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Hatch change suggestions?

GolgiNea
GolgiNea Member Posts: 157
in General Discussions

The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

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Comments

  • Totohli
    Totohli Member Posts: 41

    I can understand that people really want to see a change but for me personally, the hatch isn't a problem at all. The closing mechanic seemed ok, but i can imagine survivors just hiding out somewhere, keeping the game hostage, and making it even longer instead of actually doing something

    Having 3 kills as killer is great already, having a psychological battle with another player by simply waiting, just for getting the 4th kill, it just seems so absurd for me.
    People can do what they want but i rather just roam around looking for a survivor out in the open and feeling Lucky, than creating a waiting game to see who presses M1 first.
    But again, that's just me.

  • Oogi_UK
    Oogi_UK Member Posts: 4

    Yeah after once the hatch or exits are open start a 1 minute timer, after that survivors should be revealed to the killer. There are no reasons to stay after the gates are opened.

  • SnakeSound222
    SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,467

    You posted this same thread twice. Once in here, and once in balance suggestions.

    http://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/895/hatch-change-suggestions#latest

  • GolgiNea
    GolgiNea Member Posts: 157

    @SnakeSound222 said:
    You posted this same thread twice. Once in here, and once in balance suggestions.

    http://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/895/hatch-change-suggestions#latest

    I want more survivors to see this post so i posted it here as well. I've looked all over for this discussion so i could make my suggestions but i couldnt find anyone talking about it. I also see a massive difference in the positive vs. negative responses between this page & The other. I want the devs to see both sides :3

    Also: An edit to OP, I made the suggestions not for all of them to be considered at once, but adding even just one of the suggestions to the change could make it way more fun for everyone. Not just killers... It doesnt take much skill to patroll gens when its 1v1 lol.

  • Michael_Myers
    Michael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    Killer being able to close the hatch is a good thing. Maybe make it where if the killer closes the hatch, the survivor can do a gen and it'll open back up. I also like the idea that after certain period of time after the exit gates are opened, the auras of survivors are revealed to the killer. Gets pretty old waiting for survivors to leave the game. Would also stop those few from taking the game hostage and trying to force the killer to dc.

  • Totohli
    Totohli Member Posts: 41
    edited May 2018

    Because of a bug my comment got duplicated and posted 3 times here.
    I'm posting it like this so they can easily find and delete it.

    Post edited by Totohli on
  • Totohli
    Totohli Member Posts: 41
    edited May 2018

    Because of a bug my comment got duplicated and posted 3 times here.
    I'm posting it like this so they can easily find and delete it.

    Post edited by Totohli on
  • DarXide
    DarXide Member Posts: 81
    edited May 2018

    Did Survivors suddenly forget that Left Behind is a perk? Because that's a 25% speed boost you're asking for. If you don't want to sacrifice a perk slot for an end game perk that nobody has used then you really shouldn't be asking for even more currently survivor sided hatch stand off and . It will probably begin to slowly creep its way into the meta if you really want the hatch so badly.

  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    I like that last suggestion because then killer has  to make a choice. Do I camp this switch or do I patrol gens? 
  • PigNRun
    PigNRun Member Posts: 2,428
    Totohli said:

    I can understand that people really want to see a change but for me personally, the hatch isn't a problem at all. The closing mechanic seemed ok, but i can imagine survivors just hiding out somewhere, keeping the game hostage, and making it even longer instead of actually doing something

    Having 3 kills as killer is great already, having a psychological battle with another player by simply waiting, just for getting the 4th kill, it just seems so absurd for me.
    People can do what they want but i rather just roam around looking for a survivor out in the open and feeling Lucky, than creating a waiting game to see who presses M1 first.
    But again, that's just me.

    I dont see why that would be holding the game hostage. If the killer's ability (player skill, not killer's power) to track survivors is crap or did not bring any tracking perks to make up for that, its on them. And if the survivor refuses to do a generator to reopen the hatch, they are putting themselves under extreme risk of getting found.

    As for this "psychological battle", the presence of the open hatch encourages it. Hatch stand offs come to mind, which is pretty much exactly what closing the hatch is aimed at.
  • only1biggs
    only1biggs Member Posts: 1,178

    Remove it. It can't be balanced and shouldn't be in the game anyway. It's silly.

