Possible nerf + buff to ds.
I've give it some thought... Thought of a both buff and nerf to it.
- While in dying state, Ds timer stops.
- If someone else is hooked while ds is active. It deactivates immediately.
- Going into a locker will also deactivate DS.
-Timer is reduced 40 seconds at max.
Comments
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Terrible for solo players.
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keep it at a minute but the first two check marks are fair.
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I actually think that's a fair trade and I'd take that deal.
Although honestly the perk is so strong currently it doesn't even need the buff to it. Slugging to counter it is already very risky in itself, not to mention if they're actually running anti slug perks.
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DS isnt that strong at all. The stun time is laughable as long as you cant escape with it, cause killers wont lose you within such a short amount of time. With the change its just a dead perk when the unhooker gets downed immediately after unhook, which isnt that uncommon. Or when you get slugged so someone can be hooked before. Its too abusable for killers.
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"DS isnt that strong at all."
It's literally an S tier perk right now, hence why every rank 1 game you have at least 3 if not all 4 survivors running it.
"The stun time is laughable as long as you cant escape with it, cause killers wont lose you within such a short amount of time."
The entire point isn't to lose the killer, it's to get to another loop.
"With the change its just a dead perk when the unhooker gets downed immediately after unhook, which isnt that uncommon."
If this is actually happening then that means it was a stupid save in the first place and your team is misplaying. That isn't the perk being bad, it's your team being bad.
"Or when you get slugged so someone can be hooked before."
If it forces a slug that is already a benefit to your team because slugging is a high risk move in the first place that is very easily punished.
This perk activates almost every game and if it didn't then the killer was playing extremely "fair" and your team probably won quite hard. If you didn't then y'all either played terribly or it was a nurse.
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We play the same game, right?
Survivors getting rewarded to be farmed in front of your face and then get a free off, potentially looping until the game ends in their favor?
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I'd say keep it at 60 seconds but do the other two changes.
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I say maybe keep it at 60 seconds but if the killer downs you - you get a free unbreakable you have 60 seconds to recover During the timer you get 5 hard skill checks and you have to hit 3 out of 5. If the Timer runs out you can’t get up.
I don’t know this is just something I just thought of
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I agree with you except for the last part. DS only works in like a fifth of my games since killers always play around it, not because I "played terribly". The only time DS worked in almost every game was when the Stranger Things DLC came out and I'd play Steve.
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DS is already an S tier perk. Doesn't need any buffs.
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I'd still say that means your team is making a lot of misplays then. If they are slugging to play around it then that's a big risk play on his part that isn't getting punished.
I'm just saying that for him to not tunnel a single person and still 4k he had to be outplaying your team a lot. Especially if he was playing an M1 killer. DS activates for me in 90% of my games at rank 1.
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DS by itself isnt S-Tier. Its more about B-Tier, cause its just useful if the killers tunnels, which is sadly common playstyle. If BHVR would do something against this horendous designfailure DS wouldnt be played much at all.
The entire point of DS is to counter tunneling, what the perk isnt able to do like it is, cause killers dont let you get just because the get stunned, they just restart their tunneling. So the survivor itself doesnt gain anything, cuase its situation didnt change a bit.
the perk would be with this change just far too easy counterable. Also such a perk shouldnt be counterable, cause its already a counter to cheap playstyles, whose just make the game unfair to play.
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"DS by itself isnt S-Tier. Its more about B-Tier"
If it was B tier all rank 1's wouldn't be running it, it isn't B tier. Getting an extra life is game winning.
"cause its just useful if the killers tunnels, which is sadly common playstyle. If BHVR would do something against this horendous designfailure DS wouldnt be played much at all."
This is missing the point of WHY killers tunnel. Allowing tunneling isn't a design failure by BHVR. The reason killers tunnel for the most part is because of poor game balancing. Unless you're playing some of the few top tier killers you have to "tunnel" or "camp" to an extent to have a chance at winning. If you 4k'd without doing any of those at all with an M1 killer it's because they messed up A LOT. BHVR has made a mistake with game balance, not allowing those features.
"'The entire point of DS is to counter tunneling, what the perk isnt able to do like it is, cause killers dont let you get just because the get stunned, they just restart their tunneling."
Yes it does. It literally gives you an extra life. The point of the perk isn't to make tunneling impossible, it's to give you another chance if he is tunneling, of which it does. If he continues to chase you after the DS to another loop he is costing himself the game because that is a ton of time he's wasting just for you.
"So the survivor itself doesnt gain anything, cuase its situation didnt change a bit."
He gained an extra life where he otherwise would have been dead. If the survivors plays bad and goes down again at another loop then he's just playing terribly, but that still wasted a ton of the killers time and probably the game.
"the perk would be with this change just far too easy counterable."
