So Killers got Bamboozled?

I'm just gonna say one word... PTB

@Milo said:
I'm just gonna say one word... PTB

Thats actually a abbreviation of 3 words...

@DocOctober said:

@Peanits said:
Just throwin' it out there, I very rarely even get bloodlust 1 (unaffected), let alone bloodlust 2 (slight decrease). The only time I've ever gotten bloodlust 3 was when I was messing around and intentionally trying to get it. It's not as big of a deal as some make it out to be. The vast majority of the time you're going to have to break a pallet before BL1 can even activate, and even if you do get BL1, it's unaffected by this change. Simply put, you do not need to be going 1.8m/s (4.6 base) faster than someone to catch them. BL3 will still allow you to close the distance twice as fast as you would normally.

I've never been a fan of bloodlust. It doesn't help with the one thing it was made to solve. Each time you break a pallet, it resets. The only thing it actually punishes is survivors who know how to survive without using pallets let and right, and instead using windows to gain small amounts of distance and using the broken LOS to mindgame. Bloodlust in reality is just a brute force mechanic. There's no strategy to it. You just run around for a bit and then sonic up to someone to get a hit.

If anything, I'd rather just see it reworked into something that punishes pallet looping, e.g. for each pallet you break in a chase you get a bloodlust stack. But in order to do that (since stacks would be easier to accumulate), you'd have to have a more reasonable speed boost. You can't have an F1 running you down just because of a few pallets.

Also, that is going to be tested before it even has a chance to go live. It's not even confirmed yet.

The rest of the changes mentioned were fairly minor. QOL animation improvements (no effect on gameplay, unhook change is arguably good for the killer because the "fake" unhook where they are not grab-able doesn't exist), trap buffering is really not a big deal (now that traps cannot be placed under hooks, it's going to see minimal use, long time trapper main here).

The only other biggish change mentioned is giving more information to solo players, which is a good thing. It puts everyone on a more level playing field, making the game easier to balance. Currently it's difficult to find a good balance because solo players would be left behind if you just buff killers, whereas SWF groups wouldn't have much issue because they're able to share information easily. Bringing everyone up to the same level allows you to buff killers to make them powerful to everyone equally.

Just gonna leave this here:

Kindred being a passive built in mechanic only furthers the progression of gens without the fear of "if i leave this generator do I just lose out on generator time or can I get the save"
Without a change of generators or another way to increase the gametime built into the game, it makes the clock for the killer even crazier to play against.
Kindred has a good staying ground, as a perk.
not as a mechanic without tweaking the core problem of the too fast progressed gens first.
With Kindred built in, you will always have at least 1-2 people constantly working on a gen while someone is hooked. If you dont even have to sacrifice a perk slot for it, it only fuels the problem of games beeing faster done than a killer can end chases efficiently.

Exhaustion removal on hook combined with the invincibility frames would allow a freshly unhooked Survivor to Sprint Burst away without the Killer having a chance to do something about it, giving the Survivor a considerable edge in the following chase, further contributing to the persisting problem of chasing lasting for too long. And just imagine the free hatch if it's nearby or even right next to the hook. It would also make SB again the by far BEST exhaustion perk in the game, because after the unhook you'd be able to force a Killer to chase, while other exhaustion perks wont give you that much power in that situation.

The Bloodlust nerf is not justified in any way. Not only does the Emblem System already considerably punish the Killer for even getting Bloodlust, no it also rewards the Survivor for it alongside. And seen as how pallet stuns and breaks get rid of it altogether and even short losses of line of sight (vaults) quickly deteriorate it, it does not help against the type of Survivor it should help against: loopers, but rather further punishes the non-looping Survivors. If the speed boost is lowered, so should the time be.

That is a summary of the community-feedback given to the devs after lengthy discussions on Discord and why the changes have a high potential for abuse. I do understand your reasoning and the devs' in the Q&A, but both you and them forget to think ahead, to how those changes can be abused. If there's anything abusable in Dead by Daylight, Survivors will find and (ab-)use it, the game's history has shown that to be true time and time again. You also don't look broad enough to consider the immense drawbacks some of the proposed changes will have, that they'll actually increase the severity of current problems.

THANK YOU!
I´ve been preaching this for the whole day.

@Tsulan said:

@Milo said:
I'm just gonna say one word... PTB

Thats actually a abbreviation of 3 words...