  • PeanutSmash
    PeanutSmash Member Posts: 1

    There should be another to open the hatch afterwards... I mean i've been playing for 1000 hours and I NEVER been able to do a gen alone in the game. Even if i can do one the killer would have to just go and close it again... Just remove the hatch at this point... Why having a way to get out as the last survivor if it's almost impossible to get.

  • Dwight_Confusion
    Dwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    It is simple. And this really helps SWF too. If you're SWF and you don't find the hatch before the killer... then too bad.

    If your solo, it can feel harsh... as you weren't SWF, killer was good and only got the 2/5 gens done to have a chance to get out.

    Overall this hatch shutting is an great move. Very well done. Survivors aren't entitled to get out. It now is an equal chance. Besides the killers rare find the hatch before survs anyway.

    Hatch change = great change

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  • GolgiNea
    GolgiNea Member Posts: 157

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think it's that unfair, actually. Being the last one alive doesn't warrant a free escape. If the killer finds it first, that's fair game, he beat you to it. If you manage to get another generator done, you get another shot at it.

    I think if you have survived thus far as to have the hatch as an option being the last survivor in the trial it should be not only a skill test for the survivor, but a skill test for the killer as well. Its not fun when theres no hope of escaping. Why not level the playing field a little at this point? Some of the suggestions i've seen could make it more fun for both the killers AND survivors.

  • Dwight_Confusion
    Dwight_Confusion Member Posts: 1,650

    It's fairly simple guys. Killer is able to shut down the hatch now.

    I'm so happy for this. The entitlement of the survivor just getting out basically is gone.

  • dannyfrog87
    dannyfrog87 Member Posts: 568

    @GolgiNea said:
    The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

    Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
    Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
    Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
    Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
    Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
    Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

    A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

    absolute rubbish. a guy in my game made it that far he did one and abit gens before i found him. its about time a change like this happened. so no these changes are not needed. if you cant even manage to do a gen. you dont always deserve a free win. more fun for everyone. how is it fun if the killer suddenly cant grab the survivor and just stand and look and be like oh yeah "il do nothing"

  • GolgiNea
    GolgiNea Member Posts: 157

    @dannyfrog87 said:

    @GolgiNea said:
    The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

    Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
    Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
    Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
    Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
    Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
    Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

    A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

    absolute rubbish. a guy in my game made it that far he did one and abit gens before i found him. its about time a change like this happened. so no these changes are not needed. if you cant even manage to do a gen. you dont always deserve a free win. more fun for everyone. how is it fun if the killer suddenly cant grab the survivor and just stand and look and be like oh yeah "il do nothing"

    You're only touching on what you dont like. My suggestion to have an alternate switch or key for the hatch somewhere hidden from the survivor AND killer can be a more fun equalizer for both. That way if the killer wants to camp all the gens to make it impossible to do one, then the survivor can look for the key or alternative objective. And if the killer is looking for the key it gives time for a gen. It helps make it more fun for both sides.

  • Grimmreaperme
    Grimmreaperme Member Posts: 31

    @GolgiNea said:

    @dannyfrog87 said:

    @GolgiNea said:
    The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

    Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
    Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
    Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
    Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
    Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
    Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

    A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

    absolute rubbish. a guy in my game made it that far he did one and abit gens before i found him. its about time a change like this happened. so no these changes are not needed. if you cant even manage to do a gen. you dont always deserve a free win. more fun for everyone. how is it fun if the killer suddenly cant grab the survivor and just stand and look and be like oh yeah "il do nothing"

    You're only touching on what you dont like. My suggestion to have an alternate switch or key for the hatch somewhere hidden from the survivor AND killer can be a more fun equalizer for both. That way if the killer wants to camp all the gens to make it impossible to do one, then the survivor can look for the key or alternative objective. And if the killer is looking for the key it gives time for a gen. It helps make it more fun for both sides.

    I agree there needs to be some other way to open the hatch. I have been playing with it since the PTB released on both sides and I have yet to see the survivor win that fight. If the hatch gets closed, the survivor is dead. I even did manage to complete another gen that was near enough done in order to open the hatch once in a match, but the killer just ran straight back to the hatch and closed it before I could get there seeing as he was closer...and yes I gave them ample time to have moved away from the hatch before I popped that gen.

