The problem with what's considered a "GG" and why that concept is twisted now a days...
the concept of a "gg" is twisted with some players
Let's real talk for a second about what makes the game a "good game" for both sides in a match. Cause after I had two matches from the same Killer, one where he destroyed my team and the other where he got destroyed as Spirit... has really opened my eyes to how people consider the game to be a "good game" and it actually makes me quite sad...
Ok, so let me open up the story here than focus on some other things that're kind of... not really ok I suppose? But we'll get into that later.
the first match with the same Killer (short)
So, for the first game I had with this Killer he played Plague with Ruin, Thanatophobia, and some other perks (No Dying Light.) Long story short, our entire team got destroyed because nobody seemed to understand how to... play against her despite the entire team (including me) being in Red Ranks? Like I too struggle with Plague cause i'm not the greatest Survivor, but I didn't expect the ENTIRE TEAM to also struggle...
But, long story short, we all got destroyed and after I was the last one to get downed, he vomits on me like 5 times while i'm downed (basically BMs me) than picks me up and says gg in the match and that was that.
Now here comes the problem in the next game with him
So, the next game is with the same guy actually... and he's playing Spirit instead this time. This Spirit had the same skin as a really toxic Spirit I've seen in Red Ranks, but this could just be entirely unrelated... anyways, I did ok for myself considering I didn't get downed by him surprisingly but still took heavy hits in the match and survived his chases...
The rest of the team got downed a fair bit of times, but we managed to all Survive up until the end when all the generators were finished. I know what someone is thinking after reading that (Oh, so he destroyed your team again and you're crying about it huh?)
Actually... the Ace he had wiggled out of his arm and looped her until the last generator was done... than he deadzoned himself into a corner with no hooks nearby and she waited until the EGC almost was over to hook him. We tried to save him but she wouldn't leave him until he was dead, after he was hooked, we all escaped and that was that.
Now, here's the issue... the tone shifted at the end. He wasn't happy with the results of the match and said it wasn't fun... "wasn't fun" it wasn't fun??? How wasn't it fun... Because you didn't 4k us with a crushing defeat...? I didn't make fun of him or anything post-chat, all I said to him was "If you're actually not happy with the results of this match after the previous match we had... than that's actually depressing..."
Than after that I said "Come on dude, at least you 1k'ed... how wasn't that a good game?" And now it all unfolds... lets talk about what I mean in the next segment below...
The "If I don't 4k it wasn't fun" argument...
Ok so after reading that entire essay above... you kind of get where i'm going with this here? If the Killer (at Red Ranks btw) wins with a 4k and a crushing defeat than we're all considered bad and it's a gg...
But if for example... that same Killer gets beat pretty bad at the end with some decent chases and downs... but didn't 4k... than the game suddenly isn't fun and it wasn't a gg? Wha... what???????????????????????
That makes literally no sense, at all... Like I get that people want to win, nobody likes losing... but if you can't find fun in a loss than I don't know what to say about that man... Like, I've lost a few times as Survivor and I didn't survive... but I still had some fun right? Unless it was a massive defeat where nobody tried and literally nothing happened... than it was fun to lose...
Like, not i'm starting to sound hypocritical but i'll get into that in a second from a Survivors perspective against Spirits and Nurses... and why it isn't fun MOST of the time... (And no, it isn't because of the Killer...)
But like... seriously... i'm not making this up... it wasn't fun to you... because you lost... but when you crush my team and BM me... than it was fun... like... sigh..... big depressed sigh...what a joke...
Now, lets talk about the other issue with survivors
So, that's the argument with some Killers... But here's the other issue with Survivors. Most Survivors don't GG at the end of the match if the die, mostly because they either left the game or they didn't have fun because it was too fast, they died fast, etc, etc...
Now... here's the bigger issue with Survivors. If the game ends in a crushing defeat, 8 out of 10 times nobody will say gg or thought it was fun... But it gets worse from say... my perspective these past 3 days playing Survivor a lot over Killer... and you start to see a pattern here...
