Killer is unplayable without ruin
There really is no winning without it unless the survivors are wasting time. You find 1 guy on a gen and hit him once if you are lucky. Now to actually down him you'll be forced to chase him through 8+ pallets while the others are popping gens.
If you give up the chase to pressure gens then the cycle just repeats. You hit someone once and then have to chase them. Meanwhile 1st guy is off hook and healed if you were even fortunate enough to catch him.
How do you win as a killer against smart survivors? It really seems you can't unless they make a series of mistakes that let you win.
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Playable? Absolutely.
Winnable? It's harder but doable.
But you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence, as a killer you're reliant on survivors making mistakes. Additionally your mistakes are punished far too hard. That's why Ruin is so strong, because it gives you more time right at the start. It also means survs will be more likely to run around, giving you a chance to catch sight of them.
If you find yourself one hitting people a lot and leaving them to chase someone else, try sloppy butcher+thanatophobia.
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I don't know if I'd say unplayable... but it's significantly less fun and more frustrating.
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Welcome to one of many reasons why I'm slowly giving up on dbd.
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Honestly, try watching Fungoose, he's an educational streamer and 4ks most of his killer matches with no add-ons or Ruin and voices his decision making so you understand his thought process.
He helped me a lot personally with understanding how to play killer efficiently without Ruin or add-ons, especially lower tier killers who absolutely need you to be efficient when you play this way.
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Watch guides srsly
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Its doable with time and experience. You just cant approach junglegyms strait on, you need to mindgame a little. Little fakeouts that suggest your reacting to a vault at a TL wall, but then...not. This is one reason why I cant stand simple pallet loops that are COMPLETELY visible. Currently watching a pig main streamer that doesnt use ANY slowdown perks and completely decimating, just due to simple movements around jungle gyms and such.
Heres an example game, but I definitely suggest checking this guy out on twitch if you havent before.
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The things you need to learn without ruin vs with ruin are different. If you truely wish to play without ruin I would suggest looking into Corrupt Intervention and Pop Goes the Weasel. The difference between having Ruin and Not having Ruin is noticable, but once you learn to play without it you'll become a unstoppable monsters that steam rolls.
Time Investment is the biggest difference and learning when to proceed and when to disengage will be critical to success.
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Props to those killers (apart from nurse and spirit) who can win against a genrushing-looping SWF team without ruin (like 1% or less of the killers)
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If you define winning by a 4k, yes they can. If you define winning with pipping, no the cannot.
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Not true at all.
I can more often than not get a merciless with Freddy without Ruin for example.
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I dont agree. If u are playing high mobility killer with BB&CHILI and pop up it's easy with out ruin
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Currently watching a Pig main do just fine while running Brutal str, enduring, monitor and whispers... no addons atm. After watching this man do well from basic movements...
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i pretty much never use ruin and i am doing pretty well i would say...
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Survivors are predictable (usually).
A few tips to make you life easier without Ruin.
Don't chase into time wasting loops. If a survivor heads toward a place like the Iron Works window for instance let them go. It's going to eat too much time chasing in that loop. If you are Trapper or Hag trap that friggin' window literally as the trial starts. (Also trap your shack on every match you'd be surprised how many players still fall for these even in red ranks after 3 years lol)
NEVER respect pallets ALWAYS swing through, no joke 75% of survivors drop them too late. I'll gladly eat stun for even a chance of hitting you.
There are other ways to slow down gens. Thanataphobia is a beast on killers like Plague, Billy, GhostFace, and Legion who always have multiple injured survivors. Sloppy Butcher is a ######### and can really slowdown survivors. Either take forever to heal or you get much shorter chases since they chose not to heal. Pop Goes The Weasel sets gen progression back by a ton.
Freddy can scare people off of gens just by pretending to teleport to it.
Demogorgon's tunnels are great combined with Pop Goes The Weasel. You can hook someone then regress a gen that was miles away. (It's also good for getting Devour Hope Stacks and Make Your Choice triggers.
Post edited by Theoretical_Heart on1 -
It took me time to get rid of the bad habits ruin let me create honestly.
I do both regularly with killers that are bottom tier without ruin or bbq.
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What if you don't use any slowdown perks? Because i do, and i never rank up past rank 8
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Killer is 100% playable without Ruin. Ruin just makes it a lot easier.