  • JarJarBlinks
    JarJarBlinks Member Posts: 18

    It's fairly simple actually. The killer has a choice to either camp the hatch or patrol gens. When you're the last survivor left you have plenty of gens to choose from. Just do some work on all to confuse the killer. This fix is after all ment to fix the whole hatch stand off. And as it is right now most killers lose those points because survivors can just pretend to be AFK on hatch and who the hell wants to waste 30+ minutes standing on the hatch? Entitled survivors..

  • rha
    rha Member Posts: 419
    edited May 2018

    @PeanutSmash said:
    There should be another to open the hatch afterwards... I mean i've been playing for 1000 hours and I NEVER been able to do a gen alone in the game.

    I have. Low-rank game right after rank reset with three rather new teammates ... killer was hag and had Ruin. Soon as the three noticed Ruin was on they DCed. I had just gone through a number of such bad games and didn't want to lose another pip. So I cleansed the Ruin totem and did two gens all alone. The hag had Insidious and at that time 100% regression on damaged gens was already a thing which didn't help at all. What did help me though was Urban Evasion ... Problem is, the totem + two gens took me almost an hour overall, it was kind of thrilling for me to evade the killer (though not for the killer, he was raging afterwards), but I wouldn't want every game to last 1 1/2 hours because of hatch game.

    This is my main concern with the hatch change, that endgames will drag out forever. Unfortunately I'm not on PC and can't play PTB, so no 1st hand experience. But, I imagine even finding a closed hatch that makes no whoosh sound anymore can take a significant amount of time already (you have to avoid the killer after all ...). Sometimes I have to look very close even if I hear it's near. Noone will work on a gen until he knows where the hatch is, so the game could get really boring for the killer as it might be 10-15 minutes until the last survivor starts working on a gen again ... unless he has Whispers.

    Even if i can do one the killer would have to just go and close it again... Just remove the hatch at this point... Why having a way to get out as the last survivor if it's almost impossible to get.

    Was kind of my thought as well. Just as there are situations where the killer has deserved to let the last survivor not escape that easily, there are also such where a good survivor has been totally screwed over by his team which he had no control over (at least in solo queue). A fair hatch game would probably have 50/50 chances and should be designed to be over rather quickly and not drag out the game for too long.

    I won't be complaining though, if the change goes through to live, I'll probably go from solo survivor to full 4SWF, if I have full control over my team and I know everyone is about my skill level, not making any stupid plays, and always doing his best then I can probably accept that the hatch is in favor of the killer.

  • dannyfrog87
    dannyfrog87 Member Posts: 568

    @GolgiNea said:

    @dannyfrog87 said:

    @GolgiNea said:
    The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

    Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
    Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
    Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
    Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
    Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
    Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

    A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

    absolute rubbish. a guy in my game made it that far he did one and abit gens before i found him. its about time a change like this happened. so no these changes are not needed. if you cant even manage to do a gen. you dont always deserve a free win. more fun for everyone. how is it fun if the killer suddenly cant grab the survivor and just stand and look and be like oh yeah "il do nothing"

    You're only touching on what you dont like. My suggestion to have an alternate switch or key for the hatch somewhere hidden from the survivor AND killer can be a more fun equalizer for both. That way if the killer wants to camp all the gens to make it impossible to do one, then the survivor can look for the key or alternative objective. And if the killer is looking for the key it gives time for a gen. It helps make it more fun for both sides.

    only touching on what i dont like. you mean all killer players alike would not like to be just stood their unable to grab and powerless it is not me who will find your "idea" ridiculous and frustrating more than killer already is. yeah an alternate key or switch so then a key is a free escape. the switch is called do a GEN! nothing else to say. fun for all. you mean only what you want as long as you get the escape but crippling the killer yet again the entitlement is real. you survivors had hatch escapes for free long enough

  • ThePloopz
    ThePloopz Member Posts: 1,010
    edited May 2018
    JarJarBlinks said:

    It's fairly simple actually. The killer has a choice to either camp the hatch or patrol gens. When you're the last survivor left you have plenty of gens to choose from. Just do some work on all to confuse the killer. This fix is after all ment to fix the whole hatch stand off. And as it is right now most killers lose those points because survivors can just pretend to be AFK on hatch and who the hell wants to waste 30+ minutes standing on the hatch? Entitled survivors..

