Kill With Friends: The Clear Answer to Voice Chat
Kill With Friends!
Yes, Kill With Friends, the brand new game play mode for Dead By Daylight!
What will Kill With Friends look like? What will it accomplish? Well, it will look cool. And, it will accomplish almost everything.
The Four Sacred Pillars of Kill With Friends!
1: Two Killers join a Trial together.
2:
A: Survive With Friends Survivors are only ever matched with Kill With Friends Killers.
B: Solo Join Killers can slot into Single Killer Games or Kill With Friends Games.
C: Solo Join Survivors can slot into Single Killer Games or Kill With Friends Games.
3: Everyone gets a Solo Join Killer Rank, a Kill With Friends Killer Rank, a Solo Join Survivor Rank, and a Survive With Friends Survivor Rank.
4: The official ban rules are amended to clearly state that voice chat is fair and not cheating for Killers playing Kill With Friends and for Survivors playing Survive With Friends. But, that voice chat is cheating and players will be banned if Solo Join Survivors lobby hop to get into a game together and use voice chat against Solo Join Single Killer Games.
The Wisdom of the Four Sacred Pillars of Kill With Friends!
1: To my knowledge, no other asymmetric horror game to date has Killer Group Join. At least, no major ones come to my mind. This will be a feature plus for Dead By Daylight. Imagine how many players would love to team up with their friends to play Killer. Imagine all the cool strategies that would combine with two Killers using their powers together. New friendships could be made and DBD would have a tight knit community of Kill With Friends groups that are as tightly bonded as friends, and to the game, as Survive With Friends groups are today.
2: Ok, so Pillar two might sound confusing. So, let me break it down. The main point is that Survive With Friends can only join Kill with Friends. But, these lobbies can also have solo joiners. That way, if I want to play against two Killers as a Survivor or play with another Killer, I can still join one of these games even if I’m just joining alone. This will allow the lobbies to fill quicker. There are a lot of Survive With Friends groups that just have three people, for example. This would allow a Solo Survivor to jump in to fill the slot so that everyone can start playing. A Single Killer game should never be paired with Survive With Friends. It’s just plain and simply not fair. Even with voice chat being officially called cheating and able to have player banned for it; it would still be a logistics nightmare for Behavior to enforce. Cutting down that enforcement to being just for single Killer games that single join Survivors lobby hop into to try to cheat with voice chat would make enforcement much easier. In this way, we now have two DBD experiences. The Original game concept, and the new team against team concept.
3: Pillar Three will allow people to really brag. People will rank based upon what type of a game they join, the original experience or the team against team experience. So many times people say, ‘So and so is only a rank such and such Survivor because they voice chat cheat in Survive With Friends and their team carries them.’ Well, now we’ll know who can rank up as a Solo Survivor and who works best in a team experience.
4: Voice chat is no longer cheating and is now part of the new DBD Team Experience! Voice chat only becomes cheating when used against a Solo Killer in a Solo Killer game. This makes the new DBD Team Experience a truly modern team game for both sides. Modern games are expected to have teamwork, voice chat, and group join. But, fair is fair. Voice chat is only cheating right now because it only gives one side an unfair advantage. Right now Survive With Friends are playing a team game on their side while Killers are still playing a Solo Game on their side. A solo game that has been balanced as a solo join experience. But, if both sides can play as teams, and both sides have voice chat, then there is no unfair advantage. The advantage is the same for everyone. Sure, Survivors will still loop and tell their friends where the Killers are and always know where each other are. But, now that’s not cheating. That’s team work. Because now, the Killers always know where each other are and can tell each other where Survivors are. The Killers can now plan attacks with one Killer rushing a herd of Survivors towards the other Killer or traps the other Killer has laid down.
Addressing Concerns:
Q1: Won’t this make Solo Killer Games obsolete? Won’t this divide the player base?
A1: Most likely, yes, Solo Killer Games will become obsolete. It’s sad to say, but I don’t think we’ll have very many Survivors Solo Joining Solo Killer Games. They have had a long time getting used to working as Survive With Friends Teams and most prefer playing this way. The option should still be left open for people who want to try to get enough joiners to play the original concept of the game. But, I do imagine most will want lobbies that fill quickly and that will be the new team experience. I’d rather have a fair game than to hold on to the currently broken model of Survive With Friends having a team game on one side and a Solo Killer on the other. Fairness is more fun to me than nostalgia. Sure, it’s not the original concept for the game. But, it’s a game that will be fair, fun, and balanced. Many perks have evolved as the Devs realized how people have changed how they play the game. This is the game itself evolving in the same way and for the same reason. I don’t feel that this will divide the player base, however, as most Survivors already play Survive With Friends Voice Chat. So, what we’ll see would be a migration rather than a division.
Q2: Hold on a minute! Two Killers against Four Survivors? That hardly seems fair!
A2: I can see your point. While the original concept option should stay one Killer and four Survivors, I do think that the new team game will likely require six to eight Survivors to be fair. A lot of internal testing, as well as PTB or two, will be required to see how many Survivors really is a fair number against two Killers. It should be truly balanced, fair, and fun for both sides.
Q3: What about Generators and Hooks?
A3: Once the number of Survivors needed for fairness is locked in, the number of Generators and Hooks spawned into the map, as well as the number of Generators that need to be completed to open the Gates, will be determined. There will need to be more Hooks to hook the additional Survivors on and a larger number of Generators will need to be completed to open the Gates. More Generators will need to spawn to make completing the new higher generator goal fair to perform. More chests may need to spawn as well, to make sure there are enough items to go around for fairness as well. There will be more Survivors, so the chests spawned should increase to match the new number of Survivors.
Q4: That sound like a lot of stuff spawning into the Maps. Are these Maps big enough?
A4: If the number of Survivors needed for fairness turns out to be six, then maybe. If it’s higher than six, then probably not. The maps may need to be extended to provide a larger playing field for the larger number of players, hooks, generators, and chests.
Q5: What about lag and Server Cost? Won’t this be expensive?
