What is being toxic? Community brainstorm
Me: XBOX, Red ranks, Freddy and Demo, Nea and Steve mains.
Ok, I've read multiple threads about toxicity in DBD, but to be honest we might have different concepts towards what being toxic is.
When I'm a survivor: A toxic killer is the one who tunnels, face camps sends rage or mocking messages post game or any combination of the things I just said. IMPORTANT: TUNNELING IS GOING FOR THE SAME SURVIVOR IGNORING EVERYTHING ELSE, TUNNELING IS NOT RUNNING INTO THE SAME SURVIVOR AND KILLING/DOWNING/HOOKING HIM CAUSE HE MADE DUMB DECISIONS. PROXY CAMPING IS NOT TOXIC BY MY RULES, IF YOUR TEAM CAN'T HANDLE A PROXY CAMPER YOU MUST BE IN GREY OR YELLOW RANKS. I do not care for Moris, NOED, RUIN, etc. A toxic teammate is the one who farms you, drops pallets on you, unhooks you close to the killer without having BT or knowing how to help you get away and/or leaves as soon as the exit gates are open without trying to help the team (this doesn't apply if he/she had a daily or was doing an achievment hunt)
When I'm a killer: A toxic survivor is he/she who teabags and/or sends rage or mocking messages post game. I do not care if he had insta heals, body blocked, specific perks, etc.
Again, this are my concepts and ideas, WHAT IS "BEING TOXIC" TO YOU?
Comments
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Going out of your way to BM or purposely negatively effect someone. Basically just doing stuff that requires you to go out of your way to be a bad person.
19 -
Existing.
Playing a certain character like Nea, Kate or Steve, (considering how frequently they get tunneled).
Sand-bagging.
Overstaying your welcome in end game chat.
Slugging.
Other than a few exceptions, most of these are a negative reflection of the player base.
4 -
Slugging? You mean a killer not giving an easy hatch? That's toxic to you? Or another kind like 4 men slugging?
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Taunting/BMing the entire game.
No one likes to play a game where you are always taunted and mocked the whole game, but you can't do anything about it.
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As a survivor:
I think it's toxic if I am hiding in a spot and another surv comes and block me for a whole minute (or more) just to move their camera (I see it whit his head movement) or t-bagging.
When the killer's block you (it's an easy hit so why not?) but instead of hitting you. He just stand there for the whole match and ruin your experience.
Tunneling is a hard topic because I see two ways of tunneling. If one survivor unhook me without BT and the killer hooks me again then it's the survivor fault (even if it ruins my experience). The other way that I think it's wrong is if I just pick a certain survivor and the killer just focus in you, just because you use it (without t-bagging or quick clicking the flashlight). As an example I played a lot with Claudette recently just for leveling her and obtain Selfcare as a teachable. A lot of killers think I am playing in "easy mode" and ignores every other survivor just to focus on me.
Camping. Well as a killer I think it's a bad strategy and ruins completely the experience for a survivor.
As a killer (I think the killer experience is worst by the toxicity and that's why we see more killer complains):
T-bag: Why do you need to tease me? (That's why I think devs should do something about infinites, the game design was intended to use pallets as a distraction or for avoiding a hit, not for running in circles, specially because the majority of killers are not made to face those loops, M1 killers suffer a lot about them)
Bodyblock: I don't see an issue if I am going to hook someone but there are certain times where a survivor drop a pallet and you can't destroy it because there is a survivor behind you.
Let me explain, for destroying a pallet the killer's model go slightly behind but that can't happen when there is a survivor blocking the killer's model (models can't be overlapped).
Rapid clicking with flashlights: I mean it's used just to tease and even if you tell me "ok, but that means the flashlight is being depleted" that doesn't mean it doesn't still bother
Flashlight saves: I don't really see issues with it because it's a game feature but What happens when even if you turn you can't avoid being blinded because there are two people trying to blind you and they can still blind you from the side?
Also flashlights should be reworked. Why If a killer is not seeing the flashlight it can still be blinded by it?
If the killer is looking not directly to the flashlight but it happens that the flashlight beam is big enough to catch their eyes, even at his side, the flashlight will blind the killer.