    This wouldn’t work. If you’re the last survivor you usually don’t have plenty of gens to choose from unless your team did 0-1 gen. If for example you have 2 gens left that means there’s 4 left on the map which is not much to choose from. You said to do some work on all the gens that’ll take a ton of time and it most likely won’t even work. In theory it sounds good yes but the killer will just kick all the gens as you’re moving from gen to gen eventually catching you. Even if you manage to pop a gen the killer is faster than you anyway so they’ll just go back and close it again then you have to do that all over. So it’s not much of a choice the killer has to make. That may not be 30+ minutes of standing on the hatch but it’ll certainly be a 30+ minute standoff of a different kind assuming nobody messes up. What’s most likely to happen though is the killer will patrol the three closest gens to the hatch, let you pop the rest and then just wait for you to try and do the last one. In this situation the survivor didn’t have a chance at all they just didn’t know it until they got to the last gen.
  • Michael_Myers
    Michael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    Hatch change is great. No more of that bs hatch standoff.

  • Saint_Judas
    Saint_Judas Member Posts: 43

    In theory I like the mechanic to close the hatch. I'll admit, the free hatch game was aggravating, you get 3 kills and then... its a hunt for some guy who's going to vanish anytime he hears you coming then randomly find the hatch and escape without you knowing, or else you end up doing the 10 minute long hatch game if you happen to find it first. So yes, I agree not having a hatch game is great, and I love the encouragement for the last remaining survivor to do the objective and have to play it cautiously. It also encourages more end-game perks, Left Behind and Sole Survivor especially receive very little use unless someone is trying to get adept Bill/Laurie. I also don't think the patrolling is a problem either, because anytime a killer is not chasing that is generally what they are doing, trying to punish them for patrolling generators just because there is only 1 person left is basically punishing them for being good enough to kill the other 3. Does that mean its very unlikely the survivor will manage to get out? Yes, especially if there are only a few gens left. But its fair, if they want it easier, they should work more to keep the team alive.

    However.

    Being able to close the hatch multiple times does pose a problem. Unless the survivor finds the hatch the first time before the killer, this means the hatch might as well not be an option. While I don't support free hatches, I also don't think a mechanic that can allow the killer to pretty much delete the hatch is fair either. While it is true that to keep it closed they would have to be relatively the same distance or closer to it then the survivor, I still find it a very unfairly punishing mechanic, especially if the survivor managed to do all the work to repair a gen only to have it shut instantly again.

    My suggestion isn't to remove the closing mechanic though or implement a new objective, but perhaps just to give the survivor a chance if they finish a gen. A couple ways to do this.

    Respawn the hatch on generator completion. Not my favorite idea but very fair, now the hatch is somewhere else and both players must find it once more

    Give the hatch a timer before it can be closed again. Not absurdly long, we are assuming the survivor might know where it is, and the killer might try to camp it, so likely under 30 seconds, perhaps 15-20. Longer then a key use but not long enough for the survivor to drag it out, if they fail to get to the hatch then the killer once more can close it My best suggestion however is to scale the time the hatch stays open with how many generators are left on the map/to be done. It is not as hard to do a 1v1 when there are 7 gens on the map vs just 3-4, if there was only 1-2 generators left before exit gates they deserve more time and kudos for managing that gen then if the team still had 3-4

  • GolgiNea
    GolgiNea Member Posts: 157

    @Saint_Judas said:
    In theory I like the mechanic to close the hatch. I'll admit, the free hatch game was aggravating, you get 3 kills and then... its a hunt for some guy who's going to vanish anytime he hears you coming then randomly find the hatch and escape without you knowing, or else you end up doing the 10 minute long hatch game if you happen to find it first. So yes, I agree not having a hatch game is great, and I love the encouragement for the last remaining survivor to do the objective and have to play it cautiously. It also encourages more end-game perks, Left Behind and Sole Survivor especially receive very little use unless someone is trying to get adept Bill/Laurie. I also don't think the patrolling is a problem either, because anytime a killer is not chasing that is generally what they are doing, trying to punish them for patrolling generators just because there is only 1 person left is basically punishing them for being good enough to kill the other 3. Does that mean its very unlikely the survivor will manage to get out? Yes, especially if there are only a few gens left. But its fair, if they want it easier, they should work more to keep the team alive.

    However.

