Why is the community jumping the gun on The Nurses changes when the PTB isn't even out yet?

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FireHazard
FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
edited October 2019 in General Discussions

introduction

Alright so, this post will focus on almost everything everyone is talking about. It might leave some things out, but it will more so be focusing on the key aspects to why a lot of people are freaking out about The Nurses "nerf" and changes.

Keep this in mind before you continue reading, The Nurses PTB has not even been released yet... So literally nobody has any first hand experience on how she'll actually play...

I draw attention to this point because everyone is automatically assuming she's "trash tier" now... despite nobody even playing her PTB, and despite a lot of people never even touching Nurse or "getting gud" with her in the first place...

Alright, lets get into this train wreck ha ha.

the Nurses base-kit changes

First off, before we can discuss everything people are drawing attention to... we need to discuss the most important thing first... We'll be focusing FIRST on the nurses base-kit changes. Below is a quote from the post that informed us all of her base-kit changes, and we'll be dissecting it...

  • Previously, the Nurse could double blink, go through fatigue, then immediately double blink again. This did not leave the Survivors with much of an opportunity to break line of sight. A recharge mechanic for blink charges has been added to limit how quickly she can perform multiple blinks. Rather than immediately receiving all her blink charges following fatigue, she will instead regain charges one at a time. Each charge takes three seconds starting from the beginning of her fatigue. This time can be reduced through add-ons.

Ok so for one, this is by far the most talked about change about the Nurse, her multiple blink charge time changes...

While yes, this is a very new take on her chase mechanics... it overall doesn't really effect her all that much. Let me explain, beforehand as the quote states The Nurse could use two blinks during a chase, go into a fatigue state, than re-use those two blinks for the next portion of the chase.

What they did, is change that 2nd part of what I said, and now has The Nurse wait 3 seconds before she can regain each blink...

Now than, all this change does... ALL it does... is change how fast a Nurse can down a Survivor... that's it... If you want a blunt explanation of what this does, it just makes the chase a bit longer than it usually is... AND it also makes it more realistic for Survivors and even the Killer. For one, The Nurse can no longer just destroy a Survivor in a chase and hook them... they'll now have to focus more on managing their blinks, as well as their limitations within the chase as well...

Nurses will have to effectively decide when to blink now, and also they'll need to focus more on obstacles they blink through, rather than falling back on a second blink and annihilating any hope a Survivors has within said chase...

They can no longer just body a Survivor around a loop, they'll either have to wait 6 seconds to regain both charges, or they'll have to decide if they can pull of a single blink hit at the loop with mind-games, etc... Keep in mind, if the Survivor is at a loop... waiting 6 seconds really doesn't mean anything at all... and if you're good with Nurse, you'll only need one blink to get them around the loop.

This is literally all this change does, it doesn't make Nurse horrible, it doesn't make her less viable, it just makes her more realistic... AND it also makes "Omega Blinks" less OP... And i'm sure most people can agree that having multiple blinks with no punishment besides a small fatigue is quite horrid for anyone to face...

NEXT, we'll add the first point above along with this next point with the add-on changes...

The Nurses add-on changes

For one, I will only be talking about some of the add-on changes... (Not all of them) as if I started talking about ALL of the add-on changes than this post would be 10 paragraphs long and nobody would read it... (It's already long enough as is...)

First off, I want to point everyone's attention to an interesting add-on change.

Jenner's Last Breath

  • After blinking, allows the Nurse to immediately blink back to her original position by pressing the Secondary Power Button. Requires a blink charge and must be triggered during the chain blink window. 

This add-on change is very interesting... it actually has the potential to be scary in a chase... Because a lot of Nurses do face Survivors that like to run back towards where they blinked... so with this add-on, you can actually pull of some "sick tricks" by blinking ahead than immediately blinking back to your original spot and hitting the Survivor when they double back to your original position...

Quite a unique add-on indeed, and I for one find it very useful against Survivors that know how to juke blinks. Of course I'm not the best Nurse (I don't main her I just recently got some what gud with her for once after months of avoid her all together because of how boring she is.) BUT! With this add-on, even a pro-nurse can pull off some seriously cool mind-games with it...