A5: I wouldn’t think so. I’m no expert, but Friday the 13Th on its model has one Jason and seven Campers. I usually don’t see any problems with lag there. So, two Killers and six to eight Survivors shouldn’t be that much of an additional strain.
Q6: Lobbies will take forever to fill up!
A6: No, they won’t. It won’t take long to get two Killers together and Survive With Friends groups will branch out and start working with more people. Whatever doesn’t fill natively will have solo joiners slot in looking for a fast game very quickly. This will improve lobby fill time because Killers will be far less likely to lobby dodge when they have an ally they can voice chat with. No more reason to avoid Survive With Friends and that eliminates most of the lobby dodging right then and there.
Q7: Can’t we achieve fairness concerning voice chat another, maybe easier way?
A7: I don’t think so. The beauty of Kill With Friends is that it’s a feature plus that also legitimizes voice chat by making it a fair feature for both teams. No need to build in voice chat, people already know how to use third party tools. All other options are a feature negative, not a feature plus, punishing Survive With Friends players. Taking Survive With Friends away would be unfair for those who purchased the game to play it with their friends. It’s a feature Survivors have learned to enjoy. Spreading that feature to the Killer side as Kill With Friends is a feature plus, rather than a feature negative of taking Survive With Friends away. Also, penalizing Survive With Friends with a built in Perk granted to a Single Killer from the Entity that does not take one of his or her Perk Slots is not enough. Think about it, voice chat for one side and not the other is a massively powerful perk. What could possibly be strong enough to combat that? The closest I could think of is being able to see everyones’ auras at all times, kind of like Freddy, but without the need for putting them asleep and they can’t get out of it. But, that would be unfair to Survive With Friends players who are not using voice chat. It would also be unfair to solo join players. Even if solo join players get excluded from the punishment, they often still benefit from playing with a Survive With Friends group that is better capable of fixing generators and unhooking other Survivors. There is really, honestly no fair way to feature negative Survive With Friends Voice Chat Cheating out of the picture. The only fair thing to do is give group join power to the Killers as well; so that the use of voice chat becomes fair play for both sides.
Q8: What about Emblems?
A8: Emblems will need to be adjusted for the team experience and for the larger number of players. This shouldn’t be that difficult. The same concepts will be at play.
Q9: Is this really needed? Can’t Killers just sit down, shut up, and be happy with what we have?
A9: Yes it’s needed. No, we won’t. The reason that voice chat is currently cheating is because it gives an unfair advantage to Survivors. The advantage is so clear that people have made laundry lists of every aspect of how it completely ruins the game.
Many of the Survivors I meet don’t care. They care more about unskilled hallow victories that make them feel good more than a victory that is earned by actually using skill. It’s like when a child clears a level of Super Mario using the pity leaf that appears if you die too many times in the same level; but being either too ignorant or too immature to realize that their victory means nothing, as it was completely unearned, and thus celebrates it anyway.
These Survivors’ lack of care runs so deep that many openly admit to cheating with voice chat when probed enough in the end game chat. They have the audacity to claim that it’s not cheating, and the security to know that they will never be banned for it. So, they proudly laud their hallow, empty, meaningless victory over the heads of the Killers as if it is worth anything. Flaunting it in our faces.
In the short term, this has won DBD a sizable and financially profitable horde of Survivors with the mentality of children that they can milk for that sweet, sweet DLC money. Which is why I think the bad behavior goes unpunished. It’s like working at a grocery store. If the customer throws enough of a fit, they get the item for the price they want. It isn’t logical. It isn’t ethical. But, as a loss leader for keeping the customer coming back, it is profitable.
As such; we, the Killers of DBD, are the loss leader for Behavior Interactive. Our time, our money, our patience, our sense of fairness, our pride, and our fun is the loss leader. So long as the more lucrative faction of the player base is happy, then all is, “well.”
This has lead to longer waiting times for everyone due to lobby dodging, the Killer’s only real defense in the game against voice chat cheating. It has also lead to many Killers outright abandoning the game. Finally, it remains a key bar preventing DBD from expanding into being a real competitive game. One that could form real leagues, have real tournaments, and perhaps could even one day grow even bigger on a free to play model like Dota 2; should the upcoming in game market place prove sustainable enough for Behavior to wave the $20 entrance fee. This might lead to an even larger player base and more profit in the long run.
In short, the long term well being and sustainability of the game hedges entirely on customer retention. And customer retention is not held by DLC alone. The core game must be balanced and fair. I hesitate, at this stage of development, to call DBD a game; as a game is something that people come to play for fun. Fun comes from fairness; fairness comes from balance. Fun, fair, and balanced should be motto, nay, the very bread and butter of Behavior. Yet, it’s clearly not. And, it’s clearly holding this game back.
Nobody wants to sit at a game of Chess where you have normal pieces and your opponent has one King and all Queens. Yet, that’s what Killers are facing with voice chat. We’re told we suck if we loose. We’re yelled at if we somehow manage to win, very hard to do. And they say we’re scared if we lobby dodge. Who would actually want to sit down to this voice chat cheating Chess game willingly? No one.
So, why do we come back? We come back because, aside from this gaping unfairness, the rest of the game is really fun. There are other issues with Perks and other things; but those can always be tweaked and fixed. The Devs are always working on making everything, aside from voice chat cheating, better and fair for everyone. But, the voice chat cheating is the largest issue because not only is it horrible in and of itself, it makes all the other issues the game has multiple times worse.
Tired of infinite loops? Well, if that wasn’t bad enough, now the Survivors always know where each other are and if one of them sees you they all know where you are too. So, the other three know you’re being looped so they can safely pop three generators without punishment. Break the loop? Don’t worry, that will be reported to them as well; along with what direction you took off in so that the Survivor there can go hide while the Survivor you were chasing goes off to work on yet another generator. Did you bring Knock Out? Why? It doesn’t matter that they can’t see the aura of the other Survivors, they are simply told over voice chat where to go to be save them. Completely pointless perk to ever bring.
Again, the list goes on and on with how many ways Survivors exploit voice chat cheating to their advantage and how many perks for both Killers and Survivors and totally useless because voice chat completely nullifies their use.
