Slugging counter?
So killer mains will immediately disagree with me about this and that's fine im prepared for the backlash but hear me out. I played this game since beta. ive watched and been dismayed at how this game has transformed. I always agreed hatch should be able to be shut. Thats fine. egc being completely killer centric was not what i was promised but that's not the reason for this post. The problem i have with our current state is a bastardization of a game mechanice to the end that its almost a regular occurance and after a recent heated discussion with my last killer ive come up with a solution. Slugging is a problem in this game whether intentional or not it is. Devs have to have seen it by now and know that its existing and thats not ok. Survivors dont expect to escape every match no. But without a chance to escape from the start what's the point? As one by one survivors are killed your chances dwindle and being the last survivor is hard enough during egc but to be downed and left down is ridiculous you are being forced to stay in a game and not able to do anything. Thats not right or ok. If devs wanna punish people for dcing then give survivors a way out of a match where they are being slugged or and this is the part killers are going to have a problem with cause it is a way of building a mechanic into the game to counter slugging. Give survivors base kits unbreakable. remove it as a perk and just build it into all survivors. I bet killers would think alot harder about slugging at that point wouldnt they? The last killer was like well just run unbreakable. My argument is this... why should a survivor main have to spend a perk slot to counter a game mechanic being abused by killer mains? You dont have to run a perk to slug (yes you could run deer stalker to make it easier but with the sound improvements and stuff anymore killers dont even need it) so why should survivors being penalized for a game mechanic killers are abusing. Unless you are trying to intentionally ruin the game for survivors? Again this is not me being mad at dying I die enough during egc or against good killer mains (who by the way dont need to slug). Im upset that i have to sit on the ground for 3 - 5 minutes and either get picked up only for me to get slugged again and left on the ground or for the killer to kill the other person since we're not allowed to DC. Fix this or risk losing the already dwindling survivor base.
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Ez solution: Give Survivors the option to die once they've bled out a certain amount (probably at least half, maybe 2/3?)
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Why is slugging such a problem for you? If killer slugs you since beginning of the game then 2 other survivors can work on gennie and one can just come to M1 tap you for healing if you recovered. Killer is slugging 3 survivors at the beginning of the game? Well, maybe survivors were just BAD to get into situation like that? It was at last 3 hits (up to 6 for killers without instadowns), good survivors should on average loop the killer for quite a while with it.
He slugs in 2vs1 so other guy doesn't get the hatch? Well if he is camping the slug then you can pretty much just find the hatch. Or you can camp the gate that is futher away. You have lots of plays. And if he is looking for you then you can pick up slug and both of you have 2nd chance to win.
You see this is complex game. It's not easy to make it 100% balanced. Also is there even any fix for the slugging? You want unbreakable in base kit? You want to bleed out faster? It's really easy to point out that something is wrong, but how about coming up with a solution instead? I personally don't really see it.
While talking about killer abusing game mechanics - here is something in return:
- Why does killer have to spend perk slot (hex: ruin) to fight against what survivors abuse the most - gen rushing with op toolboxes,
- Why does killer have to be punished for survovr making mistake at loop (trying to loop 1 too many times) and miss their attack due to DH?
- Why does killer have to be abused by balanced landing in haddonfield?
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I get where you're coming from. unfortunately there are justifiable reasons to slug someone, and having the ability to pick yourself up all the time would create more problems for survivors.
If I down someone and there is someones else in a close proximity, I'll leave the slug and begin a chase. however, if I knew doing this would allow the slug to get up and run away, I'd probably hook and proxy camp and tunnel the first survivor every time.
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Slugging is rarely useful in a match. You can't just start the game and decide "I'll just slug and never hook until I've downed everyone", it just won't work. By slugging this way the killer is hurting themselves more than the survivors as they aren't taking any hook stages off the survivors.
Slugging can usually only be used as a way to clutch the game. You see the last 2 survivors, down one and chase the other. Sure it sucks for the survivor to have to wait until the killer downs their friend but I don't really see and easy fix. If they implemented the husk system and allowed the 2nd last survivor to disconnect if they're downed without a penalty.