Fragile Wheeze and Dark Cincture

  • Fragile Wheeze Decreases blink recharge time by 30% (0.9 seconds). 
  • Dark Cincture Decreases blink recharge time by 20% (0.6 seconds). 

These two deserve their own spot in this section... they literally decrease the new base-kit blink charge times by 0.9 seconds, and 0.6 seconds... Making the total blink recharge time 1.5 seconds...

That almost makes each blink recharge exactly how it was Pre-change... So if you're someone who despises the blink charge times... use these two add-ons to literally make that change almost non-existent... ALMOST.

It's still going to make each blink phase take a bit longer during the chase, so The Nurse will be almost playing at a Pre-Base-kit level... Which everyone seems to be saying was "fine"

So no issues right?

Matchbox and Torn Bookmark

  • Match Box Rarity changed from Common to Ultra Rare. Removes 1 blink charge. Increases base movement speed to 4.2 m/s.
  • Torn Bookmark Rarity changed from Common to Ultra Rare. Adds 1 blink charge. The Nurse can no longer blink to locations not in her line of sight.

Now this add-on combo for the Ultra-Rares sounds very scary on paper... While yes the Torn Bookmark changes the distance a Nurse can blink because of the line of sight change... it benefits the player by adding an extra blink to counter-act the effects of Match Box, while also increasing the base movement speed to 4.2...

Now, 4.2 isn't really that fast... it's about say... a tad bit slower than Huntress by 0.2 but in theory, this sounds fairly scary as with the added benefit of walking a fair bit faster than a Survivor now a long with two blinks within her link of sight, really does make it an interesting add-on combo for the future... Of course this does make loops with high walls a bit tricky, it should make looping around these loops a bit more interest when you can snap at them around the corner and get a hit with a blink.

Of course this is in theory, as... nobody knows how it would truly go yet without testing it in the PTB.

Now, lets talk about the last two notable changes to the add-ons, as the rest of the changes are just small little niche changes or they're pre-existing changes.

"Bad Man's" Last Breath and Campbell's Last Breath

  • With "Bad Man's" Last Breath hitting a survivor with a successful blink attack grants The Nurse the Undetectable status for 16 seconds.This effect may be only triggered once every 60 seconds.
  • With Campbell's Last Breath after reappearing from a fully charged blink, The Nurse immediately blinks at half charge in the direction she is currently facing.

For once, Bad Man's Last Breath sounds interesting, it adds a tinge of stealth in a chase while The Nurse try's to say... mind-game at loops or behind walled off areas in the chase. An interest addition, but besides that nothing much more to say...

But Campbell's Last Breath is a bit different. It the add-on sounds like it gives the option to blink ahead at half a charge, but it seems to be unclear whether this is a effect that happens after every first blink now or not. What I do know is that if that's the case after every first blink, it seems like blinking to a Survivor is a lot faster than it was previously with half the cost of the 2nd blink.

If it's not automatic, that's still half a blink saved for another 2 blink assault on a Survivor...

the main point of this post though

Now, we've noted some interesting add-on changes the main issue above, so we'll continue both of those here... A lot of people are complaining that her base-kit changes and add-on changes are going to make her low-tier now. But that isn't the case at all, from what I've taken away from this, all this does is make her base-kit a lot more realistic to use and face as a Survivor while also giving The Nurse her usual ability to be a Top-Tier threat.

If 6 seconds is a lot to you in a chase with a Killer that can usually annihilate any Survivor (If you're pro with Nurse or semi-pro) than I don't know what to tell ya... that's kind of a narrow minded assumption to make on something that isn't even fully released yet.

AND, her add-on changes can even lessen the base-kit change so this entire discussion really doesn't make sense to me... You don't even need to use both add-ons to lessen the time, you can just use the primary one that reduces 0.9 seconds, and than use a fatigue reduction add-on or something... or even one of the Ultra-Rare add-ons or BETTER YET, you can use something like Jenner's Last Breath...

Let's be realistic guys, and say that this is a good thing for her add-ons. It removes Omega Blinks which has been a controversial topic for years now, and it improves upon add-ons that literally nobody bothers using. Which allows Killers to use different routes and builds in each game they play as Nurse now...

