First Hook Suicide Is The Same As Disconnecting
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What if you had green ping in the lobby and suddenly in match I'm dealing with horrendously bad Lag. Should I report you for obviously lag switching or some other stupid thing? Nah I'll die on my wonderful first hook.
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Dude what do you want from us? It’s A GAME MECHANIC. Go and convince the devs to remove the option to unhook yourself.
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It's poor sportsmanship, but it isn't the same as disconnecting. At the very least the killer gets his/her BBQ token.
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Have you considered it's the little shits on their team that made them hook suicide?
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That actually wouldn't be a bad idea, remove self unhooking unless you have deliverance or slippery meat, make it so once you get hooked you have to wait till you reach 2nd state to struggle or get saved.
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Make struggling automatic, too. Both because it prevents suicide and also, more importantly, people hate the mechanic anyways.
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“This person followed the rules, and used completely legitimate in game mechanics. I don’t like this! It’s the same as disconnecting! Shame on you!”
Stop being a clown. If someone wants to suicide on hook they’re completely within their right to.
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It's within the mechanics of the game and something people can do thanks to how hook stages work. It's not instant like a DC and doesn't deny nearly as much as an actual DC does.
Is it annoying? Yes, for both sides. But it's not something I would want any sort of automated system to attempt to detect beyond "if you do it in the first X minute(s) of the match, it counts as a DC/ragequit".
Beyond that point it can be a genuine altruistic sacrifice that doesn't break the way the game is supposed to work. Like if someone's suiciding on hook to give someone hatch, the killer gets some actual warning in advance about it. Unless they completely rework hook stages and all perks that interact with the hook in any way there's no realistic way they even could get rid of it if you ask me.
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Of course you dodged my other comments pointing out how it being a part of the game does not make it right.
Sure! And if someone some day finds a way to become unkillable through a bug in game; well, they weren't cheating! It's in the game and it was their right to use it until it's removed. Same with Hook Suiciding to avoid DC punishments.
I guess both are okay; it's in the game so it's within their rights to abuse it, even if it screws over their teammates. Because hook suiciding does screw over the 3 remaining players. Stop thinking it does not.
It's genuinely disgusting how many players on this forum will use any excuse to avoid admitting the truth:
If you hook suicide on first hook to avoid a Killer/Perk(s), then you are a horrible player & ruined the match for 4 other people.
But sure; keep putting your fake salve on your conscience! Keep telling yourselves 'It's in the game, so it's not the same! (Hint: YES IT IS THE SAME! You are bailing on the match the first time you are hooked, leaving your teammates screwed & denying the Killer BP. THE SAME EXACT THING DISCONNECTING DOES!)
Stop being a clown. Stop defending toxic practices that actually RUIN matches for people.
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Would you prefer a player who doesn't want to be in the game, run around and drop pallets, go gather items from chests and drop them in the basement or get rehooked after you dehook them so that you lose your unhook points?
You cannot force someone to play just because you think its unfair if they don't.
People play this game individually to have fun. And if a Map/Killer/Perks Setup, is just going to make them hate the game, then taking a one hook death is legit.
I bet you are the same type of person that complains about weaker players. If they are not as strong as you are they also RUINING your game?
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Wow. Sure. Go for an ad hominem. Attack me. 'He must be bad so his argument is therefor bad!'
It goes to show how little of a counter-argument there is against me.
The whole point of fixing first hook suicides is manyfold:
1) Remove the struggle mechanic. People hate it anyways. Make struggle automatic.
1A) After someone has been Sacrificed/After the hatch appears, allow a 'give up' button. So people can give up on struggling to give someone the hatch.
2) 'If people can't struggle, they will just afk/run at the Killer/whatever.'
While TRUE; these things are outright reportable after a match ends. Which gets people punished.
3) 'If people can't suicide or leave matches they don't like, they will stop playing!'
..Is this a bad thing? When they DC/Suicide, they are RUINING THE MATCH for up to 4 other people. Do we WANT to keep people in a game that they ARE NOT PLAYING because of something childish like 'I don't like the Nuuuuuurse! WHAAAAA!'
Let's make something clear; there's this thing called 'Sportsmanship'. When you sit down to play a game, be it with friends of over the internet, you generally are expected to ACT LIKE A DECENT HUMAN FREAKING BEING! Don't cheat, don't abuse bugs, and FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED BECAUSE 4 OTHER PEOPLE ARE DEPENDING ON YOU TO NOT BE A SCRUB.
Everyone defending fist-hook suicide: Do you know WHY Disconnecting is bannable? IT'S BECAUSE IT RUINS THE GAME FOR 4 OTHER PEOPLE!
Do you know WHY I think suiciding on the first hook because 'Buuuh! I don't like Rancor! I dun like the Nurrrrse!' is bannable? IT'S BECAUSE IT RUINS THE GAME FOR 4 OTHER PEOPLE!