OH NO.

@thesuicidefox said:
1) Pallets are really screwy now, you will constantly drop a pallet and STILL get hit when it shouldn't have. I've even been killer and said to myself "that should not have hit". Vacuum is gone and it favors the killer now, so the changes will balance it out more so that you don't get stuns AND hits at the same time.

2) Bloodlust is kinda bogus. On the one hand it's a necessity because of maps, but on the other it wouldn't be a necessity if they fixed some looping spots. All pallets, sans 2 god pallets (shack and another by other basement location) should have mindgames. Right now there are too many safe pallets because there is no mindgame. Haddonfield is notorious for this.

3) The unhook change makes it so that killers can't play like total scrubs and still get kills. It's completely unfair that you can be hit down before you can even act. Now the survivor will have if only a moment to avoid the hit, and killers will have to time it properly if they want the guy on the hook.

Killers got fixes and buffs. Now survivors get fixes and buffs. All to make the game better for everyone. Really all they need to do for killers is fix maps to remove loops/god pallets and remove mist as an offering (maybe keep the white ones for tad less/more) and killers will be in a good place.

but they are NEVER GOING TO FIX THE MAPS.

@snozer said:

@thesuicidefox said:
1) Pallets are really screwy now, you will constantly drop a pallet and STILL get hit when it shouldn't have. I've even been killer and said to myself "that should not have hit". Vacuum is gone and it favors the killer now, so the changes will balance it out more so that you don't get stuns AND hits at the same time.

2) Bloodlust is kinda bogus. On the one hand it's a necessity because of maps, but on the other it wouldn't be a necessity if they fixed some looping spots. All pallets, sans 2 god pallets (shack and another by other basement location) should have mindgames. Right now there are too many safe pallets because there is no mindgame. Haddonfield is notorious for this.

3) The unhook change makes it so that killers can't play like total scrubs and still get kills. It's completely unfair that you can be hit down before you can even act. Now the survivor will have if only a moment to avoid the hit, and killers will have to time it properly if they want the guy on the hook.

Killers got fixes and buffs. Now survivors get fixes and buffs. All to make the game better for everyone. Really all they need to do for killers is fix maps to remove loops/god pallets and remove mist as an offering (maybe keep the white ones for tad less/more) and killers will be in a good place.

but they are NEVER GOING TO FIX THE MAPS.

Pallets reduced- check
Looping spots reduced=check
Some vault locations removed=check
Spots where survivors couldn't get grabbed/downed removed=check
Other fixes=check

It's almost as if you've been pulling a Rip Van Winkle routine and have missed all the map fixing things they've done in the last few patches.

@Bbbrian2013 said:
Things were looking so good for the future of the Killer role. We all had our hopes up that finally bhvr was working toward making killers not pathetically weak and bully-able.

2.1.0 was a great patch it was a good first step toward balance we were so close...

But then today's Q&A happened...

We got no good news. Just a bunch of good news for survivors and nerfs to killers. We are back to the old bhvr that just doesn't give two shits about killers enjoying the game.

Nerfing bloodlust before removing safe pallets/God Windows is the dumbest idea bhvr has had in a long while.

You know theyre trying to do their best. Trying to make it fun for both sides.

Usui said:

If you require bloodlust to catch a survivor I don't think the problem is BHVR; it's YOU. git gud

@snozer said:

they removed 1-2 pallets on some maps and vastly increased them on other maps like sheltered woods. they also spread pallets out just far enough for survivors to always be able to reach them and also cover the entire map so there are zero pallet dead zones. that "nerf" was actually a huge buff.

they took away some specific double pallets and made NEW SPAWNS for the removed pallet but kept other double pallets because they are tied to a building and thus not randomly generated.

they took out a window from some of the jungle gyms but left the pallet and the long wall or pallet and the L window. still loopable, still no mind game.

all the infinites are still there, they just baby fixed them with the window blocker, you still get 3 loops from them that can lead into pallet looping, wasting countless amounts of the killers time and then right back in for another 3 loops. the barn can spawn with 2 windows and is still an infinite if it does. they did not fix or remove them

are you really going to include exploitable rocks or bushes that they could dead hard onto to be untouchable in your argument?

i think you need to change your profile pic to a claudette

what other fixes?