And who knows, maybe this can actually make her fun to play now. As playing a apex Killer with literally no downsides in a chase sounds pretty boring...

And besides, we still have Hill Billy which is one of the most fleshed out Killers in the game, so everyone that's saying "Now we have no Top-Tier Killers to use BHVR!!!" than what about Hill Billy? He still exists... why not use him. He's not the funnest to play but he can fit the bill as a scary threat to face while being a realistic one indeed.

These changes needed to happen guys, it really did... to be quite honest The Nurse is from a dead era of DBD where a lot of the meta was quite absurd and OP. And since that era is gone, the meta has changed and so to must some of the Killer that used to have ability's and such that countered that old absurd meta... Like Nurse.

We don't need a Killer that absurd and unorthodox to play anymore as a end all be all to facing SWFs or a coordinated team... It's time people branched out to other Killers to seek leverage and hey... you might even find one that's fun to play despite being worse than Nurse or Billy... And even if that's the main issue people have... The Nurse is still Top-Tier, she's just less ridiculous now... That doesn't mean she still can't kick some serious butt within a game.

If you were good with Nurse before, than you'll have no issue adjusting to these changes... I promise you that. And if you weren't good with her, you can still learn how to play her... nothing is really hindering you to do that.

One last thing, if you're not experienced or well versed in anything about The Nurse... aka you can't play her, than I don't see why these changes matter to anyone who mains Killer that doesn't use her... If you play without her against a coordinated team or a SWF with say Hill Billy or anyone else, why does this matter to you?

And if you're a Survivor... shouldn't this make you happy?

a small point about console nurses

Also, pro console Nurses exist guys... I don't know why nobody thinks that's the case... This change does matter to console users also, and it very much makes facing them on console a lot easier now.

Of course, if you're a pro with nurse regardless of the platform you'll adjust to these changes in no time, it just makes facing her on ANY platform less of a headache...

tl;dr

Base-kit was changed to be more realistic for Survivors and for The Nurse as a whole, her change doesn't make her any less powerful than she is already... It just makes her less of a massive threat within a chase. And while some people might argue that the only Killer that can counter SWFs or coordinated teams is gone now...

Hill-Billy still exists guys, and despite that The Nurse is still a Top-Tier Killer, her blink change just makes Survivors that're not in a SWF or coordinated team actually have a chance to face the Nurse in a chase now... Instead of being destroyed within 30 seconds of said chase...

They can actually use loops now on her and pallets, and they can use windows and think tactically when facing her now... Instead of the chase just ending instantly every time... How boring is that right?

Also, a lot of her add-on changes reflect a more healthy and generalized pick of what to bring within the game now as a Nurse. Instead of picking say... 3 add-ons now, you can pick twice as much or more... It really does improve the variety with her add-ons and I for one believe that's quite a healthy change.

And lets be honest to anyone who's reading this with daggers in their eyes, this change needed to happen... She was very ridiculous and unrealistic to face as any Survivor and her concept is from a dead meta and era of DBD that isn't around anymore... this change NEEDED to happen despite the backlash and hate towards it... Think of it this way, does facing a Omega Blink, Mori, Ruin, Pro-Nurse sound fun to you as a Survivor? Does having literally no hope of winning with a team that isn't coordinated or a SWF sound fun?

No... it doesn't, and that's coming from someone who doesn't main Survivor and knows how hard she can be to face with previous experience facing her and playing her (Not the best nurse obviously, but I can somewhat effectively use her now...)

It's quite boring, and one more thing... I don't see why anyone should care about these changes if they don't have any experience with The Nurse themselves... that's one more thing I find a bit odd.

And if you're a Survivor... shouldn't this make you happy that Omega Blink is being changed or her base-kit is different and more realistic towards you in a chase now?

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Comments

  • Chaotic_Riddle
    Chaotic_Riddle Member Posts: 1,953
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    I think people are just jumping the gun too early due to changes that were made to Legion being a bit too much, and since Nurse was next in line for a ‘nerf’, people saw the first thing they were getting and immediately started a riot.

