discordance some times and during the match I was able to tell the killer had it).
Doctor - Calm Spirit (not a real suggestion just have to throw this here) OR manage your Madness (you keep your progress on Madness when running or doing gens like exhaustion so try to walk once in a while to lower the Madness and you should be good).
Whispers - I agree this is one of the best tracking perks, but literally just do that so most people don't run it, I guess you at least get a warning by the TR (Stealth Killers not warning isn't a issue because that is their little gimmick).
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...Only killers read the patch-notes, going by the conversations I've had. From your cited source of the patch notes of the last 12 months, find me one single example of something introduced which was notably and expressly requested by killers. You can't, because I've already tried and have been more interested in it than anyone else has so far expressed for almost three years now.
The closest you will get is killers being able to close the hatch; one thing which was notably and expressly requested, repeatedly, by clear-thinking and actually genuine killer-mains. It had a PTB and was a success, so of course we couldn't have that; the devs had to find a way to screw it up and defeat the whole purpose of us having asked for it. So they did and now it triggers EGC, which powers the gates, leaving killers still with a catch-22 on whether to close the hatch when guarding both gates isn't possible. It means survivors can still hold the game hostage.
Killers getting unrequested and unwanted 'paper-buffs' does not mean the devs are listening. Survivors getting 'paper-nerfs' does not mean the devs are hearing anything killers have to say.
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Exhaustion Nerf
Healing Nerf
PGTW Buff
3 things that come to my mind in 2 seconds.
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To me complaining about loops “taking too much time” and completely denying the fact that Bloodlust give you a FREE pass in maps where the majority of the pallets are unsafe is kind of comical.
You drop a pallet and the killer can practically walk around it, swing and hit you. Actually the majority do this in red ranks. Build BL because it doesn’t take that long to build it up, and then just catch up to you.
Some loops are strong but they only become strong after you have chosen to commit to that chase. Meaning if you have already been looped somewhere else else and then the survivor ends up at an even stronger loop, you can’t be mad because that was your choice to follow them around the entire map.
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Actually I don't see people complain about looping since quite a while, and rightfully so since it got nerfed a lot. The main complaint nowadays is about "gen rush".
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Don't just try winging it, as the fact you admit it took you '2 seconds' shows: what were the changes, when and what conversations were killer-mains having that correlated with that?
Anyone can pull examples of changes out of their rectum and claim they're because of what killers said. Takes '2 seconds'. The game is in the state it is in because there's too few people that care that discussion about it should be informed by facts and specifics.
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I don't think survivors can just loop. Well at least at my level of play.
I cant loop to save my in game life. I'm not bad at all imo i usually sit around purple rank on surv and killer. I get matched up with red ranks alot too and id say i do alright (win more then i loss on both side). I ALWAYS resort to stealth if able as surv. The longer a chase goes the more likely im gonna get hooked.
Now there are some good players out that can loop you forever but if you continue to pursue them thats on you imo.
FYI I have a bad eye so when i start running around and images start imposing on one another i tend to run into things. Its actually pretty funny in game and annoying in RL.
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Oh come on. You dont need to act dumb. Healing (mainly Self Care) and Exhaustion Nerf were requested by Killers for a long time.
PGTW not that much, but there were Threads about it. Really, if you want prove, use the Search Function of this Forum.
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Most of the posts I see that complain about loops are complaining because looping is just...boring. I tried to get my cousin into this game, we're pretty close and he wants to game with me. He didn't want to play because "all you do is run around stuff." And he's right. I'm not saying that everyone will find it boring, but after almost 1600 hours of 90% survivor gameplay, I can agree with him: looping is boring. It's only because of map design that killers and survivors have to loop around things scattered in the trial area. The direction they're going in for map design is have a lot of unsafe pallets, and a few good ones. I don't see how they could change it any more than they've tried. When they made Crotus and Haddon, they added some versatile escape routes (jumping in and out of places/ledges) but that itself wasn't better or more interactive. If anything adding that extra layer of gameplay only reinforced the killers (and to an extent) survivors hatred of doing the same thing over and over: running around stuff.
I agree with a lot of the killers when they say "looping sucks" etc. It's frustrating not being able to catch your prey against a halfway decent survivor that knows how to get the most out of pallet loops/windows. Take Coldwind for example, they have large, long loops on that map, and sometimes RNG will spawn two pallet loop tiles next to the vault window at Shack. And unless you're the Nurse or Spirit (two killers that were made due to poor map design) you're screwed over by a random game mechanic that you had no control over.
Sorry for rambling :3
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The way I see it, looping is only a problem because of the rate at which gens get done. Most survivors know as long as the killer is occupied and getting looped, its fairly safe to do gens with impunity. And since the only real objective in the game is to do gens, games tend to run really short.
Personally, I'm fairly ambivalent about looping. I enjoy it most when I actually lose sight of the survivor through being juked, and I feel outplayed and that I can improve and fix whatever mistake caused me to lose the chase. Unfortunately most loops don't occur that way, its just from one loop to the next, throwing in all manner of exhaustion perks to completely negate survivor mistakes (whereas killer mistakes usually mean you lose the chase).
I feel like there are many ways to alleviate the problem and give survivors some other, fairer way of an out during a chase while still keeping loops in the game and without having to mess with generators and objectives.
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I could also ask you to not act dumb. Those things have been the subject of discussion among killers, with no consensus on anything that should be submitted to the devs as requests. You did not specify which changes you are even talking about, which is what I asked for so we are not talking past each other or misunderstanding anything.
It is extremely easy to make a list of changes you don't like and assign them to having an origin among killer-mains posting about them. This ignores the broader context of what other changes happened that coincided with them and can affect what they actually mean for the whole game. Case in point; killers got hatch-closing only after the purpose of our having requested it had been made pointless by EGC.
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