Killer Idea - The Reaper
The Reaper
Movement Speed: 4.4 M/S (110%)
Terror Radius: 32 Meters
Height: Tall (floating like the Nurse)
Weapons: Scythe
Power: Soul Thief - You may charge your Scythe for 2 seconds to ready your power, gradually slowing down to 3.6 M/S (90%) during the charge (average of 100% M/S if released immediately).
Releasing the charge will Reap all Survivors within an 8 meter radius regardless of obstacles, causing them to scream and granting you their soul. Your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters per soul in your possession.
To regain their soul Survivors must head to one of 3 Alters and preform a 4 second channel. While preforming the channel the Alter becomes active showing it's aura to the Reaper and will remain active for 5 seconds after the channel ends.
While Soul Thief is charged and you have at least 1 soul you may press M1 to preform Void Strike and instantly teleport 4 meters forwards and attack the first Survivors in the path. This may be recast by pressing M1 again for each additional soul you have so long as the attack hits a Survivor. You may Void Strike in the direction of an active Alter to teleport directly to it.
Soulless Survivors preform ALL actions 10% slower including movement and vaulting and will appear monochrome and their character portrait will no longer be filled in.
Addons
BROWN
- Increases Reap range by 1 meter
- Removes 1 Alter
- Hitting a Survivor with Void Strike inflicts Mangled on the Survivor until they are healed
- Increases Void Strike range by 1 meter
YELLOW
- Increases Reap range by 2 meters
- Alters take 1 extra second to use
- Increases Void Strike range by 2 meters
- Soulless Survivors are inflicted with Blindness
- Hitting a Survivor with Void Strike inflicts Broken on the Survivor for 45 seconds
GREEN
- Increases Reap range by 3 meters
- Decreases Soul Thief charge time by 0.5 seconds
- Aalters take 2 extra seconds to use
- Increases the Slowdown on Soulless Survivors by 2%
- Void Strike will steal Souls from Survivors if you don't already have them
PURPLE
- Increases the Slowdown on Soulless Survivors by 3%
- Each Soul stolen decreases your terror radius by 4 more than normal
- Reaping a Survivor inflicts Exhaustion on them for 30 seconds
- You are undetectable while charging Soul Thief
RED
- Soulless Survivors no longer have their movement speed reduced. You move 5% faster per soul in your possession
- All Survivors start the trial Soulless. Survivors are Oblivious while using an Alter
Perks
- Hex: Despair - Every time a Survivor heals gain a token. Hooking a Survivor will consume a token, inflicting the broken status effect for 30/60/90 seconds once they are unhooked. When the hex is cleansed you can no longer gain tokens but you will keep your existing tokens and can still utilize them.
- Isolation - For every Survivor not within 32 meters of another Survivor gain 1 charge per second. At 80 charges gain 3/4/5% increased movement speed. Downing a Survivor will reset your charges.
- Unpaid Dues - You are obsessed with one Survivor. Whenever a Survivor is unhooked that Survivor will gain a permanent 10% action speed penalty to repairing generators, healing and sabotaging hooks. The Obsession will gain a 10/15/20% action speed penalty instead. This debuff stacks up to twice per Survivor.
Comments
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Added the addons. Please give feedback.
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10% move speed is a huge penalty. Even a small move speed penalty like 2% is a pretty big difference. Either it needs to be move speed only and a much smaller penalty or actions only. Freddy snares and clown bottles do 15% for reference so you can see how having 10% constantly is a pretty insane effect.
Edit for the perks:
Hex: Despair: good survivors dont heal anyways. I guess it kinda counters adrenaline if its not gone by then
Isolation: Seems good, would have to not be able to see the progress on it though otherwise its kinda whispers+. Possibly too good but hard to tell without seeing it in action.
Unpaid Dues: hold m1 more perk bad
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That's why he's a 110% Killer.
If this was a 115% Killer it would be broken, but this way it's at the cost of having trouble closing the initial gap before he can reap and having longer patrol times.