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Use Unbreakable... or no mither (though be more careful with that.)
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It's not unreasonable to suggest that you use a perk to counter what you know to be one of the most common killer strategies. That's how perks become meta. That's why Ruin is meta, because it's a counter to one of the most common survivor strategies - genrushing.
As someone stated above, if all four survivors managed to get downed at once, then they played badly. That's that. If all four survivors aren't downed at once, then they should be trying to pick each other up.
Slugging is not only fine, but a bad strategy generally because it's easily counterable by good, well-coordinated survivors. Survivors have so many perks that help to counter slugging already, either directly or indirectly - No Mither, Unbreakable, Flip-Flop, Buckle Up, Bond, Empathy, etc. that it's really not that much of an issue.
If you encounter it a lot, bring perks to counter it. That's not unfair, that's just smart play. And, for the record, I say all this as a heavy survivor main.
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OK, but here is another problem. I have 4 perk slots.
Borrowed time for cases when killer camping the hook.
Decisive strike for cases of tunneling (also very often).
Unbreakable for avoiding sluging.
And last slot for calm spirit to fix broken doctor ability when you stacking though the doc is walking in different direction 30m away of you?
Please add new perk to fix the hits over pallets and desync with server. Everyone will buy this new DLC to carry these perks to fix broken game.
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There is no way to add a perk to fix that?
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Unbreakable base kit...? Yeah.. no.
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There is a difference between needing a perk slot so you don't auto lose from the start vs using a perk to cover a weakness of either you or the average team.
You don't NEED a perk to counter slugging, since countering slugging just requires making sure at least 2 players aren't being slugged at any given moment, which just means 95%ing while slugged and staying away from other slugged Survivors if there is more than one while the other Survivors go in to pick you up.
If you are in the point where none of the Survivors you are matched with are able to do this then yes taking Unbreakable is a valid stop-gap to solve the issue until more people learn to deal with the strategy better.
Compare that to Prayer Beads where if you don't have Spine Chill you lose. Normally Spine Chill works to cover the weakness of being surprised without realizing the Killer is heading for you. The perk isn't the only way to do that but it is the easiest. But since the entire point of Prayer Beads is that it makes knowing the Killer is coming impossible that makes you rely on the Perk which is bad.
But that's NOT what is happening here. Slugging is not strong enough that you can't win against it without a build to counter it, so using a build to cover it anyways is dealing with a personal weakness rather than being a required perk in general. And since you could have done fine without it, if you DON'T do fine without it then it's perfectly ok to use the perk. That's what it's there for.
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They should just add a concede button after you've been slugged for a minute or two without a DC punishment
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In the case of a game against killers with poor map control?
You're trying to make it rocket science. Sluging is easy. First downed is used like a lure. You have to be altruistic and save others. And this is that moment when you have two survivors in one place, same like a unhooking, healing.
Argument "never stay together" is not valid for survivors. Also, sluging all 4 is harder. But when 3 or 2 survivors left? Its a common strategy to slug first one, find the hatch and waiting for moment when sluged survivor rise from ground.
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I mean, at that point it's the Survs misplaying and giving the killer a hug. If the killer is hovering around the slug just do gens, you'll do them faster than the surv bleeds out.
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Slugging a single person is easy.
Slugging an entire team is not. Even with 3 Survivors.
And if there is only 2 Survivors left AND 1 is already down AND the gates aren't already powered then the Killer had to accomplish quite a bit to get there and you are in a losing position by design.
The perk in this case is letting you sometimes win where you should lose. Since losing is the expected outcome in the 2v1 with 1 slugged example and is already balanced around the fact that you'd need a perk to come back from it in most cases is not a problem that needs solving.
This is just like how a perk is needed to maintain yourself as a threat if the gates are powered with 4 Survivors alive, several if you want to capitalize on it properly. This isn't a problem since it being hard to win when you are losing is kinda just like... duh.
