How do you have fun against sweaty SWF survivor groups?
Alright, I've got around 800 hours in this game and manage to hit red ranks in killer after rank resets when I get the chance to play the game. I try to play both sides equally but recently I've started playing killer more often and the difference between swf survivors and solo survivors is crazy.
For solo survivor games, I can hook everyone twice before killing them off with time to spare on the gens but when it comes to SWF I have to sweat to even get a bunch of hooks in a row before getting genrushed to oblivion. The organisation of SWFs is something that cannot be matched by solo survivor groups and I'm having trouble having fun against SWF's because of the sweat.
Firstly, am I even good enough with 800 hours to deal with optimal SWF teams at red ranks? Because often I feel like I do not deserve to be in the red ranks and I just accept defeat against these SWF teams. Do people in my situation have the same issues?
Secondly, how do you guys have fun against such optimal teams where 1-2 survivors run you around in good loops and the others just gen rush you? Do you just accept defeat?
Just looking for opinions, I feel pretty downed especially today since most of my games have been against sweaty SWF groups and I've had 4-5 entity displeaseds in a row.
Thanks for reading and your comments :)
Comments
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So... With solo survivors its an easy stomp but with swf you're not having fun because you have to work hard?
Imagine how all the solo survivors feel getting stomped, probably not very fun.
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Yeah I imagine its not very fun for the survivors getting stomped but it's not about working hard in my opinion really, often times you just can't do anything against a coordinated survivor group, which is the point I was trying to make.
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Play the game. I went against a R1 4man with four commodious today. I played plague with mediocre peeks and mediocre addons. I displeased the praised entity and only got one. Still had fun in chases tho.
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I agree that playing against a team that is optimal at genrush that manage to pop three gens in 3 minutes is boring as hell and there's nothing you can do to stop it unless you manage to take someone out of the game as soon as you can, because it's easier when it comes down to 3 vs 1. You'd have a better chance against these teams playing with high mobility killers such as Spirit and Billy, even Wraith with some very good add ons.
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I have to agree, SWF makes the game less fun. I don't mind they pop gens fast, but when the match is over in 2 minutes, what was the point? I play for fun, not a sweatfest of praying this group will rush me
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Well the answer used to be Nurse. Learn her and the only time you lose is when they actually adapt and change their playstyle or you played badly. SWF or not if you were skilled you could very often crush a SWF, especially if they had to rescue the weak links often.
Now though? Just sit in a corner and give up. If they're optimal there just isn't much you can do. It's often more fun and less stressful to go stare at a corner than take their BM.
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Slug'em
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Kill one and wait for hate messages
There's nothing you can really do other than tunnel one guy to death, of they're truly optimal you won't have time for second. I think im going to try to hit rank 1 as killer and then stay green from now on because of this. People argue about "whiny killers" and all that BS but SWF breaks the game, its while the Devs never intended it to be part of the game.
I don't want it taken out because i use it but if they want killers to actually play they should at the very least give you more BP for it. The higher i go in killer ranks the more often the games are over in less than 5 minutes. Harder, less fun, and more lobby times. What's the point?
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If I'm not having fun, I just stare at a wall and go afk. If their idea of fun is doing gens in two minutes and leaving, then that's what I'll let them do. I'm not gonna stress myself out in a match I won't enjoy just for someone else's amusement.
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With perks like DS, Unbreakable and Borrowed Time the tunnel one to death idea doesn't work properly. I agree that getting the game to 3 v 1 makes it more manageable but 4/5 gens pop in that time where you play around the perks I've just mentioned.
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Well your alternative is to get no kills.
I also wouldn't recommend trying to play around those perks. Eat DS, don't leave them slugged, eat BT or just follow them until it wears off.
Pretty dumb way to play, but im seeing less of the swf that instantly try to go for save and more that are optimal with gens
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Like others have said, find a nice corner, look into it and tab into a Youtube video for something, the getting tilted by there BM'ing isn't worth it
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You still have Spirit!
...
Yet.
