How to "ADAPT" against the rise of keys?
With the reworked instaheals, it was only natural that everyone and their mother in law move on to the next best thing. And now we're seeing them rise.
Fighting fire with fire in the form of Moris don't seem to be a good idea, as you're just helping them get the hatch faster.
Running Franklin's Demise, hitting a survivor reduces the charge of an item by x% seems to be a mix bag because as a survivor you don't really use the key anyways and you could have 1% and it'll still be able to open the hatch as its a one time use item.
So instead of whining and asking for nerfs lets discuss what we can do about them with the tools we already have in the game?
Comments
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Franklin's doesn't work plunder
Mori don't work *hatch*
Facecamping Works
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It got no counter that's the main problem.
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Franklin's and tunnelling now 4 man keys well sorry lmao
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Well, for starters, remember the formula to spawn the hatch in:
If there are more generators completed than the amount of survivors remaining, the hatch will spawn in.
Therefore, you don't have to worry about the hatch until that statement above is true, but it's great practice to eliminate survivors who have keys before the hatch spawns in. 🤗😁
Post edited by NMCKE on7 -
They’re most likely getting nerfed soon, but until then you can tunnel the key user. Franklin’s only works if the Survivor doesn’t have Plunderer’s.
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Franklins+Mori
what i use
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The game isn't meant for average 4ks. People need to chill. Survivor players are people too and they need a decent shot at surviving to encourage playing.
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Slug.
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hard tunnel them.
thats what i do when i see someone with a key - obviously they intended to leave my game early anyway, so why not let them leave even earlier?
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How about just lobby dodge or run franklins.
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Neither does mori. You could just scumbag tunnel the survivor who uses it and hope it's not a SwF. Cant win em all though
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Oh boo hoo, so what if a survivor found the hatch and used a key to get out? It's not a 'free escape.'
- They had to do something to cause the hatch to spawn in the first place.
- Complete some number of generators
- Survive longer than anyone else
- They have to use something up.
- The key itself
- An addon for the key
- An offering
Y'all that complain about keys are just acting like entitled little brats whining about how they weren't able to do something they wanted to do because someone else did something to prevent it. It's a game, you aren't going to get your way every single match and if someone prevents you from getting your precious 4 kill then just move on and try again in the next match. I promise you that if you keep trying you'll get a match where you get to murder everyone.
17 - They had to do something to cause the hatch to spawn in the first place.
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I slugged in a match last night... very unhappy survivors. Its effective tho when keys are in play ^^
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I still can't believe that there are people crying about not being able to get their precious 4k every single match.
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Imma just leave this is here.
Jokes aside honestly I haven't changed how I play. I dont see the point in dodging lobbies with keys or SwF. My self esteem is related to how many hooks and kills I get per match. If your super afraid of them getting away make sure you slug the one with the key and get the other one. The games the same and it's time to move onto the next best thing and wait for people stockpile of keys to diminish.
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The only problem with keys is they can be found frequently in boxes around the map.
Should have to bring it in at match start.
Thats not crying or whining. Just my thoughts.
Also, survivors shouldnt expect to survive every match so I guess they should stop whining about moris, iri-heads, prayer beads and instadowns.
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The only time a key "ruined" any of my matches playing killer to get archives done. I was playing fair and evenly hitting and hooking and I slugged all but one character, that character hid at the edge of the map, did a gen, healed and then used a key to escape and left his/her team mates behind. I picked them up and managed to save the other 3 before they bled out.
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Keys are not frequently found in boxes. The lowest tier key that will open the hatch is the purple key. Unless someone is running plunderer the chances of getting anything better than a yellow item is abysmal and even when running plunderer there are so many other things that you can get than the 2 keys in the game that will open the hatch. On top of that most people that are running plunderer aren't running it to get a chance at finding a key and escape through the hatch, they are running it to get reusable items and addons to escape with for future matches. So again, the few times a killer encounters a match where someone either brought in a key or found one are nothing to whine about. You get far more matches where the keys aren't opening a hatch than you do matches where someone opens the hatch with a key. Accept it and move on.
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I think keys are fine, just use franklins if its a big deal. They are harder to see and they'll waste time looking for it instead of working on a gen.