He needs the movement speed slowdown to be greater than 5% because otherwise he's objectively worse in a chase than every other Killer in the game. And he needs the action speed slowdown because he's the only 110% Killer that doesn't have either range or a movement ability.
And the situational stealth and free health states are there because the direct effects on Survivors are mostly making up for the weaknesses of a 110%, making those 2 effects the ones that give you a real edge over other Killers and not the 10% action debuff.
And of course if we remove those too and just make him a 115% Killer then Survivors could easily just not bother getting their souls back and just leave him as a Ghostface but slightly worse due to not having undetectable or tracking (both have an instant down).
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I didn't realise that he was 110%. That puts survivor move speed at 3.6 m/s vs his 4.4 m/s. Meaning against a reaped survivor the speed difference is .8 m/s compared to the normal .6 m/s of a 115 killer. Thats just slightly relatively faster than a 115 killer with tier 3 NOED active(4.784 m/s). Seems alright.
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Btw regarding isolation, I think it should see the progress.
This would essentially tell you how many Survivors are not within a certain radius of another Survivor.
Whispers tells you how many Survivors are within a certain radius of YOU.
The second effect is by far the more useful of the 2.
However, the movement speed from isolation is designed to not be super common to activate in order to keep it in check (I probably overdid that but still), otherwise it would be OP.
The thing is that since it won't activate reliability it needs a more reliable secondary effect to maintain its usefulness. Hence getting small amounts of info from the charge.
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Yeah it just hard to think about how often you are within 32 meters of another survivor. Like I said I'd have to see that in action before I can make a good judgment about it.
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That's easy to test. Just run bond for a few games and see how often no Survivors are in range.
Yes it's technically 36 meters not 32 meters but it's close enough. If you want to be sure then just run it at Tier 2 for 28 meters to get a low estimate.
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This is a far more balanced version of the Reaper than any I've ever seen. I'd actually want to play this. Great job! : )
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Thanks! Hope everyone else agrees.
I'm pretty sure I made a post somewhere about how on a fundamental level 110% Killers are better in terms of design.
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"To regain their soul Survivors must head to one of 3 Sacrificial alters. While healthy a Survivor may take 4 seconds to sacrifice a health state at an alter to become injured but regain their soul. Alters cannot be used while the Survivor is injured."
This... is too much. There should not be a negative penalty for removing a negative condition. This would be akin to losing a health state after removing a Pig trap, losing a health state after using a Freddy alarm clock, losing a health state after cleansing at a Plauge fountain, losing a health state after snapping out of it from the Doctor, losing a health state after escaping a Trapper bear trap (which can only happen with a very rare add-on)... In fact, there is no method in the game for a survivor to purposefully lose a health state to avoid a negative effect, and it's that way for a reason.
Add on to this that unhealthy survivors are permanently stuck with the massive debuff with no way of removing it without healing and then immediately going BACK to being injured makes this oppressive. Plus sacrificing a health state is pointless if your soul can be immediately reaped again while you're still injured from regaining your soul. PLUS you're effectively exposed against a killer with an increased lunge distance and at a 5% speed decrease as compared to a chase with a 115% killer if you ignore getting your soul back and just heal. A power like this would be way too frustrating for survivors, and you'd get people DCing after their soul gets reaped (especially if they're hooked afterwards) because the grind to get back to a normal health state is crazy and easily/instantly undone.
As a final note on the logistics of this power, there is no restriction on stealing the souls of downed or hooked survivors. So you could steal someone's soul, Void Strike them so they go down and regain their soul, then steal their soul again before you hook them. The Reaper should definitely only be able to steal souls from completely healthy survivors, and even then I think this power with no other changes is still very over-powered. (P.S. Why does Void Strike not regrant a survivor their soul if they're already injured? It's still a vastly improved attack)
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Void Strike giving souls back to injured survivors is negative utility. If it didn't work like that it would only be used on Healthy Survivors or Survivors who have their souls still thus massively reducing it's utility.
You wouldn't be able to take the souls of downed or hooked Survivors, much like how Doctor can't shock them to build up their madness and Ghostface and Myers can't stalk them. Plague is the only Killer than can use a power like this on Downed or Hooked Survivors.