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Hey, y'all. Tunneling someone out is one option. And it can bring a game to even ground in some cases. I suppose I want to know what killers you are playing? What perks and add ons do you like to use? Do you find you are stuck in chases too long? Have you tried breaking off from chases if they go beyond 45+ seconds?
There are a lot of factors involved in this game and its hard to break it down to simply, are you good enough or not. I myself have been destroyed by swf in 5-6 minutes, but I have also killed 3-4 people in a swf game where people were 3 ranks higher than me. Depends. Would love to discuss.
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Mori and camp. Or dodge the lobby lol.
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I am a Billy main, which is definitely not at the tier to deal with optimal swf groups. I usually go with mediocre add one like the yellow ones. Ran out of the best add ons since I never prestiges him. I try to get better with base kit recently without any add ons. I seem to be playing with Billy mostly because I mostly suck with spirit and can't rely on any other killer in red ranks. I go with the classic ruin BBQ spirit fury enduring combo on Billy and have been for a very long time. I'm very open to suggestions about the perks though as recently this combo didn't bring in much success.
Also about your questions about chases, I usually break off the chase if I feel like the survivor is clearly out of my league of at a good loop. I try to get an M1 off with the hopes that I can catch that survivor off guard later on and get an easy down. I sometimes find myself fixated on a single survivor when they're being cocky or bming but that happens mostly when I accept defeat and get annoyed by that single survivor
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Cool beans. Billy is decent. I will concede he has fallen off a little on ps4, but ya still see him. The spirit fury/enduring combo is decent but it will be somewhat map dependent as there are some maps that rely less on pallets than others. But the chainsaw can be very hard at times. Try using it to mind game a little bit with the intent of M1 someone. Or just use it to travel and then chase people down. If you find a powerful looper, leave them and look for another person. Even 4 man swf teams rarely have 4 people that are strong loopers. Remember people who tea bag and such are trying to frustrate you and get you to chase. Use that as a reminder that you should break off and put pressure on gens. Perk wise I am a fan of the ones like nurse's calling thanatophobia, sloppy butcher. I like injuring people and having it have severe penalties so if I injure someone a break off the chase it has more of an impact. May I also suggest that any perks that give map information are also good for billy such as discordance, bitter murmur and such.
I am approaching red ranks soon. I am currently enjoying ghost face, pig, myers, wraith, spirit, freddy and soon, the hag. So there are other options if you have any of em leveled up. I do play the trapper basement build from time to time still but not as often. Many swf teams struggle with that build because they can't stand to let any of their allies get into the struggle or die for the sake of rushing gens. Its using their bond as a weakness. It works very well.
May I also suggest watching some you tube vids on killer games. Mainly focusing on mind games for loops. It seems obvious, but it is always good to see what others are doing to deal with these issues.
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Xerge. I am not sure I have seen that very much? Does that happen often? Sounds like a NOED disaster after getting gen rushed.
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You can leave the game and remember their names or put them on a blacklist, if you really want. At red ranks for example queues are basically instant, which lets you dodge people who are always as sweaty as can be.
Beyond that you have to set reasonable expectations. All good players in a SWF group, playing incredibly optimally? Try and get at least 2 kills, set that as your goal. That's all you really can do. Got a bad map? Good survivors? Accept there's a good chance all 4 escape, but try to have fun if you can, try and improve. That's all one can do.
This is a game where the killer generally reacts to the survivors, when technically speaking it should be the other way around. If you're playing people like that, you may also need to change your playstyle. Maybe you need to proxy the hook more, use people as bait, stuff like that. You need to pick your battles, avoid specific areas of a map, use a bit of strategy and use how they maybe play against them. You'll never beat good SWF unless you learn to improve, but I am by no means saying that it's going to be fun.
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Ranking up as a killer is way too hard, at least compared to survivor. You have do be dogshit to depip as a survivor, and it's easy to guarantee a black pip. As a killer, you can get 8 hooks and a 4k, and depip.
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Waiting for BT to expire is a neat trick, it's more efficient if you know the person who got unhooked already used his ds or is dead on hook. Otherwise I think I'd recommend going after the survivor who unhooked the other.
