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Nerf insta heals but not instadowns??
Now i havent played for about 2 months straight but i have seen the nerfs to insta heals and dont get me wrong it was needed but it doesnt make sense how you nerf instaheals
yet keep instadowns in the game, instadowns are extremely cheap I.E. being able to "outplay" someone with a 1hit shouldnt be a thing also its practically a instaheal, i mean think about it before we could use instaheals to tech a insta down back to full HP or just same with a down although now (also ngl i do like the pink syringes new attribute, kinda balances it ngl) but anyways back to it, NOED for example, a instadown perk that needs you to lose the game to use, it seems pretty stupid how one side gets to keep an unbalanced mechanic while the other side loses ut
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NOED counters Adrenaline, which is an end-game instaheal.
And I rarely saw instaheals used against one-hit-down killers, because then the rescuer would get downed. Instead, I saw them used against weak M1 killers who just had all the time they spent in a chase negated, losing all the pressure they might've put on the survivors to slow the game down.
Also, the Styptic Agent now counters instadowns; it didn't before. It could pick someone up, but it couldn't tank an instadown hit.
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true, although noed doesnt seem to be a perk that has any downside to it , considering it relys on you losing, and i understand that it counters adrenaline although not everyone uses adrenaline but the same could be said about not everyone using noed
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also if i might add, adrenaline counts on you winning the game as noed does not
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But Adrenaline still needs a counter. NOED is that counter. If NOED is removed, then Adrenaline would need to go, too. And I've seen plenty of survivors pop the last gen when one with Adrenaline is in the middle of a chase so that they suddenly get up from being downed or sprint away suddenly healthy from being injured, saving their butt when they should've been one second away from being picked up and put on a hook.
I see Adrenaline a lot more than I ever see NOED. I'm more likely to see a lobby with 3 or 4 survivors running Adrenaline than I am to see one killer running NOED.
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Good point about Styptic
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Except they put it on a purple item that has next to no spawn rate in bloodwebs while syringes are now what might as well be a green item and are red.
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The downside to NOED, for what it is worth, is that it can be turned off before it even does anything.
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The killer does no work for NoED. It's a crutch baby perk that's the equivelant of calling an older sibling to do a Mario level for you.
Adrenaline also only heals one state and gives Exhaustion. It doesn't heal dying to healthy.
The speed boost from Adrenaline is also only temporary, compared to the permanent of NoED.
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I didn't say the killer has to work for it. I just said Adrenaline needs a counter, and that's what NOED is. Survivors can stop NOED from ever coming into play by cleansing the dull totems. And if it does come into play, it can be ended by survivors by cleansing the hex totem, so it's not permanent.
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Survivors have to work for Adrenaline and have to go out of their way to stop NoED.
That's not countering.
Adrenaline can also be countered by your logic here: just kill off the survivor before the endgame!
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Anyway, trying to get back on topic, instant-downs are fine if you have to work for them: Myers, Ghostface, Haunted ground, Make Your Choice. Same with Instant Heals.
Instant downs you DON'T have to work for can feel really bad for the game: Hillbilly, Leatherface, NoED, arguably Devour Hope. And this is what the old Instant Heals were probably trying to contend with.
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Killing survivors is the killer's main objective; NOED helps killers do that. By that same logic, survivors can counter NOED by escaping: a killer can't use NOED to kill a survivor if the survivor's already escaped.
Countering NOED gives survivors a second objective (something which a lot of people keep requesting): cleansing totems.
Adrenaline and NOED are end game perks. They both proc in the end game. If the killer sacrifices three survivors and then closes the hatch, both NOED and Adrenaline proc. The survivor didn't earn that Adrenaline, but they still get it.
NOED also serves a third purpose besides countering Adrenaline and creating a second objective: it keeps killers dangerous during the end game. Once the gens are done, killers lose a lot of their power because survivors are no longer stuck on the map, and if they're healthy and anywhere near an exit gate a hit from the killer will just propel them faster to freedom. NOED means that a survivor running in circles in the exit gate clicking their flashlight may be taking a risk (that's how I completed the sacrifice-one-survivor-during-the-EGC challenge :all they had to do was leave, they were at the edge, but they came back because they wanted my attention. oops.).