A lot of Killers don't care if your teammates DC, before someone says (They're the Killer, they don't have to be nice... it would be nice if they were... but they don't have to) and yeah, that's understandable its up to them... But when you say the game was a "good game" at the end and you had fun... than things get a bit twisted here...
If for example like that first match with that guy... 2 of my teammates kill themselves because things are not going well, than me and one other guy has to suffer and gets destroyed and BM'ed... than its suddenly a GG for some Killers. Notice how I say some, some Killers will kind of understand how that isn't cool and will be like... less serious in the match to win afterwards... (Which they don't have to do)
But if you're gonna go full hard mode on for example... me when all 3 of my teammates DC and leave me to rot... than say it was a gg... than I just don't know what to say... Are you being like, funny? Or did you actually enjoy the entire game grinding to a halt because my 3 teammates DC'ed... and it was only fun because you won?
Like... what? And this issue stems from DCing in-general and people dying on hook, but its becoming a bigger issue now a days... and it was kind of similar a little bit back when I made a post on how the game was suffering heavily from it and I couldn't handle it anymore... and that was when I played Killer... people just DC'ed and left because the game wasn't going their way...
And now its happening again.
dedicated servers
This part is kind of irrelevant, but I wanted to add it in near the end here... What happened to that new DCing system we were supposed to get with Dedicated Servers? Like I know we're still in test 2 (Or I think we're it hasn't really been talked about since test 2 began... like... is this still a test or is this the real Dedicated Servers?)
and since test 2... I've noticed no improvement on the DCing crisis, it's still rampant and people still abuse the system to avoid things they don't wanna play against. This kind of ties into what makes a "gg" a gg... since it kind of becomes twisted in the end...
In conclusion, what really makes a "gg" a good game?
To me, a good game is when both sides had fun, the match was enjoyable, nobody was camped, tunneled off hook to death, the chases were decent and I even got a challenge and chased for a long time, etc.
For me as a Killer main, that's what I think is a good game... the game was fun if both sides had fun and it was a challenge to me personally... the same should go for if i'm a Survivor right? Well... no... sadly not. Like, I treat people in my matches the same way that I would want to be treated as playing Survivor... but that doesn't always reflect itself when I do play Survivor...
In fact, it hardly ever does... and I noticed that a lot when playing ANY rank of Survivor... Some Killers are just toxic and only want an "gg ez win" or something... some Killers just want a serious match and don't care if my team DC's... Some Killers are a bit more compassionate about that and tone it down for the team they're against...
And some Killers just don't care at all about the other side. Same goes for Survivors, some Survivors don't care about the other sides fun and if they enjoyed the game or not... And with everyone saying "gg" if they win and saying nothing or being angry if they don't... I think the concept of a "gg" is kind of... dead now isn't it?
Like, people can play however they want to play it's up to them and I have no right to force you to change or be more compassionate if you don't want to be... But think of it like this, for me, I treat everyone I face as Killer the same way as I want to be treated as a Survivor... Of course I'll sometimes use some broken add-ons to empty inventory with i'm prestiging or when i'm bored... but I won't be overly toxic about it and make people hate themselves for playing in the match...
And like unless its Rank Reset and i'm 4king to get back to Red Ranks... i'll 99% of the time give the last person the hatch or let people escape because I want to be nice about it...
Again, nobody has to do the same things I do... but being a bit nice for the other side can go a long way... and it can really reflect how they act towards others in the future when you do that as well :)
tl;dr
I'm sorry if this TL;DR doesn't really help you engage the conversation without reading that whole exposition dump above... but it's kind of hard to shove all of that into a short thing down here for anyone who doesn't care to read it...
So i'll just say this, to me, a good game is when both sides have fun, it's when everyone enjoyed the game and even if the add-ons were OP or something or the Killer was OP... i'll still treat you with kindness and more times than not let the last person escape...
You'd hope the same thing would happen for me when I play Survivor, but honestly, nobody has to do that if my entire team DCs because it's a spirit, and nobody has to play nice because my team lost someone instantly in the game... But you don't need to be overly toxic about it and BM us because our team got crushed...
