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Buff Judith's tombstone
Hi, I asked the devs for it, but according to killers who played and tried Judith's tombstone, what do you think guys about it?
I mean, it's actually a pink add-on (supposed to be stronger than purple ones) and as a Michael Main, I'd say that Judith's tombstone is underpower because of the movement speed reduction.
Why should it be considered as a pink add on if it's, according to me, weaker than tombstone piece. This ont doesn't reduct the movement speed. The only real thing is that drains a lot of evil within gauge.
The fact that judith's tombstone reducts movement speed for all the game makes it completely useless, and gives a lot of loop possibilities to survivors.
As a Michael Main, I can say I get rarely under a 4 kill, but when I go with Judith's tombstone, i get looped all the game, I try to raise My evil within while I'm too slow to catch up survivors, then everybody escapes (sometimes I mori one)
What do you all think?
(For the devs: this post has been created twice, the other one is in the category THE SHAPE, but I actually think it didn't belong there. You can delete it since I can't myself, thank you)
Comments
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NO! NO! NO!
Judith's Tombstone has the capability to instantly remove ALL SURVIVORS from the game!! And the first thought that came to you is to BUFF IT?!
Are you out of your diddly darn mind?!
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Judith's Tombstone is terrible, though. The slowdown it gives makes Myers a joke. Unless you are going for the Evil Incarnate achievement or Burger King Myers meme build, no good reason to use it over Tombstone Piece.
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Dude, buff Judith's tombstone? Really? Heh.. that thing is already super OP.
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See above post.
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The ability to kill everyone easily (no dying state required), I mean literally remove them from match..
That thing should have drawbacks or everyone is going to DC in a such unfair match.
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It is fair to say that it should have drawbacks, but the drawbacks it currently has render it terrible. It is one of Myers's worst add-ons.
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Guys, you don't understand my point... Judith's tombstone needs a lot more evil within to reach tier 3 PLUS decreases killer's movement speed moderately. That makes it almost useless because all of the match, Michael is very slow so he can't reach easily survivor, making him easy to loop all the game.
NOW, the point is: tombstone piece is supposed to be a weaker add-on because it is purple.
BUT actually, tombstone piece DOESN'T slow killer's movement but gives him the opportunity to insta kill survivors. The only thing that is weaker to judith's tombstone is that when you kill a survivor, it DRAINS A LOT EVIL WITHIN GAUGE.
BECAUSE Michael is slowed all the game with Judith's tombstone AND his eveil within lasts for only 60 seconds, IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO INSTA KILL ONE SURVIVOR unless the survivor is really bad and doesn't know how to loop.
THE POINT IS: Judith's tombstone is supposed to be stronger than tombstone piece because of its price and colour, BUT IS ACTUALLY NOT.
JUDITH'S TOMBSTONE IS USELESS AND MAKES MICHAEL A JOKE FOR LOOPERS
TOMBSTONE PIECE IS WAY STRONGER.
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I agree. It should be buffed and nerfed in another way. And people arguing it «instantly» removes survivors from the game have never played with it. It takes nearly the entire game to pop it once. And at wich point you can still loop for ages, be stuck in an animation to Get downed instead of killed or you know a locker... Myers ultimate killing weakness...
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Suggestion for how to buff Judith's Tombstone:
A large and heavy granite tombstone stolen from Mt. Sinclair cemetery, belonging to Judith Myers.
- Unlocks the ability to kill healthy or injured Survivors with Evil Within III.
- Disables the ability to stalk with Evil Within III.
- Considerably increases the amount of evil required to reach Evil Within III.
- Killing a Survivor moderately decreases movement speed until you return to Evil Within II.
- Killing a Survivor moderately decreases Evil Within III duration until you return to Evil Within II.
Now compared to the old Judith's Tombstone:
1) You don't receive the speed penalty until you kill someone with the Tombstone.
2) The speed penalty only lasts until you revert back to EW2.
3) You time in EW3 shortens if you kill someone with Tombstone, both to shorten the time you spend slowed down and to make it still challenging to chaingrab Survivors.
So it is still maaaybe possible to chain kill Survivors (unlike with current Tombstone, where even with Fragrant Tuft, it is still laughably difficult to pull it off), but you gotta still legitimately work to make it happen. If you can get 2+ kills off a single duration of EW3, by god you've earned it. Even compared to Tombstone Piece, you don't lose as much evil when going back to EW2.