Yet, this issue remains the elephant in the room that nobody at Behavior ever talks about. And it is our love of the rest of the game as Killers, that fuels us coming back to this current mess of a game, that is the biggest loss leader for Behavior. Unrewarded loyalty. So much so, that the Game Lead told us that if we don’t like it we should play Survivor or a different game. He recommended Civilization 3. I’ve heard the phrase, “Tell me how you really feel.” Well, I think that day he did.
The Killer is not able to apply pressure in this game. The Killers relies entirely on Survivors making mistakes. The balance is already off center right there. But, this is only amplified when the Survivors can work like a hit squad against the Killer with voice chat. The Killer is then reduced to nothing more than a rodeo clown to be looped and a pinata to be smashed with pallets. We exist in the game, for no other reason, than for the customer retention of the Survivors. So that they keep coming back to spend that sweet DLC money so that they can look cool while they run around with their friends, stomp us, and revel in their hallow victory that they are too immature to reject. This is not a game. It’s a play pen for babies.
Which is sad. Because, the game played fair actually is a game; and a fun one at that. The game has great ideas, fun mechanics, great graphics, and amazing audio. Every other aspect of this game is addicting and fun in all the right ways. It’s so frustrating for me, and the other Killers as well, to have what is otherwise such an amazing and fun game be held back by voice chat cheating.
From talking with people, I gleaned that SWF was added in haste because Behavior was being held hostage by the Survivors’ “review bombing” of the game. Coordinated thumbs down votes with lines like, ‘In this day and age a team game with no group join? No voice chat?’ To save the game, they had no choice but to cave to their new masters. Which is why to this day changes like the Killers being able to close the hatch have to be tipped toed around. They have to ticker it with warning tape that, ‘It’s only an idea. If too many people don’t like it, we can roll it back.’ Essentially, the Devs have to ask permission from the Survivors if it’s acceptable to them for the Devs to make the game more fair. Where is the Killer’s voice in all of this? Well, I’m often convinced we don’t have one. That’s the story I’ve been told when I’ve asked how Survive With Friends came about.
So, all of this considered, Kill With Friends is what I suggest be done to save this game. I bothered writing all of this, as well as continuing to play this game, because I do enjoy this game; aside from the rampant and unchecked voice chat cheating that the game was clearly not designed for and everyone in charge is turning a blind eye at.
Your fans, your customers, are asking you, begging you, and demanding that you to do something to save this game and make it fun, fair, and balanced for everyone!
The team keeps telling us that everything they do is done with fairness in mind for both sides. The game is anything but fair in its current state when Survivors have third party voice chat through group join and we do not. Please transform your words into actions and you will earn the respect of your community that truly and deeply loves this game. They love this game so much, that they have stayed around even through the hardship that group join for just Survivors has caused those of us that play Killer often.
Don’t tell us to play another game or take a nap! Fix this game so that we, as a community, can carry it into greatness! Make this truly, “only just the beginning,” for this game.
Comments
-
I'm just going to start with this phrase "Voice Chat Cheating"
There is nothing "Cheating" about voice chat. Your entire idea is half an idea for a completely new game that overthrows what Dead By Daylight is and reworks it entirely, and half just a rant that relentlessly bashes SWF. Most people don't do SWF just to "Grind that DLC money" I'm also not even sure what you mean there given that in the regular game no such thing can happen and in the PTB its only temporary given it isn't a real update yet. SWF exists for a reason, you might as well just say remove it rather then propose upheaving the entire game, reworking everything from objectives to maps to queue systems in a way you yourself admitted would make the original game obsolete just for... what, so you don't have to deal with SWF? What about killers who don't play with friends? Are they to be left having empty lobbies? What about the numerous survivors who solo queue or que in groups of 2-3. You essentially want to create a game that RELIES on the very voice chat that you say destroys the current game. Which means you want to punish those who don't "voice chat cheat"
Again I want to question what there is that is "Cheating" about voice chat. You say it makes kiler perks obsolete, yet you only cite Knockout. I suppose Third Seal goes here too, and while it is true they can pinpoint you/inform each other... there are ways solo survivors can figure this out too. Bond and Empathy are both perks, and often higher rank survivors are keenly aware of what area of the map the killer is in, and watch either the UI or run early warning perks (Prem/Spine) to tell them when to get moving. Solo Queue doesn't mean they won't genrush you, vanish the instant you get close, and save the instant you are distracted with a chase while one guy pallet loops you. SWF doesn't cause genrush, pallet looping, or killer awareness and team plays. Voice chatting is not cheating. Is it perhaps not as fair as solo players? Yeah, most times. I'm not going to pretend it does not give an advantage, but I'm also not going to pretend that as a killer there are still ways to punish mistakes, and that many of the issues of teamwork can happen in solo queue as well, and are just signs of good teamwork, or that people doing SWF don't make mistakes too. In the long run there are not that many perks that voice chatting really makes useless, knockout still wastes time, bond and empathy still help track, and if that bothers you then build a different perk loadout, many loadouts work regardless of voice chat or not.
I fail to see how this is a conversation about loving and perservering through the game when the entire thing is asking for the game to be reworked, insulting the game, calling many of those who play it for fun cheaters, and then proceeding to bash a mechanic that, might I add, I am fairly sure the devs were well aware was going to be a thing. SWF was expected to end up having voice chat, you can't expect it not to. That doesn't mean we should change the entire game for it though. You talk on and on about doing this to improve the game and because you care, but then you just put forth hate. If this game is so sad, and you hesitate to even call it a game, why do you play it? You say you care but you only care if it works out in a way favorable to you, and would ask that the devs create an entirely new version of the game just so you don't feel like your being cheated.
Is voice chat a powerful tool? Yes. Is it cheating? No. Do we need to rework the entire game, create an entire new mode, and change everything in the game to work around that while making solo play incredibly more difficult and pointless and the original playstyle most likely dead? No.
4 -
1: The game never needed SWF.
2: SWF ruins balance against killer and is thus broken and cheating.
3: It needs to be given to Killers too, or taken away.Otherwise, I see no reason to keep playing the game because it's broken trash as is because of this one issue.