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I am slowly not caring about getting ED because the requirements to get emblems really clashes with the way youre supposed to play killer at red ranks. Double hooking people and letting people get unhooks is the way to get demolished in red ranks and camping etc just destroys your emblems. It's a losing battle for killers in my opinion.
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Some sound advice, thanks for that.
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It's really enjoyable playing all killers like you do, as I try to do the same myself. I have most killers purchased and somewhat alright perks set up but in red ranks I've only played Billy spirit and a bit of plague. Don't know how to play nurse and don't care since it doesn't teach me how to get better at loops. About the perk info you gave, it feels like if I stay away from meta perks in red ranks it's automatically a defeat.
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It's extremely unbalanced and the matchmaker is not remotely fair; but they are not going to fix it or change it in any way.
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What does BM mean? Other then to take a #########
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So I don't know if they're SWF until later on but basically if I am getting run around by an obvious good team who knows what they're doing all I can hope for is that I do my best and that's it. Now if they're being cocky on the other hand and trying to set me off I think differently, in that case I go with it and go full on ######### mode.
I will slug them and watch they do, are they altruistic, are they just rushing, I see what they want and I plan around that. With these teams my goal is to disrupt them as much as possible, not to win but to take away their fun since they're obviously so ######### coordinated and know they're the real top dog in this unbalanced game. If I can make them call me a tunneler or a camper or a piece of ######### then I know I won because their fun was taken by my scummy tactics which were completely valid and necessary.
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I try to play well and enjoy the match. If they're teabagging little chumps I'll usually facecamp the last person.
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Then depip. Me and my friends have tons of fun with swf and I would stop playing if swf wasn't in the game. I think the solution to both sides is to strengthen the less mobile killers
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This realization hits every killer player at some point and why you sporadically see SWF=cheating posts.
It really depends how you define your fun.
If you want to win-win you yourself have to play sweaty.
Exploit everything they give you. Camp when you have to, tunnel where you must, focus on your gens.
Don't over commit in a chase. If you cannot down one quick enough, switch targets and disrupt their plan.
Don't play their game. They often try to lure you in unfavorable chases.
There is always a weak link, find that survivor and snowball of it.
If you wanna "cheat", bring a Mori. Ebony or Ivory. Either kick one out at the start of the match and make them salty, often results in more failure due to salt or you reduce all hooks to 1. Cannot guarantee the favor of the entity.
Alternative you can say, ######### it and play your own game. Play silly and goofy. Try a meme build you just like to try out. RP, like recrate the Halloween Movie with Michael, find your Obsession and stalk/follow him and hit or kill/slug everyone who comes in your way. Works well with Rancor.
Just pick a killer, think of a theme and roll with it.
You probably won't pip, but have your fun and occasionally you throw them so of their game that you slaughter them all. That's pure Bliss.
Just find your way of fun and see you in the fog.
PS. If they bring a lot of items, try Franklin's just for fun. You might like it =)
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Honestly, my best advice is to meme at that point. If they are receptive to it, then meme with them and have some good giggles. If they aren't, then just chill till they finish the gens, open a door, and then go sit in a corner facing it till they either leave or the entity kills them.
I play both sides, though I will admit I am a bit more survivor sided. At the end of the day, just try not to take the game so seriously because even in losing, it can be fun. I've had matches where as survivor, I will attempt to meme with the killer if two to three gens pop in 3 minutes because it's honestly not fun to gen rush. I like the thrill of the chase and of being cheeky in a fun way. But I feel that survivors at purple and red ranks are so used to sweaty killers that they sweat too and it becomes a negative feedback loop or whatever where they both feed each other.
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its not fun and fair when they know what they are doing. just dodge them.