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This is exactly what I mean, people arguing it instantly removes survivors have never played with it PLUS must be survivors main. And I think they don't do the real difference between judith's tombstone and Tombstone piece. I am a Michael Main and I think I can say I am pretty good with him: I rarely kill less than 3 people, and I can truly say I abuse much more easily more survivors in a game with the piece than Judith's.
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Pretty much. Even when I run "only" infinite EW3 and J Myers memorial (The fastest stalking addon Myers has that affects all survivors) it takes an extremely long time to hit EW3. I can't imagine BOTH Judith's Tombstone + tuft of hair. (Two addons that tremendously increase stalk required without any faster stalk addons)
To hit EW3 you basically need to nom every last bite of evil out of all 4 survivors (Well, more like 3 survivors and a half IIRC)
By the time you hit EW3 the game's usually over and you NEED Play With Your Food to have a reasonable movement speed.
I think Judith's (and Tombstone Piece) needs a buff. A common issue is the inability to tombstone people on the ground or in lockers.
One idea I might have read (or came up with.) is to make Tombstones more like Memento Moris. Option A: they stay as they are, but if you have hooked a survivor once and have Tombstone and are in EW3, you can Mori them on the ground so lockers are no longer a safe zone. It'll work once but after that, Myers shows no mercy. One could even play normally, hook everyone once, and THEN pop EW3 + Tombstone.
Option B: Make them MUCH more like Momento Mori's. You can't tombstone people period (Even while standing) until the survivor has been hooked once, but once you have hooked them you can tombstone them normally or on the ground, effectively turning the tombstone into a more versatile Momento Mori.
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That makes it almost useless because all of the match, Michael is very slow so he can't reach easily survivor, making him easy to loop all the game.
The fact is that when using that addon you're not supposed to reach and chase survivors, but only to stalk for most of the time. That's Michael's thing in the movies and the addon reflects that.
Also with Play With Your Food (which you should have when using Judith's Tombstone), that addon can easily destroy a whole team. Buffing it would be insane.
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I think Michael's power by default reflects Michael's "thing" in the movies.
Also, PWYF isn't enough to make Tombstone worth using. You still have to spend oodles of time stalking while Survivors are free to genrush, and once you do get to EW3, you are still unlikely to get more than one person with a single EW3. You are still better off just using Tombstone Piece.
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"Survivors are free to genrush"
Indeed, doing gen is the new meta for a successful game.
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The other person is suggesting using PWYF to make sure you can offset the speed debuff of Judith's Tombstone. If Tombstone Myers is actually trying to conserve his PWYF tokens for EW3, he isn't hurting people, so those Survivors are not under any pressure until EW3 kicks in (which now also takes longer thanks to Tombstone tremendously increasing the stalk needed to reach EW3). Hence, genrush.
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Personally I think the add-on would be fine if the movement speed didn't get reduced because of it.
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When we playing as survivors realize that myers is taking too long to charge it can be considered as pressure to do the obvious, there's is no genrush.
Only survivors who want to do gens and others playing around trying to be funny, too scared and waiting for someone screw up, doing dull totems.. you know the drill.
Don't forget about ruin, discordance and other things to slow the pace.
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By pressure, I mean defending the gens. Myers is not doing that if he is holding PWYF stacks for Tombstone (which would be noticable because Myers moving like molasses would indicate Tombstone, and Myers deliberately losing chases to the Obsession would indicate Play With Your Food), so Survivors are able to maximize gen efficiency knowing that Myers isn't doing anything to stop them.
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Well excuse me but according to me, in my opinion, I don't like PWYF at all, so I think that if you need it to play well with Judith's tombstone, well it is clearly useless and underpower.
And, to do a good game, excuse me again but Michael has not to stalk all the time, with every add on that increases Evil within recquired, I never just stalk, I put pressure on survivor a big amount of time in evil within 2, otherwise, you let survivors do gens easily.
A good Myers doesn't prioritise his evil within 3 the whole game when he plays with a add on that increases the amount of EW needed.