It never should have been added. A powerful tool is the same as cheating when I don't get that tool.
Answer me this. How is it fair that Survivors get this tool and I don't? It's not. That's why it's called cheating.
Is it cheating?
Yes.Do we need to rework the entire game, create an entire new mode, and change everything in the game to work around that while making solo play incredibly more difficult and pointless and the original playstyle most likely dead?
Yes.
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.
I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm ######### sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the ######### FUN in that?
It's especially obvious when playing as Freddy. God I hate this ######### game. I hate it because I love it outside of this one ######### big hole that makes it total #########.
If it wasn't for SWF and voice chat, that game is actually fun. When I lobby dodge enough to get a room with all solo joins, as the devs intended the game to be, it's actually fair and fun. But, when I get 3 or 4 SWF the game is TOTAL ######### TRASH.
At least give us an option to filter out the cheaters so I don't have to lobby dodge to ignore them.
Like you said, bond, empathy, all useless. Anything needed for tracking by Survivor is useless when you can just tell them where you are.
Fine, get rid of SWF. Game did fine without it until Survivors wined and Behavior caved. I shouldn't HAVE to adjust myself to cheating. That's a completely unreasonable demand from the devs for me to keep playing this game with the deck stacked against me. I find NO JOY, in it.
My hope was, after over a year, enough people would complain to get it taken away, or given to both sides, or something. Really, anything. But, instead, DBD Devs just ignore it and consider normal Survivor coddling.
I'm sick of it. Balance in this game is trash on its own with infinite loops and the rest.
Only thing I can do to punish SWF voice chat cheating is camping, and I get nothing but hate for it after the match. But, it's the one and only thing that works.
Why should I stay when you cheat against me? Give me one ######### REASON!
You act like it's not that big of a deal, but I've noticed it to be the one and only major deciding factor. When I face them, I almost always die. When I face solo join, I kill 3 to 4. How do I go from 1 kill if I'm lucky to 3 to 4?
It's especially obvious when playing Freddy. SWF, dream demon is useless and everyone wakes everyone up 2.5 seconds after they shake a chase. They instantly and always find each other and wake each other up. When all of them but one are tagged, you'll see all three coordinate to the same spot to be woken up by the one awake. It's amazing how blatant the cheating is.
In contrast, against solo join, they flair ignorantly around looking for a gen or med kit to wake themselves up with by failing a skill check because they can't find each other, as it should be. I easily camp and kill 3 to 4.
It's night VS day. Totally different because of voice chat cheating. It's just with Freddy, I notice it with Myers. But, it's obvious with Freddy because I can see their auras constantly and they run in coordinated patterns towards each other that are impossible without voice chat.
It has completely ruined his game for me. I purchased this horror game because I wanted to run around in a digital world and kill people as movie monsters like Freddy and Myers. I didn't purchase it so Survivors would hand me my ass. Should Survivors have a fair chance? Yes. It voice chat cheating? Yes. Do they already have near infinite chases with pallets and infinite? Yes.
Survivor is baby mode because it takes no skill to play. The devs hand them the game. I'm just tired and very close to done with this. If I could refund the game I would. Almost ready to just delete it just to get it out of my library. I'm tired of wanting to play it again to like it, to realize that because of balance issues, made even worse by voice chat cheating, I hate it. I really, really hate it. And I hate that it's better than Friday the 13Th and the best horror game out there. A D- shouldn't be the best, but is when everyone else is getting an F.
All because I can't figure out how to deal with SWF voice chat cheating, something any sane dev wouldn't put in the game in the first damn place and I shouldn't HAVE to figure out how to deal with.
The reason it needs to be taken away or designed around is that it can't be countered in game. It breaks the game completely. They need to remove it, or redesign the entire game around it. One of the two. But giving Survivors tactical hit squad capabilities as a team game while forcing Killers to stay with the old game is ######### INSANE!
They updated half the game by adding SWF and not the other half because they didn't add Kill With Friends. Simple as that. We're playing two entirely different games balanced entirely differently that happen to mesh together and make a hot mess that I have to pay for and the Survivors benefit from. Then have the audacity to call "not cheating."
Why
should
I
stay
and
be
your#
rodeo
clown
?Post edited by THEPUMPKINSHAPE on-3 -
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm [BAD WORD] sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the [BAD WORD] FUN in that?
This man has seen one too many Squadettes.
6 -
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm [BAD WORD] sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the [BAD WORD] FUN in that?
This man has seen one too many Squadettes.
It just gets me when they say it's not cheating and that it's not a big deal and doesn't change the game enough to matter. Yet, it changes the game completely for me. If it doesn't matter, why not take it away? Whenever anyone suggests that, the skies open up and blood rains down. But, when I call it cheating, 'It doesn't effect the game that much.'
See the totally insane double standard? Hellfire if I suggest it be removed. (Because its their crutch.) But, 'doesn't matter and people play the same with or without out' whenever I call it cheating. It's political double speak at its absolute finest.
-1 -
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm [BAD WORD] sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the [BAD WORD] FUN in that?
This man has seen one too many Squadettes.
It just gets me when they say it's not cheating and that it's not a big deal and doesn't change the game enough to matter. Yet, it changes the game completely for me. If it doesn't matter, why not take it away? Whenever anyone suggests that, the skies open and blood rains down. But, when I call it cheating, 'It doesn't effect the game that much.'
See the totally insane double standard?
Just because it ticks you off doesn't mean it's cheating. Just because you have a specific perspective of what it is to cheat doesn't lend any more validity to calling this cheating.
By exaggerating the problem, you're making yourself look less credible. Keep to calling it unbalanced and unintended, because at least that makes sense to people.
And no one is even saying that SWF voice chat advantages aren't a big deal or not affecting the game... And you even flagged the other guy's post? Relax buddy. You need to take a chill pill. He's just disagreeing with your wording and reaction. He didn't kill your puppy.
In the words of our dear Director Cote, you should play some Civ.
-1 -
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm [BAD WORD] sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the [BAD WORD] FUN in that?
