Why is the Wraith not completely invisible?
2 years into dead by daylight, I always want to ask this question, and I wish the dev could answer it.
Why are you suppose to see a invisible killer when he is "invisible"?
The problem with wraith right now is that his power doesn't help him in chase,
once he get out of power he is a powerless mouse 1 killer,
so most of your gameplay comes down to catching survivor off guard
Yet, his power already have two things that allow survivor to be prepared:
- you ring your bell
- you move slowly when getting out of cloaked
But dev think it is ok for survivor to see you from a distance when you are "invisible",
and go to safe pallets/window BEFORE you even ring your bell?
Why???
Comments
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It's a good question. He's literally just a bad Ghostface.
Imo his stealth needs to actually be invisible, clapper at base and his movespeed while stealthed needs to be much higher.
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He comes from a time where they thought it was balanced.
Why he's still like this is probably because he technically already had his "rework", though Peanits' definition of rework pretty much denies he ever had one.
His Add-ons are actually in a pretty good spot right now, and there's certain things he actually does very well, like his super lunge, or his Power lacking a cooldown, unlike most new Killers ever since Spirit came out.
His rework was his Add-ons, and they gave him faster movement speed when coming out of his cloak.
I'd LOVE to see this guy get some major focus from the balance team, but preferably no rework, though I'd understand if other weak Killers need attention first.
Post edited by Rizzo on15 -
Yeah his shimmer seriously needs to be removed. It almost defeats his whole purpose.
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That could be it. I figured this wouldn't be as bad seeing he is still extremely loud so you would be able to generally tell where he was at and as he's reappearing you would also know where he's at to run the right direction. With Freddy he wasn't loud and aside from some glimmers during transition you were running but had no idea where he was.
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Always felt like having this would be SUPER helpful. Right now he's not exactly stealthy for a stealth killer, lol. When they made ghostface, they realized that telling every survivor around that he was using his power via sound cue was dumb... For some reason, Wraith's bell wasn't immediately thought of at this moment.
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Balance reasons.
A term often people forget and just want to blame the other side for.
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I'm all for a Wraith rework to get rid of it! A Legion rework that keeps the rushdown... AND a Clown rework cause he needs help!
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What about the fact that a flashlight can stun him for 4 straight seconds or something like that? haha...
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I think the Idea of the shimmer happening closer like 16 meters is nice also making changing some of the numbers around decloacking and such. If you want ni bell there are addons, he can also block people in corners and block pallets and windows. Also most stealth killers suffer on blood lodge it's a big wide open map that needs something in the middle of it.
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I'm blaming survivors
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Wraith:
- Completely invisible
- Spine chill doesnt work on his cloak form
- The bell sound should be discern about range without addon.
Just ONE of these become his base + increase cloaking speed. He will be much better.
Trapper:
- Able to carry 2 traps with base. Still start with 1 trap.
- Self untrap should not be high RNG, sometime 1 try, sometime never success. It should be randomly 3-5 try. Addon cause harder to self untrap should increase the number to 7-9 try
I dont know about Clown, hes very annoying to me because he has 115 speed with slow down ability. Being chased by him always in short time.
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for balance reasons, what else? I already can't see wraith at all when he's cloaked and can tell u it's really frustrating not knowing if you're being followed or not. the only way I can know is if he's literally 2 feet behind me and I can hear his footsteps, at which point I have no time to do anything
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@LegionMain343 Go right ahead. You aren't the only one.
I am a Wraith main and I don't find a problem with this.
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You just need to play against more wraiths cause its easy to see him before he gets anywhere near that close unless the heavy fog addon is used. He already announces his presense with the bell unless he has a silenced clapper add on used.
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Because believe it or not, Killers are not supposed to be stealthier than Survivors.
This game was originally supposed to be a game of hide and seek. Survivors were supposed to hide from killers. When survivors are found killers chase them down and they die, because Killers are supposed to be better at the Chase.
Somewhere along the line that changed. Somewhere along the line, Survivors learned how to run the Chase better than Killers. And even with all the balance adjustments, the best Survivors can still run the Killer around a long time.
Strangely now the design and nature of the game has evolved to killers being:
- Stealthier than Survivors
- Killers being better at finding Survivors, and
- Survivors surviving by running the Killer around.
Wraith just hasn't quite caught up to that yet, and it seems BHVR still resists the idea of making Killers too stealthy. And with good reason.
Freddy was the ultimate symbol of this discrepancy in BHVR's design. Freddy was a killer who was:
- 100% stealthy
- 100% able to find survivors
- He was also the easiest Killer for a skilled Survivor to run around.
As you can see, BHVR reworked Freddy because this was not an ideal game state. The problem is that new survivors without skills cannot compete against a killer like this at all, whereas a skilled survivor can utterly destroy him.
So the Devs are trying to change the design the game has evolved into into something else that is more balanced for everyone.
Turning Wraith completely invisible takes a step back towards Old Freddy, and the Devs obviously do not want that.