Yet another whiny killer that looks for excuses and anything to nitpick about. Hey they removed some stuff lets whine about how they didn't make it impossible for survivors to escape. Why is it that most killers can do just fine when there's changes and they take advantage of them. Wheraa killers like you do nothing but complain.

No al the infinites aren't still there or have the last 2 years completely passed you by? All I see is a whiny killer that is probably not very good and instead of adapting or getting better just complains. There also isn't any double pallets where one is right next to the other. Macmillan Estates is a prime example of how they fixed it.

So they took some pallets out and spread some out in others places, well guess what buttercup you have options in how you chase. I hate to say it but @Lowbei is right. GIT GUD

Oh and btw I play Trapper as my main and I'm not on ehre whining about how unfair it is, I take swf and high ranked players as a challenge. I learn what works for them and what doesn't and that makes me a better players on both sides. The same is true as a survivor, if it works then I know how to counter it as killer.

Have you offered any constructive ideas with pro's and cons on how to fix things or as is more likely done nothing but whine about things? I've at least proposed ideas and solutions to both sides issues with pro's and cons for each idea.

@Tsulan said:

And please, for the love of god. Stop telling us to git gud. Most of us are rank 1 killers and survivors.

That was directed at the person that does nothing but complain, whine and nitpick over every post. You do the same occasionally but you're not rampant about it and have posted ideas for feedback. Why even @RemoveSWF actually posted some good ideas once or twice. Yes that's shocking i know but if he can do it so can the idio% I responded to.

I mean if someone with a Leatherface Avatar known for whiny troll posts can post something constructive that says a lot about that idio% poster.

powerbats said:

@Tsulan said:

And please, for the love of god. Stop telling us to git gud. Most of us are rank 1 killers and survivors.

That was directed at the person that does nothing but complain, whine and nitpick over every post. You do the same occasionally but you're not rampant about it and have posted ideas for feedback. Why even @RemoveSWF actually posted some good ideas once or twice. Yes that's shocking i know but if he can do it so can the idio% I responded to.

I mean if someone with a Leatherface Avatar known for whiny troll posts can post something constructive that says a lot about that idio% poster.

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

Look buddy. I was a killer main and almost completely stopped playing killer. I find survivor incredible easy and powerful. I reached rank 1 without any perks. All playing solo. So please spare me the "survivors are weak" bullshit. Last 10 matches i played solo, i escaped 8 times. I don´t use SB, SC, DS, DH or flashlights. I play mainly with Meg and David.

Killers have been nerfed hard in the last 2 years. While survivors have been nerfbuffed. Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed on one side, it gets buffed on the other. SC got a reduced heal bonus for medkits, but every lvl of it heals the same amount. BT doesn´t protect the rescuer anymore, but he can use it as often as he wants.

Whenever a killer perk got nerfed, it was nerfed for good. No buff to compensate on the other side. So if you think killer is OP, then start playing killer on high ranks.

The upcoming changes will hit killers hard and solo survivors will be as time efficient as SWF teams. 3 minute matches will be the new norm. Oh and killers will have difficulties to rank up with those short matches.

The last survivor nerf was a minor one. Most of the survivors don´t even use SB twice in a chase. Or flashlight save every survivor. But survivors started to review bomb DbD.
So much for the "whiny killers that want even more survivor nerfs"

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

Look buddy. I was a killer main and almost completely stopped playing killer. I find survivor incredible easy and powerful. I reached rank 1 without any perks. All playing solo. So please spare me the "survivors are weak" bullshit. Last 10 matches i played solo, i escaped 8 times. I don´t use SB, SC, DS, DH or flashlights. I play mainly with Meg and David.

Killers have been nerfed hard in the last 2 years. While survivors have been nerfbuffed. Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed on one side, it gets buffed on the other. SC got a reduced heal bonus for medkits, but every lvl of it heals the same amount. BT doesn´t protect the rescuer anymore, but he can use it as often as he wants.

Whenever a killer perk got nerfed, it was nerfed for good. No buff to compensate on the other side. So if you think killer is OP, then start playing killer on high ranks.

The upcoming changes will hit killers hard and solo survivors will be as time efficient as SWF teams. 3 minute matches will be the new norm. Oh and killers will have difficulties to rank up with those short matches.

The last survivor nerf was a minor one. Most of the survivors don´t even use SB twice in a chase. Or flashlight save every survivor. But survivors started to review bomb DbD.
So much for the "whiny killers that want even more survivor nerfs"

Never said survivors are weak, but hands fly when they do anything remotely in survivors favour. Never said Killers OP.

