Devs, are you still monitoring nurse?
Do you still read our feedbacks of nurse? Or you just consider them salty posts, and move on to other posts like spirits?
Do your team thinks that the nurse is perfectly fine now?
Because i don't see devs commend on any posts about the nurse now.
Please, at least show us you still focus and monitor her statistics and how she performs. I don't want her to become another legion that is ignored over and over again
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If it is like when legion got changed and they say that they will monitor to see if they are doing good or not you might as well forget about it and move forward.
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It just shows that devs are not even taking responsibility for the killers they changed
If majority of the people (mainly survivors) don't have problem with what they did to the killers, then it's fine i guess (like legions.. no response from devs whatsoever since the changes)
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The devs do listen to feedback but reactionary feedback like most of the Nurse posts is never good. It's the exact same feedback from some survivors after DS was changed which means you also think they should have listened to that.
It's never good to make post after post saying the same thing over and over as it's nothing more than a rant and not constructive.
While there are a number of people upset on here those numbers only equate to around 0.001% of the playerbase. This is why they need time to gather and review the actual data which will take more than two weeks.
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The difference is legion is still horrible..and not only did they put ds back in the meta strong as ever, they gutted it's only counter perk for good measure..so you see why this doesnt look to being taken equally under consideration
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Re: Legion changes
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That's highly subjective and I would like to see the data you have that shows Legion is horrible for all the users who play them as otherwise it's just a jaded opinion to fit a narrative.
DS while still strong can be removed from the game entirely and it does it's job both as an anti tunnel perk and a time waster as slugging and chasing another means one other survivor is off gens to pick them up. It's understandable for enduring not to work with DS as making it an anti tunnel perk that did it's job against it too well.
The only issue with DS is at end game which needs looked at.
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It's not subjective when legion is one of their most frequently requested killer for buffs on Q&A, here, twitter, hes not doing so well these days..anyone who looks at the power for 2 seconds can see why..and no ds cannot be removed from the game..ever..noed can be removed, deliverance can be removed..but not ds..the perk is so strong that you have to act as if everyone has it even if only 1 does..and no the change did not warrant enduring getting cut down either as the stun is plenty powerful..the fact is one sides problems seem to coincidentally get their problems fixed faster and without hesitation..while the other gets to wait and feel ignored..hardly a fair concept..and one I for one am not willing to ignore because that is not fair to the ones dealing with it
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Just watch this list i made. You can take conclusion with this.
If some legion players have a good kill ratio, is because they know how to m1 well, or the survivors they faced suck, etc.
Basically there is nothing that can make you say "I'm a good legion player" atm besides having a muscle memory of the distance of your power.
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Legion is not horrible, as a main legion I agree with some changes. It was needed to change the movement speed, you barely could hit a survivor without frenzy. Legion need some love in their add-ons and maybe change that you don't lose all your power for missing a hit, maybe losing 20% of the power, and I understand, the change was to avoid the stab-legion. It was annoying as a survivor hearing stab-stab-stab-stab then hit.
Deep Wound needs some love as well, it's ok that feral frenzy is a non-lethal power but I think the deep wound timer should reduce even if it's not much when you're in-chase or in the killer TR (meaning the deep wound won't be a lethal power but you still will be penalized if you remain without being healed). Of course, to prevent abuses the killer wouldn't see it.
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They listened to DS complaints about the rework and they increased the stun duration.
There were still complaints and now enduring doesnt affect DS anymore.
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Legion is pretty bad now. The main draw originally was their FF speed and vaulting. Vaulting is now so slow that survivors quick vault over the pallet before you can attack. And that's from the side you vault to. Legion can be looped easily while in FF now. That combined with missed attacks kicking you out of your power makes their power very situational. Unless you equip a perk that affects survivors you injure, they don't even heal.
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To my knowledge, the devs never provided data to begin with that suggested base kit Nurse was a problem. If that's the case, then we have no idea what they were basing their decision on.
Also, you have no way of knowing what the total percentage of people complaining actually is. It's very hard to quantify something like that. So, you can't say the number of people complaining is a very minuscule percentage.
And finally, not all of our posts are rants. Some of us took the time to provide the devs with feedback based off our experience as avid Nurse players.
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Why do you need Data to prove that Legion is "horrible" for all Legion players after the changes, otherwise anyone's concerns/complaints are just jaded opinions? Like what. If this isn't the definition of "dismissive" then I don't know what is.
Legion is poorly designed, they were on release and they still are.