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You forget how survivors freak out if they spot Myers stalking them, especially if he is taking a lot of time tiering up, which can be used to scare them off gens. My point is that it's doable with some strategy, and JT being the strongest addon in the game it's supposed to be hard to use it.
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######### this discussion. All buffing it would do is add more toxicity to the game lol. Also, I don't think ultra rares or pinks are supposed to be better than purples. It just adds a new or different playstyle.
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I feel like carrying a tombstone around would slow you down, but I think it's really really too slow. There needs to be a better trade off with it.
Also, all the people that are just yelling about not to do it, can you explain why with valid reasons instead of just screaming? Thank you. I'm not being rude, I'm just saying constructive feedback is better.
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I mean, they're not gonna just let you stalk them forever. A good Survivor knows how to break line of sight from him. That is already an issue for him normally, and "tremendously" increasing the time he needs to reach EW3 only makes that issue way worse.
I get what you are trying to say about JT being "the strongest add-on", but it's not. Its downsides make it a bad add-on. You want an actually usable version of this add-on, you look at Tombstone Piece.
Ultra Rares should be better than a lower-rarity version that does the same thing. Otherwise, why is it a higher rarity if it does the same thing but worse?
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It's worse but at the same time it isn't, you can potentially kill all 4 survivors with Judith's tombstone in one sitting. You can't do that with the piece, now we all know that is highly unlikely to happen since he's so slow but it's the potential for 4 kills in a single sitting that gives it the ultra rare. It's potentially more powerful but not efficient. Very high risk high reward. In general though I think pink add ons aren't exactly meant to be all powerful, they grant different playstyle. Look at Nurse's new add ons. That's the route their going with it, I think.
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No, it's much worse. On paper, you can kill all four in one sitting. In practice, you are lucky if you get even one. The risk is so high you would rather just use Tombstone Piece which has a much smaller risk for what will likely end up being the same reward.
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Well yes, that's my point. In that aspect it's more powerful, just not likely or efficient. You are better off using the piece, I don't think this myers add on is at the top of the devs priority list though. If they do tamper with Tombstone, they are likely gonna rework it to cater for a new/different playstyle opposed to giving it a flat buff. But who knows.
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It definitely needs a buff. In pretty much any situation I could kill survivors faster just by hooking them than I ever possibly could by stalking them for 48 years and hoping they don't jump into a locker as I follow them at the speed of a speeding snail.
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It doesn't matter that the best-case scenario is better if:
1) That best-case scenario is squarely in "Magical Christmas Land" territory
2) It is much worse in just about every other scenario.
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Someone said higher
Well excuse me but are you a 20 ranked? Because I am in red ranks and survivors don't "Freak Out", the see me, ok, they just go away, staying out of sight. A red ranked survivor will understand quickly that if it takes me a lot of time to tier up to EW3, there is something strange. Plus, while I play as survivor and I go against a Myers who walks abnormally slowly (because yes, when you are high ranked, you notice these kind of things) and takes an eternity to stalk people, you know he runs Judith's tombstone, so then, what you actually do to "survive" is to hide in a locker instead of letting him mori you.
The point is: baby ranked survivors are affraid of it because they don't know how to counter it, and run like headless chicken to run from michael instead of taking time to stay out of sight, so they don't want a buff on it because they "think" it is already OP
High ranked survivors: Notice quickly a Judith's tombstone is runned and know how to counter it extremely easily. Plus, gives opportunities of hardcore looping and gen rushing.
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Well excuse me but are you a 20 ranked?
Not gonna bother to answer...
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Lol, so that answers me well
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Um. No. I think Judith's is fine. You're forgetting what it's commonly put together with: Tuft of Hair. Which makes it last forever.
The speed penalty can easily be overcome by PWYF, and you can keep those tokens easy since killing them isn't a hostile action.
If anything, I think there should be a buff to how you can mori. Like you can mori them on the floor as well. That would get rid of it's one weakness: Lockers.
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Last Forever? Is that a bug? Or maybe youre exaggerating it so much?
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Nope. Not a bug. It works. Try it out. It takes forever to reach T3... but once it does you have it for the rest of the match. Since both take a long time to get to T3 on their own... it makes it take a while, and you'll be slower 'cause of Tombstone.