Like with the story above, I had a similar issue with the concept of a "gg" for those two matches... a Killer destroyed my team as plague, BM'ed me, than killed me and said it was a "good game" unironically... Fast forward, that same Killer is who's in my lobby the literal next game I play... this time he's a spirit and HE gets crushed and only gets a 1k...
The game suddenly wasn't a "good game" because he didn't get an instant 4k....??????????
Like, the concept of a good game in this meta is quite twisted and isn't really a thing anymore... a lot of people really don't seem to get that these days.
Again, this is kind of short and a lot of people might take that last part the wrong way... so i'll try to explain myself a bit more if you're working off of the TL;DR and... thought something else from what I said...
Comments
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If people only GG when they win, they don’t understand where the sentiment comes from, OR they do understand and are just poor sports. The lack of sportsmanship and camaraderie in this community can certainly be disappointing.
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I think its more so just the... baffling mind-set some people have I guess? Like, it's so depressing when someone says that when they lose because they didn't 4k which apparently is the only way to win... I guess if someone escapes its a loss?
Or if you're a Survivor it's the case with Surviving the match... you can die and still have a good time.
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I would go as far as to say you should GG regardless of whether you had a good time or not. I don’t have fun getting 5 gen’d, but I’m still going to give the killer a GG if they played exceptionally well.
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I think every game is a gg. Only exceptions are keys, moris and toxic behaviour. I write "gg wp" in every other post-game chat.
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why are 2 repeating letters in the end game chat really making you think this hard? most people just move on to the next game, especially if it was super bad or just dont care to stay and debate the other players on what went wrong. if you had fun then so be it, a “gg” shouldnt change that (unless youre a face camper then u dont genuinly deserve any sort of sportsmanship)
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It depends who you're facing and your teammates cooperation during the match. In-general though if people could learn to accept a loss that wasn't given out of an unfair advantage than things would be a lot better...
Of course, people would argue that facing Spirit is unfair, that facing a 1v1 is unfair, etc, etc...
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Because, if you look deeper into the meaning of how people view a win or a "good game" than you'd find that the concept of a "gg" is quite twisted now a days...
Like, a good game isn't based on escape or a 4k every match... and some people can't accept that... which is quite odd considering a loss can be meet with a good game if the challenge or memes or something was there...
If you look deeper into it, its more than just completing the objective that's fun. Of course, some people like completing the objective and it gives them a goal, but i'm just saying that there is more BEYOND that.
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PS4 player so messages are sort of rare to get but I always say "gg" to the killer (typically with a funny meme photo attached) and if I'm playing killer I usually send something funny to the survivor that I interacted with the most. At least for me even the stressful games I try and be fun about.
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I think that the end game chat should be removed from the game, the option to hide it is not sufficient
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I usually write “gg” out of politeness and to show my appreciation for the other players’ time and efforts. If I’m upset about the match for some reason, I don’t write anything or direct my “gg” at specific people.
I don’t expect to escape as survivor or 4K as killer. Therefore my “gg” is more of a “good try” or “well played” than “good game”. Calling a match a “good game” is too vague for me.
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I've just gotten used to say gg after every match. It doesn't really matter how the game went.
If I'm survivor and I'm the first one to die and the game is far from ending and I'm playing solo then I'm not gonna stay around to see if a bunch of randos will escape or die. I think that's the only exception for me. If the killer is really scummy or tunnels me I'll still say "gg" cause I know most scummy killers just want a salty reaction when doing stuff like that. If they play scummy and I survive I'll add an "ez" to my gg though.
For killer I say gg no matter if I 4k or 0k. I don't expect survivors to stay around and say gg back if they died early. If I get into a situation where someone DCs early in the game, I'll go easy on the survivors and just doublehook and then let them escape. I play about both roles 50/50, so I know how it feels to have people DC as survivor, so I can't help but feel bad.
Imo it's good sportsmanship if you say gg whether or not you win. I've said it so much that sometimes I find myself saying gg in chat even I was sacrificed before the game had ended. It's just muscle memory at this point.
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Quote him, perfect answer imo. Nowadays GG is more a form of politeness and mutual respect being in the same lobby and just spent the time together playing, no metter if killers or survivors.