In real life a flashlight can only blind you if it catch your eyes in front of you.
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I think you pretty much summed it up.
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Toxic is not getting your way because everyone else is toxic
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For me toxic in game comes in two fashions, getting body blocked so you cannot play as a survivor, and DCing as either killer or survivor.
After a match on PC saying anything inappropriate is also toxic.
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Toxicity in Dbd boils down to 3 things to me on each side, As Survivor: spamming flashlights, body blocking people and excessive t-bagging. As Killer: Face camping, slugging until bleed out, and excessive tunneling.
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It's a deliberate attempt to make you feel bad/ruin your experience.
Thus toxicity is a matter of intent so for any given "toxic" action it's less "X action is toxic" and more "people do X in order to be toxic".
In otherwords no action is ALWAYS toxic, including tbagging. Actions done strategically are never toxic for example.
Also Plague, she's toxic.
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Hacking, lagswitchers, exploits, any rule breaking. Everything else is fair game.
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Intentionally trying to ruin the experience for others.
IE Tbagging/flashlight flicking/spam vaulting over and over on the other side of the map/facecamping/insulting in after game chat/sand bagging your own teammates.
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Doing something not to win, but to make sure someone else has less fun.
That should really be all there is to it.
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I think that makes it really difficult, because you seem to assume that someone could win but not do it and lose at the same time so that others don't have fun anymore, which in turn requires that we all understand the same thing about fun, but we don't. At least that's my impression.
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Maybe we're just on different pages here, but I think there's a pretty clear distinction. To use a more extreme example: Say you're playing killer and see a bunch of toolboxes in your lobby.
- Equipping Franklin's Demise is not toxic.
- Equipping Franklin's Demise, hitting a survivor, then camping that toolbox for the rest of the match (not caring if all the gens get done and everyone escapes) just so they lose their item is pretty toxic.
Basically I draw the line at the point where what you're doing has no benefit, it's purely to annoy someone.
19 -
Heres a pretty good example from a match I just had. The Huntress had a pretty rough match... A chat like this one isnt gonna make them feel any better about it.
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I hope you made a specific report for that person...
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But... What if someone facecamps in order to get kills? That being a strategy and not an inteded way of making someone mad? I get it's not bannable (I don't want it out of the game either, don't get me wrong), but it isn't toxic for you?
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Totally depends. If they're doing it because they're having a bad game and need to get a kill somehow, oh well. I'm sure you're not going to be happy about it, but they're doing what they can to get a kill. If you do it just to stick around for the salt in post game chat, then I'd say it's toxic.
Problem is that you can't really tell what the context is.
7 -
before devs implement measures to prevent deranking
very famous fog whisperer & other streamers used to derank using 3'rd party applications and que up to go against a rank 13 killer to bully them and impress their viewers
nowadays we cant see that as killers got fairly balanced and devs fixed deranking.
nowadays being toxic would mean DC'ing or BM'ing the killer I guess
not much toxicity is alive these days in DBD IMO
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I define toxicity as in "You're a toxic player if you envy or if you are in disbelief that you got outplayed or outspoken for your own benefit or enjoyment to bring down your opposite, your opponent".
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Not to me. But some people can see it that way.
Four man is what I meant, but I guess it’s open to interpretation.
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I can put up with busted perk synergies, instaheals, etc., to a point, but I get pretty tilted when I run into a SWF that also runs OoO and plays a map offering. Like, it's not enough for them to have comms apparently. It's just blatantly disregarding the other side's enjoyment so they can play the easiest possible version of the game. I hadn't played Spirit in months until last night. Two Ghostface games in a row against OoO. A Hag game against 3 flashlights and OoO. A Clown game on Ironworks. Just frustrating.
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Being Survivor:
1. Camping without any reason. No people around the hook, start of the game etc. (Camping when someone is there, for pressure or during EGC is OK for me.)
2. Hardcore tunneling. The killer just wants you dead once he got you for the fist time. Regardless if you DS him, someone blocks him or you get BT... he just wants you dead for no reason. Tunneling during EGC is OK. (Assuming you did not taunt the killer etc.)
