Need help dealing with SWF "gen-rush" tactics
Hey all,
I'm a new player been playing a mix of survivor and killer, mainly playing huntress as killer and i've hit rank 14. I seem to have a hit a brick wall at this rank and have been facing a lot of 4 player SWF groups who all stick on one gen.
This issue I'm having is that when i get to the gen the four of them will split off into seperate directions and if i chase anyone the other three loop back onto the gen. So if i chase even for a min they get the gen done. Now even if i do down a player they will often send one off to get the hook and the other two will run to a far off gen, I make a point of moving away from the hook to avoid camping as such they often get the surv off the hook and get another gen a good way done.
I know there are certain perks i can get to help with this, but i don't have them yet, I did recently purchase pop goes the weasel but it's not helping a huge amount as more often than not the gen is already completed by the time i down and hook the person i'm chasing.
Just wondering what if anything i can do to help deal with this?
Comments
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In reality it just comes with game sense. As a killer you will learn to not fall for obvious baits such as luring you way across the map, or run you to an infinite.
If you know a gen is being worked on and its pretty far into progressions and survivors scatter and there is one obvious survivor trying to lure you away, don't do it. If it is a 4 man swf like you say they will likely have a teammate who is good at running and looping, avoid this person always and go search for the others nearby the gen that is almost done.
Other perks that will slow down the game are the obvious ruin and depending on which other killers you have, Thanataphobia (Every survivor in the injured or dying state adds a slow down stack to all actions), Mangled Butcher (makes healing after taking a hit longer, also makes their blood trails easier to follow), Discordance (allows you to see generators being worked on by multiple survivors at a time), Surveillance (allows you to see generators that are being worked on once they have started regressing), Pop Goes the Weasel which you already said you have.
There are more perks of course such as Dying Light, heck even Huntress Lullaby is insanely good if you get all the stacks on it. In reality though most of this will be addressed with experience and time in the game, learning the maps, learning how survivors loop and play. Good luck though!
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Gen Rush SWF? Super toxic to boot? You’re okay with depipping? Perfect! I’ve got 2 words for you then: Blood Warden.
Act like a super noob. Miss most of your attacks. Attack first when damaging gens, pallets, or when you’re at vaults (it looks like you’re a noob still learning the right buttons to push). Easily lose them during chases. Get pallet stunned and flashlighted. Carry someone to a hook that’s too far away. You get the picture.
Let them gen rush. Open the gate yourself like you’re just through with all this (to get the EGC timer started). Walk away. Even though you’re far from the gate, the toxic ones won’t be able to resist butt-dancing circles around you!
When the EGC timer gets below half, you suddenly find your skills! Down a survivor (maybe with your first NOED hit?). Hook him, but defend the hook poorly. Let him come down to speed the EGC timer back up. Follow them to the exit. Watch them panic as the timer ticks to zero while the gates are blocked! Then enjoy as the Entity feasts on all 4 of them at once!!! 😈😈😈
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Slug, it’s really the only way.
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At such low ranks slugging is definitely not the only way. Even in red ranks slugging isn't necessary unless you are going against an insanely coordinated 4 stack that are pumping out gens fast.
At low ranks people probably aren't even in a 4 man swf, a lot of killers just think they are.
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In all seriousness though, there’s not really a lot you can do against a coordinated group of survivors. SWF often uses comms as well. “Hey, he’s chasing me, you guys are safe to work on the gen.”
I might recommend Sloppy Butcher and try to spread the pain around before committing to downing anyone. This will make them spend more time on healing than gens. By the time they’re healthy, you’ll hopefully have someone on a hook for them to save. At this point, you’ve increased your map pressure by forcing them to change their focus.
It may take a while to get good at that, so don’t worry. At rank 14, you actually run in to a lot of very talented survivors who purposely disconnect and derank just so they can beat up on newer killers.
Just do your best and have fun. If someone taunts you and you can just never seem to hit them, then leave the chase and resume your gen patrol. They may follow you around clicking that little flashlight of theirs, but you know what they’re NOT doing? Gens!
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4-man on one gen is actually not the optimal play for survivors.
It's easily countered by Discordance. You can also run Ruin since you said you are able to find the gen and the three come back. 3 survivors at Rank 14 on a gen are not going to break it and be put into skill check hell most likely.
Or just walk back to the gen and hit them again. Run Sloppy Butcher so they're all bleeding like nuts when you hit them as they come back to the gen.
Run other gen slowdown methods like Thana so you have more time to whack the moles. You can also use Overcharge.
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You must camp and tunnel. They'll play very altruistic, so camping and tunneling will punish them.
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Huntress is really map-dependent, and you need to be able to reliably hit hatchets in order to create pressure. She has a hard time with map pressure because she's so slow, and you need a lot of game sense to avoid making mistakes and fight back when you encounter these kinds of tactics. Gen slowdown perks like Pop Goes the Weasel and Hex: Ruin are a pretty big help, too.