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Respectable.
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That's a good point, and yes its good to look at everything from a brighter perspective!
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Your TL;DR needs a TL;DR. 😄
I always drop a "gg" in post-game chat, regardless of circumstances, unless someone was clearly exploiting or there were a bunch of disconnects. It's just a good sportsmanship thing to me.
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I just say gg after every match to be polite. Doesn't have to be a good match.
Like when you say good morning to a stranger you expect them to say good morning not yell about how terrible their morning has been.
It's a casual passing by exchange like that
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i usually always say "gg" in end chat, no matter weather i lost or won.
however, if they just BMed me all the time and i had literally no fun the entire game, i wont. thats a rare case, however if, lets say 5 gens get done in like <4 minutes, there isnt really a game that could have been good - there barely was any. same goes if they just go out of their way to annoy me, that wasnt a good game, that was pure annoyance. i'm not BMing them, so why do they feel the need to BM me?
despite that, 95% of my games i say "gg".
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I like to say gg at the end of every match because we're all playing and keeping dbd alive while, for the most part, playing very well.
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I just say gg if I'm there at the end... like I've done for almost 20 years of online gaming at this point. Was never an issue until the last few years, people just said it regardless of how the game went and moved on, or left without saying anything. None of this "actually... it was bg!" stuff.
I sorta hate that people look too deep into it. Like I've seen people "read between the lines" and take a simple gg as some subtle brag or taunt, and it's like... no? If people want to do that there's stuff like gg ez for that, not like people are afraid of being open about their taunts and trash talk in this game 😄
EDIT: Not accusing OP of looking too deep into it by the way, sorry if it seemed that way. But it's something I've seen become more and more common the last few years.
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Being on console is a bit different as we don't have a postgame chat. As a killer, I have only been messaged 3 times in a span of a year by survivors complimenting me for my performance, most other times it's a bunch of salty survivors messaging. I even once just a few weeks ago had a survivor abuse the 'follow' feature on PS4 and kept ringing notifications to me the entire match. Sometimes I'll get a couple that want to call me bad even though I got a 4k with 2-3 hooks per survivor.
As a survivor, I'd say I rarely ever say GG myself out of the hundreds of games I played; not because I didn't think it was a good game, but rather I couldn't be bothered with the steps to say it (takes like a 1-2 minutes). I have a few times said GG when I'm playing against a good nurse (respect for you nurse mains on console) or just against a good killer in general that didn't tunnel the ever living crap out of someone or camping. Good map pressure, etc. Even today I said GG to a Huntress that I looped and lost twice (first lasted for a good 2-3 minutes, second a bit over a minute before giving up) and then died on first hook later when I went for a save and heal under hook (and there were still 3 survivors up besides me). I actually get messaged more by other survivors than killers, 90% of the time just wanting to talk smack as I play solo que often. I prefer playing with others that are solo que. I'd say the worst experience as a solo que survivor is playing with a 3-man stack.
I do have killers who will message me GG on console and most of the time it's because we both performed well. I rarely have a killer message me just to talk s**t.
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I don't GG matches that end in 2 miniutes because they simply werent fun. Killer or survivor.
killers who claim the game wasnt a gg unless they got a 4k are probably tru3talent fans.
They get really offended if they say that guy sucks, lol.
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It's like I always say, its better to read a paragraph than it is to read an essay!
...I don't always say that i'm lying...
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Having no post-chat forcefully sounds like a bless than it is a curse...
But I can respect what you're saying, saying gg is kind of subjective at this point... that, and it's just a reflex that literally all players do now in this game.
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That's a good way to look at it.
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Understandable, common curtsy can go a long way for some players. It's best to fight a toxic Killer or Survivor with kindness since most of them are looking for a reaction anyways.
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I get what you mean, a lot of people are taking things a bit too literal now a days and it seems to also be the case with the word "gg." Now people see it as a taunt or to just BM or something...
I think what I was going for in this post though was to touch up on how some people perceive a "good game" to be twisted now a days... since a lot of players consider a loss to be an automatic "bad game" when even a loss can be enjoyable if you got something out of it...