    Being able to close the hatch multiple times does pose a problem. Unless the survivor finds the hatch the first time before the killer, this means the hatch might as well not be an option. While I don't support free hatches, I also don't think a mechanic that can allow the killer to pretty much delete the hatch is fair either. While it is true that to keep it closed they would have to be relatively the same distance or closer to it then the survivor, I still find it a very unfairly punishing mechanic, especially if the survivor managed to do all the work to repair a gen only to have it shut instantly again.

    My suggestion isn't to remove the closing mechanic though or implement a new objective, but perhaps just to give the survivor a chance if they finish a gen. A couple ways to do this.

    Respawn the hatch on generator completion. Not my favorite idea but very fair, now the hatch is somewhere else and both players must find it once more

    Give the hatch a timer before it can be closed again. Not absurdly long, we are assuming the survivor might know where it is, and the killer might try to camp it, so likely under 30 seconds, perhaps 15-20. Longer then a key use but not long enough for the survivor to drag it out, if they fail to get to the hatch then the killer once more can close it My best suggestion however is to scale the time the hatch stays open with how many generators are left on the map/to be done. It is not as hard to do a 1v1 when there are 7 gens on the map vs just 3-4, if there was only 1-2 generators left before exit gates they deserve more time and kudos for managing that gen then if the team still had 3-4

    I love these suggestions and i think these could make it more fun for both sides! Your ability to keep from being biased is great too. We need more people interested in the fun of the game for everyone rather than taking sides and putting others ideas down. :P

  • Saint_Judas
    Saint_Judas Member Posts: 43

    I think part of the problem is many people main one side or the other, and thus, understandably, want a game that is more fun for their side. Many of the new update mechanics were very punishing for survivors, especially those who maybe are not the top class, or those who were but were used to certain mechanics being in favor of them. As it was it was really entirely up to the players teamwork which side won, and if both sides were of equal skill but the survivors worked together, it was stacked in their favor everytime. How do I know this? Because almost every game I work with my team we win, or at least half of us do. When we don't work together we fall apart. As a killer I notice this too, I main Freddy and yet I'm steadily climbing ranks, and I have to ask, why? Freddy is the worst killer and I am no god, I miss my lunges and midgame myself, not to count how often I fall for stuns or let myself get genrushed doing a single chase. Yet every few rounds I win. And I notice its because they don't work together.

    And that's how its supposed to be really. The game is meant to be stacked towards the killer, and even though I main survivor, the rounds most hard-won are the most rewarding. The emblem system even encourages this, easy wins tend to not give much reward. So the fact that this mechanic challenges survivors and makes it so losing your team is a bad thing is great, even from a survivor perspective, because it encourages better team play. It encourages you to maybe go that extra mile, maybe your teammates will learn to hide better, maybe you will start bringing flashlights or bodyblocking, maybe someone starts running bond so they dont accidentally scrape the killer onto others. You are meant to adapt! But I digress

    Thank you for the compliment, really though I just love having discussions like this, getting input and viewing the problem from multiple people and angles helps us all see better the pros and cons of how it currently is and brainstorm how to make it better

  • mdg2018
    mdg2018 Member Posts: 153

    They should give an indictor to where the hatch is for the last survivor like they do with the gates

  • Peanits
    Peanits Dev Posts: 7,555

    @GolgiNea said:

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think it's that unfair, actually. Being the last one alive doesn't warrant a free escape. If the killer finds it first, that's fair game, he beat you to it. If you manage to get another generator done, you get another shot at it.

    I think if you have survived thus far as to have the hatch as an option being the last survivor in the trial it should be not only a skill test for the survivor, but a skill test for the killer as well. Its not fun when theres no hope of escaping. Why not level the playing field a little at this point? Some of the suggestions i've seen could make it more fun for both the killers AND survivors.

    Being the last survivor isn't necessarily a feat, though. If things are going poorly and I hide in a corner, I'll be the last one alive, but it doesn't mean that I should be on a level playing field with the killer. The difference is that the killer has to earn it. They don't just end up killing the other three survivors by chance. At that point, they've done tremendously well and to put them on a level field with someone who just happened to be the last to die seems unfair to me.

  • Zanfer
    Zanfer Member Posts: 647

    @GolgiNea said:
    The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

    Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
    Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
    Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
    Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
    Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
    Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

    A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

    The hatch closing right now is in a good state here is why.