So don't give me ANY garbage about 'People should not be forced to play.' Blah blah blah.
YOU decided to play. That means YOU accept the good matches AND the bad, because when you scrub out? IT RUINS THE GAME FOR 4 OTHER PEOPLE!
Do you GET IT yet?
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I made a similar post earlier but was a little more belligerent towards the survivor community and it was removed. Glad you were able to get the same sentiment out without insulting anyone.
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When its super obvious that THAT is what a survivor is up to when they go out of their way to find me, and just point at the hook within the first minute... I'd rather just slug them. If you wanna waste my time by joining a lobby you had no intention of playing in, ill waste 4 minutes of YOUR time by letting you bleed out.
Had a teammate the other day do this by only running OoO and naming himself "depip me". I dont get how anyone can argue that this is "TECHNICALLY" still playing.
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It's the exact same and it should 100% be there. It's also the reason they shouldn't punish disconnects. You can't force people to be good teammates. If you force someone to stay in a game they don't want to play, they won't just magically be a better teammate. They will troll/just let the killer hook them a 2nd time by running to them/do nothing until the game ends. The only thing that punishing disconnects or removing 1st hook suicides will do is negatively impact the game with unnoticeable benefits. Look at league of legends for example. They have a punishment for leaving games early. So people don't often rage quit. But, "soft inting" is extremely common and is when someone goes around refusing to play the game out normally or try to win. They just farm jungle or shove side waves until they lose the game. The punishment for quitting doesn't make these people better teammates than if they were just gone from the game. It's impossible for Behavior to figure out if someone is playing badly or soft inting. There are A LOT of people who are terrible at DBD. There is no way to distinguish those bad players from someone who is purposely soft inting or honestly even hard inting in this game's case. You will always have these kinds of bad teammates and there's nothing they can do about it without punishing people for doing badly.
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Ah, of course. So your solution to people being terrible teammates and ruining everyone else's game and experience is to not punish them. Sometimes people have bad games, sometimes you suck at the game, so regardless of the massive amount of reasons for why someone should be punished, you make excuses for why they shouldn't and are part of the problem.
If there was actual punishment for people, they wouldn't do it. If we sat here and said "We can't do that, people would 100% leave our game!" or whatever reason you wanna place here to justify disconnecting, then not only are you absolutely wrong, but you're absolutely rewarding that behavior and not putting any effort in to discourage it.
And then people like you come along who think it's fine and attempt to justify it. "It's okay because I don't do it all the time, but if (x situation here) arises I shouldn't be forced to play the game if I don't want to!" Yes. You should. They should.
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My comment is saying that there's literally nothing they can do to prevent people from being bad teammates without punishing anyone for doing badly. Which if they do that, they won't have a playerbase.
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One hook deaths do not ruin the game for 4 people. The killer gets his full points for the kill not just a quitter bonus.
If anything the Killer just keeps on playing. The remaining survivors have a harder time but that's just life.
But you need to remember, everyone is free to play this game how ever they like. And pulling a one hook death to get out of a game , that the player isn't going to enjoy anyways, is fully legal, and should be an option for everyone.
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Theres a difference between someone playing the game the way they like, and someone choosing to not play at all. This is the equivalent of a basketball player sucking at basketball, vs a basketball player taking the ball and going home.
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Lets get the Halloween event first then worry about punishments.
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The biggest reasons why I see people DC as survivor is if they are going against Nurse (Many feel its impossible to escape her, even if you evade her really good nurses at red rank will literally stick on you like glue), Spirit, Iridescent Head Huntress, Billy (insta down, incredible speed / map pressure), camping and tunneling.
I play killer mostly but when I do see killers DC its usually due to an SWF bringing Haddonfield offering, or ruin getting taken out instantly.
Oh also as killer I have seen teammates sandbag each other such as trying to pass off the killer on someone else when the other player has no idea, the sandbagged player will DC sometimes.
I agree that DC'ing has become more prevalent but honestly the root cause is the issues above. You can say tunneling and camping are legitimate strategies, but in reality no one wants to play against that, in any game ever.
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I honestly don't care if someone DCs/Suicides. It means that they probably weren't being productive anyway. Hell, either the killer is chill enough to alter their tactics to accommodate the bullshit or I feel a bit empowered to take more risks in getting chased because I know the game is already stacked in the killer's favor anyway.
Survivor main with 1k hours, for reference.
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There's a difference between exploiting something that is clearly not working as intended and using something that's in the game and working as intended. Comparing the informed abuse of bugs/exploits to dying on the hook on purpose isn't fair at all.
Dying on purpose on the hook is simply not struggling. When you don't struggle in phase 2, you die. And when you try to kobe in phase 1, you probably get yourself closer to death most of the time. It's how the game works and how it's currently supposed to work.