I don't want just want to be like "Use a different killer," but I personally find that I really struggle with Huntress as I start climbing the ranks, because she takes so much mechanical precision and map awareness to excel with.
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Just pick nurse and lea.. Oh wait, she's nerfed soon. Pick up spirit and learn her.
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Use a perk like Ruin or Corrupt Intervention that gives you pressure at the very start
Avoid chasing a single survivor for a long time, if they are running you in circles for forever its ok to break away and look for someone else. Understand that when you are chasing someone in a SwF the other 3 know you are not going after them and know your location. These are the moments gens are going to be rushed, hard.
End chases as quickly as possible (yes this means some killers that are bad at ending chases quickly will get screwed over by SwF nearly all the time, welcome to dbd)
SwF want to escape together, this means they will always come to save their friend whether this means unhooking them or healing. Camping the hook or Nurse's Calling are good perks for this reason.
And finally, good SwF that focus on gen rushing will win a lot of time even if you play perfectly, nothing you can do unless your Freddy, Spirit, Billy and Nurse.
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Maybe try learning the Hag for a good all-around strong killer that’s relatively easy to pick up, but can develop deep strategy as you improve.
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Lol teaching terrible "strategies" is NOT the way. Camping and tunneling have their place and time, but not every single game you "Think" the survivors are a 4 man swf. There are way better solutions that will actually teach you to play the game and improve your skill in the process.
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Hey all, thanks for the advice some really useful stuff here.
I only have the default killers (trapper, wraith, billy, nurse and killer) i've played all of them for a couple of matches mainly for the daily stuff and I find huntress is the only one i truely enjoy. I know i'm not fantastic with the hatchets but I'm getting better the only real stuggle i have is people hiding behind the half walls such as on autohaven.
I see a lot of abuse thrown around by people about certain perk such as noed so I've been avoiding using them (I've also been advised not to get used to relying on it as higher rank survivors will usually kill all the totems)
I think one of the major points here is knowing when to count a chase as a loss and break off and also just accepting that some matches are likely a loss from the start.
I'll certainly look into the other perks people have mentioned and try and get some of them to try out.
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For huntress, a specific perk build. Mine is: "Barbeque and Chili", "Hex: Ruin", "Iron Maiden" and "A Nurse's Calling". For more gen pressure you can use "Pop goes the Weasel" instead of "Iron Maiden".
I would go with exhaustion+fast hatchets or instadown+more hatchets.
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She will still be deadly man just wait for it.
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Yeah i'd love to get Barbeque and Chili and ruin. Unfortunatly I don't own Hag or Cannibal so i'll need to wait for them to come on the shine of secrets
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Just try to pay attention to indivivudal generator progression. You can use discordance which will tell you what generators are being worked on by two or more people. However, you are really best to use pop goes the weasel. down a guy, hook him, smash the gen for instant 25% + regression. He gets off the hook? no biggie. Down him again, another generator instant 25% regression. It's hard to get used to, but you can basically reset a generator to 0 if you are applying enough pressure alongside either of these perks. then, when all your gens are safe, and you are down to 3 or less survivors, then you can start worrying about what that guy is doing. I wouldn't worry about rank atm if you are new also.
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It might feel that you are facing super coordinated swf due to your lack of experience. Personally I have only faced that kind of swf once in my 1600 hours (granted I play both sides kinda equally).
If interested some basics about map pressure.
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Thanks for that vid, i've already watched a lot of his stuff and it really helped. You could be right that I over assume a 4 man swf but i've played a lot at midnight GTM recently and seem to get a number of swf teams that are really obvious around that time.
I had one yesterday where two of them had head on perk and whoever I was chasing would run past the locker at some point and get me stunned. That kinda coodination is insane and I ended up leaving, they also had two instant heal kits and two Odd bulbs.
I Personally find the ranking system is pretty much useless, you rank up far too quickly and the spread of skill is much too high, as a new killer i'm already rank 14 going up against rank 10's who have significantly more experience/skill than me
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Whatever you do, dont use thana it is a horrible perk with almost no effect.
Get more experience and try to figure out what you did wrong. Learn how to run tiles etc..
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That's what I would do. Take it or leave it.
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Slugging is very strong but tryhard swfs can counter it anyway. Luckily they aren't too common, especially at your rank.
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Yeah and I'm suggesting leave it. All that will do is have survivors disconnect more frequently on him, teach him scumbag tactics at a rank he does not need to be using them in.
Not every group you go against is a try hard 4 man swf even if you think so. Like I said earlier, camping, tunneling and slugging have their time and place, but not every game and not immediately from the start. Especially in Brown - Green ranks.
If you are in red ranks, and you KNOW you have gone against this set of survivors before, and you KNOW they will sweat and try hard and be super altruistic then yeah, go full on sweat and try hard yourself, you will have to.