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Again that is just taking the users that ask these questions which is mainly from here. What number are those? Are they the same Twitter users on the forum? Without any of the data it's purely subjective.
There is also no data to see how they are performing and one of the devs stated not long ago the kill/ratio hasn't changed mich with them. I understand you don't like the change but that is soley your opinion along with a tiny amount of hours voicing it. Thete will be more of course by the same could be said for those that don't mind or like the change as those who want to complain always shout the loudest.
DS can be removed from the game. You can eat it or slug for 60s. Both ways work and it's a choice which one you choose. You are just seeing what can't be done and ignoring what can be to fit your viewpoint.
Again you are only seeing what you want to see with one sides changes and ignoring all the ones to the other.
What you just stated there was unless you have good muscle memory I.E take the time to learn and be good with them you won't do well then you won't do well. Isn't that how it should be? Should players who aren't willing to learn really be good with a killer?
They do listen to feedback as I said. The Nurse feedback is being taking into consideration but these changes aren't as simple to see flaws in as one perk change as most complaints are about fun and how clunky she feels but that alone is subjective to the player.
The same counter argument applies for what data there is to show she is no longer performing and that most users dont find her fun.
Yes I don't have the data and never claimed too I simply pointed out the argument some of the posters here are using cant be used as a reflection of the whole userbase's thoughts when stating she is garbage now or the players dont find her fun as thats an opinion.
Its all subjective to what we see and why I said they devs are collating data and that takes time.
I never once stated all posts are rants. There is a lot of good constructive feedback from a lot of users which is good for the devs.
So because you personally dislike them then no one can enjoy playing them?
There is a user who posted a few above yours that mains legion who states they are not horrible is thier or my opinion not worth as much as yours?
I'd argue that is what those who state all players can see they are now horrible are the ones doing dismissive and yes a jaded viewpoint as they beleive their opinion is shared by all.
Legion needs some love and is prefer a total rework personally. Always remember a killer who could vault windows and pallets was one of the most asked for by the community over the years. That is a great example of what the community believes would be good doesnt always translate well in game.
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The ceiling is so low, but so low. The power doesn't benefit you in any way whatsoever, it just injures people.
"They need to waste their time mending"
Yeah, but you need to waste your time running after them like a slug + the cooldown and 1 of the survivors doesn't mend because you will chase them and try to m1 them to death.
My point is that you can do with legion what you can do with every other killer. Their power isn't lethal so doesn't help you in chases, so unlike spirit, you have no skill measure on chases. No gen patrol, so unlike demogorgon, spirit, nurse, etc. you don't have skill measure on gen patrol. Can't travel the map with it, no tracking with it if you don't know where someone is, so unlike hag, trapper, plague if you already vomited someone at the start of the match, ghostface because of stealth, etc. you have 0 skill measure on that.
Basically, it's just muscle memory and you don't need to make hard decisions which are the main reason that you can say "i'm good at this specific killer and i love them for that". With legion now you just need to know the distance. Yes, you need that too with nurse, but you also need to know if you use the second blink, waste a charge and be at risk of having a bigger fatigue for nothing; if you should double blink travel the map faster to hit a survivor on the generator or should just walk there and save the blinks to down the survivor(s).
To legion there is nothing more to that, you press that button and have a gut feeling if you can get to that survivor to injure them. If they are already injured, well... 14 seconds for nothing and you have a chance to miss the survivor. If that survivor is healthy, you can fail the hit, get stunned or double hit the guy you have already hitted so you do absolutely nothing and get a penalty. Even if you hit that healthy survivor, they need to mend... or not because you will need to follow them after that and they don't bother to mend.
Even if you leave them, they can be in your terror radius doing a gen and not caring even a little about deep wounds because they won't go down.
This is the sad truth :/
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Probably not. Survivors won and stopped crying, thus it's over.
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That was always the issue with Legion as I have stated many times due to the nature of their power and why I never liked the idea of them whatsoever.
For a killer to basically be a survivor in movement but faster their power was always going to be extremely hard to balance.
It's why I would prefer them to be reworked with a Freddy style makeover as right now I can't see how they become stronger or their power gets lethality without it being unfun to verse as good players rarely miss when in frenzy and can spread the hits well.
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Eh, I would argue the people who think the destruction of Legion was uncalled for are right.
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Their power can be split in two parts in the same button. Like...
By pressing the button, the power is balanced around chase. They run faster and have some mechanics that help them in chase, and then, when they apply deep wounds on a survivor, those stats and mechanics get changed/buff to make chaining hits more easy. This is like a prototype of a idea, it's a base structure to change them basically. Stats and mechanics are up to the devs but i think that they should be a 4.4ms 24 terror radius killer power dependant.