As for why regaining your soul injures you:
First of all, there needs to be some way to get your soul back. Otherwise he can just apply the effect once and then it stays on for the entire game, while this could in theory be balanced it certainly wouldn't be very fun and it effectively makes half of his kit (the part that steals souls) completely redundant.
If regaining your soul is easy or cheap then they can just do so continuously thus rendering him powerless for the first half of all chases and makes him a ######### Killer even if the effects from his power are good, since the effects only being present in a chase after being applied in that same chase do not make up for his 110% movement speed, and I've already said above why he needs to be 110% for this entire thing to work.
So now why injury specifically as the cost? First of all it is something Survivors have shown willingness to pay as demonstrated by the Plague. While this case isn't completely different it does have some similarities in that you would rather give up a health state than give the Killer an easy chase. In other words as annoying as this is it's also one of the few strong effects that Survivors don't tend to complain about (compare more direct slowdown like Legion or Doc)
Additionally this allows for more play-style variety for Survivors against this Killer. Specifically if you want the health state more than the 10% more MS is a choice that Survivors can make, and unlike with the Plague the Survivors don't all need to agree and aren't screwed if some people chose differently than them (unlike Plague who screws over broken Survivors if someone cleanses).
But why does this also prevent already injured Survivor from using the Alters? First of all this curbs the anti-heal meta against this Killer. Since if can stay injured and keep removing the debuff then you can effectively ignore the cost of the Alter thus causing all of the problems I've already mentioned and effectively making this Killer a Plague with a slower patrol time. Trying to stay injured AND while soulless is obviously a bad idea as well, so this is a Killer you want to heal vs.
Now why does he need all of this power at once? Because he's a 110% Killer. And while in a chase he can still close the gaps with the 10% slowdown he still needs to be able to handle his biggest weakness: Patrol times.
This is the only 110% Killer that doesn't have an instant gap closer, fast patrol times or both.
Spirit, Nurse and Hag all have movement based abilities that can be used to set the distance from a Survivor to 0 in a chase and outside of one. Huntress can't move with her power but doesn't need to due to having so much range. And more importantly all of these Killers completely negate the standard Pallet and Window dynamics.
This Killer does none of that. Void Strike's range while larger than a lunge is smaller than other Similar abilities by a lot other than Leatherfaces because LF sucks. He doesn't negate pallets at all and even while soulless you can force him to break pallets often ect ect ect. These weaknesses are unique to him and NEED to be addressed to make him work. So he NEEDS effects that are on paper extremely strong.
Heck even with everything I just stated I still don't think he'd be very good. Which is why the TR thing exists, without mobility or a way to finish off Survivors bypassing defenses he needs an entire bucket list of benefits.
TLDR: Unless you want regaining your soul to take like 30 seconds or something super long like that there needs to be a strong penalty to doing so. Injury is one that fits well into the meta. Injured survivors doing it anyways would break the entire dynamic. Anything less makes this a bottom tier Killer.
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Also Void Strike is not an increased lunge range.
Yes it travels slightly further than a lunge does but it also doesn't work like most attacks. Specifically it deals damage to Survivors you move through. This means for example that you can never hit a vaulting Survivor with a Void Strike because you can't travel through a vaulting location with it.
The function of the Void Strike is both an instant down and crowd control, not gap closing or anti-loop like Demogorgons Shread
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i didnt think i would like this, but it seems like youve put a lot of thought into this killer. kudos. i would play him.
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Lets say we do your solution and make him only be able to steal souls from healthy Survivors.
Why on earth would I ever heal against this Killer as a Survivor then? People already are willing to not cleanse against Plague who injures them AND makes them super loud AND haves them leave a mark on everything they touch AND is 115%.
This Killer doesn't have any special effects on Survivors who have their soul, so if everyone just doesn't heal then you've denied him his power AND he's a 110% Killer so no one is going to be worried about looping him.
Even if he was 115% he still would have the same problem as Plague but even worse since Plague has her own list of benefits to having infected Survivors. And we can only change so much before we aren't even talking about the same Killer that we started with.