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Alright, my two cents-
If you're worried about people constantly running back to the gen, and you're playing huntress, keep them guessing. It's why I've been running Whispers, which is really helpful to find survivors, and it's often helped me recognize which gen they've been on, and helped me win the game before.
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I don't even have any real answers for this guy as I'm a new player myself. But man you all make it sound so easy. I'm rank 12 killer right now facing 4 man swf 9 out of 10 times and have tried everything you all have said and literally none of it seems to work.
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Coordinated survivors will win for free, even if the killer is extremely good.
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Thats the thing, a lot of killers think they are going against a coordinated 4 man swf when most of the time they aren't. More than likely you are going against either 2 groups of SWF or just skilled survivors who de-ranked or are playing after rank reset.
Also even if they are a 4 man at low rank they are much easier to deal with than the 4 man SWF that many new killers have seen watching youtube videos.
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Basically all I'm saying is, a loss doesn't mean "Oh well they were a pro 4 man coordinated SWF"
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Pop goes the Weasel is an overrated perk. It helps you when the game is going well for you already, it doesn't help you when you are struggling.
Try slugging. When you down somebody and you know another survivor is near, let the downed person on the ground and chase the other survivor. If you down survivors fast enough, that's a good way to put pressure on them.
As a new player learning Huntress, you will still have a hard time. Don't get disencouraged and keep going!
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Thanks for the replies guys, I said earlier that I likely do mistake a 2-3 man SWF for a four man, but i certainly get some as they confirm it in chat after (Often the 4 man swf are far more polite and helpful actually)
I'm starting to learn a little, my friend just got me cannibal so i can get Barbecue & Chilli which i'm sure will help, although i also played a handful of games as him and actually really enjoy him.
As for camping, tunneling etc. I will go out of my way to avoid the hook after hooking someone unless the survivors are stupid/cocky enough to rush in, I've literally had survivors standing next to me as I hook who when i down them complain about hook camping.
I have on occasion actually camped tho, who I face a group of survivors who are clearly much better than me and they start to t-bag and such I usually camp the hook, 9 times out of 10 they will refuse to let it go and will turn a 4 man escape into a 3 kill just because they refuse to accept a single loss.
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I agree. I was talking about red ranks, by the way. They will always try to save their teammates no mather what, so that's why you should camp and hook another surivivor if you want to, that way no pressure is gone.
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What you're describing doesn't sound like a SWF to me. I run solo 99.9% of the time and I use Bond and always try to work on gens with another teammate so if a killer chases either of us off, someone can finish it. You don't need to be talking to friends to know if the killer is chasing someone, the others should go back and finish a gen. There are survivors who run and hide the second they hear a heartbeat, and survivors who gleefully repair a gen while a teammate is being chased right next to them.
Also, if I'm on a gen with a teammate and someone is hooked, we don't both leave the gen to make the save. Sometimes one teammate just leaves first, or someone points to the hook and goes back to the gen. This happens all the time when I play solo.
Have you tried Surveillance and Brutal Strength if you want to kick gens? Surge could help too and maybe Bitter Murmur?
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Say whaaaa!?
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You think thana is useful? Just do the math and you will see it has little to no effect at all even when you manage to have 4 injured survivors.
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Just a heads-up, Ruin is on the shrine of secrets right now.
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Gen pressure, not hook guarding, is key. Pick a side of the map and protect those gens. Take time to kick the gens. Don't get lured on long chases that get longer at infinite loops. When you hook someone, move to the most likely gen the others are on and kick it. If you are in a chase and you see someone working a gen, wait until line of sight on them is broken and swing back by to get a quick hit and move them off the gen.
Your timing and judgment will improve over time. 4 man SWF that are skilled are not the common group, but can be annoying. Franklin's and NOED are useful tools to deal with those 4 man groups that derank just to torture new killers. Don't let them get to you and don't complain after game. Use it as a training opportunity. Learn what they do and try to adapt.
Oh, and drop the whole "gen rush" thing. It is born of a victim mentality that becomes a crutch. Survivors have nothing but gens as an objective. Good killers can pressure gens and counter gen speeds, but it is harder to do so when you learn on the gen rush crutch.
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I know that problem as killer and survivor. as killer you will have to commit to a chase. they will finish the gen either way. but before you commit you can gather your free hits on everyone if they stay close and keep running back. Survs are sometimes really greedy.
playing swf i had those plays often. when you want to finish a gen badly. and it have to be that one. it also has some kind of thrill to finish a gen in the face of the killer. i just realized how much i would i hate myself playing against me as surv.
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Seems to work for me very well i find. But that said, i'm not up there in rank 1 territory.
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Change thana for anything else, tell me if the results differ. Check the actual numbers and what they apply, i think you would win those games without thana as well as the effect that it applies is so little it hardly matters.
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