    I honestly think we should just wait until the changes are fully set into motion before anyone can complain. BHVR will listen to the community if they’re not happy with the changes, like Ghostface for example. It just takes time and communication.

  • FishFry247
    FishFry247 Member Posts: 696
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    It always happens

  • Mochan
    Mochan Member Posts: 2,886
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    That's a lot to read, I as just gonna say people tend to have a knee jerk reactions to any big nerf, and this is a big nerf.

    But now I feel stupid after reading everything you wrote.

    Someone please end my life for being so useless and ignorant!

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,632
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    Because it always happens.

    When Freddy got reworked, he was both still weak (some said even weaker than before) and OP. Now you only hear some poor souls claiming he is OP (which he is not).

    Instead of testing, start crying out as loud as possible. Thats the DBD-Community.

  • Marcus
    Marcus Member Posts: 2,047
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    She needs a green and a yellow add-on to be almost, just almost, as good as pre nerf base kit Nurse, which wasn't broken to be begin with. Her both ultra rares will make her very loopable around jungle gyms, shack and also she won't be able to catch survivors around certain buildings like Grim Pantry or Groaning Storehouse with these 2 ultra rares equipped because she won't be able to get line of sight on them due to her slow speed. Huntress already gets looped incredibly around these buildings, and she is 110% speed ...

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    That's exactly what I thought to a T! People were too "traumatized" towards Legions massive Nerf, and as such they're now lashing out towards Nurses changes in the same way...

    Notice how nobody made these many posts until the full list of changes was added... quite odd right? Same with Legions changes, yes a fair bit of people were posting before the change... but the storm didn't come until after the full news was brought out...

    I feel the same herd mentality effect is happening here again in some way, as some people here making these posts have never even touched Nurse... or if they did, they don't know how to effectively play here... So these "complaints" are coming out of frustration more so because "The only Killer that can face SWFs and Coordinated teams" is being nerfed... Which isn't true at all.

    The change makes her more realistic to face, nobody wants to be shut down in under 30 seconds on every chase... And Nurses that know how to play her won't even notice much of a difference... seriously...

  • GrootDude
    GrootDude Member Posts: 14,110
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    This was a nice read, I agree with your post, overall I think she’ll be fine.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    The main point I was making was the people are making conclusions towards something that isn't even in a PTB yet...

    And if you're a Nurse that is considered a "pro" by people you've faced... than I have no doubt in my mind they'll adjust to these changes just fine.

    Its quite shocking that Survivors are also complaining about the change... shouldn't they be the ones that're cheering about it? And some Killers that have never played her are also making posts about the change... why?

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Its quite a mouthful lol, but the point is that these changes don't really matter to a Nurse who can effectively play her already...

    Nothing is different besides the practicality towards a chase against her, and how realistic that chase is now. Being downed in under 30 seconds... isn't realistic... especially when this can be done multiple times.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Seriously, if that's true than it's quite odd to have that mind-set...

    Don't you think?

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    edited October 2019
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    The base-kit change doesn't even make any difference to anyone that can play her... seriously. If say... you could down someone constantly in under 30 seconds, than an addition 6 seconds or even 10 or 20 doesn't really matter now does it?

    And those add-ons to decrease the charge time will just make her a lot more similar to pre-patch... which is considered fine... so why does it matter if you use both slots for it if the base-kit was still strong? Even so, you can still just use one for one slot than a fatigue add-on for the other.

    As for the Ultra-Rares, they promote a more open map which Nurse is the strongest on, so it's not a total destruction towards how she can be played. And if the Nurse can see you around a corner with enough distance to blink than hit, than I don't see a issue.

    Of course if this is Lerys or Hawkins with the massive amount of walls, than yes I can agree it would make her quite hard to manage in those areas... But even in some of the rooms she'll have the ability to pass over loops or walls due to the scaffolding not being a solid wall, and same with the pallets blocking one path.

    Still though, I can agree some-what if the Ultra Rare concern, that's why the PTB can address this issue when it's released... and they'll decide to edit them if its too hard to manage.