Like, you got a challenge or memes or new friends or whatever... It's not always a bad thing to lose, and even if you 1k you at least killed somone, and even if you died as a Survivor at least 1 person escaped or 2 or 3!
That was kind of what I was going for, but I understand what you mean by people looking... too deep into what people are saying when they write "gg" they take it as an insult sometimes when it's just two letters that's short for good game...
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I also always say GG or GGWP if they played particularly well imo.
For me it's a courtesy just to say thanks for playing the match regardless how anyone decided to play.
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The winner shouldnt gg first, that all there is to be said about the topic. Saying it first is just bragging or rubbing it in.
Other than that, dont tell a killer to be happy with one kill. You probably dont like to be told to appreciate getting just one generator done either.
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At least I got one done rather than none right?
Considering you need to kill 4 Survivors as your ultimate goal, at least you got 1 out of 4 killed... it's better than having a 4 man escape.
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Oh boy to be so upbeat again.
I bet you're one of the few owning a high pressure cleaner to get rid of the saltcrust.
Btw im amazed there are other people who know about a killers goal.
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GG stands for Good Game?
I thought it stood for Git Good.
Guess the community is not as toxic as I thought.
🤔
Well anyways, when playing killer, I will for the most part say gg regardless if I win or not.
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Oh I certainly get what you mean, I guess my post was a more generalized rant in a way.
There's certainly people that would never say gg after losing, and it doesn't help that there's very convenient and commonly used excuses that are more or less memes at this point. Like survivors calling a killer a camper when they never did so in the first place, or killers going on about SWF even when all the survivors were solo players. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, to the people doing that sort of thing it both gives them an excuse for their own loss, and also makes it "not a gg" because they convince themselves the other side didn't win in the "right way".
I can partially agree with this, at least if it's a game where one side crushed the other. Saying it is more or less a habit for me, but this is something I think I should try to keep in mind for those games. If someone gets angry at a GG after a close match where they happened to lose that's honestly their problem though.
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That's the spirit!... I think...
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So true...
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The problem is that “good game”, from a competitive point of view, doesn’t really mean “it was a fun game”, but “it was a fair game, I acknowledge we both did our best”.
in a sport there’s a referee, and “BMing” is sanctioned, sometimes strongly. In DbD there’s no such thing, meaning that sometimes a game is not really “good”.
Not saying gg is the equivalent to not shake hands after a game - I don’t think Zidane and Materazzi did so after France - Italy :)
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I am not used to GG, that doesn't mean I have not fun in a match. That's because I am not used to play online games so I am not used to GG either.
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That's one way to look at it.
Sometimes I wonder if that's the best way to look at it.
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I mean, it's considered a way of showing respect to the other side in a sense also... so sometimes people don't really want to display any respect to a Killer they didn't have fun with.
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That's exactly the point: a lot of dbd players are disrespectful (as it is in basically every multiplayer game community, actually), both in game and post game. This is a dog biting its tail, a circle of BM which will never end: one disrespect another in game / someone likes to make edgy comment post game to troll other players / one starts saying "bad game" even when a game was fair overall just because he or she is an ignorant person which never played some sport in his/her life...
The only thing that's in your abilities is to say "gg" and not reply to any other comment.
...maybe listen to Taylor Swift, haters gonna hate 🕺
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On Xbox this isn't really a problem because people don't extend any messages to each other.
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He's got a point though, that it may have sounded bad to him. You don't know exactly what circumstances were happening on his end though either.
I know I get pissed when I see 3 people leave for what are BS reasons (finding a key for instance) so I probably wouldn't see it as a gg then.
However, I understand you're trying to be an optimist about the game, so that's a noble sentiment.
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A lot of Killers don't care if your teammates DC
I had a killer one match who still went hard on us after 2 DCs and called me salty when I expressed not liking the match. He was just being rude all around. I'll stay and gg even if I lose, unless it wasn't a fun match like the killer tunneled people out of the game, there was a DC, etc. If they're gonna camp me and make me bored, the game isn't good by definition. As killer, I'll dodge the end chat if I feel they'll be toxic. It's always weird when rank "15" survivors will roast you for being bad. It's like, get out of the rank if you think you're so good. You punching down. Then sometimes you get crap maps on both sides and the other side will act like them winning is just purely skill.