3. Tunnel-mori. Never go far from the hook and immediately killing the guy who was just unhooked (or worse: farmed).
4. Pretending to be nice. Who does not hate it, when the Killer seems to give you the hatch before he kills you? Same goes for exit gate switches etc.
Being Killer:
1. Abusing God Loops, never leaving or always going back to it. I can understand to use it sometimes but not always. These guys just piss me off.
2. Tbagging and general taunting at the Exit gates. Just leave guys....
3. Permanent flashlight clicking. This messes with your audio and is solely done to piss you off.
Both:
EZ + (insert random insults here) in chat. We are all adults.... Can't we all be nice to each other?
2 -
Actually being "toxic" as a person in some way, not just playing in an unpopular way or using stuff people dislike.
Even stuff like hard camping or tbagging/other "chase me!" behavior can be tactically sound decisions. If you know the survivors will go for the save no matter what or you know that keeping the killer on you gives the survivors a better chance of winning overall, they're perfectly reasonable things to do. Just like running crazy strong stuff like ebony mori omegablink nurse or turbo "tryhard" 4man SWF with 4 instaheals isn't inherently toxic in any way, it's just using stuff that's in the game and not against the rules.
But if your actual motivation for playing how you play is the very idea of making others angry or upset, then you're genuinely toxic. And there's a weird amount of people that seem borderline or blatantly proud about explicitly "playing for salt" - no matter what or how they play, those are the toxic ones.
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personally i T-bag at gates so they will hit and get points
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First I want to say that it's not toxic using certain perks and add-ons (this includes items on the survivor side). I see a lot of complaining about killers using NOED, when it's completely countable. Just cleanse the five totems and you're good. There's a lot of OP perks and it's your job to know how to counter them.
When playing survivor:
Facecamping and tunneling only one or two survivors - Facecamping in general is a strat (not very effective if the survivors know what they are doing). If the killer facecamps a survivor, then the other survivors should just do gens and get out. The killer will lose the game for only chasing and hooking one survivor. It's not fun for the hooked survivor, but they can help by staying on the hook and not kill themselves or DC.
Tunneling - this is also a strat and again not a very good one. But when ONE survivors gets tunneled whole game, then it's just toxic. Finding a survivor who just got unhooked is not tunneling. If the teammate made an unsafe unhook, then it's their fault. The killer will obviously not give you a free escape just because your teammate did a bad move.
Body blocking - When a killer body blocks a survivor for a good part of the game, then it's toxic. Body blocking can be used as killer to get a hit or if you're Billy or Bubba, get a free down. That's fine by me. But body blocking the whole game is actually mocking the survivor that you caught them and that's toxic.
Spam mori - When the killer has a mori and spam the charge timer is toxic. Just kill the survivor instead of mocking them. BUT I would say doing it a few times to punish a survivor for being toxic is fine by me.
When playing killer:
T-bagging - Let's start with the most popular. A survivor t-bagging after stunning a killer, if the killer missed their attack or at the exit gates it's mocking and toxic. T-bagging when the killer gets DS'ed is also mocking and therefore toxic. T-bagging can be used as a strat to get the killer to follow the survivor in order to save another survivor and therefore fine by me.
Body blocking - If the survivor body blocks a killer so they can't break pallets, that's toxic. Body blocking fellow survivors is also considered toxic IF it was on purpose. Body blocking can happen by accident.
Spamming flashlights - When the survivor spams the flashlight at killers, it's considered mockery and therefore toxic. Again this can be used as a strat to get the killer to follow the survivor in order to save teammates.
In general:
Toxic behavior is when a player play a certain way just to annoy other players. Mocking them in game harassing and cursing at each other in chat post game is all highly toxic behavior.
It's NOT toxic when:
A survivor flashlight saves another survivor.
A killer facecamps end-game to secure a kill.
Killer tunnels a survivor end-game to get a kill.
A killer tunneling/facecamp a survivor who's being toxic (they had it coming)
A survivor t-bagging/spam flashlight a killer who's being toxic (they had it coming)
A killer downing a survivor who just got unhooked (their teammates farmed them)
Downing the same survivor as last time, when they happen to run into the killer again.