Don't get me wrong, it's annoying when people just give up immediately. But as actual disconnections are still a problem it's without a doubt the lesser of two evils as at least hook suicides are within the mechanics of the game (consumes a hook, gives stacks + points, doesn't instantly open the hatch and so on).
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I suicide on the hook, i admit it.
But usually it has nothing to do with the killer or his perks.
Instead, it has to do with my fellow survivors (note that i play solo most of the time).
Its not uncommon in sologames to have other survivors lose the killer not by juking, but bringing him to you (and i mean by purpose, not by accident), unhooking you without bt the moment after you were hooked (the killer is standing there and not even hitting them, he is waiting for you to be unhooked), bodyblocking you so the killer gets you instead of them, making noise intentionally while you do whatever to notify the killer, and such.
A lot of surivors a very toxic, and i dont want to play with such people. DC is forbidden, suicide is not.
Solution: Be a decent survivor, dont only think about yourself, and dont mess up your fellow survivors.
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No, it really isn't If the game has the mechanic built into it. Than it should be removed. If players want to risk their 0.0001% chance of pulling on the hook to get off the hook. Let em. Why not have the development team increase the odds to 40, 60 or even 100% chance (WITHOUT PERKS) to do it?
Discuss...
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That's been my point. Hook suicide happens alot due to teammates.
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I first hook suicide vs Mori :)
I saw someone else get mori'd? I'm out. Bye.
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Oh good. So you admit that you ruin the game for other people. Congrats on being part of the problem, please grow up or stop playing.
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Why I disconnect and how they can fix it.
The second I hear the Nurse's screech I DC. If I have incredibly stupid teammates who are making the game impossible, I will DC. If i'm in a game where i'm going to get very few points and definitely won't pip I will either run to the killer and suicide on hook, or I will DC. Basically, if the game is going to be incredibly frustrating and isn't going to be a good game for me I leave.
They can fix this by simply adding in better incentives for me to stay in bad games. Currently there are none. Punishments won't do anything because I would rather DC from a game that is annoying me a lot and go play something else than sit in a game I don't want to be in. If you give me a rewarding enough thing to keep me in the game, I'm much more likely to stay and play the game out than I am to suicide first hook or leave. Punishments are not the solution to fixing bad teammates and they haven't done that in any other game that has punishments.
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What the hell else can they give you besides BP? Actual money? If PLAYING THE GAME is not incentive enough to play the game and earn BP, then stop playing and go away.
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Everyone is entitled to play the game their own way. Key words: play the game. DCing/Suiciding on first hook is NOT playing the game - it's removing yourself from play. It's hilarious a lot of these posts are echoing "Play how I want" as a defense for not playing at all. Your objective is to survive - period. If you don't want to survive, don't queue up...don't play. It's really that simple.
Now, how can the devs fix this or recognize intent? You're right, they can't recognize intent. They can, however, change game mechanics to reduce the survivors' ability to exit the game on their terms. The only reason you should be exiting the game is A) You were hooked 2-3 times by the killer, B) The EGC killed you, C) You escaped.
The SOLUTION: Remove the struggle mechanic. You can Attempt in Stage 1 as normal, it will get you to Stage 2 faster. However in Stage 2 you must bleed out on the hook, you can no longer let go.
How does this fix it? Well, it's easier to detect intent and record a player not moving or running around the map griefing by throwing pallets down. It is NOT easy to detect intent from struggle phase. So just get rid of that mechanic altogether.
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Bloodpoints are irrelevant after a certain point. Once you get the meta/good perks on a character you care about, you don't really need them that much. They aren't an incentive to care about gameplay. There are lots of different things they can do. A while ago I said they should have had cosmetics tied to various levels of devotion. It would incentive people to DC less and stay in the game longer. The battle pass will do exactly that for me. I haven't played the game almost at all since they announced it in June because it's the progression that I've wanted for a long time and couldn't care about the game until it came out. Every single successful multiplayer game has some form of progression system. The ones that don't die. I guarantee that you can't think of a single successful major multiplayer game that doesn't have a progression system
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Actually it's not the same as disconnecting you're playing by the rules of the game *you got hooked and you died* just because you whine saying nonsense like *it's the same as DCing* doesn't make it true keep your head canon to yourself who are you to tell people how to play THEIR GAME THEY PAID FOR WITH THEIR MONEY?
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Not everyone is trying to suicide, sometimes bad internet is to blame. It only needs to lag for a second or two during the struggle phase and you die.
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I agree. It's in some ways more irritating as the survivor gets BP and doesn't risk a ban. A real eye-ball roller. It can be seen as a safe d/c though and the game does give the player the option of hook escape attempts.
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Stuff happens sometimes. Sometimes I'm in the middle of a game and I get a phone call, or someone knocks on my door and I can't play that round. I don't see why people are getting so upset about a dc, hook suicide or afk. There's always the next game. Sure it's tougher, but you're still playing the game, even if people are leaving the game. I had one of my most fun games recently when one person dc'd and another did a hook suicide.
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