  • DBDbuildsYT
    DBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042
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    THAT'S NOT EVEN TRUE!!!

    even in the best case scenario (addons) she is 2 seconds slower than base nurse who is already a fair and balanced killer.

    2 seconds (in the best scenario) slower than the weakest current nurse. This is a HUGE DEAL, you lose map pressure, you lose distance.

    It is a TOTAL nerf, not a slight change

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    If you can down a Survivor with Nurse in under 30 seconds, than what does an extra 6 or 10 or 20 really matter?

    If you were pro with Nurse, you can adjust to these issues easily... even some Nurses can down a Survivor with one blink after the first 2...

    Lets be honest, this change needed to happen. Do you know how un-realistic it is to face a nurse at a loop? or facing a Omega Blink, Mori, Ruin Nurse is...

    I know you could say "Than change the add-ons not the base-kit if the omega-blink was an issue...." Yes, but if you focus on the core of why Survivors have a hard time with her in the first place... you can easily tell it's because of how she throws any conventional chase method out the window...

    What even was her strong add-on combo besides multiple blinks? The Distance ones and fatigue combos? You can still do that combo...

    Same with if you double down on reduced blink charges, than you can be almost like pre-patch... Which a lot of people seem to agree was fine with base-kit.

    If the base-kit was strong, than why does it matter it was tweaked a bit?

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    May I ask what was fair about downing any Survivor under 30 seconds...

    and making loops pointless? This isn't me being mean or anything, this is a genuine question.

  • DBDbuildsYT
    DBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042
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    Mate do the math and see what happens to her movement speed and chase potential by losing 3.5 seconds each set of blinks.

    AT BEST (add ons) you are 2 seconds slower for each set of blinks than current base nurse.

    This is a BIG NERF, and you won't get away saying it is not.

    I am ok in you having a different opinion but this nerf is huge on nurse, and they did promise slight tweaks.

    This is legion all over again

  • DBDbuildsYT
    DBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042
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    if you don't see how being 2 seconds slower AT BEST than base nurse each time you blink to be a problem, then I don't know what to tell you.

    Multiply this by 10 sets of blinks and see how much of an old camel spit this new nurse is.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    You realize the blink charge time starts at the beginning of her fatigue right? And it's 3 seconds for each blink recharge not 3.5... So that's 1.5 seconds for each blink charge with both add-ons. So since the default fatigue is like... 2 seconds? that's just 1 second at the start of the next blink charge, than 3 more for the next...

    I'm also fine with your opinion being different, but I clearly don't agree that this is the next Legion of nerfs... and I don't agree that this is a giant nerf... when it isn't...

    The chase potential is still there if you're in a open area or not... IF you're in a open area than you'll still most likely get downed anyways despite this change...

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,632
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    I mean, it looks like that. And you cannot deny that not everyone is writing such a long, analytical post like you. But I feel that sometimes a little bit of testing would be good, before jumping on conclusions, but it is how it is.

    LIke I said, the same happened with Freddy. Some people thought he would still be weak, some others said that he is OP. He is neither, he is basically in a very good spot (in fact, if every Killer released would be around Freddy-Level, I would be quite happy).

    And I can ensure you that after 3 matches on the PTB, people would still claim that Nurse is OP. While others, who played 1 match and did not get a 4K, would say that she is Legion-Level.

    In the end, only after a few weeks on the Live Server, a real judgment about Nurse can be made.

  • DBDbuildsYT
    DBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042
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    No it's 6 seconds of cooldown -2.5 seconds of fatigue = 3.5 seconds cool down for both blinks after the fatigue

    with the best addons (becaue we need more killer addons dependent) it is 2 seconds of extra cooldown.

    this is a massive problem.

    As for your other question, if you were facing a base nurse who could down you in 30 seconds every time you were facing someone WAY better than you were. Base nurse was counterable. Also this is a 4 vs 1 game, chases cannot be balanced in 1 vs 1, that's why most killer are trash.

  • DBDbuildsYT
    DBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042
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    no mate you opened a post about a killer you don't even know the numbers of her power and you still want to be right?