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Numbering for simplicity:
1. Void Strike giving souls back to injured survivors is not negative utility because you still get to use Void Strike, which sounds like it’s effectively a Nurse blink (which has 333% movement speed) with no charge up time. Also apparently it can hit multiple survivors at once, which makes taking a hit for a survivor you just unhooked completely useless (which is one of the best tools survivors have against tunneling). And if the survivor being chased has no soul, then the Reaper is effectively a 120% speed killer that has applied the exposed status effect to that survivor already.
2. I think you’re forgetting that a 10% debuff to all actions is BRUTAL. It increases time for survivors to traverse the map to reach generators AND to get hook saves. Think of how often survivors need to mad dash in a straight line across the map when they realize their teammates are about to reach second stage / death on the hook and even at full speed they often don’t make it in time. It decreases healing speed to help other soulless survivors get healed so they can get their soul back and then need to reheal after they get their soul back. I can’t fathom how it sounds like a good idea to have a power that incentives the following scenario:
3. Picture this: You are a survivor that is being chased by the Reaper. The Reaper catches up enough to steal your soul, which is not hard as a 110% killer to get in a 10m range of a survivor (see Huntress). The Reaper then smacks you once as you cross a vault (again, not hard for a 110% killer to do), then Void Strikes you with a pseudo-Nurse blink to the ground at your next open running phase of the chase. You are then hooked with no soul. You are saved by another survivor (who potentially takes 10% longer to reach you because they are soulless themselves, which could cause you to go to second phase). That survivor then heals you (potentially with a 10% penalty due to being soulless themselves) and you have to run at 90% movement speed to an exposed position where you get back your soul at an alter after four whole seconds of standing there. You are then, once again, injured. You have to be healed again by a teammate (potentially with a 10% penalty due to being soulless). Then you run to a generator, only for the Reaper to show up. The Reaper then steals your soul, and the process starts all over again, if you are lucky enough not to be Void Striked to the ground due to being exposed and being dead on hook. I'm sure killer mains would love how this keeps survivors completely unable to do generators. But there is NO WAY that any survivor player would find this fair or fun or balanced.
4. I think you are also forgetting that no other killer has passive slowdown effects for actions as part of their power. Huntress, Spirit, and Hag (the other 110% killers) do not have any sort of 10% action slowdown associated with them. Plague’s power has no action speed slowdown. Freddy’s Dream World has no action speed slowdown. The reason for this is that if a killer like Reaper were to use perks like Hex: Ruin, thanatophobia, dying light, etc. it would be atrocious.
5. I don’t understand why you point out that other 110% killers in the game have specific range or mobility elements to their power and then specifically avoid having this killer have either of those. They are designed that way for a reason. And you have pointed out those reasons in your posts. To try and compensate for not having either of those utility portions of the power by making the power instead impossible to counter, you are setting this killer concept up for failure.
6. If the power is either so oppressive that it’ll cause DCs or so weak that the killer will be bottom-tier, then the power needs to be reworked.
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Although no basekit ability has a direct slowdown effect, there are plenty of indirect slowdown effects, and addons which have direct slowdown, Freddy with the Jump rope addon for example has a 10% action speed slowdown and is much easier to apply then the soulless effect. Stacking with swinging chains it's 21% slowdown to be exact, which is a bigger slowdown than this Killers even with addons.
That makes sense of course since the slowdown is for movement as well, but the point is that you CAN make it work.
Additional Freddy also can teleport and slows your movement speed by a minimum of 15% if you try to loop him.
In anycase though, no power is ever impossible to balance. If you want to help then focus on assisting in solving the problems you come up with rather than just stopping there. There are plenty of numbers to tweak afterall.
For example: If the punishment for getting your soul back is too much considering the difficulty for taking it, then since the punishment itself is necessary that means the difficulty for applying it is the one that can change instead.