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The equivalent would be one person escaping and not how many gens are done, right? Since you can get up to 12 hooks, but there's only 5 gens to do. Regardless, if I was the only one doing gens, I would consider that pretty good for myself, especially if my team were killing each other off. You could technically have a good game, despite only killing one. It's like how you can have a good (and by good, I mean long/fulfilling) game with only one person left if everyone's been hooked twice. You can also have a crap game if people are farming each other or leaving people to die on first/second hook.
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I play respectfully as Killer, no camp, no tunneling, never chase unhooked if I see the unhooker, no ruin, no noed. So even if I get destroyed by Survivors, as long as they dont taugh,tbag. Its a good game to me.
I do think many when 1-2 Survivors able to escape for whatever reason (which is the game balance as 2 alive - 2 dead). Those escaped Survivors tend to be "ezzzz". And that could lead to 4K is a must nowaday.
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Its just salt, no one likes getting crushed; but everyone loves crushing.
To me a ‘GG’ is a close game, but there’s no such thing on DBD. Someone needs to win and someone needs to lose, a survivor can die and pip but a killer can get 2-3 kills and not pip. Makes for a lot of salt.
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I want to add another point to your thread that is semi-related. I've notied a new trend especially with survivors who will claim the game was boring or more often boooooorrriiiing. Whenever a game don't go their way. It can be a perfectly gg/good game with no tunneling/Bm/camping or whatnot, but all fair and fun, BUT if the killer comes out on top EVEN after a long struggle with an even match. Or they used a specific perk, NOED/Enduring/spirit fury. And even one guy that i caught with bloodwarden while he was my rancor obsession said it was "boring", like come on, i personally live for those Oh frick! Moments. Then the killer receives critcism of the match being boring in the end chat.
I don't understand why someone can genuinly think that is boring. Unless! Boring has become the new saying, when your just salty that you lost.
I've seen some killers say this aswell when the match is over to quick or they get looped half the game without dropping the chase, but mostly with survivors.
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I can actually understand the killer's irritation for the 2nd match. I remember being in a similar situation with hooks where a survivor kept running to the corner of the map and staying put. I kept downing them and trying for the closest hook, but theyd struggle off and run back to the corner... Eventually, I just had to watch them bleed out...fun. I still got all his teammates, with this being the last survivor, but his determination to waste both our times just soured the game for me. Your seeing it as he's pissy he didnt get 3 more kills, but it COULDVE just been hes upset that he literally CANT hook the guy he won the chase against. Outplayed I guess.
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A gg for gg takes away from an actual gg. If he didn't feel he had a good game why should he say gg. I myself playing on PS4 only give a gg when I feel it was warranted. I'm not gonna give a gg to a camping/ tunneling killer that gets a 1k or a swf that t bagged and went for unsafe in hooks. What I'm trying to say a gg isn't always warranted.
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GG isn't really so much about the game itself. You say "good game" after sports regardless of how badly you stomped/were stomped. It's just basically a sign of respect as one player to another.
Your examples are pretty mediocre. Ace wiggled off, then just abused a dead zone on the map. Either that's a really unlucky map layout for the killer, or they're going against sabs. Either way, neither of those are enjoyable in the slightest. Saboutaging is just a terrible anti-fun and having someone use it to then basically sit in your face and go "I'm untouchable here," yeah that's pretty BM.
As killer, I always try to say GG unless they were actively ######### (or are a 4 stack with 16 second chance perks) but I've got to say, I almost NEVER get a GG back unless it was a 3-4 person escape.
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On PS4, I have messaged a couple of killers who were being nice or played extremely well to compliment them. Not a lot, but I have. Killers have messaged me before saying good game and I reply back to them saying good game as well. I don't play toxic, play solo, and hardly use insta heals or keys for survivor. If anything, I've had other survivors send hate mail instead of killers. They were probably SWF.
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