Explain why you believe this. I disagree. With OP's proposed change the only time it's more counterable is if the killer literally hooked another survivor and that means you DIDN'T get tunneled. It literally means the perk did its job.
"Also such a perk shouldnt be counterable, cause its already a counter to cheap playstyles, whose just make the game unfair to play."
Unfair is simply not true. If you played killer at high rank you wouldn't agree with that statement. The killer doesn't want to tunnel but he feels forced to because of game balance.
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It's a perk that's meant to discourage killers from tunnelling survivors.
Not an anti-slugging perk.
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Removed the timer nerf.
That is all folks.
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DS is plenty strong but still healthier than old DS. It needs two nerfs though:
1.) DS SHOULD NOT activate if a survivor is pulled out of a locker. The locker shenanigans lately have been rampant and gives survivors an easy bullying tool. "Let me escape, or eat this DS" is the ultimatum a killer is dealt when a survivor running DS leaps into a locker right in front of them.
2.) DS should deactivate until next unhook if the survivor heals. It's dumb that a survivor can heal, take 2 hits, and still be able to pull off a get-out-free card; That's way too much insurance.
Post edited by Nightshade on2 -
Added the nerf where it also deactivates upon entering a locker.
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DS is fine where it is. If you get into a locker it should deactivate is bull crap nerf. If I’m getting tunneled getting in a locker is the smartest play vs being slugged for 1 Minute. DS should deactivate after someone else gets hook is another BS nerf. Someone people go down trying to save you from a camper If Play you cards right you can use DS to outplay the killer and save your teammates If killers are complaining about DS they must be either tunneling or camper. If you play the game “Fair” Or simply just counter it via slugging DS shouldn’t be an issue to you.
yeah I know sometimes EGC starts and you want your kills, and the survivor just got pull off the hook and they might have DS but sometimes you just have to eat it (depending on how close they are to the door) and you’re just not gonna get that 4k . You’re not going win every game. It’s okay for survivors to escape sometimes
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If DS is activating in 90% of your games, then that simply means you're tunneling in almost every game and should be punished for it since that is how DS was designed. If camping became meta then Kindred would be meta too since it's designed to punish that playstyle so killers would have to adapt.
Just because a killer slugs doesn't always mean they can get punished for it. They can leave a downed survivor and then down another very quickly so the other 2 survivors won't get enough time to pick them up especially when they're on the other side of the map or if the killer is running perks that slow healing, not because they made a misplay. This doesn't just occur with Nurses, Spirits, or Billies, it can occur with any killer that's chasing an injured survivor while slugging.
If DS is working against you in 90% of your games, then you probably need to change the way you play. I understand there are killers that are very underwhelming right now but tunneling shouldn't be the right way to make a killer viable in red ranks. Those killers need a buff to make them viable in general. Changing a perk because certain killers can't afford to play around it is just a band aid solution.
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"If DS is activating in 90% of your games, then that simply means you're tunneling in almost every game and should be punished for it since that is how DS was designed"
I'm talking about me using it as a survivor...
DS also procs many times when a killer isn't tunneling.
"If camping became meta then Kindred would be meta too since it's designed to punish that playstyle so killers would have to adapt."
No, because kindred doesn't counter camping.
"Just because a killer slugs doesn't always mean they can get punished for it."
They "can", whether your team does or not is up to them.
"hey can leave a downed survivor and then down another very quickly so the other 2 survivors won't get enough time to pick them up especially when they're on the other side of the map or if the killer is running perks that slow healing, not because they made a misplay."
If they're downing them that fast then you have a bad team. Most the healing slow down perks are lack luster which is also why they aren't used much.
If you get your teammates up successfully then that killer just lost A LOT of time because he didn't get a hook out of his time spent and that whole time your team had at least a 4th person slamming a gen.
"If DS is working against you in 90% of your games, then you probably need to change the way you play."
Once again, I'm talking about as the survivor, not as the killer.
"I understand there are killers that are very underwhelming right now but tunneling shouldn't be the right way to make a killer viable in red ranks."
If you don't like it blame the devs and their balancing, the killers are just working with the hand they've been dealt. They didn't choose it.
"Those killers need a buff to make them viable in general."
I agree.
"Changing a perk because certain killers can't afford to play around it is just a band aid solution."
I agree. However, if it ONLY punished tunnelers I would agree with you. Currently though, it does not. 1 minute of immunity takes it way past anti-tunnel. I get hit with DS when I'm not tunneling simply because I found the same guy again after hooking a different guy and he stuck around. Make it either last 40 seconds OR deactivate if a different person is hooked. Then it would literally be just for anti-tunneling and I would agree with you.
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60 seconds does not equal a tunnel.
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This. ALL of this.