If you can't win without Ruin... sorry but "Git Gud."
I have never played a killer match with Ruin. Didn't even have it unlocked until like a month ago. I still almost always get from 2-4 kills, unless I'm just letting them go (which I also do depends on my mood -- ironically sometimes I let survivors go and they still die because no one saves them or they DC).
If you are having trouble without Ruin build for the endgame instead. For example, you can try a gen defense strategy. 3-Gen works well in lower ranks for instance and survivors tend to crumble and don't know how to win when you do this. You can also bring the NoEd or Remember Me, gets them a lot.
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That just isn't true mate. You don't need ruin.
Just play without it for a while. You'll see.
I'm not saying it doesn't help, but it certainly not something you need to bring to every game
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Survivor likewise has perks that you absolutely must have. It's how the game is.
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Not at all.
Killers is easily playable without ruin. How well you can do is down to your own personal skill and knowledge and for strong players it becomes all too easy much like with some survivor perks.
It's why many perks are seen as a crutches as they raise people's expectations and without them they can't do half as well.
A perk is never needed and when it starts to become that way I personally want to remove it from my build as I feel it makes me a worse player overall.
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That's why I cycle perks a lot. I do enjoy specific builds for each killer though.
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This. I only use Ruin when I don't feel like having a sweat.
I've played so long without it now, it can feel like over kill when I do use it.
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the only killer I need ruin on is legion it's pretty much impossible to play/win on some maps without it
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Never thought we would agree on something tbh lol
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Lol, look at that.
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Don't rely on RUIN! 9 out of 10 Ruin gets destroyed in the 1st minute and you may not even have found someone.
Get Corrupt Intervention for the game start, if you struggle.
PGTW + DL + Thana can slow down very well... Though you need to hook and hit them. Add SB to the mix and have some fun.
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It is still playable without Ruin. Sometimes Ruin is just a waste because of it’s spawn location.
You can’t really only rely on survivors making mistakes you have to make sure YOU are not making mistakes either because if they aren’t making mistakes one of you is.
You will not win against a well coordinated team if you aren’t out smarting them. I don’t care if you have 5 ruin hexes lying around.
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So you just said someone is wrong if they play a certain killer and play certain perks.
yikes
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That percentage is higher considering how many ignorant players think a killer is viable for 4k-ing a bunch of low rank unskilled players.
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@ApeOfMazor While playing without Ruin is extremely frustrating, it's not impossible to succeed without it, even at higher ranks with lower tier killers. You'll struggle really hard against optimal survivors, but let's be honest, high rank optimal survivors either manage to ignore Ruin entirely or they find it in the first 10 seconds.
I mostly play Pig, Demogorgon and Legion. I have succeeded multiple times at purple and even early red ranks with these killers perkless. You need to understand your own flaws as a player, as well as the flaws of your killer choice, and work around them. Personally, my biggest issue was that I never slugged for a long time. I knew it would be a good idea, but I wasn't really good at gen patrol so I always found myself slugging for nothing and losing my survivor, so I'd just bite the bullet and go for the hook.
If you struggle with patrolling like I do, and don't know what gens to check on and such, I actually highly recommend Surveillance or Discordance. It's helped me tons on no-Ruin builds. If you're looking for other slow down tools, there's Thanataphobia and Sloppy Butcher. Pop Goes the Weasel can also help a lot but you've got to make it count. Surge is alright, but its use is limited.
I understand your frustration, as I've been in the same boat as you, thinking Ruin is a necessity, but it's really not. I actually believe it's an overrated perk. It's not SEVERELY overrated, as when it works, it does work really well, but the higher you get in the ranks, the less it ever works. Your only bet is really good gen patrol, slugging and trying to end chases as fast as possible.
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It definitely can help a lot, but idk, i never use it and it's a bit of a challenge to get high up in ranks as Wraith, but nothing too hard.
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It would be cool If ruin came with adept killer
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But not against top tier survivors. Usually in such rounds arr one or two weaklings.
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I mostly play Killer without Ruin...NOED is the way to go.
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I think a lot of people don't play killer against high level survivors or don't understand the core mechanical problem of this game that leads to Ruin feeling necessary in many instances. There are too many safe map resources for experienced survivors to utilize early in games relative to generator repair times.