This man has seen one too many Squadettes.
It just gets me when they say it's not cheating and that it's not a big deal and doesn't change the game enough to matter. Yet, it changes the game completely for me. If it doesn't matter, why not take it away? Whenever anyone suggests that, the skies open and blood rains down. But, when I call it cheating, 'It doesn't effect the game that much.'
See the totally insane double standard?
Just because it ticks you off doesn't mean it's cheating. Just because you have a specific perspective of what it is to cheat doesn't lend any more validity to calling this cheating.
By exaggerating the problem, you're making yourself look less credible. Keep to calling it unbalanced and unintended, because at least that makes sense to people.
And no one is even saying that SWF voice chat advantages aren't a big deal or not affecting the game... You need to take a chill pill. And you even flagged the other guy's post? Relax buddy. In the words of our dear Director Cote, you should play some Civ.
I also honestly don't understand why cheating is such a hard word for people accept/wrap their heads around.
Is it an advantage?
Yes.Can it be used against me?
Yes.Do they get it?
Yes.Do I get it?
No.Is that fair?
No.Does that make it cheating?
Yes.Bannable?
Probably not. But cheating? Yes.It's like if someone gave someone extra Monopoly money at the start of the game and everyone gets it but one person out of the five. And whenever the one person speaks up and say, hey, why does everyone else get two extra $500 bills at the start but me? They all say, 'It's not cheating, it's fair. We don't really need it, and it does give us some advantage over you, but we'd play the game the same without it, you can learn to counter it, you should stop complaining about it, learn to play against it, and sit down, shut up, and accept it.' Can we take that advantage away and have us all start on an equal playing field? 'No, you want everything to just suit you and go your way 100% of the time don't you?' I just want a fair game. 'Git gud scrub!'
That's what people are doing to me with the game. Why should I keep bothering to play it? Explain to me why.
-1 -
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:> I also honestly don't understand why cheating is such a hard word for people accept/wrap their heads around.
Is it an advantage?
Yes.Can it be used against me?
Yes.Do they get it?
Yes.Do I get it?
No.Is that fair?
No.Does that make it cheating?
Yes.Bannable?
Probably not. But cheating? Yes.It's like if someone have someone extra Monopoly money at the start of the game and everyone gets it but one person out of the five. And whenever the one person speaks up and say, hey, why does everyone else get two extra $500 at the start but me? They all say, 'It's not cheating, it's fair. We don't really need it, and it does give us some advantage over you, but you should stop complaining about it, learn to play against it, and sit down, shut up, and accept it.'
That's what people are doing to me with the game. Why should I keep bothering to play it? Explain to me why.
Because cheating in gaming specifically refers to something not sanctioned by the game or the populous. Unfortunately, despite it meeting a criteria of being a tool that is used to advantage only one side, it is sanctioned by the game and a very large chunk of the playerbase. That's it.
But you're fighting a losing battle to try to categorize it as something it is not. I get it, you want people to see the weight of injustice that it brings to the game. Labeling it this way does not help you.
I think you should take a break. It is not healthy to have this sort of reaction to something that should be an enjoyable experience. The game is slowly improving, and the developers are still working on it. If it is hurting you and making you angry, why don't you lay off for a few days and support the game by voicing your opinion through the forums instead?
0 -
Never mind, deleted game from Steam account. So, never have to worry about this trash again. ######### all of you.
-3 -
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:> I also honestly don't understand why cheating is such a hard word for people accept/wrap their heads around.
Is it an advantage?
Yes.Can it be used against me?
Yes.Do they get it?
Yes.Do I get it?
No.Is that fair?
No.Does that make it cheating?
Yes.Bannable?
Probably not. But cheating? Yes.It's like if someone have someone extra Monopoly money at the start of the game and everyone gets it but one person out of the five. And whenever the one person speaks up and say, hey, why does everyone else get two extra $500 at the start but me? They all say, 'It's not cheating, it's fair. We don't really need it, and it does give us some advantage over you, but you should stop complaining about it, learn to play against it, and sit down, shut up, and accept it.'
That's what people are doing to me with the game. Why should I keep bothering to play it? Explain to me why.
Because cheating in gaming specifically refers to something not sanctioned by the game or the populous. Unfortunately, despite it meeting a criteria of being a tool that is used to advantage only one side, it is sanctioned by the game and a very large chunk of the playerbase. That's it.
But you're fighting a losing battle to try to categorize it as something it is not. I get it, you want people to see the weight of injustice that it brings to the game. Labeling it this way does not help you.
I think you should take a break. It is not healthy to have this sort of reaction to something that should be an enjoyable experience. The game is slowly improving, and the developers are still working on it. If it is hurting you and making you angry, why don't you lay off for a few days and support the game by voicing your opinion through the forums instead?
I already tried taking two months off when the Game Leader told all Killers to ######### off in the live stream. It's not any better. It never will get better. I'm done. I can't undo what I just did anyway. Deleting it off Steam account is permanent and I'm never buying this again.
-2 -
If they were noobs like you say then how do you lose to them? Any good killer will beat a noob swf team voice chat or not. Hell I’m not a good killer at all and I’ve beaten a noob swf team.THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:1: The game never needed SWF.
2: SWF ruins balance against killer and is thus broken and cheating.
3: It needs to be given to Killers too, or taken away.Otherwise, I see no reason to keep playing the game because it's broken trash as is because of this one issue.
It never should have been added. A powerful tool is the same as cheating when I don't get that tool.
Answer me this. How is it fair that Survivors get this tool and I don't? It's not. That's why it's called cheating.
Is it cheating?
Yes.Do we need to rework the entire game, create an entire new mode, and change everything in the game to work around that while making solo play incredibly more difficult and pointless and the original playstyle most likely dead?
Yes.
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.
I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm [BAD WORD] sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the [BAD WORD] FUN in that?
It's especially obvious when playing as Freddy. God I hate this [BAD WORD] game. I hate it because I love it outside of this one [BAD WORD] big hole that makes it total #########.