    I told you before, run the math for a set of 10 blinks and you will see that this new pile of garbage of a nurse loses more than 30 seconds of looking at the ground at 0.96 m/s and floating at 3.85 m/s.

    If you can't see how bad is to lose 30 seconds every 10 blinks, I don't know what to tell you.

    Hint: it is about 40% of a gen

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    The 2nd question is an example. If you're a pro Nurse you'll have no issue closing chases under a minute at least... 30 seconds sounded more realistic if a Nurse has their sights on you within a chase.

    If we're talking a fully healed Survivor, it'll be more like 45 seconds for both hits, even if the Survivor trys doubling back or whatever... If the Nurse knows what to do, they'll get you regardless.

    So lets see here, if its 6 seconds got both blinks -2.5 seconds for the fatigue which by default eastes time anyways... that's 3.5 seconds like you said... that's 0.5 seconds (Which is nothing) for the first blink which any SERIOUSLY good Nurse should be able to use to down you, and if not and they need 2 blinks they can wait 3 seconds, which if you're following them while waiting for the 2nd blink the gap isn't that big...

    Now with both add-on reductions which one is 0.9 seconds and the other is 0.6 seconds... that's 1.5 seconds of reduction time. WHICH in turn, makes the first blink recharge almost instant like Pre-Patch, while the second one only takes 2 seconds for the 2nd blink.

    This. Literally. Doesn't. Make. It. Bad. At. All. Seriously how does that make it bad at all, you're waiting either 3.5 seconds for the the 1st blink to instantly finish and the 2nd to finish in 3 seconds, OR BETTER YET literally 2 seconds with default fatigue time for the 2nd blink to finish.

    Idk about you but 2 seconds is literally nothing... You could count that and than dust the Survivor (If you're pro, i'm talking about pro not a average Nurse) If we're talking about a average Nurse, you'll probably need to do this 2 more times or 1 more times, rather than just once when the first initially hit is made.

    And if you don't make the first hit, than its by default going to take longer obviously... I'm talking about a follow up attack, not if you miss the attack. If you miss the attack, the default time will take longer and if you're average it'll take a few tries.

    At worse, if you're a average Nurse the time to down the Survivor would probably take 1 minute and 30 seconds, and thats being generous it could take 2 minutes if the Survivor is good... If the Survivor is terrible it could take 1, or 1 minute and 15 seconds... (If you failed the first initial hit... if you didn't that time is reduced greatly)

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    What numbers of her power, you're talking about 3.5 seconds or 2 seconds for 1 blink with the add-on reduction...

    Seriously... if you're going off of math as an average in a game that's entirely unpredictable than we'll never meet ends meet in this conversation between us both.

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,226
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    Is it just me or do many people only focus on the chase part? All those people seem to forget that blinking is her primary means of movement.

    Doing solo blinks for map travel will still not be viable in comparison to double, so yeah.

    3.5 seconds of being slower than survs added to her basic movement rotation. Is quite harsh.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    I can accept that, even I have fallen pray to making a decisive and long post about discussing the discussions discussing the issue...

    Perhaps it's just the fear of who's next to be nerfed or changed, idk. I couldn't give you a full answer.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    But its still do-able no? I can agree the change does make chases a bit longer, but I disagree that the change is massive like some people believe it is...

    With time, and adjustment... I believe anyone who played Nurse in a serious way or not before can adjust to these changes... It's just going to take a bit more forward thinking between each move... as if one move failed there was no serious counter to it... It was just 2 seconds of fatigue and the Nurse would have a decent chance to hit you on the next try.

  • White_Owl
    White_Owl Member Posts: 3,786
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    Because the community is mostly a bunch of overreacting kids.

    The devs even announced that there was some minor change to the base power and still people act as if it was out of blue, ignoring all the good addons introduced that can lift the Nurse from the pit of boredom she was in. The truth is that people wanted their overpowered killer for easy wins and now they're angry they'll have to think and manage a bit their blinks.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
    edited October 2019
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    I like to think of it differently, I believe its more so about the fear of what happened to Legion, but also because most people believed a coordinated team or a SWFs could only be beat by The Nurse and only The Nurse... That isn't true at all, even the lowest Tier of Killers can beat a coordinated team or SWFs...