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by getting 4K with 2 gens done
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Anyone can win against swf. You're thinking about it all wrong. Sure it's nice to hook every survivor twice before killing them. But in high rank play it's not an option really anymore. So a couple things you can do to make your life better without being an ass which it sounds like you're trying to do example no tunneling or face camping. Plus usually you lose if you do that here is what you shall do. First consider the gens you have when initiating a chase with a survivor. Like 2 survivors on a gen and 1 of the 2 has been hooked already. If there's 3 gens left I'm going for the guy who's closer to death. It's not my fault I found you. Another thing to consider is just hitting a survivor off a gen. If I see someone on a gen and I'm in chase with a different survivor I'd push the people off the gen. A big thing to consider is to know when to give up chases especially if they're looping you really well. Just give up and try and get them when they're out in the open. Like survivors that run for infinites just give up and run unless you know for 100% that you can end the infinite fast. The last thing to consider is once you hook someone you need to pressure fast. A swf squad is going to send one person to rescue. You need to intercept that one going so another survivor has to do it. In the end swf are going to be doing gens so you need to make as many of them stay off gens as possible. Some perks I'd run i I know it's swf is BBQ or discordance. I'd run surveillance because a lot like to run back and just tap gens. If u don't run discordance I'd run ruin to give you time to find a survivor. (Once you get a hook you should be on a survivor most of the game after your first hook.) The last perk would be just a perk that helps your killer like save the best on those m1 killers. You could swap surveillance for pop too. I don't think you need to sweat against swf but it does require thinking and some good perks to do well against them.
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"Bad Manners", I think.
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I really don't know how often it happens, but I've seen it happen to tru3talent a few times and I've read a few testimonies on the forum. Maybe it doesn't happen very often, but I imagine it must feel frustrating to manage to get a 4k at red ranks with low tier killers after a hard fought battle and still depip.
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you don't. you are supposed to stand there an take it like a good little killer bot.
(even if you are extremely skillfull as a killer , have the best perks, you can still be bent down by optimal swf due to how poorly balanced it is)
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i usually dont mind, though what i admit i hate with a passion is teams that are working coordinated on gens with the only goal of fixing those damn things asap.
like, they dont heal they dont do totems, they dont do anything but gens.
where is the fun in that?
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Wait for Behaviour to quit being stupid and put comms in the game for all survivors that way they can balance killer against 100% SWF. That, or go back to no SWF.
"Well not everyone will use mics."
And when they don't have mics in lobby, other survivors will dodge them. The no mic crew can play together or get mics.
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Optimal survivor teams tend to run with a plan.
If that plan is screwed up, they will start to falter as a team and panic.
I know this is the case because everytime I play against an OoO Optimal team and I bring a blindness addon, when they cant see me and their teammate that runs OoO is in danger. NONE of them will be doing generators and instead start to try and bodyblock me from hitting them or hooking them.
If you find a sweaty SWF group, try to make them change their plans or make them panic. Usually it ends with them biting the dust.
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Ya dont
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there is a reason I de ranked out of red ranks
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Play as Wraith then stand in a corner while cloaked. Don't give them the match they want. If any other killer then just hang out in the basement. Interact with them as little as possible. Once gens are powered open the exit gates so they can't draw it out.
If they message you anything afterwards say gg close game.
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you don't, you either bring a mori to ruin their time or you DC forcing them to wait longer for a game
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If the match is going badly just go AFK. No need to endure typical SWF nonsense if you don't want to and you're not having fun. Never DC though. That's rude and toxic. Don't do that.
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You don't. Sweaty SWF teams are nearly as bad as Nurse with overpowered add-ons (pre nerf).
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You'll eventually learn who plays with who and what load outs they typically use. I won't name anyone, but I know one commando unit I run into a few times a week runs two OoO, 4 DS, 2 BT, 2 Iron Will minimum. There's absolutely no point in playing an M1 killer against them, or a set up killer like Trapper or Hag. Point being, the super unfun ones tend to at least be predictable when you get enough hours in at the same ranks. How do I have fun against them? I don't. A well-coordinated SWF of good players is not going to lose unless you're a good Nurse or they throw the game.
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You basically don't. If you get a diehard SWF group you're probably just not going to be playing that match. You are going to be their punching bag because the matchmaker doesn't consider SWF and their voice communication, or about how bad you are with that particular very different killer.
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