If it wasn't for SWF and voice chat, that game is actually fun. When I lobby dodge enough to get a room with all solo joins, as the devs intended the game to be, it's actually fair and fun. But, when I get 3 or 4 SWF the game is TOTAL [BAD WORD] TRASH.
At least give us an option to filter out the cheaters so I don't have to lobby dodge to ignore them.
Like you said, bond, empathy, all useless. Anything needed for tracking by Survivor is useless when you can just tell them where you are.
Fine, get rid of SWF. Game did fine without it until Survivors wined and Behavior caved. I shouldn't HAVE to adjust myself to cheating. That's a completely unreasonable demand from the devs for me to keep playing this game with the deck stacked against me. I find NO JOY, in it.
My hope was, after over a year, enough people would complain to get it taken away, or given to both sides, or something. Really, anything. But, instead, DBD Devs just ignore it and consider normal Survivor coddling.
I'm sick of it. Balance in this game is trash on its own with infinite loops and the rest.
Only thing I can do to punish SWF voice chat cheating is camping, and I get nothing but hate for it after the match. But, it's the one and only thing that works.
Why should I stay when you cheat against me? Give me one [BAD WORD] REASON!
You act like it's not that big of a deal, but I've noticed it to be the one and only major deciding factor. When I face them, I almost always die. When I face solo join, I kill 3 to 4. How do I go from 1 kill if I'm lucky to 3 to 4?
It's especially obvious when playing Freddy. SWF, dream demon is useless and everyone wakes everyone up 2.5 seconds after they shake a chase. They instantly and always find each other and wake each other up. When all of them but one are tagged, you'll see all three coordinate to the same spot to be woken up by the one awake. It's amazing how blatant the cheating is.
In contrast, against solo join, they flair ignorantly around looking for a gen or med kit to wake themselves up with by failing a skill check because they can't find each other, as it should be. I easily camp and kill 3 to 4.
It's night VS day. Totally different because of voice chat cheating. It's just with Freddy, I notice it with Myers. But, it's obvious with Freddy because I can see their auras constantly and they run in coordinated patterns towards each other that are impossible without voice chat.
It has completely ruined his game for me. I purchased this horror game because I wanted to run around in a digital world and kill people as movie monsters like Freddy and Myers. I didn't purchase it so Survivors would hand me my ass. Should Survivors have a fair chance? Yes. It voice chat cheating? Yes. Do they already have near infinite chases with pallets and infinite? Yes.
Survivor is baby mode because it takes no skill to play. The devs hand them the game. I'm just tired and very close to done with this. If I could refund the game I would. Almost ready to just delete it just to get it out of my library. I'm tired of wanting to play it again to like it, to realize that because of balance issues, made even worse by voice chat cheating, I hate it. I really, really hate it. And I hate that it's better than Friday the 13Th and the best horror game out there. A D- shouldn't be the best, but is when everyone else is getting an F.
All because I can't figure out how to deal with SWF voice chat cheating, something any sane dev wouldn't put in the game in the first damn place and I shouldn't HAVE to figure out how to deal with.
The reason it needs to be taken away or designed around is that it can't be countered in game. It breaks the game completely. They need to remove it, or redesign the entire game around it. One of the two. But giving Survivors tactical hit squad capabilities as a team game while forcing Killers to stay with the old game is [BAD WORD] INSANE!
They updated half the game by adding SWF and not the other half because they didn't add Kill With Friends. Simple as that. We're playing two entirely different games balanced entirely differently that happen to mesh together and make a hot mess that I have to pay for and the Survivors benefit from. Then have the audacity to call "not cheating."
Why
should
I
stay
and
be
your
[BAD WORD]
rodeo
clown
?0 -
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:> I also honestly don't understand why cheating is such a hard word for people accept/wrap their heads around.
Is it an advantage?
Yes.Can it be used against me?
Yes.Do they get it?
Yes.Do I get it?
No.Is that fair?
No.Does that make it cheating?
Yes.Bannable?
Probably not. But cheating? Yes.It's like if someone have someone extra Monopoly money at the start of the game and everyone gets it but one person out of the five. And whenever the one person speaks up and say, hey, why does everyone else get two extra $500 at the start but me? They all say, 'It's not cheating, it's fair. We don't really need it, and it does give us some advantage over you, but you should stop complaining about it, learn to play against it, and sit down, shut up, and accept it.'
That's what people are doing to me with the game. Why should I keep bothering to play it? Explain to me why.
Because cheating in gaming specifically refers to something not sanctioned by the game or the populous. Unfortunately, despite it meeting a criteria of being a tool that is used to advantage only one side, it is sanctioned by the game and a very large chunk of the playerbase. That's it.
But you're fighting a losing battle to try to categorize it as something it is not. I get it, you want people to see the weight of injustice that it brings to the game. Labeling it this way does not help you.
I think you should take a break. It is not healthy to have this sort of reaction to something that should be an enjoyable experience. The game is slowly improving, and the developers are still working on it. If it is hurting you and making you angry, why don't you lay off for a few days and support the game by voicing your opinion through the forums instead?
I already tried taking two months off when the Game Leader told all Killers to [BAD WORD] off in the live stream. It's not any better. It never will get better. I'm done. I can't undo what I just did anyway. Deleting it off Steam account is permanent and I'm never buying this again.
Okay, I respect your decision. It may be for the better. Take care.
If you ever change your mind, we'll be waiting for you at the campfire.
2 -
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:> I also honestly don't understand why cheating is such a hard word for people accept/wrap their heads around.
Is it an advantage?
Yes.Can it be used against me?
Yes.Do they get it?
Yes.Do I get it?
No.Is that fair?
No.Does that make it cheating?
Yes.Bannable?
Probably not. But cheating? Yes.It's like if someone have someone extra Monopoly money at the start of the game and everyone gets it but one person out of the five. And whenever the one person speaks up and say, hey, why does everyone else get two extra $500 at the start but me? They all say, 'It's not cheating, it's fair. We don't really need it, and it does give us some advantage over you, but you should stop complaining about it, learn to play against it, and sit down, shut up, and accept it.'
That's what people are doing to me with the game. Why should I keep bothering to play it? Explain to me why.