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Freddy's slow-down effects are only to repair, sabotage, and healing speeds. This killer would slow down those actions plus: searching, totem breaking, unhooking, exit gate opening, vaulting, and movement speed (at all times) with up to 16% to ALL these actions with add-ons. Not to mention add-ons that apply mangled and broken status effects at brown and yellow, which makes the health state sacrifice even more insane.
Freddy isn't the best example here. Survivors have an independent way of getting out of the dream world through the clock (without a health state sacrifice), a cooperative way of getting out of the dream world through waking each other up, AND are automatically pulled from the dream world when hooked. The Reaper as it stands has ONLY the independent way of getting your soul back, plus a huge penalty for doing so.
I'm not sure I agree that any power can be balanced. As I've pointed out, this power already subverts several balance principles of the game: it encourages survivors to sacrifice health states (not currently in the game), it includes action speed slowdown debuffs (including movement speed) as part of the base kit (not currently in the game), and is a 110% killer with no range or movement abilities (not currently in the game).
Despite my main criticism being the punishment for regaining your soul being far too much, you seem to still be of the opinion that it is "necessary" and not open to change. I'm not sure how I can help when my suggestions are brushed aside like that. You asked for feedback and I gave it, you can do with it what you will of course. I don't have a horse in this race, I just wanted to offer my perspective. If you decide that your killer is good as is despite my opinion, then more power to you. It's your creation.
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Necessary doesn't mean not open to change. It just means that any changes would need to ensure the function of the mechanic is maintained and that it's removal comes with a substitute which fulfils the same function: in this case the function is ensuring that despite being able to regain their souls they won't do so continuously despite its effects.
In theory there could be other methods of doing this. I just felt like injury was the one that solves the most problems that's the one I went with.
The only thing that I'm 100% unwilling to change is the core premise of the soul thief mechanic (the actual take soul and inflict omni-debuff part), everything else around that is just making it work and further defining the playstyle including the magnitude of the debuff.
I'd like to remind you that you only gave 1 suggestion despite trying to bring up a lot of problems, specifically the "can only take the souls of healthy Survivors". And because of the crippling flaws behind that solution it isn't one that could be implemented.
It's not that I'm against feedback or anything like that. I've ended up massively changing my own suggestions based off feedback before, but in order to do that you (and anyone else giving feedback) need to be trying to do this from the perspective of solving problems and not poking holes in the idea. (Poking holes is still something you should do but ultimately it's just the means to an end).
As for why anything can be balanced, just remember that balance is a mathematical statistic. So long as there are continuous variables that can be tweaked there is some set of numbers that fall within the range of effectiveness called "balanced". So a last resort could be to just alter the magnitude of the debuff as the Killers Movement Speed until the end result is a balanced Killer (doing so has it's own problems, but they are non-balance issues so that's different).
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Btw, all of these things actually DO exist in the game somewhere:
Sacrificing health states - Bloody Coil Trapper
Movement speed slowdown - Freddy and Clown
Action speed Slowdown - Freddy (with addons)
Sub 115% Killer with no movement/range - Scratched Mirror Myers/Tombstone Myers/Body-blocker Hag
This may be the only Killer that has all of it at once, but it's not like these idea's are completely non-existent elsewhere. Plus even if they weren't it wouldn't be a reason not to implement it, since every Killer is at least somewhat unique. Just because it doesn't currently exist somewhere doesn't mean it's a core balance concept, and even if it was that doesn't mean we can't implement it anyways by just properly designing around it like I am attempting to here with my violation of the "110% = hardcounters pallets/windows" rule.
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All of that being said, thanks for not just saying "Killer sucks reeee". What you are saying is certainly way better than something like that <3
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Bloody coil is not an incentive to lose a health state, it is a disincentive to disarming trams. Freddy and Clown movement speed slowdowns are location-based, not permanent conditions. Freddy’s action speed slow downs are only to some actions, not all. And those killer builds are gimmick add-on builds, not base powers.