And like you said it's basically just like unhooking. The difference between picking someone up from a slug and an unhook is that you can trade forever and if you get out then the Killer has accomplished nothing making the entire thing high risk.
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Great!! Two slots exhausted for fixing this issue.
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And you ignored literally everyone else giving you solutions that take no perks.
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Hang on—you’re bringing a perk to specifically counter doc, who doesn’t show up very often, and NOT running an exhaustion perk? Borrowed time, I get it. Decisive strike, I definitely get it. Unbreakable, I understand. Calm spirit, ######### are you thinking? Wouldn’t you rather have sprint burst, adrenaline, dead hard, lithe, or balanced landing? Something that’s actually going to create distance? What rank are you?
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Tenacity+open exit gate your welcome
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I am not asking for build. I've just notice fact that 4 perks fixing the broken game mechanics. You need to use perks to fix the game. Not for you happy gameplay. I would like to be here and alive in that moment when tunneling, sluging and camping will be punished and my perk slots will be open for new opportunities.
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If killers only slugged when there were multiple other survivors still up that would be one thing but there is only one time killers slug and thats when your the next to last survivor you get left on the ground FORCED to stay in the game by the developers and the killer manipulating a game mechanic.. Its stupid.
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I dont know if i didnt make this clear in my original post or not. I dont care about slugging if there's multiple other survivors up because i always have the chance of getting healed up by another survivor. Its when the killer knows theres only one survivor left and they dont understand that they already have the advantage of egc so they leave you slugged and go look for the hatch and/or other survivor. FORCING you to not be able to do anything. If i could get myself up atleast id be able to play and if you hooked me atleast i could die. Being slugged is FAR worse than either option because we get punished for dcing but not being able to play is just as bad.
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Why should I have to waste a perk slot when the killers slugging is built into the game mechanics?
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Please it is completely unreasonable, when they make slugging a perk we can talk but till then dont try to justify abusing a manipulating a game mechanic to get your way and denying other people the ability to play the game. Thats completely ignorant and showing yourself off as a killer main immediately. Atleast stop to think before you post a reply. YOU HAVE ALL THE ADVANTAGE you get egc which if you wanna take that argument im completely prepared. you do realize you hold the game hostage by slugging right? whats the person on the ground suppose to do? and if the killer is slugging its not just once he's slugging all match so there goes unbreakable. Either slugging needs to be dealt with, survivors need to be allowed to dc or give survivors something built in and if its a ######### ability fine im good with that. I just dont feel like watching the game and not playing it.
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just saying no to an idea isnt contributing. fix the problem.
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situational are you saying theres never a time when only 2 survivors are left alive and one goes down? cause that doesnt sound situational when the devs are literally going on stream to say that surivvors standardly only escape 1 out of 14 matches or something. that means that 13 times out of 14 theres a spot where the killer only has 2 survivors left and if one goes down then thats when slugging begins. ITS NOT SITUATIONAL its inevitable.
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why would the killer hover around the slug its literally the one survivor he doesnt have to worry about. and slugging is more common when there are only 2 survivors left in the match. i dont get how people dont see what im talking about its not like its not happening in almost every match.
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First, I want to point out that slugging is not holding the game hostage. Holding the game hostage means the player being held hostage cannot end the game through normal means and is forced to disconnect. The bleedout timer when slugged is four minutes, after which you die. No disconnecting necessary. Holding the game hostage is a bannable offense so the term should be used correctly.
Second, I agree that slugging is not fun for survivors. The game should give survivors the option, after being in the dying state for a certain amount of time, to "concede," leaving behind a husk and exiting the match; they get their points and are able to move on to a new match.
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I'd let the last survivor get hatch if the game didn't depip me for it.
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This is the best solution, fair on both sides.
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LOL what? This sounds like a sanctioned, free disconnect mechanic that would just lead to a ton of Deerstalker + Knock Out builds.