You can "pressure gens", but there's nothing preventing the other survivors from just working on the other gens. You're either relying on survivors not understanding the lack of danger they're in or hoping they over-extend and get caught in a bad spot. Either way, it's not the generator pressure that wins in that scenario, it's the survivor making a mistake.
Your other option is to engage in a proper chase. If they're a veteran survivor, you're going through a minimum of two pallets to get them down if you play it perfectly. Then you have to hook them and find another survivor.
My point: 80 seconds at the start of a game isn't that long by the time you find someone, chase, down, and hook them. You are so far behind the 8 ball if you have 1 hook with 3 gens to go. There is absolutely no reason that 2 gens shouldn't be popping on the first chase without Ruin. Survivors simply aren't doing gens otherwise. Or the survivor in chase didn't know what a pallet was. Either way, it's on the survivors to dictate the pace of the game when Ruin isn't in play.
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I agree that there needs to be something other than RUIN which can be turned off without any real threat to slow down the game.
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"sorry but get good" sorry "professional" FeNg, but i disagree, once you hit non noob survivors it's gen rush city and not fun
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No it doesn't.
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same, "once you hit non noob survivors it's gen rush city and not fun"
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I prefer perks that slow down the game, yes it's annoying as surv but it helps, ruin is eh, i run small game and have done a lot so i will find it and boom done so soon, relying on anything is never good.
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I haven't used BBQ&C or Ruin outside of farming in matches for well over a year honestly. When I farm I use those both because it means I can make the game take longer aka more BP.
On PC I play exclusively killer at red ranks except on rank reset. I'm sure at some point I have dealt with sweaty SWF or survivors in general. They just dont matter enough for me to care.
On PS4 I play killer at any rank and am not nearly as try hard. I mostly enjoy survivor on PS4 since almost all my friends play PS4 version of DBD.
Top tier or low tier survivors I have put my time in on learning without those 2 perks. Yes I failed a lot of the time at the start, but I decided I personally didnt want to be limited in my builds. So over the course of time I realized both of these perks created bad habits as a killer. Realizing this I basically started from scratch and relearned killer.
As long as you dont Tilt easily playing without Ruin is honestly very easy. If you Tilt easy and get annoyed over petty stuff. Then honestly its possible, but Ruin might be a better alternative. Nowadays if I use Ruin it feels borderline abusive because it turns it pretty easy.
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LOL
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I play without Ruin. I have to use Corrupt + Thrilling +Surge + STBFL to make up for it though, so there is still something very wrong.
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Against really good teams i don't get a use out of ruin. But most times there's one potato that can't hit ruin skillchecks so it's worth it after all. Teams that hit greats without problems, you can't win against em with non viable killers.
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Try Discordance over STBFL that's my ideal build I just haven't got it in a non top tier killer yet.
I promise you can do it man with practice, experience, and time, but it is not a easy feat. How long it might take you might be 2 weeks or 3 years, but if you keep trying you can eventually.
I dropped Ruin for several reasons build variation was the biggest. Though the fact ruin is not useful against the survivors I wanted it against was another big factor. So my thought process was "if ruin is useless against who I want it against what's next?"
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I need to agree. Pop goes the weasel is a good option and also thantophobia, corrupt intervention, dying light, thrilling tremors and all BUT gens pop so fast and these perks can be useless at some point. Some killers aren't Spirit, Nurse, Freddy and Billy to get gen control and maps like autoheaven when we got 3 gens close to each other, man... It's terrible. Not to mention toolboxes. You got one chace = 2 gens. I wish this game had more balance about gen speed but it will never be fixed.
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I agree that gens will fly by without ruin, but just play towards that. Win that first chase and get that hook, this now takes two off gens assuming someone will rescue. And focus on the gens that are close together when applying pressure, don't let them have the last few gens all spread around or you hooped.
Run builds you find fun, and make It work.
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I’ve never used Ruin and I get 4ks all the time, I don’t know what you’re talking about, sometimes I use PGTW but only sometimes.
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Dropped it on Nurse too, but only because it's Nurse. On Trapper? Never.
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Trapper requires set up I use Corrupt Intervention instead on him. Honestly I dont think I ever used ruin on him now that I think about it.
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