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no bud. I *literally* can't see him. this is what my game looks like. there isn't a shimmer for me.
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Looks like your graphics are on the lowest possible settinv of course you cant see him if thst is the case. His shimmer should be visible from meduim up.
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If you are hacking your game it's nobody's fault but your own that you can't see him.
Everybody else can see Wraith just fine. His biggest benefit is his lack of Terror Radius and Stain, and his camping ability (he is 100% invisible when camping a hook or some other item) but if he is moving around he is very easy to see.
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That's not even lowest possible setting. You can only reach that level of non-fidelity by editing the INI files to lower the render resolution to the extreme.
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yes I know. I was just pointing out i already play vs wraith without a shimmer. it isn't fun not knowing if you're being followed or not because the killer is cloaked and more than 2 feet away
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I'm not blaming anyone. im saying this wouldn't be a healthy change to wraith. I know this from expierence.
also "hacking" btw LOL
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I feel it would be a bit too strong when paired with the Coxcombed Clapper. Honestly a better buff would be too let him uncloak faster, so survivors can't simply run too a pallet unless they have Sprint Burst.
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Just here to read why more people just want survivors on hook the second the match starts
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Because he would be like spirit except he could see you. The outplays would be insane especially since you cannot maneuver to a safe place for the split second he comes out of cloak. If you could hear his footsteps that tells you nothing about direction. Even knowing what to look for with his current visibility Wraith still surprises experienced players. Relying on hearing his approach does not work for everyone. Not everyone uses headphones and generators are really loud. Players with hearing impairments already play with the odds stacked against them and would probably just DC against totally invisible Wraith.Total invisibility would be too strong.
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I think it's ok for wraith to be seen . I'd rather have more movement speed while cloacked without addons (at least 6.0 m/sec)
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Because complete invisibilty removes any sort of counterplay, especially if it doesn't have something to counterbalance it. Just think about how many complaints there are about the Prayer Beads Bracelets.
You guys shouldn't think about invisibility when playing Wraith, but more about camouflage: if you walk in the open you can still be seen, you need to use the environment (trees, walls etc) to sneak up on people.
I agree though that some maps with huge empty spaces (like Bloodlodge) screw him too much, and the shimmer should not be visibile beyond a certain distance (I think 32 meters would work)
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I have a solution just don't use him if you don't like him. If you want to go 100% invisible use spirit.
you guys are ruining dead by daylight
Not every killer / Survivor perks needs a damn rework.
If wraith gets this 100% invisibility they're also going to Nerf him as well probably giving him a timer for invisibility basically making him like spirit.
I think wraith is balanced and I enjoying using him personally.
You guys also ruined Freddy he had a gimmick that he could put you to sleep and see your aura and invisible to awake people. Nothing was wrong with Freddy. Old Freddy with like Freddy Krueger from the movies. Now Freddy is just a Trapper and a clown. I used to main Freddy because I liked his originality
You guys are going to make wraith become a spirit and ruin his gimmick
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Your solution is a bad one and it used to apply to a lot of killers before they were changed. "Don't like, don't play" just brushes off bad balance and cruddy design.
Old Freddy was so boring to face for me. He's way more versatile and unpredictable now and it seems he actually has more control of the dream state. A killer shouldn't be left in such a garbage state as the Wraith where their power is almost useless. A killer shouldn't be a "gimmick." They should be viable.
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I would argue that a Killer with the power to literally turn invisible should be stealthier than a Survivor.
One thing to note about Wraith vs. Freddy is that Freddy also had the power to slow down the game immensely against lower-skilled players, which I would imagine was the more frustrating element about Freddy for those players than the fact that he was invisible (even though he had a blatant tell when he was in distance and, like Wraith, could not do anything to those Survivors until he alerted them to their presence).
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As a Wraith main I never had a problem with the shimmer , he doesn't need to be completely invisible as a buff he needs windstorm yellow or green at base kit since without these you are pretty much screwed
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We've been going back and forth about Wraith's shimmer since the Dark Days.
I think making him totally invisible while cloaked past a certain radius is probably the best compromise.
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I don't mind if he doesn't get to be totally invisible while cloaked, btw.
It'll become broken very quickly in conjunction with Exposed Perks, with Sprint Burst being your only option at some Generators.
But being able to see him in stealth mode while being very far away is just unnecessarily detrimental.
It's another reason i actually like corn fields, especially Rotten Fields, keeping tabs on Wraith becomes way harder.
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you complain you cant see wraith yet your DBD looks like its being played on a PS1
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Because the only killers are nurse and spirit, the others are just survivors on a bad mood
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This comment should be ignored, if you think wraith is balanced your name should be part of the rank 21 concept
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Because he'd be absolutely hated at lower ranks. I would be in favor of reducing, or eliminating the sound from his wailing bell. Also if they made his shimmer harder to see. Or maybe make it intermittent.
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jus a prank bro o3o
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Old Freddy was not "okay."