The reason I have not offered many solutions is because I don’t want to tell you how to make your killer or hijack your idea. I don’t claim to be able to “make a better Reaper” than you can. I fully believe that you are the one who can make the best version, considering it is your concept, but other perspectives can help you get there. However, if you do want my take (while considering your preferences) here it is:
Primary Power: Soul Thief
· You may charge your Scythe for 2 seconds to ready your power, gradually slowing down to 3.6 M/S (90%) during the charge (average of 100% M/S if released immediately).
· Releasing the charge will reap all healthy or injured Survivors within a 10 meter radius regardless of obstacles, causing them to scream and granting you their soul.
· Your terror radius is reduced by 8 meters per soul in your possession.
· Soulless survivors preform ALL actions 10% slower including movement and vaulting.
· The Reaper can’t pick up or hook soulless survivors.
· To regain their soul Survivors must head to the single sacrificial alter. A survivor may interact with the alter for four seconds to reclaim their soul. When a survivor retrieves their soul from the alter, the Reaper gets a notification and can immediately teleport to the alter.
· The Reaper can interact with the alter to sacrifice all souls in his possession. These souls are returned to their respective survivors. The auras of survivors whose souls are returned are revealed to the Reaper for 60 seconds and those survivors suffer from the exposed status effect for 60 seconds.
Secondary Power: Void Strike
· While holding at least one soul of a survivor, the Reaper may teleport forward in a very fast attack in a straight line, which is interrupted by obstacles such as pallets, walls, and vaults. The first survivor that is passed through in this line is hit by an attack.
· Soulless survivors lose one health state.
· Survivors who have their souls are immediately put into the dying state.
Obviously this has problems too (again I don’t claim to have the best possible solution) but I think it fits thematically with a reaper because the reaper should want to chase survivors WITH souls. If a reaper already have someone’s soul, why are they trying to kill them? And being able to teleport to the alter after a soul is regained has the same essence of the health state sacrifice idea (makes it very dangerous for an injured survivor to do it and makes a healthy survivor very likely to take a hit), but requires time dedication by the killer. I can share more of my rationale of course. I appreciate the discourse as well.
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Now THIS is something I can work with.
Things that are good:
- Replacing direct injury with being able to teleport to a Survivor at an alter
- Survivors with souls being instant downed instead of the soulless
- Void Strike requiring a Soul
Now as for everything else:
- I do want Void Strike to have Crowd Control usage. One idea would be that it can be recast if you have additional souls AND actually got a hit off (in which case it wouldn't need to instant down at all), in otherwords if you have 4 souls then you could Void Strike 4 times back to back before having the attack cooldown, but if you have 1 soul then you use it once and are done
- Not being able to pick up soulless Survivors would be terrible. You need them to be soulless if you want to have a good chance of downing people. Remember that the debuff is already incentive to go for Survivors with Souls (who are repairing gens at full speed).
- While I get what you are going for, I don't like the idea of the Reaper returning everyone's souls.
Anyways I'll make some edits to the OP with all of this in mind.
Btw the idea behind Suggestions being MUCH better than complaints isn't that you can make a better Reaper, but that you can make a DIFFERENT Reaper which I can then use as a point of comparison. Having an alternative means even if I don't like everything I'll have something to work with for figuring out solutions.
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Void Strike is now 4 meters at basekit.
Alters now take 4 seconds to use and usage is revealed to the Killer, but no longer Injures you.
Void Strike never instant downs but can be recast if you have extra souls and requires at least 1 soul to use.
Void Strike can be used to teleport to active Alters.
Reap has 8 meters of range instead of 10 meters.
Some addons are changed to accommodate these.
Post edited by NuclearBurrito on0 -
Added a visual que to a Survivor being soulless because I just realized I forgot to do that.
Soulless Survivors are monochrome and their portraits aren't filled in.
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Just be honest and admit you wanted this bumped. lmao
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Whaaaat. Noooooo.
I'd totally never want one of my posts to be placed higher will more people will see it and give me more feedback allowing me to further improve it until it's the best idea ever.
Definitely 0 motivation for such an ulterior motive.
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Nah, you'll be called a attention thot and given the same treatment your favorite Killer is getting now. ;)
(RIP Rin)
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RIP indeed.
While you're here any feedback for the Killer?
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