Punishing toxic behavior is NOT toxic. (As long as you're not toxic otherwise)
There's probably some things I've missed, but I think this is overall what I find toxic and non-toxic behavior.
2 -
For me, a toxic survivor are the ones who will taunt and t-bag at the exit gate after getting a flawless win. To add to that, the ones who do the above, and also spend the next couple of minutes flashing lights in your face.
Toxic killers are the ones who will facecamp or tunnel any player for that desperate win. I've tunneled a player by mistake several times, when I go for their rescuer I end up downing the hooked player. Anytime I do that, I never pick them up, because in my eyes, it's not a fair play for that survivor.
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What leaps of logic do you have to resort to, to come to the conclusion that using a certain player skin is "toxic" ?
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Toxic as killer:
- Mori spam.
- Hitting hooked survivor multiple times.
- Extreme tunneling (aka when tunneling actually doesn’t provide a benefit).
- Fake friendly attitude, farm and then kill everyone. Imo this is the worse.
Toxic as survivor:
- Flashlight spam.
- Flashlight at every pallet.
- T-bag.
- Head On when it’s not needed.
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I don’t get how tunneling is toxic. Before I came to this forum I did it and still do it. Not out of animosity or grudge or anything. Getting another hook on a survivor will rarely be less beneficial than chasing a different survivor likely at full health. Unless they are good at kiting a killer then it may not be worth the chase when I could be chasing a weaker survivor and getting hooks. Just seems like the most obvious route to take. I guess if you are just endlessly chasing one person while all other generators are finished I can see that but isn’t that the survivor’s goal? Hide or kite the killer till everyone can get out?
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Are you being rude and intentionally trying to make someone feel bad or ruin their fun?
If you answer yes, you’re being toxic.
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When you let a survivor crawl all the way to the exit line just to pick him up and kill him
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Heres a new one. These are becoming common enough that I made a folder on my desktop titled "DBD Salty endgame chats".
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Sometimes when im bored I go around the map and slam all the pallets down prematurely. Then I hide, and when my 3 teammates are dead I use hatch to escape.
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That's toxic AH, lol
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You did somewhat start it with the "looking for hatch?" though, LOL
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Being toxic, would be going out of your way to make the match horrible or, point where your making the game unfair for either the killer or other survivors (or both).
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The guy died from EGC while holding a key and not even TOUCHING a door. It was an actual question.
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Im going to guess that this Match got OUT of control because of Player frustration. The BBQ usually enrages people since I can see WHY someone being found after a Hook. Wouldn't be too happy. I kinda Wish there was perhaps NO chat lobby anymore.
I mean that pretty much IS what happens in competitive chat lobbies. Players don't care about BANS. They will buy a new copy of the game and continue on being toxic.
-Advice for BHVR. -
I owned SRCDS servers on an IBM blade system 2007-2014 and OMG, it was ALWAYS like that. Cheese'd off gamers (not saying server name due to licensing) But I can say that the PROPER method of mitigating toxicity was to MUTE BAN the player vs account ban, so they STILL kept the same copy of the GAME . and just let them play the game. and it KEPT them from talking on my servers. Most players weren't going to fork out money just to drop in again and trash-talk. But if they were account banned. THey were RIGHT back at it.
They still would come to my server. View my ads. generate revenue and of course if they wanted to STILL play on the server (WHICH THEY DID) I made MONEY. Id rather have a FULL server of Muted players, making me ad revenue.
Now if they were cheating on the other hand.. Yeah.. Total ban. 30-60 days. VS permaban. I learned in Psychology the human mind on Risk V reward and how bad behavior works. If I do JUST enough to mitigate the problem. It dials back the issue. Vs if I did total bans. Someone would be more enticed to come BACK and cause MORE issues.
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BBQ is actually not really a problem. The huntress had a rough match and only made any real comeback at the very end. This person was just being rude. I feel like the killer couldve picked ANY killer/perks, and they wouldve still said garbage like this.
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Got tunneled off hook twice in the same game last night by a spirit after I brought in BPS.
Literally the scummiest thing you can do.
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