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You forgot also having to find the hatch once all those conditions have been met, which is far easier said than done, especially on certain maps.
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Let's get moris out of the way first, then we can talk about nerfing keys too.
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Now that every other survivor item has been nerfed to basicly uselessness you are suprised surv are running the !only! viable item thats left for them ?
Supriced Pikachu face.jpeg
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You were the first one to post here in such a condescending "bratty" manner. Practice what you preach. No one was asking for a 4k and your're right that killers aren't entitled to it but the flipside is true as well. Survivors aren't entitled to escape. Keys, oftentimes, are used to get multiple people out at the same time. Also, keys are not that rare. Especially if plunderers instinct is used.
To give you an example: A killer is running an endgame build using remember me, blood warden and the like. Endgame happens with 3 survivors still alive with the obsession having been the one sacrificed. Unbeknownst to the killer, one of the survivors had found a key through whatever means. Killer finds a survivor opening an exit gate and as they approach the survivor they taunt and run to the hatch where the other survivors are and they all jump in. Hatch grabs aren't possible anymore so unless the killer had read their mind there was never any chance for it to have been prevented.
The above just being one example. Hatch escapes with a key are incredibly easy and to argue otherwise is akin to stating that moris are fair and balanced. One person dies and one survivor finds the hatch while looking for gens to do then the rest escape with a key. Even easier if they are on coms.
Person with key is tunnelled and tells his friends to get the key. All the other survivors jump in the hatch.
Finding the hatch is not difficult for the vast majority of maps. It doesn't require outplaying the killer. You just run up to the hatch and press the use item button and you're out.
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I guess killing them is out of the question?
In all honesty, if every other survivor ultra rare wasn't basically useless they'd see less use. They're literally the only thing that's worth 7/5K
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Now every viable killer has been nerfed? And basically the same or more tedious to use? And your suprised it's the only killer that's used?
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Key is not good. It is uselss the entire game until collapse. Survivors who plan on making plays during collapse are planning for things to go badly.
Let them bring their keys, their whole team will die all the more easily.
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If someone prevents you from getting your precious free escape just move on. I promise you'll get a match that you survive someday. Probably the next one considering how survivor matches work.
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Mhm. Only viable thing left to use?
ANY of the toolboxes
Purple insta heal
BNP
Keys (obviously)
Super heal medkits
Insta-blind flashlights
(So that's every item, the opposite of the "only viable item" and let's move past items)
Dead Hard for free mistake
Decisive Strike for free invulnerability
Adrenaline for free mistake
Borrowed Time for free mistake
Various gen rush builds for quick escape matches
Balanced Landing for infinites
Lithe for free time waster
Unbreakable for free second chance
WGLF to set the killer back in hardly any time at all
SWF to gain information not meant to be given to you
Hatch for free escape for being immersed
Are you noticing a trend here? Everything given to you is given for the express purpose of giving you a second chance, taking progress away from the killer, and ultimately rewarding you for making mistakes. And even if, after all that, you still make enough mistakes to be the last one alive, you get a free escape out a mechanic we have no way of stoping besides pure luck. But you guys, even still now, get yet another free second chance through keys. There's no counterplay. There's no stopping it. The only way we can even attempt to is by slugging which is "against the rules" so if we were to theoretically play by your bullshit rules, you still win. Killers hardly get second chance perks or get rewarded for when they fail and when they do (Noed) you ######### and moan and weaponize DCs until it's removed. The game is fundamentally weighted towards your side and yet you complain that it should be tilted even more. You outmumber the killer 4 to 1 and still insist that any killer able to beat you in a 1v1 is broken, despite that only being 1/4 of your full power. Then any killers able to adequately deal with all 4 survivors to the point of maybe having a chance at winning is "broken beyond belief" and you DC like children throwing a temper tantrum until you get your way. We saw it with Freddy, Nurse, soon to be Spirit, Legion, and so many other things that it's just laughably pathetic. You are going to kill this game if you continue this way. You will eventually bring the game to a point that getting a single kill is considered a king of all results, and then complain even more because you got killed. At this rate, why don't we just change the killer to hold your hand while you repair generators and walk out the door. Because real soon, they won't even be powerful enough to do that.