For the OP: The answer is Unbreakable, and/or your teammates picking you up.
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When slugged, the bleedout timer is 4 minutes. If you get slugged for the 4k and the other survivor camps the hatch, you're stuck there for those 4 minutes doing nothing. Sometimes, the killer seems to get annoyed at the crows I collect and sacrifices me, but otherwise I'm there for the 4 minutes. It's pretty pointless. There's no reason to keep the player in the game; if the player's willing to say, "Cool, you win," and leave behind a husk, and if it improves solo survivors' experiences because they don't feel like they're being held in a match against their will, not even being able to play and earning no BP for their wasted time, then it doesn't seem like that big a deal.
The time survivors spend on the hook is only two minutes, and they can suicide. This wouldn't be much different. When hooked, they can suicide right away; I mentioned a stipulation for "concede" that they needed to be in the dying state for a certain amount of time. Hell, on the hook they at least earn BP for struggling. Slugged survivors earn nothing.
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Yes it is? Lol. I’m disagreeing with this idea. It’s not a good one. Slugging is a viable strategy. And yes, it isn’t fun for survivors. I do like @TragicSolitude s’ idea, as it is similar to what I would suggest.
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SO YOU THINK FORCING A PLAYER TO SIT ON GROUND FOR 4 MINUTES AND NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY IS NOT HOLDING THEM HOSTAGE? THEY CANT END THE GAME THEMSELVES THEY ARE FORCED TO STAY THROUGH THE ENTIRE THING. Obviously a killer main since you like to justify it, bet you also argue that ruin is necessary to "slow down the game" by the way your cliche just like the people who slug.
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it would be fair to just give the survivors a death capsule. something they could use to end it if for instance they get downed and just have the killer following them not hooking them like an idiot. cause thats what killers like to do. or just being forced to wait for an egc to auto hook you cause killers wanna see it. Slugging is dumb and the ONLY people on this post promoting it are killer mains. GUARANTEED. you'll see the same people arguing for ruin and other perks that fine idc about ruin you need it to get kills whatever. doesnt make you good by any means but thats on you. Ruin is still a perk slow they waste. slugging is a mechanic thats being abused in the game by toxic killers to guarantee they get a 4 kill instead of 3. its stupid and pointless and ruins the game for atleast 1 player a match. Again ive only been playing 113 days plus some odd hours. So what do i know
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I can't even really read what you are saying man. Like, those sentences are all over. Can you take a moment and kinda fix that so I can read it?
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which part?
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Literally use no mither you would never have to worry about being slugged.
Most Killers won't slug somebody with no mither anyway and even if they do you could get yourself back up
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again requiring a perk slot to counter a broken game mechanic? its not worth it especially no mither. perm -1 with no mither
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Well i read enough to dismiss it. Lumping all Killers together and then insulting them? No, I'm good thanks. I don't Slug, Tunnel, or Camp but you are lumping me in with Toxic people that want to only ever 4k and stuff like that? No. I refuse to continue this talk if that is all you are gonna do. I want balance on both sides, cause I want a good back and forth match. If you can't understand a Killer Main that wants that, I don't have time for this.
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Lumping you in? Literally unless your trying to sit and defend this mechanic or argue for ruin cause of "Genrushing" when we all know its about as fictitious as it comes then im not lumping you into anything. You read what you want in that statement but killers who arent actively trying to solve the problem like they did WHEN genrushing was a problem arent contributing. You arent coming up with a solution by dismissing the problem and yes offering up NO mither or unbreakable as options is just as bad as actively dismissing it altogether. The whole point is that slugging requires no perks so requiring survivors to waste a perk slot on an end game mechanic is hypocritical.
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So good job, you are not listening to what I am saying and dismissing everyone trying to help you. There shouldn't be just a build in counter to it, cause there are perks. @TragicSolitude had the best idea for something like that.
I'm done. You arent helping this discussion either and don't seem to want to have it other than to tell everyone trying to help you that they are wrong.