Because cheating in gaming specifically refers to something not sanctioned by the game or the populous. Unfortunately, despite it meeting a criteria of being a tool that is used to advantage only one side, it is sanctioned by the game and a very large chunk of the playerbase. That's it.
But you're fighting a losing battle to try to categorize it as something it is not. I get it, you want people to see the weight of injustice that it brings to the game. Labeling it this way does not help you.
I think you should take a break. It is not healthy to have this sort of reaction to something that should be an enjoyable experience. The game is slowly improving, and the developers are still working on it. If it is hurting you and making you angry, why don't you lay off for a few days and support the game by voicing your opinion through the forums instead?
I already tried taking two months off when the Game Leader told all Killers to [BAD WORD] off in the live stream. It's not any better. It never will get better. I'm done. I can't undo what I just did anyway. Deleting it off Steam account is permanent and I'm never buying this again.
Okay, I respect your decision. It may be for the better. Take care.
If you ever change your mind, we'll be waiting for you at the campfire.
Maybe if it fixes itself and goes free to play. But, I'm never paying money for it again. Not worth the nightmare. It's amazing when cheating is not cheating even though it is cheating.
In any other game, board game, school yard game, life itself, this is called cheating. It's amazing to me in gaming it's not.
-2 -
Again I say, voice chat is not cheating. I have to ask, how much do you actually play killer? You say 200 hours, but in the long run, that is barely getting warmed up. Also, may I point out, you are saying its most obvious when playing Freddy. Freddy is easily the worst killer out there, no hate, I actually main him, but even in solo queues people will wake up the instant you leave them alone if they are smart. I also didn't say Bond and Empathy are useless, just they don't have as much use and may not be run in a squad, I have seen many SWF use those two perks, because despite having VC, that doesn't give them an automatic map of the entire game with pinpoints where they all are. If you are bothered by them all waking up, go put them to sleep. That is a mistake they just made, use it, as Freddy having 3-4 people grouped up so one guy can wake them up is an oppurtunity to put them all to sleep.
It is not cheating to, in a ASYMMETRICAL game, have a tool on one side the other doesn't have. May I remind you, your side has perks which let you see auras, weapons which instant down, perks which slow down repairs and apply negative status conditions, and the power to control the battlefield? You apply the pressure. If you get ######### for camping, its maybe because there are other ways to play. SWF does not gaurentee a win, if you play off of it. If Freddy really keeps getting abused, maybe try a killer that isn't super low tier. I love freddy but he is really easily bullied. He can't counter pallet looping and while he is stealth master he has a lot of disadvantages here.
Its not a double standard if both sides are diferent to start with, and I think you overestimate vc comms. When you start getting higher level, players will learn to team up with each other without the voice chat. If you are tired of getting teamplayed, CHANGE the strategy, dont blame the game. If you actually like the game, you would like how it is and want to change it for the better, not want to remake the game. If you really think Friday the 13th is better then go play it instead of cussing out a game for being what it is. SWF is not cheating, and neither is voice chat, the fact that you assume the devs simply made SWF a thing off of a whim because of whining and then didn't think voice chat would be a thing is insulting to them, not to mention that you go so far as to call something that is natural and expected cheating. If you don't like it, play something else, if you want to keep playing dead by daylight, I reccomend you ask for tips on dealing with good teamwork survivors, rather then being angry that they don't play the way you want them to. Just because they work together doesn't mean its cheating, and the fact that you believe the entire game should be reworked and call it cheating just because survivors don't split up and play the way you want them to means you cannot adapt and that you would rather blame others and curse and demand changes then learn.
Trust me, I main Freddy, and while I am not very high rank in killer, I am actually fairly respectable on survivor, and I have seen all kinds of killers, even, surprisingly, a Freddy who ran me through a tough game. And you know what, I was in SWF and while I mostly stuck to waking myself up, its because I was running self-care and being bait while my friend genrushed. Didn't stop him even though I ran him around the map and back. Why? He was good, and he learned, he used my mistakes in not running bond to punish me when I accidentally led him to someone, and the fact that I knew where he was to bait me.
The reason no one wants it taken away is because, while it gives a huge advantage, the game IS based around teamwork, and some people like playing with their friends. However what you want is a completely different game and a completely different experience. its supposed to be one mystery person vs 4 survivors trying to work together and coordinate. Taking that away is like saying "Hey ######### you you dont get to play with your friends because I can't counter teamwork"
0 -
Pretty sure they're trolling at this point. They've already told us to F off and deleted the game. Yet they continued to complain about it. Flagged and disregarded.
0 -
Definition of cheating:Visionmaker said:@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
@Visionmaker said:
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE said:
Otherwise, I'm out and giving it a trash review as I leave.I put over 200 hours into the game and I'm [BAD WORD] sick and tired of getting my ass handed to me by noobs who ONLY win because they CHEAT. Where's the [BAD WORD] FUN in that?
This man has seen one too many Squadettes.
It just gets me when they say it's not cheating and that it's not a big deal and doesn't change the game enough to matter. Yet, it changes the game completely for me. If it doesn't matter, why not take it away? Whenever anyone suggests that, the skies open and blood rains down. But, when I call it cheating, 'It doesn't effect the game that much.'
See the totally insane double standard?
Just because it ticks you off doesn't mean it's cheating. Just because you have a specific perspective of what it is to cheat doesn't lend any more validity to calling this cheating.
By exaggerating the problem, you're making yourself look less credible. Keep to calling it unbalanced and unintended, because at least that makes sense to people.
And no one is even saying that SWF voice chat advantages aren't a big deal or not affecting the game... And you even flagged the other guy's post? Relax buddy. You need to take a chill pill. He's just disagreeing with your wording and reaction. He didn't kill your puppy.
In the words of our dear Director Cote, you should play some Civ.
Gaining an unfair advantage via 3rd party Programms
Discord and ts is exactly that, it's just said that sad that devs allow it
The correct term would be "accepted cheating"0 -
If you think its sad that devs allow something that makes more players want to join the game and more players have fun playing the game and think that something that promotes teamwork in a teamwork based game is unfair and cheating, then you are not, and never have been, adapted to this kind of game. There is no such thing as accepted cheating, it is either against the rules or in following, discord is not against any such rules.