What's with everyone putting words in each other mouths?

Oh so you recognize that survivors are strong but still think it´s a good idea to buff them more.

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

Look buddy. I was a killer main and almost completely stopped playing killer. I find survivor incredible easy and powerful. I reached rank 1 without any perks. All playing solo. So please spare me the "survivors are weak" bullshit. Last 10 matches i played solo, i escaped 8 times. I don´t use SB, SC, DS, DH or flashlights. I play mainly with Meg and David.

Killers have been nerfed hard in the last 2 years. While survivors have been nerfbuffed. Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed on one side, it gets buffed on the other. SC got a reduced heal bonus for medkits, but every lvl of it heals the same amount. BT doesn´t protect the rescuer anymore, but he can use it as often as he wants.

Whenever a killer perk got nerfed, it was nerfed for good. No buff to compensate on the other side. So if you think killer is OP, then start playing killer on high ranks.

The upcoming changes will hit killers hard and solo survivors will be as time efficient as SWF teams. 3 minute matches will be the new norm. Oh and killers will have difficulties to rank up with those short matches.

The last survivor nerf was a minor one. Most of the survivors don´t even use SB twice in a chase. Or flashlight save every survivor. But survivors started to review bomb DbD.
So much for the "whiny killers that want even more survivor nerfs"

Never said survivors are weak, but hands fly when they do anything remotely in survivors favour. Never said Killers OP.

What's with everyone putting words in each other mouths?

Oh so you recognize that survivors are strong but still think it´s a good idea to buff them more.

I think the proposed changes are not game changing nor problematic. It seems pretty fair you can't down a farmed hook instantly and the survivor that was unhooked having 0 control over it.

Also, removing exhaustion on a hook won't do #########. Anyone who's a good survivor knows to bring Dead Hard over Sprint Burst, and besides it's not like by that point exhaustion isn't recovered...

It's literally a simple QoL change for ######### survivors. Why is everyone so against it? They're such small buffs that it won't change #########.

Missed the changes to BL and inbuild Kindred? Those are the changes that will really hurt the killers.
Sprint Burst will be meta again, since survivors can use straight from the hook. Killers won´t be able to defend that hook or survivor. But thats only a minor issue compared to kindred.

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

Look buddy. I was a killer main and almost completely stopped playing killer. I find survivor incredible easy and powerful. I reached rank 1 without any perks. All playing solo. So please spare me the "survivors are weak" bullshit. Last 10 matches i played solo, i escaped 8 times. I don´t use SB, SC, DS, DH or flashlights. I play mainly with Meg and David.

Killers have been nerfed hard in the last 2 years. While survivors have been nerfbuffed. Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed on one side, it gets buffed on the other. SC got a reduced heal bonus for medkits, but every lvl of it heals the same amount. BT doesn´t protect the rescuer anymore, but he can use it as often as he wants.

Whenever a killer perk got nerfed, it was nerfed for good. No buff to compensate on the other side. So if you think killer is OP, then start playing killer on high ranks.

The upcoming changes will hit killers hard and solo survivors will be as time efficient as SWF teams. 3 minute matches will be the new norm. Oh and killers will have difficulties to rank up with those short matches.

The last survivor nerf was a minor one. Most of the survivors don´t even use SB twice in a chase. Or flashlight save every survivor. But survivors started to review bomb DbD.
So much for the "whiny killers that want even more survivor nerfs"

Never said survivors are weak, but hands fly when they do anything remotely in survivors favour. Never said Killers OP.

What's with everyone putting words in each other mouths?

Oh so you recognize that survivors are strong but still think it´s a good idea to buff them more.

I think the proposed changes are not game changing nor problematic. It seems pretty fair you can't down a farmed hook instantly and the survivor that was unhooked having 0 control over it.

Also, removing exhaustion on a hook won't do #########. Anyone who's a good survivor knows to bring Dead Hard over Sprint Burst, and besides it's not like by that point exhaustion isn't recovered...

It's literally a simple QoL change for ######### survivors. Why is everyone so against it? They're such small buffs that it won't change #########.

Missed the changes to BL and inbuild Kindred? Those are the changes that will really hurt the killers.
Sprint Burst will be meta again, since survivors can use straight from the hook. Killers won´t be able to defend that hook or survivor. But thats only a minor issue compared to kindred.