    If your whole team dies before you finish all the gens, than why should you be more rewarded for escaping. It should be a challenge to escape from a killer vs only 1 survivor. As a team you can escape from the killer, but when you are the last one left it should be a challenge. As stated a couple times you have left behind which is a perk to help progress gens quicker. If the killer finds the hatch before you, why should it always be in your favor as the survivor. They finally put in a mechanic that gives and edge for the killer and rewards the killer for finding the hatch instead of finding the hatch and not securing the kill because they weren't able to close it before.

    I can see why you think it is unfair, but from the killer perspective you can say the same if the rng makes it spawn near the survivor and they would make the escape. Some people have their own opinions on the way on how to reopen it and you all can keep pumping out ideas. Personally from my take on it, I don't see why they need to change it.

  • DarKnight_Doom
    DarKnight_Doom Member Posts: 54

    I like this new hatch mechanic. Devs are trying to shake the survivors meta, if u think its very important a escape via hatch, just bring "left for dead" (Bill's perk).

  • mintchapstick
    mintchapstick Member Posts: 891

    @Peanits said:
    Being the last survivor isn't necessarily a feat, though. If things are going poorly and I hide in a corner, I'll be the last one alive, but it doesn't mean that I should be on a level playing field with the killer. The difference is that the killer has to earn it. They don't just end up killing the other three survivors by chance. At that point, they've done tremendously well and to put them on a level field with someone who just happened to be the last to die seems unfair to me.

    Yeah, I don't know about that. Most of the time when I'm the only survivor left, it's because I did gens by myself while the rest of my team hook dived and got downed by the killer after 5 second chases.

    That's not skill or doing "tremendously well," on the killers part. & it's bullshit that a survivor that did well has a .00002% chance of surviving, because they were teamed up with a bunch of blind babies that run directly into the killer or unhook each other directly in front of the killer.

  • TheSkreechingDeath
    TheSkreechingDeath Member Posts: 36
    edited June 2018

    @GolgiNea said:
    The killers ability to close the hatch is not ballanced at all. You're lucky to make it that far in a trial to begin with, let alone complete one more gen to re-open the hatch. It will be nearly impossible to get a hatch escape with the killer just patrolling the last remaining gens.

    Here are my suggestions on making it more ballanced:
    Remove killers ability to see gen auras when one survivor remains in the trial.
    Remove the ability for the killer to grab a survivor from the hatch if the survivor has found the hatch first or has re-opened the hatch.
    Give the survivor a significant speed buff to completing the gen they need to re-open the hatch.
    Hatch can only be closed by the killer once per trial.
    Alternative switch for the hatch to be re-opened that the survivor & killer have to find somewhere in the level.

    A combination of these suggestions could make the hatch change more ballanced and more fun for everyone. :)

    Yeah, that is not balanced at all.

  • TheSkreechingDeath
    TheSkreechingDeath Member Posts: 36

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think it's that unfair, actually. Being the last one alive doesn't warrant a free escape. If the killer finds it first, that's fair game, he beat you to it. If you manage to get another generator done, you get another shot at it.

    I feel like giving the survivor a speed boost and preventing the killer from grabbing you basically just means a free hatch escape for the survivor. The killer wouldn't be able to do anything to stop you. Even if he hits you once, you'll just sonic off into the hatch.

    If anything, the one thing I would change is respawning the hatch in a different location each time. Having it in the same place makes it a little too easy for the killer to get back to it first and makes it possible to camp the hatch (staying closer to the hatch than any of the remaining generators so you can always close it before the survivor can get to it).

    My exact thoughts.

  • TeambossFloze
    TeambossFloze Member Posts: 1,260

    Another Hatch discussion - just going to put my thoughts here too - Hatch closing is great, gen opening hatch is great, simple fix to make it slightly more fairer I guess is once hatch is closed its aura is revealed to survivor. Killer will already know where hatch is - survivor will have to think strategically on how they are going to escape by this point. make sure there is a purple key on the map in a chest - 100% spawn rate therefore the survivor can also go looking for the key that will be either on a dead survivors body or in an unopened chest. this would also give more benefit to have the chest aura perk.