I hope you enjoy your other games and being toxic elsewhere
1 -
Definition of cheating:
Gaining an unfair advantage via 3rd party Programms
Discord and ts is exactly that, it's just said that sad that devs allow itThe correct term would be "accepted cheating"
And that's my point entirely.
The devs accept the cheating because it keeps players playing so they can keep making money selling them DLC. The devs use the killer's unrewarded loyalty to keep this game going; because without Killers there is no game. Making the ones that stay stupid. Which is why I deleted the game. I know there is no way to prove that I did, but it is gone. It's just too much stress to deal with.
@Saint_Judas said:
If you think its sad that devs allow something that makes more players want to join the game and more players have fun playing the game and think that something that promotes teamwork in a teamwork based game is unfair and cheating, then you are not, and never have been, adapted to this kind of game. There is no such thing as accepted cheating, it is either against the rules or in following, discord is not against any such rules.I hope you enjoy your other games and being toxic elsewhere
Well, it's clearly cheating because it's a third party app that gives unfair advantage. By the dev's own rules, it's cheating. You say it is or it isn't. So, it is.
It makes more Survivors want to join the game, and Survivors have fun paying the game and it promotes teamwork on only one side of the game while not allowing any teamwork for the other side because two Killers can not join and share the same buff.
My point, it breaks the third party app rule, so it's cheating by their own words. It gives an unfair advantage, so it's cheating by common sense. It's allowed as accepted cheating because it makes money for Devs that would rather place the happiness of the larger size of the player base above the minority because it's more financially profitable to do so. That's called being bad devs.
Anyway, I'm not going to keep wasting my time on this. The basic ethics that anyone 4 years old or older can understand of fairness is clearly beyond most Survivor players, the devs don't care because they're making money, the Killer players don't make up a large enough voice here to matter, and I actually did crawl into my Steam account to delete this nightmare of a game because it's not worth the effort anymore.
0 -
I’m a cheater I admit. I only play this game in swf with party chat. I’m sorry for enjoying the game with friends and having fun on it. I’m deeply sorry for getting other players into the game and helping them learn it. Please ban me I’m such a horrible person and a plague on the community for what I’ve done. It’s so much worse than wall hacks, lag switches, speed hacks etc. I don’t even know how can go on knowing I’ve cheated against so many killers.1
-
Unrewarded killers. Do you forget my good sir that as we speak they are altering the new chapter to reward killers even more? There are perks killers have which let them counter many survivor strategies, and certain killers erase certain survivor playstyles entirely. If you are never winning against SWF it is because you are not adapting. I just played against several SWF groups, and won against most of them. The ones I lost? I let myself get side-tracked and pallet looped, it was not them "Cheating" that allowed this, it was my own inability to counter. In fact, them being SWF is what helped me win the other games. You say you play Freddy right? You never considered using that to find them? Put one to sleep, stay outside heartbeat radious, wait until you see them being woken up. Free tracking system. At higher levels you have pro killers as HillBilly and Nurse who can get across the map in an instant to punish those who try to distract, or can wreck baiters who slip up and get cocky. The system is tilted towards survivors but killers are not unrewarded, and voice chatting is not what is breaking this game. You are obsessed with calling it cheating, but it is only because you don't like it. You can't adapt to it. You cannot find ways to use it to your advantage. Thereby it is cheating.
You make the devs out to be whimpering sad cowards when they are people who have dedicated time, and money, and sweat, and hard work into crafting this game, and you call them out by saying they allow cheating that is not even cheating. Is it an advantage? Yes. So is running smarter perks, so is using item combinations. Stop pretending that because there isn't a voice chat system and because something is more powerful together then alone it must be against the rules. I remind you again, this is a game based around teamwork, and that having a means of communication may be a huge advantage but it is not cheating, nor is playing with friends in a game meant for cooperation. If it was cheating, it would be against the rules, the only rules you cite are ones you are making up and angrily spewing out to try to blame the devs for you not having fun in a game that seems to not be meant for you. Pleasing the majority over the minority is not bad development, its called not being stupid, and there are more killer mains and survivors who play or care about killer balance then you think, so if you could stop insulting everyone pointlessly perhaps you could see that a little better. I hope you enjoy whatever other game you find, I think we will be find without you
0 -
I run a killer main and I not sure how using voice chat, whether discord, psn, or xbox live is cheating? People enjoy gaming with their friends and voice chatting while doing so. Not sure what the big deal is. I play to have fun. They play to have fun. Whats wrong with that.
That said, I actually would love to see a two killer vs 6-8 survivor match. Just imagine the bloody chaos. Running from one killer and running right into the other. I doubt it would occur because at that point, no matter the perks, that type of match would be completely killer sided.
0 -
@THEPUMPKINSHAPE Yea, on the "Kill With Friends" mode. Nay on the voice chat being bannable.
1 -
Voice chat is not cheating, period. We can argue back and forth until we're blue in the face but at the end of the day it's still not cheating.
On a more personal note, that just sounds not fun. Two killers sandwiching a survivor is just a guaranteed down with no counterplay. Adding more survivors to compensate just means that there's going to be even more people not having fun because any time they end up in a chase, they immediately get sandwiched and downed. It would also make it harder to apply pressure which would sorta defeat the whole point.
Not to mention that there's nothing stopping people from just queueing solo and leaving lobbies until they end up in their friends' lobby. It happened in the beta and I guarantee it'll happen again.
I think fundamentally changing the game to fix one issue with wreckless disregard for the many other issues that would stem from it is the wrong way to go about it. Instead, all you need to do is buff solo survivors so they have the same information, then buff killers to follow suit. That way you can balance around coordinated teams without leaving solo players in the dust.3 -
Kill with friends is a highly requested gamemode, I eagerly await it's arrival.0
-
Dude 200hrs I have over 2-3 months non stop playing sure a mode that has 2 killers would be fun but in the end that's a entirely different game to dbd0
-
this canon or no?
0