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As a Killer (A Legion Main even) I agree. I don't want to tunnel. I don't want to camp. I don't want to even slug. But I feel I have too. I never have the good back and forth games I love. Just either I get stomped or the other team is so poor I feel bad for them. (Yes, I know I play a bad killer. It's still true that the balancing is forcing things on Killers cause they can't win otherwise)
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This too.
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In its current stage it's less of a don't tunnel perk and more of a you can't hook me for a minute perk.
Especially annoying when survivor A has the perk active and I go down survivor B and hook them and find survivor A again only to get decisive strike even though I didn't tunnel
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If you dont want the camp, suppress tbag, suppression key open trap door, suppress block the way of hook by the survivor ! And maybe we will stop killercamp ! For me, i can't loose or it's messages of insult or other (by the Winnner survivor) :)
I give no chance now i camp !
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Exactly +1
It isn't an anti-tunnel perk right now, it's a 1 minute immunity perk.
I eat DS's many times where I did not tunnel at all but just found the same guy after going for someone else first.
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Reverted timer nerf. It is now 40 seconds at max tier.
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DS is fine where it's at. Bad killers say it's "immunity perk" only when they spend half the game getting looped because they're awful in chases. Either eat it, go for someone else, or slug them. It doesn't need to changed, DS in it's current state IS the nerfed version of DS.
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This change is supposed to do it's job better at countering tunneling killers, while also making it feel more deserved by having more noticable counters.
The fact that it disables on hook is to prove you weren't tunneling a recently unhooked survivor. As this perk will make the killer reliably, and effectively apply pressure to survivors instead of going to one single survivor.
The shortened timer is to prevent the killer from being ds'd after finding the survivor and insta-downing them, only to have it count as "tunneling" and you get your ass struck down because of a lengthy immunity period. But to prevent them from waiting ds out while survivor is dying, the timer will not go down to compensate.
Disabling it after going into a locker is to prevent an exploit. Either leave them alone, (which should be assumed you did before finding them), or eat the ds. This wastes a unnecessarily ridiculous amount of time.
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no. your ideas suck. DS is fine. getting into a locker is not "an exploit".
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Why do they suck?
Unless you can counter my arguments for making the changes in the first place...
Then all you are is just a salty survivor main looking for attention.
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Killer could also camp, making you HAVE to unhook in their face (after gens of course) but otherwise you're right.
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I really like the change this disables it if the killer gets another hook. Survivors keep saying "just stop tunneling" but then dont use it as an anti tunnel perk. They use it mid chase because they have the time to.
Very cool, totally agree with that one.
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Too one-sided, play more killer. Saying a killer is bad for getting looped? I could say the survivors are bad because all we have to do as survivors is run in circles to win.
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So how about increase the time, but if the killer hooks someone, then you lose the ds???
Lets say you had 80 seconds and you lost it once the killer hooked someone would that be a good fix?
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Love this response keep up the goodies mate. Hope they make you a pilot member XD
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Thanks mate.
Noticed this perk does less than just punish tunnelers. So I thought of some new ideas to more accurately show that this perk is more meant to waste time by punishing tunnelers, instead of it only be a free health state for a minute.
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BIG OOF
I wish the Laugh react was still around :(
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Thank you. WE need feed back, not just "YOU SUCK KILLER MAIN."
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Can I just say I loved all of your posts? Very well informed and eloquent.
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They seem rather level-headed, for sure.
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Then you should've mentioned that it was working in 90% of your games as a survivor since i assumed you were just a killer main that isn't bothering to play around it, especially when most survivor mains think it's a balanced perk. Plus, you didn't even explain why it works so much for you as a survivor since most of them will agree with me that it doesn't work often, unless you're thinking in the killers perspective.
I should've said Kindred punishes campers instead of countering it.
I agree that killers can get punished for slugging anytime since I didn't factor in certain addons or perks that can counter it.
If DS is working against you when you're not tunneling then either go for someone else or wait a bit for it to go away. If you've hooked a survivor and then go for the person with DS activated, then their activation timer should've almost been up by then.
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I love the 'Deactivated on next Hook' change because it also disentivizes suicidal saves. I usually get DS'd when someone goes for a suicidal save, I down and hook his ass after a short chase, and then I run into the original survivor slinking around again trying to go for another save and then I get DS'd because I forgot who they were because everyone is a P3 Claudette.
I dunno about the change for the timer on the ground thing though because that could lead to that situation where they kobe/get unhooked as the last survivor with the exit gates open and have DS ready. That would essentially make that a totally unwinnable situation even more than it is.
My suggestions are:
DS disabled if the Killer hooks another survivor.
DS timer nerfed to 40 seconds
DS timer paused if the Survivors is in a chase.
Last one would actually make it anti-tunneling for once.
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