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Kill them before enough gens are completed.
3 Survivors need 4 gens finished. I don’t see it as a huge deal.
If the Killer finds the hatch in a 2 v 1 it’s over.
3 Survivors finding the hatch were lucky, and most likely SWF. The amount of times I get left by randoms is too damn high.
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Franklin's doesn't work anymore since Plunderer's highlights objects. They'll just find it again. Or another in a chest, since the find rate is so high with that perk.
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Amen.
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Two words:
Franklin's Demise.
😁
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I don't believe we're asking for a 4K here. Just that it feels terrible to play against because of how swingy and random they make matches.
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HAIYA! Why you say that? ? Don't make assumptions like that. No one's whining her or asking for 4K every match here. I enjoy playing survivor most of the time than I do play killer half the time and I'm at a similar rank for both sides and maxed all my characters on both sides, because unlike some people who moan and ######### I actually play both sides. ?
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mckcpioYpS1rosb88o1_500.gif
We're having an open discussion, most people here have pretty civil attitudes talking about it too. That's why the thread talks about ADAPTING and working with stuff we have already in game not asking bhvr to hand the killers 4k on a platter. Just saying.
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No reason they can't look into both tho. They did a double whamie with the nurse and medkits in one patch. But again like I said. Not asking to nerf them, just how we can adapt or counter them with stuff we already have in game.
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Neither do insta down’s and mori’s. You know what survivor mains do with this info!? They suck it up and keep playing.
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Simple. See the survivor with the key. Close hatch. Camp hatch. Kill survivor. The hatch is a reward for teammates who can’t be bothered to do anything leaving you to do borderline EVERYTHING.
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That’s a fun way to see it.
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Just had the usual SWF crapantics...
Clicky flashlights, pallet runs, teabaggery etc.
Eventually got the toxic leader and Bubba-camped the pink haired twonk on the hook.
Got down to two survivors...and what do you know?...they escaped via a key...the cherry on the cake.
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Mori's are far worse to me than keys will ever be. Keys give all players involved in the match a chance to play the game properly until like one or two generators are left. Then survivors might be able to use it to escape. And that is a big might considering that they still have a chance of getting found and tunneled/camped/slugged while looking for the hatch. Yes it can be strong, but if 3 survivors escape with it, only 1 gen can be left for this. Majority of the time it's a one person escape, and even two people escaping is a draw game. Which is honestly rare, even if it does happen, and they have to be down 2 people, and to 2 gens.
Mori's on the other hand don't give all players a chance to play properly. Find a survivor, down the survivor, proxy camp the survivor until they get rescued, tunnel and delete the survivor. Just that one kill is enough to drastically swing the game to the killers favor to the point of it being unfair, and can happen within the first minute of the game, sometimes sooner depending on the killer. That survivor who got moried de-pips, gets no points, loses their items, add-ons, offerings, and their time. It's also active at the very start of the match, and both versions Ebony, or Ivory completely destroy balance for more than a key ever will.
Sure, fix both, but I give my priority to mori's any day of the week.
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Moris got no counter, they should be removed too. Instadowns got a counter, but it's a secret. Not many survivors know bout it, keep this one between you and me: don't get hit.
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Toolboxes and Medkits are just as viable as before, what are you talking about ?
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I agree with moris having almost no counterplay. But instadowns?!
All instadowns in this game have a kind of counterplay.
Trapper add-on: Watch your step or let someone free you from a trap which isn't possible 80% of the time. Anyways you should watch the floor.
Clown add-on: You can dodge the bottle as you want.
Huntress add-on: Dodge the hatchets.
Ghostface and Michael's stalk: Stay aware of your surroundings and when you are exposed try to hide or run to a pallet.
Michael's Tombstone add-ons (if you consider it an instadown): Get in a locker or don't let him stalk. He takes almost the entire match to stalk to evil within 3 with any of those add-ons.
NOED: Cleanse all totems.
Devour Hope: Destroy the totem or unhook people near to the killer(not recommendable).
Hillbilly: Play smart in chases. Bait him to use his chainsaw to hit a solid object that is not yourself. Same for Leatherface.