  • CallMeRusty420
    CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think it's that unfair, actually. Being the last one alive doesn't warrant a free escape. If the killer finds it first, that's fair game, he beat you to it. If you manage to get another generator done, you get another shot at it.

    I feel like giving the survivor a speed boost and preventing the killer from grabbing you basically just means a free hatch escape for the survivor. The killer wouldn't be able to do anything to stop you. Even if he hits you once, you'll just sonic off into the hatch.

    If anything, the one thing I would change is respawning the hatch in a different location each time. Having it in the same place makes it a little too easy for the killer to get back to it first and makes it possible to camp the hatch (staying closer to the hatch than any of the remaining generators so you can always close it before the survivor can get to it).

    2 salty survivor mains disapprove of your logical feedback and downvoted without any counterplay. WEEEEAAAAAKKKKKK

  • CallMeRusty420
    CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    @JarJarBlinks said:
    It's fairly simple actually. The killer has a choice to either camp the hatch or patrol gens. When you're the last survivor left you have plenty of gens to choose from. Just do some work on all to confuse the killer. This fix is after all ment to fix the whole hatch stand off. And as it is right now most killers lose those points because survivors can just pretend to be AFK on hatch and who the hell wants to waste 30+ minutes standing on the hatch? Entitled survivors..

    Survivors are the scum of this game. Entitled, greedy, selfish, and nothing but wannabe bullies since real life hasn't been to nice to them and they watched a few Ochiduh videos. Survivors are scum.

  • CallMeRusty420
    CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    @Saint_Judas said:
    I think part of the problem is many people main one side or the other, and thus, understandably, want a game that is more fun for their side. Many of the new update mechanics were very punishing for survivors, especially those who maybe are not the top class, or those who were but were used to certain mechanics being in favor of them. As it was it was really entirely up to the players teamwork which side won, and if both sides were of equal skill but the survivors worked together, it was stacked in their favor everytime. How do I know this? Because almost every game I work with my team we win, or at least half of us do. When we don't work together we fall apart. As a killer I notice this too, I main Freddy and yet I'm steadily climbing ranks, and I have to ask, why? Freddy is the worst killer and I am no god, I miss my lunges and midgame myself, not to count how often I fall for stuns or let myself get genrushed doing a single chase. Yet every few rounds I win. And I notice its because they don't work together.

    And that's how its supposed to be really. The game is meant to be stacked towards the killer, and even though I main survivor, the rounds most hard-won are the most rewarding. The emblem system even encourages this, easy wins tend to not give much reward. So the fact that this mechanic challenges survivors and makes it so losing your team is a bad thing is great, even from a survivor perspective, because it encourages better team play. It encourages you to maybe go that extra mile, maybe your teammates will learn to hide better, maybe you will start bringing flashlights or bodyblocking, maybe someone starts running bond so they dont accidentally scrape the killer onto others. You are meant to adapt! But I digress

    Thank you for the compliment, really though I just love having discussions like this, getting input and viewing the problem from multiple people and angles helps us all see better the pros and cons of how it currently is and brainstorm how to make it better

    I'm a killer main and I've stated this kind of bias in the past. I want fair changes. I want balance. It doesn't take a genius to see that survivors are stupid OP. Especially when I can go from playing killer, outplaying the survs, and somehow they win, and I only safety pip at most, and then go to surv and win without even breaking a sweat and even decide to bully the killer because why not? The devs want me to be OP enough to bully the poor soul. I want actual balance. I am tired of the survs being the power role when the advertisement for this game falsly states killers are the power role.

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095
    edited June 2018

    My suggestion to solve the whole free escape or hostage situation:

    1. remove the hatch
    2. if there´s only 1 survivor a 5 minute timer starts. While the survivor is doing a gen or in the terror radius or chased, the timer stops.
    3. once the timer reached 0 the killer gets every 30 seconds a "ping" showing him the exact position of the survivor (like the doctors scream)
    4. gens won´t regress in this phase of the game. But perks still apply.

    Survivors can use Left Behind.

  • SuperRavenSn1per
    SuperRavenSn1per Member Posts: 34

    The issue is just because you are alive doesn't mean you deserve the hatch escape. There are so many ways to be the last survivor alive and almost none of them make you deserve a hatch escape.