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... I'm so confused. Did you actually read what I wrote? After stating what the developers of the game define as "being held hostage," I said slugging isn't fun for survivors. I said I don't believe players should be forced to bleed out on the ground for four minutes. Without completely removing the slugging mechanic, the best solution would be to allow a survivor to "concede" and leave behind a husk, getting their points and moving on, after being in the dying state for a certain amount of time.
Not that it even matters, but I play both killer and survivor. When I play killer, I don't use Ruin. I use Distressing, Beast of Prey, BBQ, and Whispers. No add-ons. For a while as survivor I was running DS, Unbreakable, Tenacity, and Flip Flop.
Edit: Oh, except today, I did use a different perk build. I played as Nurse with no add-ons using Thrill of the Hunt, Monstrous Shrine, and Enduring. Just thought I'd add that; I didn't want anyone to think I'm a liar about what perks I use.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on2 -
i actually didnt see where you suggested the husk idea i actually think that benefits everyone. as for your build definitely one of the more skillfull ones lateliy ive had to double down on stealth urban, left behind, distortion and inner strength. and as per UlvenDagoth I am seeing what you're suggesting but again all your doing is dismissing slugging as something that you need to run a perk for but why? WHY DO I NEED TO RUN A PERK CAUSE KILLERS HAVE A BUILT IN MECHANIC TO FORCE ME TO SIT IN THE GAME AND NOT PLAY?!?!?!?! thats not HELPING you're suggesting something that shouldnt be a thing. So if you think im not trying to find help then be ignorant i dont mind. Thats you. But TragicSolitude had a completely great idea that benefits both sides and i admit i didnt see it the first time he posted it. But that is perfect.
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@TragicSolitude He didn't mention you right.
Like you didn't mention me right. Excuse me, what you are doing is basically talking behind my back. You don't want to equip a perk to deal with a game mechanic? I don't want to equip Hex:Ruin to deal with gen speeds. I don't want to have to have 2-3 gen control perks per build. All I am seeing from you is excuses and yelling with no real reasons or logic. Perks being fixes to things in the game is a literal part of the game. Have Fun in the fog man, and I mean that sincerely, cause I can't get through to you it seems.
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Gen speeds still caused by taking items in with survivors. SOMETHING SURVIVORS STILL HAVE TO TAKE IN. and by the way since when dont killers want to take ruin. its almost staple anymore. Dont act like ruin doesnt get you most if not all of your kills. And yes i did mention @TragicSolitude cause I was responding to his AND your post. I wasnt talking about you behind your back i was replying but wow your definitely one of the killers ive been referring to defend slugging and ruin probably think noed is fair too. You arent helping you are only dismissing. And thats not good for anyone.
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That's a big wall of text right there
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Getting slugged is better than getting hooked because you can move and can be saved and recover.
Getting hooked 3 to 4x is death when your teammates didn't make it in time or getting hooked then the killer will mori you after you escaped the entity
Getting slugged is not as bad as getting hooked.
3 survivors getting slugged at the beginning of the game? Blaming slugging Seriously? Atleast 2,3 or all of them must be newbies or bad players
you are blaming slugging when your teammates are the one to blame
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Instead of demanding a strategy be removed, suggest something that could be done to help the situation out so slugging wouldn't need to be used so often.
You stated the slugging strategy is mostly used to get a 4K. Instead of immediately just removing the strategy find a more healthy alternative to help get a 4K that's best for both parties.
Some people don't want to risk hatch games so as I said before finding alternative that suits both parties is best because right now what you're suggesting is going fix the problem for survivors but Killers will just find a new method to guarantee a 4K and trust me you're going to find that annoying too.
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If Unbreakable was built into a survivors base kit, I would probably never play killer again.
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4 kills should be rare like 4 escapes. This is balance.
Who the hell did the 4 kills as standard? You will stop playing if they give unbreakable as base kit to avoid slugging? :D What's wrong with you?
...or maybe, it is a good decision for all of us, if you thinking about gameplay this way.
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