Make Your choice: Or unhook the survivor within 32 meters from the killer, or the perk is on cooldown, or you can hide until it stops. The perk even has a bad rank up, being tier 3 worse that tier 1.
Iron Maiden: Pls...
Rancor: You know that the killer has that perk since the first generator is done. Just hide and play really sneaky when all generators are done and the perk has no effect, it actually hurts the killer a lot.
Haunted Grounds: If there is no hex:perk that you can tell from the start of the game, don't cleanse hex totems, if there are two lit up. OR you can cleanse and make sure the killer isn't chasing anyone, just play stealthy until it's end. Now the killer is playing with 3 perks.
Pig's Traps: Remove them. They don't tick down 70% of the game and you have 3 minutes to take them off, so there is no problem.
I think I didn't miss any instadown.
As you can see, there is ALWAYS counterplay to an instadown.
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So keys is a pretty interesting issue right now, but as far as I'm aware, there's a formula to keys, kinda? It used to be you'd have to do a certain amount of gens to open the hatch via key (amount of alive survivors + 1 gen, IDK if it's still the same now), and it didn't seem to be an issue pre endgame collapse. If we were to stick with that specific formula, theoretically the last survivor would need to have at least 2 gens done (assuming no-one did any gens) to open the hatch, but now the hatch spawns everytime it's only 1 survivor left and that's where keys get over powered because it allows a survivor to escape via hatch with a key with no gens done. Maybe they could have it so survivors can't open the hatch after endgame collapse? All I know is that in my opinion Ebony Mori is the worst thing in this game, but the other Moris are fine.
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You mean this game isn't balanced around 4k? This was the whole basis our killers' club was formed! Our motto was "fight until 4k under 3min becomes the norm" !
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I'm sorry but the killer is the strongest when there are the last 3 gens since she can protect them a lot easier. If you have killed 1 person and they have 1 gen left to do you have a 50/50 chance of killing them all but a key makes that % down to single digits + closing the hatch will power the gates ! And as a killer 2 people escaping is almost a sure de-pip . Also about the person being moried loosing all his items and add-ons - We killer can't save your add-ons even when we do a 4k so why should we care about your items ?!?
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This is the most dramatic thing I've ever read I think
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Not as good as beofre that is the whole point now that u see more keys instead of a more variety of items being used.
Keys are not nerfed yet that why
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How about this, you failed pitifully at doing your job as killer, only killing one survivor in the time that it took them to do 4 gens, and you also couldn't find and kill any survivors before they found the hatch. You also allowed the three remaining survivors to meet up at the hatch and escape together. It's an extremely rare scenario, but hey it happened. Also I don't know what killer games you are playing, but even at red ranks I can only kill one survivor and still safety pip in most games due to my own personal play style. Two escaping for me has never ended in a de-pip. Well I did get a 4k and de-pipped as infinite tomb stone Myers lol
The mori situation is extremely common. Even the best people in chases fall eventually. And the Mori screws them out of everything, blood points (Something killer gets in abundance for just breathing during gameplay) pipping system, items, offerings etc. Sure as killer you lose your add-ons, you also get double the blood points on average, and only use add-ons, you don't use an item and add-ons. Also this is exactly why a lot of killer mains and survivor mains are divided so much. Neither cares about the other, yet constantly complain about their side, like there isn't BS on both sides of the spectrum.
I know you don't care, but imagine you loaded into the game, with friends or solo. You spent 10-20 minutes waiting for a lobby to appear, and to get into a game. 5-10 seconds after the match starts you hear the heartbeat, they just happen to see you, a chase happens. Depending on where you are at and your map knowledge you might make it to a pallet before taking a hit, might not. Either way you last let's say a minute, which is actually an okay amount of time. Killer downs you, your hooked, you get off the hook, instantly killed. You got no emblem in anything, no points, and that's that. You wasted 10-20 minutes waiting in a lobby, for about a minute of gameplay. Lost everything you brought in, and gained nothing in return.
At least a key allows the killer to play the game, Mori's just royally screw one survivor, and then make the balance feel like someone DC'd at the beginning.
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Yes, they are. I still see plenty of Medkits and they even weren't nerfed, same with Toolboxes.
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