  • EqMonkVeeshan
    EqMonkVeeshan Member Posts: 416

    the simple fix is this if the hatch is closed by the killer, make it so the hatch spawns in a new location once a generator is completed and it would be open then both would have to find the new location.

  • CallMeRusty420
    CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    @SuperRavenSn1per said:
    The issue is just because you are alive doesn't mean you deserve the hatch escape. There are so many ways to be the last survivor alive and almost none of them make you deserve a hatch escape.

    What he said^ I mean what idiot can't run around a piece of wood?

  • CallMeRusty420
    CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    @Peanits said:

    @GolgiNea said:

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think it's that unfair, actually. Being the last one alive doesn't warrant a free escape. If the killer finds it first, that's fair game, he beat you to it. If you manage to get another generator done, you get another shot at it.

    I think if you have survived thus far as to have the hatch as an option being the last survivor in the trial it should be not only a skill test for the survivor, but a skill test for the killer as well. Its not fun when theres no hope of escaping. Why not level the playing field a little at this point? Some of the suggestions i've seen could make it more fun for both the killers AND survivors.

    Being the last survivor isn't necessarily a feat, though. If things are going poorly and I hide in a corner, I'll be the last one alive, but it doesn't mean that I should be on a level playing field with the killer. The difference is that the killer has to earn it. They don't just end up killing the other three survivors by chance. At that point, they've done tremendously well and to put them on a level field with someone who just happened to be the last to die seems unfair to me.

    It IS unfair. I'm glad that you have a brain.

  • TeambossFloze
    TeambossFloze Member Posts: 1,260

    @CallMeRusty420 said:

    @Peanits said:

    @GolgiNea said:

    @Peanits said:
    I don't think it's that unfair, actually. Being the last one alive doesn't warrant a free escape. If the killer finds it first, that's fair game, he beat you to it. If you manage to get another generator done, you get another shot at it.

    I think if you have survived thus far as to have the hatch as an option being the last survivor in the trial it should be not only a skill test for the survivor, but a skill test for the killer as well. Its not fun when theres no hope of escaping. Why not level the playing field a little at this point? Some of the suggestions i've seen could make it more fun for both the killers AND survivors.

    Being the last survivor isn't necessarily a feat, though. If things are going poorly and I hide in a corner, I'll be the last one alive, but it doesn't mean that I should be on a level playing field with the killer. The difference is that the killer has to earn it. They don't just end up killing the other three survivors by chance. At that point, they've done tremendously well and to put them on a level field with someone who just happened to be the last to die seems unfair to me.

    It IS unfair. I'm glad that you have a brain.

    I concur with this - Just because some really crap Jake Park has decided to flitter between two cupboards repeatedly for 10 minutes whilst his team dies...don't deserve jack shiznits

  • GolgiNea
    GolgiNea Member Posts: 157

    @TeambossFloze said:
    I concur with this - Just because some really crap Jake Park has decided to flitter between two cupboards repeatedly for 10 minutes whilst his team dies...don't deserve jack shiznits

    This is not something that occurs nearly as often as you make it out to. Rank 20 to 15 its more common to happen. I usually play in groups where everyone tries to do their best. Not everyone just derps out in lockers lol.

  • mintchapstick
    mintchapstick Member Posts: 891

    @CallMeRusty420 said:
    Survivors are the scum of this game. Entitled, greedy, selfish, and nothing but wannabe bullies since real life hasn't been to nice to them and they watched a few Ochiduh videos. Survivors are scum.

    Christ, do you read your own posts before you press submit or do you just spit out this massive ball of misplaced rage and call it a post? You seriously need to take a massive step back.

    I hate this hatch situation a lot & I think it's 100% unfair and not at all balanced, but I'm not going to demonize people who play killers.

  • TeambossFloze
    TeambossFloze Member Posts: 1,260

    @GolgiNea said:

    @TeambossFloze said:
    I concur with this - Just because some really crap Jake Park has decided to flitter between two cupboards repeatedly for 10 minutes whilst his team dies...don't deserve jack shiznits

    This is not something that occurs nearly as often as you make it out to. Rank 20 to 15 its more common to happen. I usually play in groups where everyone tries to do their best. Not everyone just derps out in lockers lol.

    You are right it only happens in about every..1 in 5 games, I tend to play with new players a lot so I tend to be in rank 15-20 a lot. Maybe it is all about skills and ranks :(