When i started to understand more about dbd i had the same thoughts as you that legion cann't be a balanced killer that easily. The thing about spreading hits and having a single power is very hard to manage. If they want to keep the chainging hits thing they should buff the current status of feral frenzy and add another button that helps only in chase.
Still, it is very hard
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What legion needs is a way to close the chase..he cant
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That's the good thing about an opinion everyone is allowed to have one and yours isn't wrong as it's personal.
All I was saying is someone stating a personal opinion as something the whole playerbase thinks is wrong as there is no way to prove that so it's an assumption brought on by ones personal thoughts that if they don't like it no one can.
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Ok..your clearly not reading or are not very intuitive on how ds or legion works if you wont even acknowledge what I'm saying and merely claiming it's to fit a narrative when it's purely factual..
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I would say that most of the community agrees Legion is in a bad spot.
I agree that most of the Nurse feedback has been kneejerk, however, her map pressure has been destroyed, that much is not an opinion.
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I don't think that what @immortalls96 said is subjective. The list and the motives that i showed you prove the opposite. It is very objective and if there are people still thinking that legion has potential as they are right now are ignorant about the legion's purpose, gameplay and situations and risk-reward relation with their power. No offense intended when i said "ignorant"!
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I don't disagree that most of the community agree that they need something done to make them better but I disagree that most think they are unfun. Fun is afterall subjective and not everyone goes out to kill all 4 every game. I myself get the most enjoyment from engaging chases.
The change to Nurse has lowered her map pressure that's a given but is that loss of map pressure making her as bad as stated. If her map pressure is still greater than most if not all the other (bar Billy) then the main question is how has it affected her ability to kill. How much has this change reduced her lethality which is what the stats are needed for as good players didnt want her gutted just made slightly below what she was.
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The list isn't as objective as you think as most of what you said on the list can apply to most of the other killers powers.
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I think that the matter of fun with legion isn't subjective and let me explain myself.
If you like a killer that has more than 15 punishments in their power for little reward, has a giant cooldown and does nothing for you in chases so you are simply a m1 killer you might as well play clown.
Clown has no gen patrol, no map pressure and no tracking when you don't have a target BUT he has chase potential and is an m1 killer. It is preferable to be a m1 killer with something in chase rather than nothing like legion.
Ofc you can like to spread hits and accomplish absolutely nothing with it but the joy of hitting someone to see the animation or something that you like. But to progress the game on your favor you have nothing. You just stall and m1 to death which can be easily countered in purple and red ranks. Which means that clown should be better.
What makes a killer unique is their power, that's the main reason why you choose one. I, personally, love more their looks than their "power" as it is now.
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Please give me examples.
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- To get information far away.
- Very few powers do this
- Against spreaded survivors.
- Very few powers help with spread out survivors that can't be avoided.
Stun takes them out
Stun takes all killers our of their power.
Can't be sued to pressure gens
Few killers powers can do this which arent avoidable and most have to walk there also.
Is you want more look at your list and apply it to each killers powers.
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But if their are those that enjoy playing them so their opinion does infact differ. You simply stated what you don't find fun.
If someone wants to play Legion and finds it fun running around with them and the challenge of hitting multiple people over and over and can do well with them killing what makes their opinion less valid than yours?
That is why ones persons opinion of fun is always subjective. Not everyone likes to play all killers but that doesn't mean if some dislikes the mechanics of Hag she is not fun for many others.
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The thing is not about these things don't apply to other killers. The thing is that ALL of these things apply to a single killer that gives almost no reward and that is something objectively not fun.
All killers have downsides AKA counterplay but legion doesn't have counterplay, he has overkills with every move that he does related to feral frenzy.
No exhageration, I tried to test if legion was better with or without using the power and guess what... i had a better time killing survivors without the power. You might not believe me and i respect that, but this is my experience with that.
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Yeah, that is what makes a good and fun killer. If you are just hitting people without reason and not killing them, then why DBD and not another game? That is kind of unrealistic imo but it's still a possibility, who knows these days?
But by making sense it doesn't seem an option. Just to make it clear, I respect every opinion, but this seems very strange to go play dbd to simply hit people without caring about downing them.
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That's the thing you could make a similar list for almost all killers with downsides and some will not apply to Legion.