I can't agree with the BL changes. I always thought it was necessary for the killers.

Built-in Kindred seems like a proposed balance change on behalf of solo queuers. As one, it would only be such a minor buff. Trust me. Although it will make the perk useless, so idk

Imagine that you solo and the killer hooks someone. Kindred kicks in and you see every survivor. You decide to stay on the gen, because someone else is closer. You don´t waste time to reach the hook, just to see someone else unhook. You can play more time efficient. If you equip Empathy or Bond, you´ll even see when the killer is chasing someone. You won´t waste any time, because you´ll know exactly where everyone is. You do your gens and get out as fast as possible.

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

Look buddy. I was a killer main and almost completely stopped playing killer. I find survivor incredible easy and powerful. I reached rank 1 without any perks. All playing solo. So please spare me the "survivors are weak" bullshit. Last 10 matches i played solo, i escaped 8 times. I don´t use SB, SC, DS, DH or flashlights. I play mainly with Meg and David.

Killers have been nerfed hard in the last 2 years. While survivors have been nerfbuffed. Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed on one side, it gets buffed on the other. SC got a reduced heal bonus for medkits, but every lvl of it heals the same amount. BT doesn´t protect the rescuer anymore, but he can use it as often as he wants.

Whenever a killer perk got nerfed, it was nerfed for good. No buff to compensate on the other side. So if you think killer is OP, then start playing killer on high ranks.

The upcoming changes will hit killers hard and solo survivors will be as time efficient as SWF teams. 3 minute matches will be the new norm. Oh and killers will have difficulties to rank up with those short matches.

The last survivor nerf was a minor one. Most of the survivors don´t even use SB twice in a chase. Or flashlight save every survivor. But survivors started to review bomb DbD.
So much for the "whiny killers that want even more survivor nerfs"

Never said survivors are weak, but hands fly when they do anything remotely in survivors favour. Never said Killers OP.

What's with everyone putting words in each other mouths?

Oh so you recognize that survivors are strong but still think it´s a good idea to buff them more.

I think the proposed changes are not game changing nor problematic. It seems pretty fair you can't down a farmed hook instantly and the survivor that was unhooked having 0 control over it.

Also, removing exhaustion on a hook won't do #########. Anyone who's a good survivor knows to bring Dead Hard over Sprint Burst, and besides it's not like by that point exhaustion isn't recovered...

It's literally a simple QoL change for ######### survivors. Why is everyone so against it? They're such small buffs that it won't change #########.

Missed the changes to BL and inbuild Kindred? Those are the changes that will really hurt the killers.
Sprint Burst will be meta again, since survivors can use straight from the hook. Killers won´t be able to defend that hook or survivor. But thats only a minor issue compared to kindred.

I can't agree with the BL changes. I always thought it was necessary for the killers.

Built-in Kindred seems like a proposed balance change on behalf of solo queuers. As one, it would only be such a minor buff. Trust me. Although it will make the perk useless, so idk

Imagine that you solo and the killer hooks someone. Kindred kicks in and you see every survivor. You decide to stay on the gen, because someone else is closer. You don´t waste time to reach the hook, just to see someone else unhook. You can play more time efficient. If you equip Empathy or Bond, you´ll even see when the killer is chasing someone. You won´t waste any time, because you´ll know exactly where everyone is. You do your gens and get out as fast as possible.

Get over it at this point

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@Tsulan said:

@Brady said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Bbbrian2013 said:

@Chi said:
They are balancing the game. Balancing the game does not mean survivors only need nerfs and killers only need buffs.

When killers are significantly weaker than the other side that's exactly what it means.

When one side is lower you don't raise the other to become even higher. You level the field.

You bring one side down or keep it where it's at while only touching the other until they're even.

So if Survivors had all the advantages they currently do with the exception of Killers being able to clip through all solid objects Survivors would still need a nerf?

No?...Because clipping through everything would remove the survivors advantage...That'd be OP. Like Nurse.

What about gen rushing?
What about stuns?
What about DS?
SB?
SC?
SWF?

If you’re going to be straight about it, Survs still have an advantage, just not in chases. But how can Survs and Killers be on a level playing field if the balancing is centered around keeping a brokenly OP aspect of the “lesser” side?

You clearly haven't seen a solo queue'd game.