He was a deeply polarizing killer that was the epitome of bad design for this game.
You basically had a killer who was 100% Invisible, 100% could see a survivor at all times and yet was the easiest killer to run for a loop because of his "put to sleep" mechanic. This basically meant that scrubs and new players stood 0% chance of beating him while expert players could run him around all game with impunity.
Terrible killer that absolutely dominated in low ranks but was absolutely worthless in high ranks.
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sure, a killer that turns invisible should in theory be stealthier than survivors... but again this is just bad game design. This is supposed to be a cat-and-mouse hide and seek game.
If you make a killer much stealthier and impossible to detect for survivors, survivors cannot possible hide from him. Thus you must compensate by making him much easier to beat in a chase. Otherwise he becomes a broken killer and nobody wants that. So what compensating nerf do you want to give Wraith if you turn him 100% invisible?
And again invisible killers are bad for the game. Freddy is the prime example of that.
And no, Freddy had the power to slow the game down, but the most frustrating part of fighting Freddy for a low-skill player is his invisibility (impossible to hide from) and when he finds you it is now impossible to get away from him (because he can see you no matter where you go).
This led to tunneling behavior from Freddy or he can just toy with the survivors if they didn't have selfcare to wakeup. And the dreamworld aura also allowed for easy slug builds, Freddy didn't even need to bother with BBQ or Deerstalker, which was even more unfun.
No low-skilled player cared about his slow-down builds. They would die easily long before the game slowed down. I speak from experience.
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That's crazy OP.
It would literally be impossible to lose him in a chase, you are basically just counting the seconds until you die. The moment you put any distance he just cloaks and he is right behind you.
And we don't need another BBQ Billy in the game. Billy is bad enough. Wraith is now a BBQ Billy who is a lot harder to see and is 100% maneuverable?
No, just no.
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Fair on the Freddy thing, but as far as the hide-and-seek thing, I would argue that while that may have been the intent on paper, in practice the game has ended up being freeze tag more than anything.
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He has that in the game. It's purple Windstorm+Purple Uncloak add-on and wraith is fairly weak. The game was never about hide and seek. It was always about two things. Completing generators before the killer kills you and Stalling the killer out and you do that by using pallets and looping. Juking and Stealth are alternative/secondary methods to wasting a killers time. Baring Spirit and Nurse, you don't even need to learn juking or stealth to win. Any killer can win a chase when he finds a survivor, the question is not whether he can win the chase, the question is at what cost killers pays for attempting to win that chase. In many ways, Wraith is like worse old Freddy without wallhack or speed slowdown or perfect stealth. Freddy used to have long sleep transition time in which he couldn't attack survivors and Wraith has uncloak time in which he also can't attack survivors. Wraith's power is like a "do nothing power" until you use some add-on that gives some random effects to cloaking and those often shape his m1 playstyle.
If he had invisibility, he might be more successful killer at playing hit and run play-style as survivors would maybe fear him a bit more, than again it is wraith. He is sort of pushover most of the time.
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Bow is it balance when he is already weak because as it is
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Believe it or not, I'm actually a rank 5. I'm now a Wraith Main I used to be a Freddy Main. My point is the concept. The Wraith concept is that he cloaks granting him nearly invisibility cloaking doesn't mean invisibility it's kind of like camouflage. I liked Freddy back then because he actually was like Freddy in the movie you can't really hide from your nightmares and I'm arguing that the concept from old Freddy makes sense and I'm also saying Wraith concept is that he cloaks which makes him still spottable it again if you don't like him don't use him no one's pointing a gun at you saying use Wraith.
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You're misunderstanding my point you're talkin power-wise I'm talking concept wise. Freddy's old concept was you can't hide from your nightmares but you could run and when you were awake then you could hide which makes sense. And that was the Freddy Krueger like in the movies. This new Freddy is nothing like the movie. I'm complaining about the concept and how you guys are ruining it. my point is if you don't like the killer don't use them no one is forcing you to use them however I liked old Freddy and I like wraith and I'm a rank 5 and I like the challenge.
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Counter play issues
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He is very weak, that is the only truth. I love playing wraith, and while i do 4k with him, he is addon reliant and to say he is balanced is pretty wrong
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And while that is true, now imagine a game of freeze tag with an invisible "it"?
That is not any kind of game I would like to play.
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This would be a game of freeze tag where the invisible "it" has to play the vuvuzela before being allowed to tag anyone.
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Concept-wise is fine, but the design was bad. Again, it needs to be balanced accordingly. If you want invisible killers you can't run away from (Freddy) there needs to be some compensating design that allows you to win against them without being looper gods.
In the end Freddy's power was just not ag ood fit for this game the way it was. It needed to be reworked. Could have reworked it closer to the original concept? They could have, this is a failing on BHVR's part.
Wraith's concept is fine -- but again invisible killer needs a balancing factor because fighting an invisible stalker is no fun. Just making him 100% invisible while moving and calling it a day is not going to work.
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