Some m1 killers on will have almost all the same downsides on your list and one thing Legion has that they don't is a guaranteed a hit at times to injure someone let alone the fact they can do it to multiple at once.
Legions hit with power has a purpose. You get close enough you should always injure them and sometimes more survivors while they mend it's not much but they also have to lose you and it's all time off gens.
It does then turn them into the same as most m1 killers but the difference is those killers don't have the advantage of that first hit in the first place.
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I've never heard a single person say playing as or against legion could even be considered anything approaching fun.
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M1 killers have some of the problems stated above but all of them have something that helps them a little in chase, EVEN if the survivor is injured which is the most important part. Also, this means that legion has no uniqueness. He is an m1 killer and nothing more than that.
Some places that aren't loopable can turn loopable when you are using feral frenzy because of how slow your power is walking and vaulting (you can't break pallets in feral frenzy) and you can miss hits and then have a chance to lose the survivor plus the amount of distance that you lose because of fatigue or hitboxes happen, or autoaim happens, or lag happens or you get stunned.
It's the opposite of what people think, he can't do anything to down survivors and injuring them is a pain with a lot of downsides if you do a single mistake that can cost you the game by using the thing that is supposed to make you win the game.
Other killers have the advantage of that first and second hit without all that much penalty.
Either way, we are getting off topic from this discussion.
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But what other downsides does each of those killer have?
One list isnt objective as I said as its only only looking at one aspect. Now comparing them to all the killers each with a list with the same mindset is. Legion can be weak in the current state there is no doubt but they are not the weakest of all killers and that alone says those weaker must have more downsides in comparrisson.
Do you think that then reflects the opinion of the 1 million+ userbase of DBD?
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I don't understand what you mean by "One list isnt objective as I said as its only only looking at one aspect."
All of the items of the list are a downside to their power AND they are not meant to all be fixed, that would make something that i would feel bad to play AS because it owuld be nothing but broken.
The thing is the difference between the upsides and downsides. They should REALLY close the gap between both of them. Maybe be left with 6 or 7 out of all of these idk, it depends on the choice that the devs make to change.
TL;DR: They need to close the gap between the downsides and upsides of their power more than any other killer.
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I was saying making it truly objective about Legion having the most downsides of any killer would be to pit them against every others killers list ?.
I agree they do need some of those downsides changed. I dont have a clue myself how to though but i hope they get some love soon.
I honestly thought Legion was going to be a killer who could change who they were in game originally I loved the idea of a possible power for each char you changed too. Probably could have been a bit too much but it would have been fun.
Anyhoo it is quite off topic you are right but it's been really fun chatting. It's nice to agree and disagree with a civilised conversation. Have a nice rest of your day and gl in the fog.
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That version of legion would be really good yeah. I didnt play dbd when they got released, i started playing in january so i didnt have that feeling. But now that i know dbd and all the killer's lores etc. it would be fun to make them that way. But it isn't good against SWF.
It was good to talk to you too, even tho we didn't get into any conclusion xD
It was fun chatting, have a nice day.
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Lol this posts have turned into legion discussion. (It's fine for me though, legion is a problem killer too)
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no one plays nurse anymore (at least i dont face many anymore) so no one complains about it. what means the devs dont care anymroe aswell about her. same with legion back in the days. same gonna happen with spirit now btw. get rdy.
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LMAO. I never said anything of the sort. I was pointing out how you basically said that if all Legion mains don't agree they are horrible then the opinion of anyone who says they are are jaded and thus their opinion can be, justifiably, ignored.
Also, I never said anything about my opinion of Legion. I have just stated the fact that they are poorly designed. You can not argue this point. BHVR themselves have more or less stated that Lgion is poorly designed and (nearly) impossible to balance. Their power and the way everything works is poor design. It is either broken or on the verge of being broken, one way or the other.
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"Why do you need Data to prove that Legion is "horrible" for all Legion players after the changes"
The above is what you stated. You implied no data is need to say that ALL Legion players think that the changes are horrible which is an assumption.
I never stated someone who disagrees is jaded that was directed towards the person I was replying too as they assumed everyone thinks that Legion is horrible. That itself is a jaded viewpoint as there is no way to categorically say it is the case so it's an assumption as it's what they want to beleive.
I also think Legion was a mistake and one which shows the devs shouldn't always give the community what they ask for. It was afterall one of the most asked for killers who could vault pallets or windows and the problem of such a power is clear to see. That we can agree on.
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I don't know why anyone asks devs questions in titles anymore. Except for peanuts chiming in rarely and randomly, devs don't talk to the community anymore.
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