    Of course Top-Tier makes it easier, i'm just saying that it's still do-able... Seriously... even LeatherFace can be a Red Rank SWFs if you know what to do.

  • xllxENIGMAxllx
    xllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923
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    Have you seen good survivor against good nurses they still manage to rush gen. With a 8s cooldown he will be worse (8s= 2s fatigue + 3s for each blinks to reload) this is a huge deal if it were 1s or 1,5s people will complain much less.

    Don't underestimate survivors even if nurse was game breaking with her add-ons good survivors still manage to do gens.

  • White_Owl
    White_Owl Member Posts: 3,786
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    I don't think so, this kind of reaction happens since a lot before the Legion rework.

  • Mochan
    Mochan Member Posts: 2,886
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    Some people just have Stockholm Syndrome I guess? I'm happy with the Nurse Changes.

    I can Verse Nurse fine (unless they're "pro") but it's certainly no picnic.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Perhaps eventually all Killers should be more rounded together if that makes sense... Because this was a long time coming for her add-ons and even base-kit if you really think about it.

    Of course she'll be a bit worse, I just don't agree that she'll be useless. Also, its 6 seconds and the opposite applies with fatigue as when the fatigue begins, so does the first blinks charge, so the first blink is more so... 1 seconds after fatigue and than the other is 3 making it a total of 4 (And you can still follow the Survivor btw...)

    Now with the 1.5 reduction from the add-ons, it makes it even faster and closer to pre-patch... making the change kind of a moot point.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Idk, I wish that wasn't the case if that's the main case. But all fingers point to that being the case of why people are so afraid of change, especially to the Top-Tier Killer...

    But anyone can admit this was a long time coming to her add-ons, and somewhat to her base-kit.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Exactly, it's more of a middle ground now, rather than it being a loss from the get go...

  • ShadowRain
    ShadowRain Member Posts: 607
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    They lied.. they said there would be “small changes” they destroyed her. Now she’s just another killer who will get bullied against good survivors lmao

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    If you don't mind me asking, do you care to elaborate on why you personally believe this isn't a small change? Is it because of the blink recharge and how the base time takes 6 seconds? (More so 4 since the first blink recharges when the Nurse is in fatigue, and base fatigue takes like 2 seconds so its more so 4 seconds as a whole since fatigue is naturally already a thing that Nurse has)

    Or is it something else? The add-ons? What? I'd like to know... i'm not trying to be mean at all or come off as sarcastic.

  • xllxENIGMAxllx
    xllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923
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    Nurse move at 3.85 m/s (96,25%) which is slower than survivor. While i agree the fact the add-ons was broken and most of them were unused/useless. Base kit was fine if a cooldown with 1s or 1,5s per blinks were added i wouldn't mind. but three second per blinks maybe i've been used playing addonless which deny my point.

    I just don't like killer that are add-on reliant to be good. I mean look at Freddy he is good without add-on but clearly not OP his add-on only make him stronger.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    I noticed a lot of Nurses play without add-ons anyways, so I don't see why it would matter if they used reduction add-ons in their place...

    Besides that though, yes she moves slower than a Survivor but she can still move and monitor where they go while 3.5 seconds go by (Or 4 or whatever) and 4 seconds mind sound like a lot of time, but if you're following them while counting down to 4 seconds it's not really that big of a deal...

    You can still blink far to catch up, and you'll have 2 blinks so... If they evade behind loops and walls, you'll have to think more tactically rather than previously where it was more trial and error with little downside...

    Which... to me sounds a lot better. And like with Freddy, the same can apply to Nurse no? Her add-ons to reduce the charge time can make her a lot stronger since the charge time would reduce that time heavily... (if 1.5 seconds is heavy, idk at this point ha ha.)

  • NMCKE
    NMCKE Member Posts: 8,243
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    Great points, Nurse isn't dead at all — she still ignores pallets and vaults.


    I honestly cannot wait for the PTB because it's where we get a hands on experience! :)

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Ah yes... E X P E R I E N C E !

    I can't wait tbh, than we can all put some issues or such to rest. We won't really know until its out!