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5gens work for 1 instant heal state & 5sec sprint, its a good reward for me.
But I agree Andre active on hatch close with no gen done should not happens. Perhaps it should change the requirements as 5 gens done, not the EGC starts.
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Yes, like Rancor
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Killers don't lose until the survivors escape. Survivors don't win until they escape.
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You're saying this like you think both roles can -- or, more importantly, should -- approach equilibrium. That is not how asymmetry works. That isn't and shouldn't be the goal.
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Noed does have a downside, you play the game with 1 less perk until the end and survivors can cleanse all totems making it never even activate.
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The fact that you have to be losing and it might not even go off if the survivors have cleansed the totems or break it before you can hit people is the downside
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NOED is one of the easiest counterable perks in the game
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lOl jUsT dOn'T GeT hIt GiT gUd
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Its still unfair, I literally cleanse every totem i see but its just too lats before the endgame. The fact that you dont know where the totems are is also a problem, basically youre cleansing 5 ruins just in case he has it and its almost impossible for you to find all 5 before the gates are powered which just hides noed more. A nerf i would like to see it making it so either: noed totem is always present even before gates are powered or, the survivor doesnt have to cleanse all totems, maybe 3 or 4.
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I hate cleansing 4 totems and still dying to NOED. I wish that it were more fair, like if I cleanse 3+ totems and NOED still activates, then I don't get exposed while the other remaining survivors immediately go into the dying state when the last gen pops. But unfortunately I doubt the devs will do that.
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Maybe an idea can be to nerf adrenaline and make it like the new insta heals, so you have to wait for that seconds to heal you, and nerf also noed, removing the improvement to the speed of the killer, or something else. Only personal suggestions to continue the discussions (adrenaline I think is a really consistent perk for the endgame, noed however I think is not, tomem can goes down to fast, and also sometimes is really futile, you already probably have lost pip and game before you hit someone and ista down him, and that kill will be futile, moreover that survivor probably get the pip)
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NoED isn't permanent and Survivors can completely get rid of it, causing the Killer to have one less perk. Like, are you serious? Survivors just play the game to get Adreneline. How do they have to work for it?
@8obot1c Or, I dunno, cleanse totems?
I know, I know, cleansing totems is really tough and you need to be really skilled to do it. But trust me, it works.
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Survivors generally have to do generators. Survivors have to stay alive. Survivors have to avoid getting camped and tunnelled.
What does a killer have to do? Close the hatch or have THE SURVIVORS complete the generators. They have to exist and they get NoED.
My biggest complaint about NoED though, is that there is zero warning about the effect until you're hit.
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Another solution is maybe when you start cleansing a totem youll get a notif that noed is active like they do with thrill of the hunt, it gives the killer time bc the survivors that notice it focus on cleansing all totems slowing the game down and it feels more fair bc you at least had the chance to see it coming (it would also be nice if it told you how many totems there were left but maybe thats too much to ask for)
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Each Instadown has counters. Chainsaw killers require you to be out of position. Myers and GF require stalking. NOED requires at least one dull totem. DH requires it's totem to survive. MYC requires you to leave the survivor on the hook. Haunted Grounds requires a survivor to break a totem. Iron Maiden requires people to get in lockers. Rancor has to leave the obsession alive for the duration of the match.
These are things that are not always in the killer's control, meaning they can be avoided and have counterplay.
Instaheals did not have counterplay to them. Survivors could safely heal instantly behind a pallet, or heal a downed survivor to full in seconds. That was game breaking.
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NOED isn't a perk to help in anywhere but midgame. It's either the comeback tool or victory clincher, depending on how it's used. You can destroy all totems. If you're worried about totems, just bring Small game and get all of them yourself. That way you can be certain.
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Okay dead hard can literally turn a 30 sec chase into a 2 minute chase+
None of the instadown perks are even really in the current meta. They arent gonna rework myers, ghostface, and all those perks.
1hit hatchets are the only thing that needs to go.
Maybe if the devs, instead of taking the fun out if the game, just reworked generators some way to make them longer and more exciting then we wouldnt need the fun things out. Medkit addons are still strong
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