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I think to balance Judith's, instead of greatly reduced mobility give it higher Terror Radius on EW2 and EW3 and just a little bit reduce mobility.
I dont know why many hate Michael, because i think Spirit is more of a headache but fun and challenging to play against and it gives me the thrill. escaping,surprises and running away from it is fun.
Challenge and Thrill is the fun factor of the game removing it is just like killing the game.
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Tombstone is a niche add-on that only works with specific builds. It's not meant to make the game easier like tuft of hair, but change your entire approach. If you don't like Tombstone, Tombstone Piece has basically the same effect with little to no downside.
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An add-on that lets you mori a healthy survivor does not need a buff...
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You didn't read any of the answers above didn't you?
We want constructive feedback here, not just a yes or a no.
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LOL you need a tuff of hair to make it useful along with that u need a lot of stalk which means survivors can finish 5 gens right when you unlock tier 3. The drawback with a movement speed reduction isn't needed as you need to fully stalk about 3 to 3.5 survivors to get tier 3 with both red addons
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Play With Your Food essentially nullifies the movement speed debuff. J's Tombstone is fine where it is.
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It allows you to instantly kill people without a single hit in the game.
It lets you stalk some unaware person on a gen, then mori ANYONE of your choosing by just getting behind them and triggering t3 right behind them.
The add on is barely ok as it is, just because it takes a while to stalk, it should not be something that people want to run every other match.
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Do you know how PWYF works?
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Here is my constructive feedback: nerf it and tombstone piece with it.
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I actually don't see an issue with it since PWYF gives you 15% bonus speed if you find your obsession, which can make the difference and then some.
There's also Burger King Myers loadout which would be ruined by your suggestion (Scratched Mirror/Tombstone for 85% movement speed, but with wallhacks, oh joy!).
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Lockers, Vaulting and survivor actions are its' weaknesses. You can't mori them mid vault, or if they're on a totem or gen, or in a locker. It's got its' counters.
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Hardly constructive feedback. You don't say how or why it needs the nerf. It's already niche.
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When you find your obsession, you have to initiate a chase and then lose the chase to gain one stack (5% extra speed at Tier 3 of PWYF). There will be a cooldown to getting the next stack. Doing this three times will give you 15% extra speed. This will make you impossible to lose in a chase since you are very much faster than survivors.
The only way you lose tokens is by a hostile action, which includes: any kind of killer attack. However, Tombstone Moris aren't considered hostile actions, so you will never lose a token as long as they keep being mori'd.
This means a permanent 15% movement for the entire game. I don't know how much movement speed is taken from you by the Tombstone addon, but PWYF clearly goes over that and gives you more.
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It should not be able to mori a survivor, especially when that survivor can be healthy or even injured.
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Why not? It takes a ridiculous amount of stalking to achieve even with both addons. It makes you slower, making PWYF essential and forcing the killer to have three perks. One of which will probably be ruin. Then they can't pick hook based perks like BBQ or Pop because they won't need them, which leaves them with few options.
When you mori the second to last survivor, you're not guaranteed the 4k, since it's likely the last survivor will camp the hatch too.
That doesn't get me started on the small amount of BPs and Pips you get (a similar problem for Scratched Mirror too, but nobody complains about that one).
That also doesn't talk about its' direct counters:
- Vaults: Can't mori you here.
- Pallets: Can't mori during a stun.
- Lockers: He can't mori you on the ground or out of a locker.
- Survivor actions (although only for a limited time. This includes cleansing/gens/doors): Same reason as the last 3.
In other words:
- Limited build options that make sense.
- Wastes a lot of time stalking.
- Most Gens will get done, if not all
- No guaranteed kills
- Fewer points
- Few if not any pips.
- Has lots of counters.
And you think it's ok to nerf it because it has the possibility of killing every survivor?
Yeah no. It's fine where it is.
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It's only paired with Tuft because it's the only way to MAYBE get the Evil Incarnate achievement. And even then, Judith's Tombstone + Fragrant Tuft is still a terrible combo because by the time you reach EW3, the Exit Gates are probably already powered. Unless you are playing against full-on potatoes or get extremely lucky, Judith's + Tuft + PWYF isn't worth it outside of the achievement hunt.
Nerf one of Myers's weakest add-ons?
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