  • xllxENIGMAxllx
    xllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923
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    Will i'm a good nurse i want to see how great/god nurse will play her. I might watch zubat play her we never know she might be better in a sense.

    The legion rework is still in my memory but nurse even with these change will still be a good killer i think. We will know in a few hours.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Exactly, we won't know till the PTB is out. Than we'll know for sure...

  • ShadowRain
    ShadowRain Member Posts: 607
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    Long story short, they changed all her add ons to a point where not a single one has a useful side to it. Just downgrading. Why would I want to hinder myself more just to get bloodpoints or move faster to become like a m1 killer. That makes no sense. Then ontop of that why change her basekit? Why does she need a cooldown when she already gets fatigued? Why is her walk speed still slower than survivors? They couldn’t even increase her walk speed lol, I understand her extra blink add ons and omegablink was OP but this is ridiculous. Nurse and Spirit are the only killers who don’t get bullied by good survivors but now she’s bad, Spirit is probably next to get destroyed. I’m a rank 1 survivor main and this has even saddened me. Nurse is my favourite killer to go against but now they should just throw her in the bin at this point. I won’t go all out right now as its just the ptb but if these changes make it live I’m so done. Nurse is what makes this game fun.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    A lot would argue that because of how she was structured with her add-ons and power, that she was a headache to face and boring to play (Personally she was boring to play because winning with no downside is kinda... eh...)

    I'm surprised someone actually liked the challenge when facing here, really.

    On a interesting note, like I said the blink recharge isn't really that drastic to how she can still effectively down Survivors... it just takes a bit longer. While she's worse than she was before, it was a very needed nerf to counter-act the zero counter play she had when facing her around loops, windows, etc...

    A lot of the add-ons they changed make them more useful and overall can be used now and be effective... Jenner's Last Breath gives the Nurse the ability to double back on a previous location (optional when equipped) and can fool Survivors into running towards her previous blink location to only just blink back to it with ease...

    The other add-ons are interesting, especially the Ultra-Rare combo, but I understand behind tall walls and places like Lerys it could be a issue... But if you have 4.2 movement speed you can somewhat circumvent this...

    I'd like to get into the others, but... you get my point (I think, idk)

  • ShadowRain
    ShadowRain Member Posts: 607
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    I’m actually a survivor main rank 1, I just feel bad for killers. Nurse was really fun to go against.. I’d always rather see all the other killers getting buffed than seeing some get nerfed.

  • Fieryaura
    Fieryaura Member Posts: 47
    edited October 2019
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    I love nurse (I play in red rank both side) and I think a nerf of her addons is okay, but I'm disappointed for the nerf of her base kit..

    BTW I'll try the ptb before complain

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    Well, I like to think of it like this. This nerf was a long time coming to her power... ESPECIALLY her add-ons... So this was expected personally.

    I also didn't learn her because as a noob when I first started to play, I heard of how OP she was and saw this first hand through videos and even got to experience it at Green Ranks back when I was just a weeeeeeee baby noob.

    That's why when I decided to be a Killer main (This was like instantly decided cause Myers was in this game...) I vowed to never learn her until I was able to effectively use EVERY Killer. That's why a few months ago I started to learn her and got to be pretty decent with her, being a average Nurse at best... Previously before I got to learn her, I couldn't down a single Survivor...

    Now I can get pretty decent results.

  • FriendlyGuy
    FriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768
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    And that's what people don't seem to understand. Even an experienced nurse player can't catch up to an (warning! very hilarous!) running survivor with the new nurse. You need two addons to make her working at all.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    We'll just have to wait and see for the final results when the PTB rolls out... whenever that is today.

  • FireHazard
    FireHazard Member Posts: 7,314
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    You don't really need the add-ons it just benefits you and makes it similar to pre-basekit...

    People who place Nurse a lot don't even use add-ons with her, cause why would you? So even if you do decide to use add-ons to reduce the time, it doesn't really change much from what you previously did.

    And even if you don't, 4 seconds to get 2 blinks back (You get 2 seconds of recharge because a default fatigue takes 2-3 seconds and it charges during the beginning of the fatigue) Isn't that bad.