Neither have you.

I only play this solo so that's a failed attempt at whatever the hell your point is

Complaints have to do with SWF, cause obviously it's broken. Solo queue'd games are not.

Don´t worry. With the upcoming nerfs to killers. Solo survivors will be as broken as SWF.

Yup, cause whenever survivors are touched you all start a protesting march. How dare they not nerf survivors more.

Look buddy. I was a killer main and almost completely stopped playing killer. I find survivor incredible easy and powerful. I reached rank 1 without any perks. All playing solo. So please spare me the "survivors are weak" bullshit. Last 10 matches i played solo, i escaped 8 times. I don´t use SB, SC, DS, DH or flashlights. I play mainly with Meg and David.

Killers have been nerfed hard in the last 2 years. While survivors have been nerfbuffed. Whenever a survivor perk gets nerfed on one side, it gets buffed on the other. SC got a reduced heal bonus for medkits, but every lvl of it heals the same amount. BT doesn´t protect the rescuer anymore, but he can use it as often as he wants.

Whenever a killer perk got nerfed, it was nerfed for good. No buff to compensate on the other side. So if you think killer is OP, then start playing killer on high ranks.

The upcoming changes will hit killers hard and solo survivors will be as time efficient as SWF teams. 3 minute matches will be the new norm. Oh and killers will have difficulties to rank up with those short matches.

The last survivor nerf was a minor one. Most of the survivors don´t even use SB twice in a chase. Or flashlight save every survivor. But survivors started to review bomb DbD.
So much for the "whiny killers that want even more survivor nerfs"

Never said survivors are weak, but hands fly when they do anything remotely in survivors favour. Never said Killers OP.

What's with everyone putting words in each other mouths?

Oh so you recognize that survivors are strong but still think it´s a good idea to buff them more.

I think the proposed changes are not game changing nor problematic. It seems pretty fair you can't down a farmed hook instantly and the survivor that was unhooked having 0 control over it.

Also, removing exhaustion on a hook won't do #########. Anyone who's a good survivor knows to bring Dead Hard over Sprint Burst, and besides it's not like by that point exhaustion isn't recovered...

It's literally a simple QoL change for ######### survivors. Why is everyone so against it? They're such small buffs that it won't change #########.

Missed the changes to BL and inbuild Kindred? Those are the changes that will really hurt the killers.
Sprint Burst will be meta again, since survivors can use straight from the hook. Killers won´t be able to defend that hook or survivor. But thats only a minor issue compared to kindred.

I can't agree with the BL changes. I always thought it was necessary for the killers.

Built-in Kindred seems like a proposed balance change on behalf of solo queuers. As one, it would only be such a minor buff. Trust me. Although it will make the perk useless, so idk

Imagine that you solo and the killer hooks someone. Kindred kicks in and you see every survivor. You decide to stay on the gen, because someone else is closer. You don´t waste time to reach the hook, just to see someone else unhook. You can play more time efficient. If you equip Empathy or Bond, you´ll even see when the killer is chasing someone. You won´t waste any time, because you´ll know exactly where everyone is. You do your gens and get out as fast as possible.

Get over it at this point

Maybe you´ll remind me in october. Maybe not.
Anyway, enjoy your que.

@Freudentrauma said:

@Tsulan said:
You seem to be very optimistic regarding the changes. Maybe we´ll have another chat, when every match takes 3 minutes. Since survivors can focus on gens and don´t lose any time by checking the hook if someone else goes.
It will be as simple as the solution to camping: survivors will rush gens.

But this was already possible by coordinated SWF or good playing Solo Surivors in general. The Gen/Chase-Pacing is one of the main issues of the game already. By making Kindred standard the issue becomes more frequent, which forces the devs to find a way to fix it, if they don't want to loose too much of the killer playerbase.
They even talked about it during the Q&A. Problem is that they don't want to increase gen time and want to find a way around it. That was probably the main reason why the speed up pickup time e.g. My personal wish/solution would be that they make 80% of windows and pallets locked at start of the game, so they have to work to gain their map control.

I don´t think the devs are fully aware of what this change will cause. They want to make solo players as strong as SWF. But SWF is simply OP. Survivors will be more efficient than ever. In order to compensate this, devs would have to either nerf survivors hard (won´t happen, because they fear the review bomb) or buff killers hard (never happend and i doubt that they start it now).